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 Popped
Posts: 20421
 
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | Last summer at youth world my students horse came up with a very sore back. its only where the spine meets the hip joint. With some time off and injection to relieve the inflammation she was fine. We started her back working with light riding and now 30 days in she is getting sore again.
My question is in your experiences where is the underlying aggravation? We can work on the back again but im wondering where to look otherwise. (ps... the three vets that saw her in the summer only wanted to treat the sore back instead of making sure all bases were covered. I went with that theory but now im not sure) |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| My experience with this, if injecting to reduce inflammation helped temporarily the horse is likely protecting something. My gelding suddenly came up with a sore back, we did meso therapy and he was fine for a few months (went into winter so he wasn't doing as much either) and then it came back. Turned out he had kissing spine, we finally took x-rays after I was done with "theories," I wanted to know. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| I know this sounds too simple but maybe check to make sure there isn't too much grab on hind shoes causing hocks and back to get sore. This happened with my mare. She was born, raised and trained at my house, I knew every hair on her body. She naturally used her hind end a lot. We had her in rim shoes all around.
Her first year being patterned she developed a sore back. Checked saddle fit, etc. Took to vet and he said sore hocks. I was concerned about her getting sore "already" because she just started running and wasn't being run hard AT ALL. We injected with no changes at all. On a total whim I decided to pull her back shoes and within a couple of weeks she was back to normal with zero soreness at all. Brought back to vet for follow up and he was surprised at the quick turn around. He said it was a lesson learned for him as well. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I would have her pelvic area checked,and x-ray hocks to start.I would also x-ray feet and check angles. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Did they X-ray before injecting? If not...that’s surprising.
We had one sore in this same area come back positive for kissing spines. He gets injected every 10-12 months and life is good. I would make sure he doesn’t have KS for sure. Many great horses have it and with treatment get along just fine.
After that I would agree with others and head down the hind legs looking for hock issues etc including shoes that may be causing it. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would rule out Kissing Spine befor I did any thing else..Find a Vet that is willing to do this, sounds like the 3 Vets that you took her too did'nt want to spent time to try to fine the cause of her sore back. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | I have a friend with an ex cutter who has been gone over with a fine toothed comb. No matter what he does, he gets a sore back. She uses Draw It Out after every ride, and a Back On Track pad. That's not a fix all - he probably does need to have more diagnostics, but this works for my friend. |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I have a similiar horse. If it is where the back meets the hip from what I understand is that they can't really develop kissing spine there.
My one horse has super sensitive tissue. Which the entire back is made up of fascia. For about 4 years I have managed his back pain by keeping him on lysine. When the weather turns cold he tends to be more sore so I use a back on track to help. In the summer I manage with a magnetic blanket.
I have also found that when his back gets wet he is more sensitive.
I have the number of a man who helped me treat my horse with this issue. Since then I have just maintained it. We are in Northern Kentucky. I can send his number if you are interested. He is a vet and really a legend in our area with what he can fix.
Edited to add: I would read up on fascia tissue in horses. This is my horses issue.
Edited by magic gunsmoke 2018-10-21 2:39 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| magic gunsmoke - 2018-10-21 2:38 PM
I have a similiar horse. If it is where the back meets the hip from what I understand is that they can't really develop kissing spine there.
My one horse has super sensitive tissue. Which the entire back is made up of fascia. For about 4 years I have managed his back pain by keeping him on lysine. When the weather turns cold he tends to be more sore so I use a back on track to help. In the summer I manage with a magnetic blanket.
I have also found that when his back gets wet he is more sensitive.
I have the number of a man who helped me treat my horse with this issue. Since then I have just maintained it. We are in Northern Kentucky. I can send his number if you are interested. He is a vet and really a legend in our area with what he can fix.
Edited to add: I would read up on fascia tissue in horses. This is my horses issue.
When we inject ours he gets injected from T15-L3. The thoracic vertebrae each attach to a rib and end at T18. There are 6 lumbar vertebrae before the sacrum and pelvis start. So we inject 3 thoracic and 3 lumbar vertebrae. The 5 sacral vertebrae that follow the lumbar vertebrae are fused to form the sacrum...since these are fused you couldn’t have KS here from the start of the pelvis to the tailhead.
His soreness would appear from right around where the back of the saddle sat to between his hips.
I would not rule out KS in the OP’s horse without X-rays. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| those of you that had kissing spine what were your symptoms? I had a few friends horses that had it... One who's horse who would get saddled then buck. Then another friend who's mare would buckle at the knees when the saddle was tightened.... My current horse has been trying to bite while cinching. She is getting over a major injury of her si and pelvis. I just had L3 L4 L5 and her SI injected. Also mesotherapy done twice. Then scoped for ulcers and she was clear... Also hocks and stifles needed to be done with in the last 6 months and had no change in her behavior.... Now I'm curious about kissing spine.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2018-10-21 10:24 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-21 10:20 PM
those of you that had kissing spine what were your symptoms? I had a few friends horses that had it... One who's horse who would get saddled then buck. Then another friend who's mare would buckle at the knees when the saddle was tightened.... My current horse has been trying to bite while cinching. She is getting over a major injury of her si and pelvis. I just had L3 L4 L5 and her SI injected. Also mesotherapy done twice. Then scoped for ulcers and she was clear... Also hocks and stifles needed to be done with in the last 6 months and had no change in her behavior.... Now I'm curious about kissing spine.
Mine would get sore after roping. Running barrels he was ok for 1 season after we got him, crushing in the 4d/5d. I started to ask for more the following spring and we CREAMED the 2nd barrel at a race, late the previous season we had fallen at the 2nd too in really crappy rodeo ground. I have no idea if the 2 are related but after that he would not turn the left barrel (also the direction he has to turn as a head horse). Mentally he never came back from that, so we just roped on him. We tried addressing the soreness we were seeing in other ways, but finally vetted him. He flexed and trotted 110% and they were ready to send us home. Since we had hauled 2 hours to get there, I asked for an X-ray of the area that was sore, even though we didn’t even know what it was we were looking for. Boom. Clear as day. I’d seen discussions here before about KS and when the vet called me into the side room to look at the films I walked in and went “oh, kissing spines. That does make sense.” Part of me wonders if now, 2 years later, if he would turn a barrel again. The other part of me says he’s getting on so wonderfully doing what he’s doing that it’s not worth asking him to.
If you listen to Jackie Jatzlau’s podcast Married with Horses, she talks in one about her great horse King having KS and how it was a years long process to figure out what would cause his on again off again lameness. Finally after a fall on his shoulder they were taking films of that and caught part of his wither in one...hello KS. He had surgery to correct and has clearly come back just fine. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-10-21 10:20 PM
those of you that had kissing spine what were your symptoms? I had a few friends horses that had it... One who's horse who would get saddled then buck. Then another friend who's mare would buckle at the knees when the saddle was tightened.... My current horse has been trying to bite while cinching. She is getting over a major injury of her si and pelvis. I just had L3 L4 L5 and her SI injected. Also mesotherapy done twice. Then scoped for ulcers and she was clear... Also hocks and stifles needed to be done with in the last 6 months and had no change in her behavior.... Now I'm curious about kissing spine.
Mine was just cinchy... he had never been cinchy and his back was rock hard all of a sudden. He never had issues under saddle or on the pattern but I believe mine was injury related so it was a sudden change. I caught it faster than I think I would have had it gradually gotten worse. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I would have the horse tested for EPM if you haven't. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I would start with the teeth. |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | stayceem - 2018-10-19 5:20 PM My experience with this, if injecting to reduce inflammation helped temporarily the horse is likely protecting something. My gelding suddenly came up with a sore back, we did meso therapy and he was fine for a few months (went into winter so he wasn't doing as much either) and then it came back. Turned out he had kissing spine, we finally took x-rays after I was done with "theories," I wanted to know.
Thats kinda where we are at. Just curious what others have found in their sore back searches.  |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | magic gunsmoke - 2018-10-21 3:38 PM I have a similiar horse. If it is where the back meets the hip from what I understand is that they can't really develop kissing spine there.
My one horse has super sensitive tissue. Which the entire back is made up of fascia. For about 4 years I have managed his back pain by keeping him on lysine. When the weather turns cold he tends to be more sore so I use a back on track to help. In the summer I manage with a magnetic blanket.
I have also found that when his back gets wet he is more sensitive.
I have the number of a man who helped me treat my horse with this issue. Since then I have just maintained it. We are in Northern Kentucky. I can send his number if you are interested. He is a vet and really a legend in our area with what he can fix.
Edited to add: I would read up on fascia tissue in horses. This is my horses issue.
gonna read up on this. Thanks for the info. |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | dianeguinn - 2018-10-22 1:50 PM I would have the horse tested for EPM if you haven't.
with the only symptom is soreness in the back at the him area? |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | streakysox - 2018-10-22 4:34 PM I would start with the teeth.
her teeth have been regularly done, but curious why you would recomend teeth? |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| My only advice, start where the problem is.... if you x-ray back and its clean then go from there. Because sore back could be ulcers, hocks, stifles, feet, etc etc etc etc... Goes on and on but I would start with the obvious spot before you head down the wild goose chase of veterinary medicine. Believe me.... I've been there!!!! |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I have one that was fixed by simply taking her off of grass. She's in a dry lot with alfalfa cubes and grass hay.....no more sore back. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 890
| My first barrel horse would get a sore back. With him, it was foot issues. His feet weren't the best in the world & finding a good shoer in my area was almost impossible. I did have one, but then he quit shoeing. Actually I had to retire my horse early because of a shoer who ruined his feet. But his feet were causing his back problem. Just something to think about. Hope you find out your horses problem so he can feel better. |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I had a gelding that would come up sore in the back in that area when his angles and break overs weren't correct.. he would tell on a shoer.. FAST So check your angles and breakovers  |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | luluwhit - 2018-10-23 3:58 PM
dianeguinn - 2018-10-22 1:50 PM I would have the horse tested for EPM if you haven't.
with the only symptom is soreness in the back at the him area?
Yes. I had one that would get sore in his lower back and his hocks and stifles were fine, as well as his hoof angles. Could treat him for EPM, and no more soreness. I'd do it just to rule it out before I spent money on injections. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | SI joint(s). My horse was sore in the same spot and it was his SI on both sides. Injected those and he's a new horse. |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | Vet says stifles. exrayed the joint to make sure it was ok. injected stifles and will give three days of rest.
So anyone got maintenence, excercises, good advice for keeping stifles from getting sore again? |
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Location: my piece of paradise | I have learned over the years a sore back and hocks generally starts with incorrect angles and shoeing. My farrier is one of the most important parts of my program. Many farriers don't take enough toe off and take the heel off. I don't understand why its so hard to realize these horses need to be on their toes and not on their heels. Think about if you had to run on your heels... one it would be very difficult and you couldn't run very fast, and two after time you would be sore in you hind end from the strain and unnatural gait.
May not be the case for this horse but I would definitely consider it. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| luluwhit - 2018-10-30 8:22 AM Vet says stifles. exrayed the joint to make sure it was ok. injected stifles and will give three days of rest.
So anyone got maintenence, excercises, good advice for keeping stifles from getting sore again?
PHT Stifle Wraps |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | luluwhit - 2018-10-30 8:22 AM
Vet says stifles. exrayed the joint to make sure it was ok. injected stifles and will give three days of rest.
So anyone got maintenence, excercises, good advice for keeping stifles from getting sore again?
Ugh I feel for ya! Were the rads clean? Keep the feet trimmed regularly and the break over correct for that horse. Long toes in the back will sore them up quickly. From personal experience I had to inject the stifles on my current barrel horse twice since purchasing him last fall. The first time we did both and the second time we just did the right. They xrayed clean both times, but he was super hock sore and I think it traveled up. I haven't injected those stifles in a long while, however, IF I had to go back in I would seriously contemplate trying IRAP. My horse is young...he'll be 8 and my vet is very, very cautious about going into the stifle, on that young of a horse, with a steroid. Not sure how old this horse is, but just something to ask your vet about and mull over. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 890
| luluwhit - 2018-10-30 8:22 AM
Vet says stifles. exrayed the joint to make sure it was ok. injected stifles and will give three days of rest.
So anyone got maintenence, excercises, good advice for keeping stifles from getting sore again?
I have a mare who's stifles get injected every 6 months if I am running her. She is on adaquan & I give her 2 scoops of msm. They both help her.
Edited by okhorselover 2018-10-30 6:34 PM
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Horse with sore back-Update 10/30/18