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Veteran
Posts: 129
 
| I'm going to rant here, but I'm so tired of seeing people at races veining their horses! Yes - I realize they may need some pain meds but seriously - if they hurt that bad why are they running them? This is not the NFR! I go to races of 180-600 riders and over the last few years, I have seen more and more people injecting iv's into their horses than one can shake a stick at! Yesterday, across the alley I hear this rider say to another 'he's been running like a deadhead' then the next thing you see is someone else drawing up a cocktail. This morning at 6:30 am I hear commotion and two alleys over, a rider is chasing the horse around the stall and I ask my husband if the rider is veining her horse - he looks and sure enough that's what they were doing, and the horse was tired of the 'misses' with the needle. I've been around the block a time or two so I'm not some newbie or novice to the sport - but in my opinion if the horse doesn't have the mind for it, or isn't running like you want, or any other thing people vein for.........perhaps try a new horse! How many riders do you see out there are really qualified to know what drug they need for their horse? And quite honestly - shame on the vets that sell them the drugs! I'm done now - need to go get ready.......everyone will have their own opinion - I didn't post to start anything I just needed to rant for a moment!
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| run,run,run - 2018-10-14 9:31 AM I'm going to rant here, but I'm so tired of seeing people at races veining their horses! Yes - I realize they may need some pain meds but seriously - if they hurt that bad why are they running them? This is not the NFR! I go to races of 180-600 riders and over the last few years, I have seen more and more people injecting iv's into their horses than one can shake a stick at! Yesterday, across the alley I hear this rider say to another 'he's been running like a deadhead' then the next thing you see is someone else drawing up a cocktail. This morning at 6:30 am I hear commotion and two alleys over, a rider is chasing the horse around the stall and I ask my husband if the rider is veining her horse - he looks and sure enough that's what they were doing, and the horse was tired of the 'misses' with the needle. I've been around the block a time or two so I'm not some newbie or novice to the sport - but in my opinion if the horse doesn't have the mind for it, or isn't running like you want, or any other thing people vein for.........perhaps try a new horse! How many riders do you see out there are really qualified to know what drug they need for their horse? And quite honestly - shame on the vets that sell them the drugs! I'm done now - need to go get ready.......everyone will have their own opinion - I didn't post to start anything I just needed to rant for a moment!
They shouldn't be doing it at the NFR either!  | |
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Veteran
Posts: 129
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
  
| I'm going to be one of those IVing one of my horses at shows from here on out. I don't like it either. But I'm not going to subject him to a bunch of 'maybe' help with the bleeding so Lasix it is.
One person told me it made them run faster because they lost weight peeing before they ran. Yeah right. Considering it wipes out their electrolytes, which are essential for full muscle firing, I kinda doubt that idea. It might make them run faster than they have before the Lasix because they couldn't breathe when they ran before, and now they can, but you aren't going to run any faster than the horse could have without bleeding. | |
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 Saint Stacey
| Much of the mainlining is Lasix. Don’t assume it’s pain meds. If you feel the need to know, go ask. Typically the ones doing it in plain sight have nothing to hide. It’s the ones doing it in secrecy behind closed stall curtains at big futurities that are hiding something. | |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| How is it right for you to accuse all people veining their horse for using drugs that are harmful? You are assuming and have absolutely no clue what they are giving. Most of the time it's Lasix. It could be banamine too. No bute, banamine, equioxx or dexamethasone is going to make an unsound horse run. I give my horses bute or previcox, depending on the horse, over the weekend. Previcox for my gelding who is younger and has no issues and bute to my good mare who has some maintenance. If I'm driving 6 hours and they are stalled for 3 days they will get a pain reliever. That is no one's business but mine and my vet. Also I am a dental hygienist hunched over all day and I have to take an ibuprofen every once in a while. Trust me... It helps me get through the day but it doesn't take all the pain away.As far as other drug that are harmful, like snake oil ect..., obviously yes that is absolutely unacceptable but I guarantee those people who use it wouldn't be giving it in broad daylight. | |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | SKM - 2018-10-14 11:50 AM
Much of the mainlining is Lasix. Don’t assume it’s pain meds. If you feel the need to know, go ask. Typically the ones doing it in plain sight have nothing to hide. It’s the ones doing it in secrecy behind closed stall curtains at big futurities that are hiding something.
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | bbennington - 2018-10-14 11:26 AM
A lot of times they are injecting banamine into the vein.
And have to add that I am so sick and tired of it.. It has gotten so bad and the reason why I have cut way back on shows in the last 5 years.
You're going to let someone injecting banamine affect your life and how often you race?
While I don't agree with using performance enhancing substances to hop a horse, a shot of banamine or bute isn't going to make a horse any better than he's capable of being. They may have a relationship with a vet who understands their horse and prescribed it. Or, they may be doing it completely on their own accord.
If you ever read the drug rules for AQHA just as an example, they DO allow for the use of NSAIDs, given at the proper dose, and given at the appropriate time frame. So it's not as if someone is committing a crime for giving a shot of bute or banamine at a barrel race. Not to mention, like others have said, a lot of what you are seeing injected is lasix as well. But anyone who's giving IV injections should be proficient at it, and it's tacky when someone just throws needles and syringes away without discarding of the properly.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok |  | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | When I went to the bigger barrel races I would see a few people main line their horses, I didnt worry myself over what others were doing, most of the ones I saw doing it was with lasix {bleeders} for the op just in case she didnt know what lasix was for} but I'm pretty sure there was some pain maintenance going on to, no biggie, I think the ones doing it was for the good of their horses to make them more comfortable.. Now if illegal they sure would not be sticking their horses in front of everybody to watch. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I have a friend who rodeos and goes to big barrel races and she says the ones doing big illegal stuff don’t care if you see what they are doing. They told her everyone does it. She just asked them to please dispose their stuff in the trash, she didn’t want her grandkid to accidentally step on their needles. This is at the big barrel races, the rodeos she said were different. The illegal stuff they would try to hide. It’s everywhere, you just have to do what you think is right and not worry about the other people. Ultimately, the horse pays, unfortunately. | |
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| Honestly its posts like this that make people try all the herbal meds, and some probably do more harm then good. I had to use lasix on a bleeder in the past and I hated the looks I got, so I probably started to look sketchy after awhile, but I would rather run on lasix because it is proven then run on some unproven method. I've also given my horse legend the odd time or two, plus most drugs you can give orally, so illegal drugs are used both ways. I wouldn't be so quick to judge, and the ones that are doing it... well hopefully it will bite them in the butt one day. I just do my own thing and try not to worry about anyone else. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-14 11:34 AM
How is it right for you to accuse all people veining their horse for using drugs that are harmful? You are assuming and have absolutely no clue what they are giving. Most of the time it's Lasix. It could be banamine too. No bute, banamine, equioxx or dexamethasone is going to make an unsound horse run. I give my horses bute or previcox, depending on the horse, over the weekend. Previcox for my gelding who is younger and has no issues and bute to my good mare who has some maintenance. If I'm driving 6 hours and they are stalled for 3 days they will get a pain reliever. That is no one's business but mine and my vet. Also I am a dental hygienist hunched over all day and I have to take an ibuprofen every once in a while. Trust me... It helps me get through the day but it doesn't take all the pain away.As far as other drug that are harmful, like snake oil ect..., obviously yes that is absolutely unacceptable but I guarantee those people who use it wouldn't be giving it in broad daylight.
Agreed. I appreciate a couple ibuprofen after a long day. Why wouldn't I give my horse (who I put there, he didn't ask to be there) some relief after stalling them in a 12x12 stall on concrete for 3 days straight? Rude to assume that everyone injecting something is doing something "bad". | |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24954
Location: WYOMING | Perfect example of a person making assumptions, not knowing the whole story and not minding their own business. Plus just lumped every NFR barrel racer into one drug using group.
Love it. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Odd person out here, I believe what the original poster is saying - not about legal drugs, they said that. They aren't talking about lasik, etc.
And they are old enough and have worked at enough vet's offices to know the difference. (I know this person) between a legally used drug or not.
Whether people like to admit it or not, there is abuse of drugs in the barrel horse world. Also the race horse world. Thus, the reason most racing venues have gone to hair testing.
And, as usual, if you don't like it, stay home, will be most of the answers on here.
But, putting your head in the sand and pretending it is all legal, will only get your eyes full of sand.
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Guess I just don't look around enough when I'm at rodeos and barrel races...
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Where are these barrel races that have girls around every corner injecting horses ?? I’ve been to a lot of Barrel races/rodeos and have been back on the back side where a lot of illegal stuff would normally take place but I very rarely see it.
I’m for Banamine and Lasix. They’re included on a lengthy list of approved drugs by he AQHA And WPRA.Tossing needles down is ignorant and makes everyone look bad, but it gets done with regular trash too.
I highly doubt if they were giving something illegal they’d be doing it in front of everyone.
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Saint Stacey
| There’s a lot of steroid use at the race track and illegal cocktails. Why? Because three races a month is a lot. 13-17 races in a year is a lot. The illegal Redbull and other mixes used by many match racers ruins (usually killing) a horse within 5-7 outs.
With as many times as a barrel horse runs in a month, they would be dropping over like flies if they were on the stuff that it sounds like the OP thinks they are on. Granted some barrel racers are way too free with things like Ventipulmin. But if a barrel horse was constantly given synthetic adrenaline, frog juice, Redbull and similar other track recipes...they’d probably be dead in a week because of how often they run. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | run,run,run - 2018-10-14 9:31 AM I'm going to rant here, but I'm so tired of seeing people at races veining their horses! Yes - I realize they may need some pain meds but seriously - if they hurt that bad why are they running them? This is not the NFR! I go to races of 180-600 riders and over the last few years, I have seen more and more people injecting iv's into their horses than one can shake a stick at! Yesterday, across the alley I hear this rider say to another 'he's been running like a deadhead' then the next thing you see is someone else drawing up a cocktail. This morning at 6:30 am I hear commotion and two alleys over, a rider is chasing the horse around the stall and I ask my husband if the rider is veining her horse - he looks and sure enough that's what they were doing, and the horse was tired of the 'misses' with the needle. I've been around the block a time or two so I'm not some newbie or novice to the sport - but in my opinion if the horse doesn't have the mind for it, or isn't running like you want, or any other thing people vein for.........perhaps try a new horse! How many riders do you see out there are really qualified to know what drug they need for their horse? And quite honestly - shame on the vets that sell them the drugs! I'm done now - need to go get ready.......everyone will have their own opinion - I didn't post to start anything I just needed to rant for a moment!
Curious: How do you know WHAT they are injecting the horse with? How do you know it's not (for example) Lasix? | |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | SKM - 2018-10-15 10:28 AM There’s a lot of steroid use at the race track and illegal cocktails. Why? Because three races a month is a lot. 13-17 races in a year is a lot. The illegal Redbull and other mixes used by many match racers ruins (usually killing) a horse within 5-7 outs. With as many times as a barrel horse runs in a month, they would be dropping over like flies if they were on the stuff that it sounds like the OP thinks they are on. Granted some barrel racers are way too free with things like Ventipulmin. But if a barrel horse was constantly given synthetic adrenaline, frog juice, Redbull and similar other track recipes...they’d probably be dead in a week because of how often they run.
Thank you! | |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | 3canstorun - 2018-10-14 10:25 AM Odd person out here, I believe what the original poster is saying - not about legal drugs, they said that. They aren't talking about lasik, etc.
And they are old enough and have worked at enough vet's offices to know the difference. (I know this person) between a legally used drug or not.
Whether people like to admit it or not, there is abuse of drugs in the barrel horse world. Also the race horse world. Thus, the reason most racing venues have gone to hair testing.
And, as usual, if you don't like it, stay home, will be most of the answers on here.
But, putting your head in the sand and pretending it is all legal, will only get your eyes full of sand.
Truth........... | |
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Veteran
Posts: 203
Location: kansas | This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story.... | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1520
Location: Illinois | Meep.Meep - 2018-10-16 1:13 PM
RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story....
I think the poster was stating that the reason she was giving the drugs wasn't related to the barrel race, but she was in attendance still? At least that's how I read it.
If you're standing in a stall with a needle stuck in their neck, whoever sees it is just going to assume she's giving something that is relevant to he running. I'm one of those people who you can find at a race with a needle, my horse is a bleeder and requires lasix. Or banamine at times, which is perfectly fine to give. Many of us stall our horses at weekend races and many of those horses aren't used to being stalled for days. You can bet I'm going to give mine a little banamine, bute, previcox, or whatever to keep them comfortable. If we all had to stand on concrete in a closet for 48 hours we'd do some sketchy things for an advil, why shouldn't we treat our horses the same. I don't pay attention to what people give their horses, that is their business. Just because you wouldn't give it to your horse or you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Yes there are things that I think people are insane for trying, but it's their horse, their business. I've known people to give cocaine and all everyone is talking about in my area right now is cobra venom for whatever reason. I don't choose to ask about it, but that's not saying I don't care. That's just me saying it's not my business. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 10:55 AM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
If I had to give that much banamine, twice a day for an extended period of time, I would use the paste. Those poor sore veins!!! That would make a horse hate ya real fast.. lol | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-10-16 1:57 PM
Meep.Meep - 2018-10-16 1:13 PM
RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story....
I think the poster was stating that the reason she was giving the drugs wasn't related to the barrel race, but she was in attendance still? At least that's how I read it.
If you're standing in a stall with a needle stuck in their neck, whoever sees it is just going to assume she's giving something that is relevant to he running. I'm one of those people who you can find at a race with a needle, my horse is a bleeder and requires lasix. Or banamine at times, which is perfectly fine to give. Many of us stall our horses at weekend races and many of those horses aren't used to being stalled for days. You can bet I'm going to give mine a little banamine, bute, previcox, or whatever to keep them comfortable. If we all had to stand on concrete in a closet for 48 hours we'd do some sketchy things for an advil, why shouldn't we treat our horses the same. I don't pay attention to what people give their horses, that is their business. Just because you wouldn't give it to your horse or you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Yes there are things that I think people are insane for trying, but it's their horse, their business. I've known people to give cocaine and all everyone is talking about in my area right now is cobra venom for whatever reason. I don't choose to ask about it, but that's not saying I don't care. That's just me saying it's not my business.
I hope it wasn't at a race, going to a barrel race while treating such a condition would be really irresponsible IMO
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| stayceem - 2018-10-16 3:26 PM
My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race.
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Expert
Posts: 1520
Location: Illinois | stayceem - 2018-10-16 3:26 PM
My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race.
I agree with you. But I'm a fairly heavy user of advil myself, so I'm kind of opposite on the human side lol. I give mine equioxx when I haul because of his navicular. When he's stalled or tied to the trailer all day I walk him as close to every hour as I can all day long. In his daily life he's fully sound and fine, but it's the inability for him to move around when he needs to that I give it to him for added peace of mind to keep him comfortable. When I do that I have to give him omeprazole every day that I give it because for mine at least one day of equioxx (previcox), bute, or banamine in his gut creates a full on ulcer war every time. So then I'm giving mine lasix, 2 kinds of paste, and a pill each day to run in the 3/4D. Imagine how that would look to someone who didn't know what I was giving & why, they just assume my horse is probably crippled. None if it makes him run any faster though, which would be nice in a perfect world.
I've sat out a few this year when he's had to be stalled due to weather and has come up lame. I don't ever use it to cover up something so I can go run. But I do know a few who give their horses bute because they don't want to pay for injections. For me a hock injection is cheaper than the amount of bute I'd need for a year. One girl locally isn't even a teen yet and her horse is either 13 or 14 (can't remember)and it lives on 4g of bute a day just to stay sound. All their horses have ended up that way and none last longer than 2 years with them. This one is incredibly nice and it's sad that she's ended up this way. I hate those types of people more than anyone else giving drugs & the famous cocktails. I also know people who run their horses on 6cc of ace because they're so blown up, but they don't stop. My horses for sure wouldn't even be standing at that rate. Those are also people I'm not a fan of. Mainly I just don't like people who see someone with a needle and automatically assume we're giving them some kind of voodoo magic potion | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| 3canstorun - 2018-10-15 9:25 AM
Odd person out here, I believe what the original poster is saying - not about legal drugs, they said that. They aren't talking about lasik, etc.
And they are old enough and have worked at enough vet's offices to know the difference. (I know this person) between a legally used drug or not.
Whether people like to admit it or not, there is abuse of drugs in the barrel horse world. Also the race horse world. Thus, the reason most racing venues have gone to hair testing.
And, as usual, if you don't like it, stay home, will be most of the answers on here.
But, putting your head in the sand and pretending it is all legal, will only get your eyes full of sand.
Did I miss the part where they said they were talking only about illegal drugs? All I saw was the mention of "veining", which could mean injecting anything..
I also believe what another poster was getting at; do we really think if these horses are being drugged heavily at every race or rodeo, that they're going to be able to get away with it long enough to be successful and not have lasting effects? We see broken down racehorses that had their 15 minutes of fame all the time, but not nearly as many barrel horses. Yes, there are some. I'm NOT saying there aren't any, but if you look at most of the top people, their horses are still going strong years later. I don't think illegal drug use is as prevalent as the OP thinks. | |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I’m on both sides of this issue.
I was at a big barrel race that also had AQHA barrels. The people stalled next to us came for those classes. They left their 2- 30cc syringes per horse with needles capped but attached on the ground in their pile of horses **** in FRONT of their stalls! Except one stall, they were so kind to push it in front of my tack stall. It was pretty frustrating to see the lack of responsibility to just leave that for someone else to deal with.
On the other hand, I was finishing IV antibiotics 2x a day at the last race. I don’t like how it looks bc it was a large dose. I get up early to give it before there’s a ton of people out and in the evening try to be as discreet as possible.
I’ve given all kinds of meds IV as that horse needed. If they need it AND you’ve done your homework or been instructed by your vet do your thing and clean up your mess. I eat ibuprofen like candy at times especially if I can’t get to the chiro in time. Should i probably get my core strength up to par so a I didn’t battle back issues as much- yep. Is it gonna stop me from going to a race in the mean time- nope.
That’s how I feel about the drugs- make sure you aren’t band aiding something that you haven’t checked out or addressed. Learn how to hit a vein properly and be discreet. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| r_beau - 2018-10-15 11:38 AM run,run,run - 2018-10-14 9:31 AM I'm going to rant here, but I'm so tired of seeing people at races veining their horses! Yes - I realize they may need some pain meds but seriously - if they hurt that bad why are they running them? This is not the NFR! I go to races of 180-600 riders and over the last few years, I have seen more and more people injecting iv's into their horses than one can shake a stick at! Yesterday, across the alley I hear this rider say to another 'he's been running like a deadhead' then the next thing you see is someone else drawing up a cocktail. This morning at 6:30 am I hear commotion and two alleys over, a rider is chasing the horse around the stall and I ask my husband if the rider is veining her horse - he looks and sure enough that's what they were doing, and the horse was tired of the 'misses' with the needle. I've been around the block a time or two so I'm not some newbie or novice to the sport - but in my opinion if the horse doesn't have the mind for it, or isn't running like you want, or any other thing people vein for.........perhaps try a new horse! How many riders do you see out there are really qualified to know what drug they need for their horse? And quite honestly - shame on the vets that sell them the drugs! I'm done now - need to go get ready.......everyone will have their own opinion - I didn't post to start anything I just needed to rant for a moment! Curious: How do you know WHAT they are injecting the horse with? How do you know it's not (for example) Lasix?
when i was at track in 60 70 it was retlin and what those pills for heart attacks the some would blow weed up the nose
only thing i gave at shows was banamine as i take tynenol i know they get stall sore. at the shows as all mine stayed in pasture
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 324
| I can see both sides of the argument here...
On one hand, I have known a few barrel racers who Ace, Banamine, or both before a run just because "he won't fire if he thinks he might hurt anywhere." which I disagree with on a fundamental level.
On the other hand, drugs like Lasix are essential to bleeders, and bleeders are a lot more common than I ever previously thought. I can also justify giving some bute/banamine when they have to be stalled 3 days on concrete.
Everything is completely circumstantial so I mind my own business because people are going to do what people are going to do, so there is no use getting bent out of shape about the actions of others that do not affect you in any way. If it isn't my horse, or my vet bill, it isn't my business.
**Side note: unless you're running at a major, big money-added race, it's highly unlikely that anyone would IV illegal, performance-enhancing drugs... Most people are reasonable enough to realize that it isn't worth potentially crippling or killing your horse for a $200 check... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Oh for heaven sakes alive
If they are giving a jug of electrolytes with some DMSO in a a giant 60 cc syringe,bute, dex, banamine, lasix/iodine, Kentucky red, or whatever their cocktail of choice it truly isn't gonna make them a whole D faster. It will however give a wore out horse with achy joints that has hauled long miles and is standing on concrete 3-4 days some relieve similar to you taking an electrolyte gel and some Tylenol though. It is tacky and irresponsible to dispose of syringes anywhere but a sharps container, which most arenas now have at the end of shed rows/breeze ways. If they can't give IV shots then they need to get NSAID powder/paste and give their lasix in the muscle.
Be more worried about drug abuse that is going on orally and weeks prior to an actual show such as inhaled bronchial dilators, equipoise, and fed through clenbuterol/abuterol. These are drugs that will actually make horses run significantly faster, more prone to injury due to the fact they are using themselves so intensely, and something that a barrel racer who attends open shows could actually get their hands on.
I legit thought this post was gonna be about recreational mary jane use while camping out. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350
| the cheating is OUT OF CONTROL! There are no rules folks! | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Kinda OT, but all this complaining people do about crap they no nothing about is NOT good for the industry. There will be people who cheat/try to cheat no matter where you are in life.
we don't need any mroe regulations or costs to the races we already attend. If you are worried ask!
I have given lasix, b12, ventipulm, previcox, and banamine (not of which are illegal) to keep my horse healthy and sound on the long rodeo road. 
Edited by clover girl 2018-10-19 8:16 AM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| lucky2 - 2018-10-18 8:58 PM
the cheating is OUT OF CONTROL! There are no rules folks!
Just what we need.... More rules... More rules for the 99% of people that don't cheat and the 1% that do will just keep finding new ways to continue cheating. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| **Cowgirl Up** - 2018-10-18 3:05 PM
I can see both sides of the argument here...
On one hand, I have known a few barrel racers who Ace, Banamine, or both before a run just because "he won't fire if he thinks he might hurt anywhere." which I disagree with on a fundamental level.
On the other hand, drugs like Lasix are essential to bleeders, and bleeders are a lot more common than I ever previously thought. I can also justify giving some bute/banamine when they have to be stalled 3 days on concrete.
Everything is completely circumstantial so I mind my own business because people are going to do what people are going to do, so there is no use getting bent out of shape about the actions of others that do not affect you in any way. If it isn't my horse, or my vet bill, it isn't my business.
**Side note: unless you're running at a major, big money-added race, it's highly unlikely that anyone would IV illegal, performance-enhancing drugs... Most people are reasonable enough to realize that it isn't worth potentially crippling or killing your horse for a $200 check...
You would think so but the medium size fish in a small pond are the ones I see shooting in their horses the most often. They’ll tell you “Well, this what so and so does and she/he is a big time trainer/rider.” They are sure they are one illegal drug away from the big win because they run a name brand horse and are such good a rider themselves so the difference MUST be drugs. One reason there are so many blown up barrel horses. | |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I've not read all the comments.....
But the facts are the same no matter which side you are on.....there are drugs in barrel racing. Some well founded needed medications, some not so needed meds but not necessarily illegal, and some really nasty stuff.
You cannot stop it, you cannot control it, so you have to make a decision for yourself.
I was stopped at a race a few years ago and asked how much it cost me to drug my horse, and to this day I still haven't a clue what drugs they were referring to. He just happened to be winning often at the time.
So you just go and you run and enjoy what you have into it. If you truly wanted a system that would control or prevent drugs in barrel racing, then we all would have issues affording the new entry fees producers would have to charge to cover the cost of drug testing and enforcement. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Let those individuals worry about themselves. It’s not affecting you or your horses. | |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort.
Edited by rachellyn80 2018-10-23 12:08 PM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM
I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort.
What do you use the Clenbuterol for? I see this one mentioned a lot, but know nothing about it. | |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Sounds like some people need to have some educational discussions with their vets and not assume that an IV shot means a bad thing.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, if you think the key to winning comes from a needle, you're wrong. More than likely, you're just getting outrun by people who know what these horses need and how to keep them going.
Carry on with bringing false negative light to our sport..... great job....
Edited for grammar
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2018-10-23 2:38 PM
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| I read the rules, follow the rules, and mind my own business. I, as well as others, have the option of staying home if don't like what I see.  | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| barrelracinbroke - 2018-10-23 2:37 PM
Sounds like some people need to have some educational discussions with their vets and not assume that an IV shot means a bad thing.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, if you think the key to winning comes from a needle, you're wrong. More than likely, you're just getting outrun by people who know what these horses need and how to keep them going.
Carry on with bringing false negative light to our sport..... great job....Edited for grammar
Lots of times you don’t see it- you hear them talking about it in the stands or waiting in the consession line. And it is hardly ever at a rodeo, but the middle to large barrel races/futurities. And it’s usually not the big dogs but the middle or lower end who think that needle can make them a 1D contender. It’s out there, always has been and always will be. You just have to do what you think is right. I am not talking about Lasix or bute/banamine. I am talking about the “cocktails” some idiots use. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM
I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort.
I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication. | |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
In a perfect world....all things being equal....and if our horses could talk, then yes that would be a fantastic plan.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch. | |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| What about drugs like Reserpine? There are some big trainers that have advocated for it and admit use. | |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| GLP - 2018-10-23 2:06 PM barrelracinbroke - 2018-10-23 2:37 PM Sounds like some people need to have some educational discussions with their vets and not assume that an IV shot means a bad thing.
Sorry to burst your bubble but, if you think the key to winning comes from a needle, you're wrong. More than likely, you're just getting outrun by people who know what these horses need and how to keep them going.
Carry on with bringing false negative light to our sport..... great job....
Edited for grammar Lots of times you don’t see it- you hear them talking about it in the stands or waiting in the consession line. And it is hardly ever at a rodeo, but the middle to large barrel races/futurities. And it’s usually not the big dogs but the middle or lower end who think that needle can make them a 1D contender. It’s out there, always has been and always will be. You just have to do what you think is right. I am not talking about Lasix or bute/banamine. I am talking about the “cocktails” some idiots use.
I am by no means saying it isn't out there. I've played in this game for many many years, from futurities to pro rodeos and I don't disagree with you. I've seen some things that I completely do not agree with but, they're not overly common (I actually feel like it was worse in the 90s).
Yet, the original post had quite an assumptive tone that "any" drugs given IV are bad things. That's just not the case. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Whiteboy - 2018-10-23 5:11 PM
What about drugs like Reserpine? There are some big trainers that have advocated for it and admit use.
Some people need Xanax
Some horses need it as well
Also I want to be clear the types of Clenbuterol or alberterol that barrel racers are using I have absolutely no problem with...
The south of the border race track water "aka compounded clenbuterol" is what I was referring to....
Resperine, Cholorpromazine, Guanzabenz, and Ace (okay so maybe not this one but basically same as a glass of wine) are all forms of human meds that are actually the most prescribed drug with any health care provider these days. We put performance horses under tremendous pressure, some hold up and some need help. Just like people some hold up and some like me need wine. Like when I read these threads *pours self another glass*
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo.
Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed.
To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-23 8:03 PM
Whiteboy - 2018-10-23 5:11 PM
What about drugs like Reserpine? There are some big trainers that have advocated for it and admit use.
Some people need Xanax
Some horses need it as well
Also I want to be clear the types of Clenbuterol or alberterol that barrel racers are using I have absolutely no problem with...
The south of the border race track water "aka compounded clenbuterol" is what I was referring to....
Resperine, Cholorpromazine, Guanzabenz, and Ace (okay so maybe not this one but basically same as a glass of wine ) are all forms of human meds that are actually the most prescribed drug with any health care provider these days. We put performance horses under tremendous pressure, some hold up and some need help. Just like people some hold up and some like me need wine. Like when I read these threads *pours self another glass*
I am not aware that Reserpine was prescribed so often for people, hmmmmmm. Are you sure about that? My sister is a pharmacist so I have access to some pretty solid numbers. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| stayceem - 2018-10-24 9:04 AM
WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo.
Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed.
To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't.
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| stayceem - 2018-10-24 9:04 AM
WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo.
Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed.
To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't.
I trained for my job too. Ergonomics have been stuffed down my throat, yet I come home certain days after practicing hygiene all day and my back hurts, my shoulder hurts. I will take an ibuprofen. I also disagree bec some older horses need help. They are 17 and stuck in a concrete stall all weekend. Not giving some some sort of pain relief is kind of mean. Horses don't always tell us they are in pain... Some are very stoic. No different then my 60 year old mom getting out of a car after a 6 hour drive. Does her taking an ibuprofen make her a handicap and ineligible to run a marathon.... No. When I rodeoed a couple years ago my horses got bute or previcox. 12 hours or more in a trailer per weekend is harder on them then the run itself. | |
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 Go go girl
| stayceem - 2018-10-24 8:04 AM WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch. Bingo^^^ We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo. Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed. To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't.
Agree 100%!!!!!! | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-24 10:14 AM
stayceem - 2018-10-24 9:04 AM
WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo.
Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed.
To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't. I trained for my job too. Ergonomics have been stuffed down my throat, yet I come home certain days after practicing hygiene all day and my back hurts, my shoulder hurts. I will take an ibuprofen. I also disagree bec some older horses need help. They are 17 and stuck in a concrete stall all weekend. Not giving some some sort of pain relief is kind of mean. Horses don't always tell us they are in pain... Some are very stoic. No different then my 60 year old mom getting out of a car after a 6 hour drive. Does her taking an ibuprofen make her a handicap and ineligible to run a marathon.... No. When I rodeoed a couple years ago my horses got bute or previcox. 12 hours or more in a trailer per weekend is harder on them then the run itself.
I think we are having an argument and yet agreeing to some degree. I agree that if a horse is stalled on concrete all weekend, seems tight in his muscles or has some indication of pain or discomfort then I help where needed. I have a big gelding with various issues and I rub him down with sore no more, he gets massage work before big events and we do a lot of walking. If he seems to be tightening up (usually smaller stall or crappy weather where he gets walked less) then I will give a gram of bute. I practice the same for myself. However, I can also say I can get sore stiff or have some aches and pains and I go for a walk or get moving and I feel LOADS better. After a long day at work where I am seated more than usual, my back will get sore. I don't immediately pop an ibuprofen... I usually get up and go for a walk, do some stretching and ironically enough a workout at the gym or riding makes it literally disappear!!!
Once in awhile, under the right circumstances are not what I am talking about. But those who medicate because they MAY be sore or they COULD have discomfort, I don't believe in over-medicating. A horse doesn't have to be lame to tell you he is sore. I can tell if he is tighter in his muscles, his movement if he is stiff, etc. This is no different than the brutal cold winters where they stand at the roundbale for hours on end. I take them out and walk them 20-30 min, they aren't stocked up anymore and they are moving much better. It may not be obvious to see but I can tell a difference. If I gave bute for every time they could be, might be sore.... they would have some serious gut health issues.
I also believe in building tolerance to medications. So when I take an ibuprofen... it works immediately and I don't need 4 of them. From the science I understand behind any anti-inflammatory drug, they are the same in that way. I had a friends mare battling a very serious DDFT tear and near the end, she was so tolerant to bute, she was having gut issues and they had to keep increasing her dose. I use it as needed. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 890
| All I have to say on this subject is, People decide for themselves if they want to take any kind of meds weather it be light like ibuprofen or harder prescription drugs. Horses can't decide & don't have a choice if they want drugs or not. Just a thought :) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| oija - 2018-10-24 9:40 AM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-23 8:03 PM
Whiteboy - 2018-10-23 5:11 PM
What about drugs like Reserpine? There are some big trainers that have advocated for it and admit use.
Some people need Xanax
Some horses need it as well
Also I want to be clear the types of Clenbuterol or alberterol that barrel racers are using I have absolutely no problem with...
The south of the border race track water "aka compounded clenbuterol" is what I was referring to....
Resperine, Cholorpromazine, Guanzabenz, and Ace (okay so maybe not this one but basically same as a glass of wine ) are all forms of human meds that are actually the most prescribed drug with any health care provider these days. We put performance horses under tremendous pressure, some hold up and some need help. Just like people some hold up and some like me need wine. Like when I read these threads *pours self another glass*
I am not aware that Reserpine was prescribed so often for people, hmmmmmm. Are you sure about that? My sister is a pharmacist so I have access to some pretty solid numbers.
It's prescribed as an autistic, seizure, and bi-polar/ mood evaluating drug. For human purposes there are usually a much better alternatives that are easier on a human's GI tract but they are all the same class or family.
Also I'm not trying to prove Resperine is the most prescribed drug or compare numbers but I worked in health care admin as a insurance quality analyst (we ran reports on personnel and out of 3,500 plus employees the number one prescription drug our healthcare insurance had to pay for were mood stabilizers, bi-oplar meds, depression meds etc.... same stats for police officers or teachers in most urban areas. Point I am making is some humans need mood stabilizers some horses do as well....especially those under pressure to behave perfectly, as we ask our horses to do. I feel like most people never think about the fact that we ask our horses to do everything perfectly. Walk into the arena, always be balanced, always give, no kickng, bolting, rearing, etc...
I feel like most barrel racers always assume pain but by gosh sometimes horses are just horses and they fret being "perfect"
I'm not gonna argue about "natural" and that bull. Barrel racing a horse is not natural....a horse carrying itself balanced and having flexion with us on their back is not natural. They didn't get a choice in those things either for those that feel that they don't have a choice to say no to drugs.
For the lord's sake people horses are not in the DARE program and they don't know it is red ribbon week. *pops Xanax along with wine tonight and shakes head*
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-10-24 8:25 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| My horse and I usually share a couple of beers before we run. He loves his diet | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| streakysox - 2018-10-24 8:53 PM
My horse and I usually share a couple of beers before we run. He loves his diet
IPA's really get non-sweaters back in business! And they help me tuck and roll better if I fall off | |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-24 8:59 PM
streakysox - 2018-10-24 8:53 PM
My horse and I usually share a couple of beers before we run. He loves his diet
IPA's really get non-sweaters back in business! And they help me tuck and roll better if I fall off
How about some wine! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-24 9:16 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-24 8:59 PM
streakysox - 2018-10-24 8:53 PM
My horse and I usually share a couple of beers before we run. He loves his diet
IPA's really get non-sweaters back in business! And they help me tuck and roll better if I fall off How about some wine!
My colts are not classy enough for wine
I mean maybe the one *thinking face*
Actually I've never gave a horse have wine. Beer yes.....champagne once...whiskey okay a time or two just because they were a noisy nellie .....but wine nope never tried it. *GASPS* This may be the secret to get 4D freddy 2 seconds faster tho! Which do you think is the best white or red? I"m thinking white because what if nitrates bother them?
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-10-24 9:54 PM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-24 9:52 PM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-24 9:16 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-10-24 8:59 PM
streakysox - 2018-10-24 8:53 PM
My horse and I usually share a couple of beers before we run. He loves his diet
IPA's really get non-sweaters back in business! And they help me tuck and roll better if I fall off How about some wine!
My colts are not classy enough for wine
I mean maybe the one *thinking face*
Actually I've never gave a horse have wine. Beer yes.....champagne once...whiskey okay a time or two just because they were a noisy nellie .....but wine nope never tried it. *GASPS* This may be the secret to get 4D freddy 2 seconds faster tho! Which do you think is the best white or red? I"m thinking white because what if nitrates bother them?
omg too funny! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| stayceem - 2018-10-24 9:04 AM
WiscoRacer - 2018-10-23 8:37 PM
rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 4:58 PM
stayceem - 2018-10-23 4:07 PM rachellyn80 - 2018-10-23 12:07 PM I personally feel that Bute and Banamine aren't utilized enough.... Posts like this only perpetuate the reasoning that "if they need that to run they shouldn't be running"....Why wouldn't an animal need NSAIDs for recovery after what we ask them to do for us??
At any given time we might be seen with a syringe drawn up with Bute, Banamine, B-Complex, Clenbuterol, or Lasix....because I CARE about my horse's soundness and comfort. I do disagree with this. As an athlete (when I was younger ), I relied on good diet and exercise to play sports. Now not to stay something didn't happen that I needed an ibuprofen now and again but it wasn't consistent. I don't see my horses as athletes any different. I workout regularly and use a good electrolyte/muscle recovery supplement (similar to the post workout pastes ) after hard lift days but otherwise I eat well, slowly build myself up before I ask to do anything that's gonna create injury or need for medication.
As it stands, saddles don't always fit, farriers aren't perfect, a little slip can cause great pain, and I like to be a little proactive when I know I've asked them for a lot. Standing on concrete, running in trashy ground, and hauling around an unbalanced load can cause a lot of soreness that the less observant aren't going to catch.
Bingo^^^
We also don't have thousand pound body's on 4 little stick legs, nor do we carry around an extra animal on our backs, or go galumphing around the pasture and get a rock in our shoe that we can't get out... I could go on. Not comparable imo.
Horses are designed yes much different than humans. However, athletes are athletes and all things train and adjust to their "job." Horses have 4 legs instead of two to carry a much bigger body. Obviously its not the same but conditioning is. You train for the job. Some cant handle it. No different than human athletes. My horses stomach health is a lot more important to me than to overload with bute regularly because they "might" be sore. I know my horses very well and can tell when something is off... if something is off or they are on concrete all weekend, I will give a gram of bute but that's it. Pull them if needed.
To each their own but I am also a believer that drugs can cause more harm than good and some serious long-term effects. I focus a lot more on the old school method of good diet and exercise. Make sure they are fit, not overworked, rest when they need it, rub downs after long hauls or something funny in a run. I don't want to rely on meds. I personally don't.
I'm not saying they should be pumped full of drugs all the time. I think we're actually on the same page - they need to be conditioned and trained and at the top of their game. I'm a firm believer in preparation. However, I'm not afraid to give a gram of bute during a 3 day race or a hard days work. Guess I just didn't agree with the comparison to human athletes, being we can talk and complain to people where we hurt ;) and my analogies were a little off base. Anywho! | |
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Drugs at barrel races...