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 The One
Posts: 7997
    
Location: South Georgia | I'm on the 2nd treatment of omeprazole. Day 11, and he had another "issue" resembling colic last night. He was pawing, thrashing, laying down, getting up, laying down, looking at his side, etc. It took a max dose of Banamine and a full hour before he snapped out of it. It started while he was eating his evening grain (1 scoop of low starch grain).
I can't keep doing this. I'm an anxious mess. I board, so I have limited options. I told them not to give him any grain for a few days. I don't know what else to do. This horse has not been ridden in months (abscess, and then 2 bouts of ulcers), has no stress, has free choice hay and pasture all day, etc. I am giving him MVP 6way, Gastroplex, and I started Forco also this week. I am wondering if the Forco is upsetting his stomach. I know it should do the opposite, but he has had no episodes since this second round of treatment. Day 1 on Forco he was lethargic, Day 2 he did this. Coincidence? I dont know. I dont know what the heck to do with anything.
The mobile equine hospital service can come next week to scope him, so I'm doing that. I can take him off grain, but I worry he will drop weight. What the heck do I do? I hate it seeing him so painful. Alfalfa is not an option in this area. It is $30/bale. I could do alfalfa pellets. Or a senior feed. For now, I'm taking him off grain and will just do alfalfa pellets I think.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-09-17 10:06 AM
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Location: my piece of paradise | Here is my suggestion. I live in coastal Georgia so I feel your pain on the alfalfa situation. I either go to Aiken and get alfalfa or to Larsens in Ocala and get it. Its a pain to travel but worth it. I buy several bales at a time so I don't have to make the trip but every other month. Its $16-17 a bale and $28-30 for the 3 string bales. I think you posted before he is on the mid south feeds? Get him off of it if at all possible. Do the alfalfa pellets if you have no other option. Best feeds for horses with ulcers in our area that I have found is triple crown senior or the Seminole dynasport. Also put on THE Gastro Plus for 60 days and then transition to the GI Ulcer support. You are going to have reoccurring bouts of the "colicy" symptoms until you get him off that feed. Until then you are wasting your money on treatment. It is doable. I have three hard keepers and had reoccurring bouts of ulcers until I switched feeds and incorporated the alfalfa and the THE products. Going on 5 years ulcer free (I have them scoped yearly). I feel for you and understand what you are going through... its no fun. Hope this helps. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| might try alfalfa cubes with a fat source top dressed. I had an ulcer horse years ago that had to live on alfalfa cubes as his "feed" and we just top dressed his fat, vits & mins. I doubt the forco is upsetting his stomach. What are you using to treat for ulcers? I spoke with my vet about this a few weeks ago and there has been studies that show only about 40% of horses given oral ulcer meds actually absorb them. There is an injectable that has 1 study done in Newzealand? That raised the pH in every horse it was given. It is either Wedgewood product or DataLabs. Shot lasts 2 weeks and runs $250?
Good Luck |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | inittowinit - 2018-09-17 8:18 AM Here is my suggestion. I live in coastal Georgia so I feel your pain on the alfalfa situation. I either go to Aiken and get alfalfa or to Larsens in Ocala and get it. Its a pain to travel but worth it. I buy several bales at a time so I don't have to make the trip but every other month. Its $16-17 a bale and $28-30 for the 3 string bales. I think you posted before he is on the mid south feeds? Get him off of it if at all possible. Do the alfalfa pellets if you have no other option. Best feeds for horses with ulcers in our area that I have found is triple crown senior or the Seminole dynasport. Also put on THE Gastro Plus for 60 days and then transition to the GI Ulcer support. You are going to have reoccurring bouts of the "colicy" symptoms until you get him off that feed. Until then you are wasting your money on treatment. It is doable. I have three hard keepers and had reoccurring bouts of ulcers until I switched feeds and incorporated the alfalfa and the THE products. Going on 5 years ulcer free (I have them scoped yearly). I feel for you and understand what you are going through... its no fun. Hope this helps.
Yeah, we are cutting the grain completely. I was thinking of alfalfa pellets so that I could toss in his supplements, but there would be no fat in this combo. The grain certainly causes the attacks. It is always in the evening too, which is odd, since gastric acid is supposed to be strongest in morning, but who the heck knows. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | My major medical coverage is paying for a scoping next week, and the mobile equine hospital is going to COME to ME next week, so we can avoid a stressful ride to the local vet's office. Thank goodness for insurance. They'll even pay for treatment, they say. I'll put him on alfalfa pellets until then, I believe. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| horsegirl - 2018-09-17 8:10 AM My major medical coverage is paying for a scoping next week, and the mobile equine hospital is going to COME to ME next week, so we can avoid a stressful ride to the local vet's office. Thank goodness for insurance. They'll even pay for treatment, they say. I'll put him on alfalfa pellets until then, I believe.
I took all mine off grain several years ago and feed pellets to put supplements in. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | I live in North GA and ive changed my ulcery one to alf and total equine which is an alf based feed. I also do purina outlast with each feeding and Ill give KER RiteTrac during any flare ups or if I haul to a weekend show. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | You are doing the right thing by taking away the feed for a few days, I would keep him off feed untill you get him scoped.. I would not even worry with the supplements untill the scope is done. At this rate of the colic bouts I would be worry hes going to twist a gut.
This is your new horse right? Have you asked his past owner what they fed, I may have missed that somewhere. My colic prone horse that I have can not eat any type of grain at all all he got was a pelleted feed from Bluebonnet and pasture and hay, and he never colic again. When I first got him he would colic at least once a week when I had him on a grain feed took him off for a few weeks and that made a different. He just cant handle anything with grain, since then I have switched all horses to a pellet and this was over 10 years ago. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:25 AM You are doing the right thing by taking away the feed for a few days, I would keep him off feed untill you get him scoped.. I would not even worry with the supplements untill the scope is done. At this rate of the colic bouts I would be worry hes going to twist a gut.
This is your new horse right? Have you asked his past owner what they fed, I may have missed that somewhere. My colic prone horse that I have can not eat any type of grain at all all he got was a pelleted feed from Bluebonnet and pasture and hay, and he never colic again. When I first got him he would colic at least once a week when I had him on a grain feed took him off for a few weeks and that made a different. He just cant handle anything with grain, since then I have switched all horses to a pellet and this was over 10 years ago. I got him end of May, yes. He had an abscess that took 2 months (between building and then treatment after hole opened it) and then the ulcers started. They had him on straight pasture for 4 years. Our pastures cannot sustain that lifestyle however, so we started him on grain and free choice hay and pasture. Apparently, it's not working. LOL He has gained probably 100 or 200 lbs since I got him, and he looks GREAT, but he does NOT feel great.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-09-17 9:45 AM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | horsegirl - 2018-09-17 9:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:25 AM You are doing the right thing by taking away the feed for a few days, I would keep him off feed untill you get him scoped.. I would not even worry with the supplements untill the scope is done. At this rate of the colic bouts I would be worry hes going to twist a gut.
This is your new horse right? Have you asked his past owner what they fed, I may have missed that somewhere. My colic prone horse that I have can not eat any type of grain at all all he got was a pelleted feed from Bluebonnet and pasture and hay, and he never colic again. When I first got him he would colic at least once a week when I had him on a grain feed took him off for a few weeks and that made a different. He just cant handle anything with grain, since then I have switched all horses to a pellet and this was over 10 years ago. I got him end of May, yes. He had an abscess that took 2 months (between building and then treatment after hole opened it) and then the ulcers started. They had him on straight pasture for 4 years. Our pastures cannot sustain that lifestyle however, so we started him on grain and free choice hay and pasture. Apparently, it's not working. LOL He has gained probably 100 or 200 lbs since I got him, and he looks GREAT, but he does NOT feel great.
Well I know that you take super care of your horses and you are doing the best in this case, some horses just dont handle grain. It just dont make no sense to me on how the board fee wont go down if you provide your own feed. The feed they are feeding is just not working for this horse, looks like to me they would want to help and let you feed what would be best for this horse and knock off at 50 a month so you can afford a better feed. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:59 AM horsegirl - 2018-09-17 9:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:25 AM You are doing the right thing by taking away the feed for a few days, I would keep him off feed untill you get him scoped.. I would not even worry with the supplements untill the scope is done. At this rate of the colic bouts I would be worry hes going to twist a gut.
This is your new horse right? Have you asked his past owner what they fed, I may have missed that somewhere. My colic prone horse that I have can not eat any type of grain at all all he got was a pelleted feed from Bluebonnet and pasture and hay, and he never colic again. When I first got him he would colic at least once a week when I had him on a grain feed took him off for a few weeks and that made a different. He just cant handle anything with grain, since then I have switched all horses to a pellet and this was over 10 years ago. I got him end of May, yes. He had an abscess that took 2 months (between building and then treatment after hole opened it) and then the ulcers started. They had him on straight pasture for 4 years. Our pastures cannot sustain that lifestyle however, so we started him on grain and free choice hay and pasture. Apparently, it's not working. LOL He has gained probably 100 or 200 lbs since I got him, and he looks GREAT, but he does NOT feel great.
She did offer to do the alfalfa pellets for me at no cost. That was a relief. Or a senior feed (but it is MidSouth also and I'm not sure it would be beneficial) |
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Are you treating with actual Gastrogard/Ulcergard, or are you using a compounded/generic omeprazole?
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | barrelracingchick16 - 2018-09-17 11:25 AM Are you treating with actual Gastrogard/Ulcergard, or are you using a compounded/generic omeprazole?
Abgard (a generic Omeprazole made by Abler pharmaceuticals) that I have used before with great success, and I know many others who have used it with great success as well. |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | I'm actually a vet, so I'll tell you what I would tell one of my clients.
I am not against generic or compounded omeprazole- I use a lot of it in my patients. HOWEVER... It is most definitely a lesser treatment, meaning it is not going to be as effective for all horses especially if your horse has any moderate to severe ulcers present. Why? There has been many studies that show the ability of omeprazole to be absorbed is substantially increased with a protective coating- Gastrogard/Ulcergard is the only omeprazole on the market that has been proven over and over again to have that special coating that allows it to make its way through the stomach and be absorbed where it needs to be absorbed.
If I have a horse that I truly suspect ulcers I will always recommend Gastrogard/Ulcergard first. The price is the limiting factor- it is expensive and many people cannot spend that kind of money- or don't want to right off the bat. I have no problem with these clients trying a cheaper alternative but always give the warning of "It may not work.."
In your case I would strongly recommend doing the gastroscope, be sure you are actually dealing with ulcers and also what grade of ulcers. Then, I would bite the bullet and run a Gastrogard/Ulcergard treatment through this horse, along with maintaining an ulcer friendly diet.
Also, how is this horse kept (stall, turned out etc). I would maximize this horses turnout time as much as possible. |
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 Expert
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| maybe try a slow feed net also. I know you say that he has free choice but maybe slowing down how much he consumes at one time will help. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | barrelracingchick16 - 2018-09-17 12:05 PM I'm actually a vet, so I'll tell you what I would tell one of my clients. I am not against generic or compounded omeprazole- I use a lot of it in my patients. HOWEVER... It is most definitely a lesser treatment, meaning it is not going to be as effective for all horses especially if your horse has any moderate to severe ulcers present. Why? There has been many studies that show the ability of omeprazole to be absorbed is substantially increased with a protective coating- Gastrogard/Ulcergard is the only omeprazole on the market that has been proven over and over again to have that special coating that allows it to make its way through the stomach and be absorbed where it needs to be absorbed. If I have a horse that I truly suspect ulcers I will always recommend Gastrogard/Ulcergard first. The price is the limiting factor- it is expensive and many people cannot spend that kind of money- or don't want to right off the bat. I have no problem with these clients trying a cheaper alternative but always give the warning of "It may not work.." In your case I would strongly recommend doing the gastroscope, be sure you are actually dealing with ulcers and also what grade of ulcers. Then, I would bite the bullet and run a Gastrogard/Ulcergard treatment through this horse, along with maintaining an ulcer friendly diet. Also, how is this horse kept (stall, turned out etc). I would maximize this horses turnout time as much as possible.
Thank you. My insurance will cover the Gastrogard after they also pay for his scoping. So, I'm certainly not opposed to switching to the brand name. He is on 24/7 turnout that has grass and a roundbale of grass hay. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| FlyingJT - 2018-09-17 11:17 AM maybe try a slow feed net also. I know you say that he has free choice but maybe slowing down how much he consumes at one time will help.
You want stuff in their stomach to soak up the acid. Part of the reason they get ulcers is because there's nothing in their stomach during stressful times, which ups their acid production. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | You've gotten a lot of good advice on here. Keep in mind he may also have hind gut instead of fore gut ulcers. A scope would help you determine that. Assure guard gold is a good supplement I have heard for hind gut ulcers. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | horsegirl - 2018-09-16 12:42 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2018-09-17 12:05 PM I'm actually a vet, so I'll tell you what I would tell one of my clients. I am not against generic or compounded omeprazole- I use a lot of it in my patients. HOWEVER... It is most definitely a lesser treatment, meaning it is not going to be as effective for all horses especially if your horse has any moderate to severe ulcers present. Why? There has been many studies that show the ability of omeprazole to be absorbed is substantially increased with a protective coating- Gastrogard/Ulcergard is the only omeprazole on the market that has been proven over and over again to have that special coating that allows it to make its way through the stomach and be absorbed where it needs to be absorbed. If I have a horse that I truly suspect ulcers I will always recommend Gastrogard/Ulcergard first. The price is the limiting factor- it is expensive and many people cannot spend that kind of money- or don't want to right off the bat. I have no problem with these clients trying a cheaper alternative but always give the warning of "It may not work.." In your case I would strongly recommend doing the gastroscope, be sure you are actually dealing with ulcers and also what grade of ulcers. Then, I would bite the bullet and run a Gastrogard/Ulcergard treatment through this horse, along with maintaining an ulcer friendly diet. Also, how is this horse kept (stall, turned out etc). I would maximize this horses turnout time as much as possible.
Thank you. My insurance will cover the Gastrogard after they also pay for his scoping. So, I'm certainly not opposed to switching to the brand name. He is on 24/7 turnout that has grass and a roundbale of grass hay.
Best advice you have gotten so far.........make sure you are dealing with ulcers...many times we think they have them and once scoped they don't.....
That said have you checked for sand......?
And alfalfa cubes are a great option and also have the fiber you need as well...... |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | CJE - 2018-09-17 2:29 PM horsegirl - 2018-09-16 12:42 PM barrelracingchick16 - 2018-09-17 12:05 PM I'm actually a vet, so I'll tell you what I would tell one of my clients. I am not against generic or compounded omeprazole- I use a lot of it in my patients. HOWEVER... It is most definitely a lesser treatment, meaning it is not going to be as effective for all horses especially if your horse has any moderate to severe ulcers present. Why? There has been many studies that show the ability of omeprazole to be absorbed is substantially increased with a protective coating- Gastrogard/Ulcergard is the only omeprazole on the market that has been proven over and over again to have that special coating that allows it to make its way through the stomach and be absorbed where it needs to be absorbed. If I have a horse that I truly suspect ulcers I will always recommend Gastrogard/Ulcergard first. The price is the limiting factor- it is expensive and many people cannot spend that kind of money- or don't want to right off the bat. I have no problem with these clients trying a cheaper alternative but always give the warning of "It may not work.." In your case I would strongly recommend doing the gastroscope, be sure you are actually dealing with ulcers and also what grade of ulcers. Then, I would bite the bullet and run a Gastrogard/Ulcergard treatment through this horse, along with maintaining an ulcer friendly diet. Also, how is this horse kept (stall, turned out etc). I would maximize this horses turnout time as much as possible. Thank you. My insurance will cover the Gastrogard after they also pay for his scoping. So, I'm certainly not opposed to switching to the brand name. He is on 24/7 turnout that has grass and a roundbale of grass hay. Best advice you have gotten so far.........make sure you are dealing with ulcers...many times we think they have them and once scoped they don't..... That said have you checked for sand......? And alfalfa cubes are a great option and also have the fiber you need as well......
I have done a sand test twice and only a few grains appeared. So, I don't believe that is an issue. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | horsegirl - 2018-09-17 10:03 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:59 AM horsegirl - 2018-09-17 9:41 AM Southtxponygirl - 2018-09-17 10:25 AM You are doing the right thing by taking away the feed for a few days, I would keep him off feed untill you get him scoped.. I would not even worry with the supplements untill the scope is done. At this rate of the colic bouts I would be worry hes going to twist a gut.
This is your new horse right? Have you asked his past owner what they fed, I may have missed that somewhere. My colic prone horse that I have can not eat any type of grain at all all he got was a pelleted feed from Bluebonnet and pasture and hay, and he never colic again. When I first got him he would colic at least once a week when I had him on a grain feed took him off for a few weeks and that made a different. He just cant handle anything with grain, since then I have switched all horses to a pellet and this was over 10 years ago. I got him end of May, yes. He had an abscess that took 2 months (between building and then treatment after hole opened it) and then the ulcers started. They had him on straight pasture for 4 years. Our pastures cannot sustain that lifestyle however, so we started him on grain and free choice hay and pasture. Apparently, it's not working. LOL He has gained probably 100 or 200 lbs since I got him, and he looks GREAT, but he does NOT feel great.
Do the Alfalfa pellets and stay away from the mid south feed untill you get that scope done to see if it is uclers that you are dealing with..Is he use to eating alfalfa pellets? If not dont let them feed to much of it to him at one time, I know you know what you are doing but just had to say it anyway. |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| We have great alfalfa here, but I have had good luck with the Silver Lining LCR for maintenance, after treating with omeprazole. |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Omeprazole |
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Location: in the ozone | Are you SURE it's colic? What about a PSSM attack? The abscesses can be a symptom - then throws the horse's system into negative nitrogen balance & that can cause major symptoms. Those attacks the PSSM2 horses have is very often confused with colic. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | slipperyslope - 2018-09-19 9:05 PM Are you SURE it's colic? What about a PSSM attack? The abscesses can be a symptom - then throws the horse's system into negative nitrogen balance & that can cause major symptoms. Those attacks the PSSM2 horses have is very often confused with colic. I don't think it is colic at all, actually, at least not how we normally view colic as having a formal internal complication. Now, colic as it is defined is just abdominal pain, which he does have occasionally and he makes it very clear. The pain comes after/during an evening grain meal and/or exercise. This leads me to believe that it is ulcers, especially since former owner said he had a history years prior. The vet is coming to do a gastroscopy on the 27th so we can try to figure out just what it is for sure. I researched PSSM2 and his symptoms do not seem to fit. There is no muscle wasting, the only symptom in common is occasional colic-like episodes very shortly after grain meal. I'm not a vet, but I will bring it up to him to see what he thinks.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-09-20 7:46 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: Texas | Possible enterolith? |
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What the heck to give ulcer horse...