Anyone have any experience with summit and how it compares to pentosan. Better, worse, or the same?

I know a couple of people who are using it and swear by it. 

Question?? Do you need a prescription from a vet to buy this?

No you can buy it straight from the website. 

I thought about using it, but I searched the depths of the internet and I saw some threads where people were saying that this is made in someone's house? Can anyone shed some light if that is true or not? Also, is it FDA approved? I couldn't find anything on that. I just want to make sure its safe before I try it.

I just sent them a messsage asking where it was manufactured and if it was FDA approved.

It sure is affordable enough. Makes me want to try it too.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/horse-care/10046789-summit-im-joint-supplement

Here is a 7 page long thread about Summit IM.. This is what I was referencing.

I am curious how this work worked for you?

Just curious if there were any more updates on this? I just learned about Summit.

I am using it. I finished the loading dose and have given the first standard monthly injection. Noticeable difference in the way my horse felt under saddle. 

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What were your underlying issues and what difference did you feel?

so this helps with hocks?

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Bumping up again!

Yes it helps with hocks.  

Bump. Any one else? 

yep yep yep!  I started my first mare on it the first part of Jan and saw excellent results!  I wanted all that I am riding on it and the only way I could afford that was to sell it.  It has been amazing! I now have 4 horses and 1 dog on it and it has been one of the best things I have done!  If you have a specific issue or question on a horse please feel free to msg me on my FB page at Summitjpturnin3ranch.  I want people to try this it is a GREAT product!

Summit is purified Chondroitin 4 Sulfate mixed in sterile water, it is stripped of all sulfate and heparin molecules. It is the size of the molecule that is making it work so well.

Ignorant question. Is Summitt a full on substitute for hock/stifle injections? Do I give it at home or have my vet do it?

https://summitjp.com/faq/?u=Turnin3Ranch

Has anyone ever wondered why there is no human version of these drugs if they help so much for arthritis??? Adequan and legend alone only have FDA in vitro studies showing improvement of cartilage and lubrication. Nothing post use, unless there is new studies out there I'm not aware of??  Now summit, which isn't FDA approved.  What about polyglycan? It's used off label for joints.  I guess my point is if the science is there why not approved for human use??? Ever wonder that??? 

For human trials it would cost millions and millions of dollars to get it approved. Then once approved the manufacturer would have to recoup that money In sales of the product. Instead of poly being 90 a vial it would cost 900.  Sales would be very limited because only a few could afford if. But if you leave it as a " medical device" and it's used off label them dose goes back down to 90. Notice legend is only approved for ONE joint on a horse. But given IV it works for all joints. It's only approved for the carpus. 

I don't know about Adequan type (PSGAG) products for human use but there are intra  articular  forms of Legend type (HA) for human use used by doctors . 

Yes HA because they do joint injections in people. But no HA given IV.  Most horse medications were once for people... Then something went wrong and they had to redo some research to deal with the surplus of the drug. This happened to bute and osphos for example. I don't really believe the whole it'll cost millions for FDA approval in humans. If IM and IV drugs for arthritis were so benefiting for the disease drug manufactures would be all over getting at least one approved. They would try beyond rx NSAIDS for something like celebrex...  Dr Ramey is the one who planted this thought into my head. Only in vitro studies on something then marketing it as doing something has me questioning efficiency.  If I'm questioning that and it's FDA approved... No way would I risk giving something injected into my horse that doesn't require a rx like summit.  Injecting something that doesn't have to follow standards that adequan and legend does and isn't even made in an actual pharmacy gives me the heebie geebies.

No. It isn't FDA approved. And no, you don't need a prescription to buy it. It's sold through multi level marketing.  

After the loading dose how often do you give it? 

What issues has everyone used it for?

I've got an older horse that has some soundness issues, I'm wondering if it would help him. 

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**Non Rep Story with my Horses. I now have all of my performance and my husbands older ranch horse on Summit. Everyone but 1 gets it monthly, my rodeo horse will start getting it 2x monthly (he's been on it for 7-8 months now).

My main horse, who is 13yo (had his legs ran off from the time he ran futurity) is full of arthritis. When I first got him, he was blown up, lots of issues, running 4/5D, refusing the alley and getting hock injections 2x a year. We took him to two different vets and put him on pentosan then adequan. He had his hocks injected before I bought him, so we didn't worry about them. Found out he's also a bleeder. Started to work with him, he ran and stumbled like crazy throughout the pattern.. We were DEAD last at every jackpot we hauled him to. Suddenly in July, he came back from his 40 day break to heal his lungs and he was back to being 1/2D but still pretty inconsistent and hoppy around the barrels.. Last rodeo I took him to he ran up the chutes and that's where I turned him out. I took him off EVERYTHING and just let him be a horse. And with that, at the end of July, he got a wire cut on his front hoof. We got cleared to start rehabbing him in the end of September. October came and he still wasn't 100% sound and it wasn't healing correctly. Pretty inflammed and pretty ugly to say the least LOL My main local vet had mentioned how he started to use Summit on his own horses after hearing his client's success stories, and we decided to give it a try.

We started him on the loading dose the end of Sept/Begin of Oct 2019. After the second dose, he was a completely different horse, running and bucking like he felt great again. His ugly foot practically disappeared and it was back to normal. No inflammation, no tenderness, nothing. After the 3rd dose, he was back to his normal work load getting rode daily on the ranch. After the 4th dose, end of Oct/beginning of Nov 2019 my vet cleared us as SOUND and ready to start hauling if we wanted. However, I gave him another month just to make sure he actually felt 'normal'. This would be his 6th shot by his first "comeback" race in December. He ran in the top 3D just barely loping. No stumbling. No tripping. And he flat WALKED into the alley. He was a completely different horse, the previous owner and I were both shocked.  **I took him off ALL other supplements when he got hurt in July other than his Race Today for his eiph, fyi**

I ran here and there over the winter. He placed repeatedly in the 2D and 3D. He kept walking into the alley. He kept loping a hot set of clean barrels and still placing high up on the 3D or 2D. So, he kept getting one shot of Summit each month. We started to really hit it off before corona got wild in Feb/March since he was fully conditioned and I was ready to let him RUN, and he started hitting the 1/2D. He felt FANTASTIC. We scoped him in March to make sure he wasn't bleeding (needing to go back on lasix/race today, etc etc), and he was clean. We didn't inject any body parts, we let him be! A cheap and an easy pre-season check! I decided to put him on Lifeline+ by stride to help out his lung health and gut health. He is not on anything else but those two products and his ProElite 2lbs of feed daily and pasture.

I understand for the most part that most folks don't like that it's not FDA approved, but I hate to admit to yall, neither is Pentosan. Or any of the equine supplements most will pile into their horses feed daily. I started my husbands ranch gelding on Summit (he has a bone spur on his coffin) and he has had incredible responses to it. Started my newest horse (he is 18yo and still competing) on it just recently, and I have seen the same results with him as I did with my main horse. He feels so much better and he's clocking like he's 9 again. I have ONE horse I didn't see any difference on, but she also doesn't NEED any support as she is only 6 and is basically just a looker in my pasture until she grows a bit more. However she is a reject cutter and had some wear and tear before I got her.

Take this with a grain of salt, take it or leave it. My videos are on Summit's facebook page reviews as well. Its proved itself to me and my horses, did things Adequan never got close to. BUT each horse is different. ;) Even the most proven products (omeprazole) don't work for EVERY single horse.

Pentosan is rx from a vet and compounded in an actual pharmacy... 

My "Pentosan" is PentAussie. Which is not FDA regulated. Seems like a lot of people don't get their pentosan from their vet, rather racehorsemeds which is DEFINITELY not regulated.

So My B. But my argument still stands. Almost ALL feed through's are not FDA regulated, nor are most of the NASC sealed. Yet folks will feed anything and everything without a doubt in their mind making toxic levels of this and that.

Short and sweet version - it is not FDA approved, they have two "studies" with samples sizes of 6 and 8 horses that were funded by the company themselves that says it works and has no side effects. Supposedly there is a third party, double blind study being conducted but so far nobody really knows if it works. It's all hearsay from MLM reps. Adequan is FDA approved and proven to work, a dose of Adequan is only $10 more than Summit.    

ETA: I am NOT one of those that shoves whatever down my horses throats. I grew up with a heavy science background and fully research everything I put into and on my horses. These animals are expensive. Unless it's a last ditch effort, I'll stick with FDA approved and researched. (Especially for just about the same price. Kind of a no brainer.)

Who said pentosan was FDA approved??? It's used off label in horses.... But it is something that is made in a regulated, sterile environment at a pharmacy and needs a script to obtain. If it's not I wouldn't use it.  Race horses meds is sketchy...  Anything injectable should be regulated since it does need to be sterile and I honestly don't consider something injectable a supplement. Someone mixing an injectable substance in their basement is as sketchy as it comes.  

Summit is made in an ISO 4 Cleanroom. Product is run through micron filters and FDA does spot inspections. Vials are tested for sterility by ARL Biopharma. 

I see it as, if you don't want to use it since it's not FDA approved, then don't. But using an unproven, unstudied feed through for every specific base is hypocritical, BUT that's just my opinion ;)  No one is making you try something you don't want to. And if you & your vet don't like it, don't do it. I do think however that people shouldn't diss a product they've NEVER tried. I've used pentosan, adequan and summit. I have seen better results with Summit than adequan AND pentosan. Pentosan seems to be good very minor things in my experience, then adequan or summit. 

I do agree that Summit is ruining itself with the MLM. Reps are spreading misinformation just to make a pretty penny. 

Where is the documentation sharing this information?

Do you or have you used feed throughs?

Yes! I have only seen results with a handful however. I have used smartflex, cosequin, platinum, mvp products, OE, a few off brand products. But I have ONLY seen results with exceed 6 way, formula 1 noni blue label (if fed for longer than 60ish days), cosequin asu, tight joints plus (My FAVORITE feed through joint support) and GLC 5500 max. Cetyl M was a good one I used but it works for some and not others.. and only minor aches, pains and issues.

Edit to add: These are pricey. An injection is WAY cheaper than these run on a month to month basis for even 1 horse, let alone all of my herd. But they also have studies proving they work as they have such high doses (which is needed in order to reach the joint through the gut).

It's not hard to find, there are reps EVERYWHERE! I have 5 within 50 miles and that was in a 2 week span 

Bumping this up. Anymore users with good outcomes that aren't reps? I am seeing so many reps now! Saw they sponsor Lisa Lockhart now too.

I'm not a rep, and I'm just finished the loading dose today on my show mare. I personally feel like she's more comfortable and able to do what I'm asking for her. We've had huge progress in the past month! I'm not sure if training, age and comfort collided but she's been far more quieter the past month and less reactive. Usually she's hot lapping and bucking like a NFR bronc on the line for 15 minutes before every ride. However, this past month I've been able to hop on her fresh without a fight. Only thing that has changed in the last month has been the Summit. 

If anyone has any Summit questions please message me I am more then happy to pass on more education!

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Summit is approximately $30ish per month. You're finding Adequan for $40? 

Yup. It's on Chewy right now for $37. It's a FOUR DOLLAR difference for something that's FDA approved versus not. I also always buy the multidose bottles since they're cheaper. It's not hard to do your own reserach ya'll. Don't be sheep. 

ETA: Screenshots in case ya don't believe me. Also Summit is $33 per dose. 

This one is $44 and change meaning an $11 difference.                          And the multidose - which has 10 doses is $42 per dose. 

Adequan is a drug.  FDA Approved.  Requires script from vet.  

Summit is a supplement.  Does not require FDA approval.  Does not require a script.  

How does this affect efficacy? I would rather not iINJECT my horse with a supplement from a MLM corporation. For a few bucks more I would rather have a FDA approved drug. What happens " if" your horse has a reaction or something..... is summit going to back you up?!?  If it's FDA approved , prescribed by a vet , you have some recourse. 

Believe me if I hadn’t had confidence that it was not going to cause a issue,I wouldn’t have used it.  Vets are using it on their practices also

My 3 vets (2 local, and my main equine vet) are who turned me to use it. Chrondroitin and sterile water won't kill your horse. You may get a lump or an abcess from infection, which can happen with any shot or injection. I agree with being backed up however. Have a plan no matter what you do. It really depends on your insurance, mine will back me up since I got a note from my vet recommending it. But not every company is like that. 

Im not using it and I dont know if I ever will.  But keep in mind Summitt didn't start out as mlm company they was already in business and selling to some well known people.  I had checked into this before it became a mlm. 

The quickest way and cheapest way to get the word out is offering incentives and therefore mlm marketing is getting the word out!  Summit definetly proof that mlm gets the word out! lol

Can I put a bunch of laugh Emojis down??? Its a drug. Its an injectable. I do not considered anything injectable a supplement. But that's just me. Advil doesn't need a script, that must be a supplement too. Mmkay

Bumping this up because my chiro suggested this to me yesterday. Any new info? I've seen a lot of sketchy information about this company. 

My old guy (22) has been on it since May or June and I can tell a huge difference when it's time for a shot. If I'm running him consistently he gets it every 2 weeks. A couple races I was able to time it so he got it on a Wednesday and he ran that weekend. It is amazing the difference. 

I haven't tried it on anything else I've thought about giving it to my 6 year old but I'm not sure he needs it. 

Nothing has changed about it, other than it being an MLM scam now too. To each their own. Injectable glucosamine will give you the same results for around $5 a shot 

I used to swear by summit. I mean I had our dogs, horses all were on it. My veterinarian recommended it and my insurance company said since my vet recommended it, they would cover me. So I kept using it. I used it for a year and a half now, every 2 weeks for my performance horse below. Swore. By it. 

Once all the drama happened online with Summit, I noticed the needles and syinges changed. No big difference, just thought they up'ed the quality of them. 

My horse got hurt from falling on crap ground 4ish weeks ago. He got a seroma and we've been battling it since. Took him into the vet to get checked out. We have ALWAYS used summit for inflammation since it helps so well, and my horse has some issues with gut problems so avoiding NSAIDS was key. My vet starts to administer the 5ml dose into the neck (IM) and he immediately started to act as if something was odd..swishing his tail, shaking his head nonstop. After about 5 minutes, his injection site swelled up and he got stiff in the neck. 

My vet then immediately gave my gelding some oral banamine, and taped an ice bag to his neck on the injection spot. He called the company as hes a rep and supposed to report any 'reactions'. What I learned that day is why I threw all my extra doses away. The company's lab where summit is made, switched. So the mixture may be 'different' but it is still pure chondroitin and water. I will not be using it anymore regardless. Back to adequan and pentosan we go. 

Just my two cents and what I learned, so don't attack me. LOL

I personally will not be giving this to my horse.. MLM company... RED FLAG...  No studies on long term effects..  and you have to keep them on it, once you start it?!?!?!   again, RED FLAG.. more profit for all the folks on the MLM pyramid.. . NOPE NOPE NOPE

TRUMP 2020

An injectable not made in an FDA approved facility where all of the required safety protocols are upheld?

No thanks.

And, an injectable is not a supplement

I have 5 of my own on this I started in January and have loaded all ages from my broodmares all the way down to now my yearling.  I love the product.

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Y'all can hang me, but I've had my gelding on it for a year now. There's a big difference in him. I can feel when he needs another injection, and after I give it, the next day he's back comfortable again. Just my experience. The formulation concentration has been doubled. I'm looking forward to the next batch I receive to see how that works for my guy.

I asked my vet and he pretty well said exactly what I thought....MLM, lack of long term studies = Red flags. 

We use pentosan with great results on my older mare and I guess I feel like if it isn't broke, don't fix it?