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Location: Southeast Louisiana | I have been thinking of getting a livestock guardian dog, I wonder if some of you with experience could help me with some questions about the breed. I am leaning toward the Anatolian. I know that I need to raise them from a pup, in the pen with the chickens/geese/goats/and have them around the horses when I’m outside. But, my house dog has a doggie door. Are Anatolians so driven to be with their livestock that they won’t just follow my house dog inside? Or, is that expecting for too much from this breed? Also, once they learn their boundaries, are they good at sticking close to home without running off too far, chasing coyotes. I know I need to spend the first year exposing them to livestock and walking the perimeter of the property, my hope is that they won’t want to leave that perimeter once they’re properly exposed to it? | |
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Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Bump | |
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Location: lone star state | they generally dont want to be pets. they are independant and rather be out with livestock than with people. | |
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Posts: 152
| I have a Pyrenees/Anatolian. Best dog ever. She's very protective and on guard. She does come in at night and is spoiled like any other dog of mine, but she'd almost always rather be outside. She was very socialized from day 1, but I still have to be careful with new people on the property.... Some she doesn't mind at all, others she'll "threaten" and attempt to nip. Haven't had her bite anyone but she can be pretty scary looking! Think that aggression comes more from the Anatolian side of her. She's nice to animals you tell her to "be nice" to, but any others she's running them off the property.
I'd have 100 more of her if I could. | |
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Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Thank you both, so much, for the information! I know each dog will be different, but I also know selective breeding works! I just wanted to hear some success stories to reinforce my decision... thanks!! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| So LGD's are usually standoffish if you get them as a puppy, leave them in a pen next to (or a pen inside a pen) with your livestock. That is normal, they bond to the livestock and protect them - that is usually what they are bred for and should be used for.
Some tame down and can be petted, but honestly, how ever you treat them is how they will "be".
We have run them with our livestock for 20+ years. They will roam to a certain extent and really good fences are a must. The good ones are worth their weight in gold in my opinion.
Feel free to PM me any questions - there are some GREAT support groups on facebook that can answer lots of specific questions and connect you to reputable breeders too.
Good Luck!
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Location: on my horse | I have a Kangal/Transmontano cross that I've raised from a very young pup, he is fiercely protective of both me and my property. Nobody comes and goes without him seeing, by the time he turned a year old he started seeking out the highest point on the property to watch from when I was outside. He also does frequent tours of the parameter. It's fun to see instincts so powerfully at work. I haven't had a problem with him wandering at all but I raised him at my side so he's very bonded to me. I've accidentally left the front gate open before and he just lays and watches and doesn't leave. He goes riding with me, has his spot at the arena where he lays and can keep up on trails for miles. We even went camping this summer and although we could hear wolves at night and other animals making their way around/through camp he never went farther than where I had the horses highlined.
They are night barkers, I swear his level of intensity turns up after dark and he prowls the house if he hears something or pastures if he's outside. They're also very stubborn, I think he turned out so well mannered because I got him at barely 4 weeks old, not recommended but I feel like it helped me dodge a lot of training/personality issues we could have had later. He was a feral little thing at first! I've worked really hard to push through the stubborn and am able to call him off something he's chasing off property if needed and people can safely come to my house as long as I'm home lol
They are slow maturing and as a pup yours won't be so driven as to not follow your other dog inside, as yours grows as long as he doesn't have any negative experience with livestock he should bond entirely. I've heard some people have roaming issues but that depends on the size of the property, their own personal inclinations, and I think a little bit on how you raise them.
sorry for the book! I know my dog is a little atypical because he is my personal guardian as well as my property but I hope my experience still helps.
Edited by redmansmyman11 2018-11-22 12:08 PM
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Location: SoCal | I have a Pyrenees and he's great with livestock, even though he wasn't raised with chickens, he is very accepting of them, and will even let them eat out of his food dish with him. I usually just have to set boundaries for him, and he accepts them. For him to kill anything, it pretty much has to run into his mouth (or already be dead, but hunting is by far not his thing). He does like to lay exactly where I am, so if I'm working a horse, half the time he's in my path. He's plopped down next to a barrel *while* I'm working the barrel pattern. He's slowed down on his protection as he's gotten older (he's going on 10 if I remember correctly), so we're looking to get a pup again. I've been told Pyrenees are usually more barkers, they won't bite unless cornered type thing, where as Anatolians are a bit more bold. I'm looking for an Anatolian or Anatolian/Pyrenees cross for our next LGD, although I wouldn't pass a good Pyrenees if one popped up. Our biggest concern is coyotes, they like to go through the back of our 2.5 acres between properties, but our area does get the occasional bobcat or mountain lion that comes down from the mountains through the washes. The owls and hawks like to get our chickens, and he'll actually chase them off if he spots them. My property is fenced, and even though my Pyr used to put his front feet on the top of our 5 foot fence to bark, he has never been a fence jumper. His dad was a roamer however, so unless you plan on breeding, neuter males and that tends to help.
I do agree that as far as their behavior towards people depends on how they're raised. Mine has never been stranger friendly. He will stand back and bark. If I'm sitting down, he's plopped on my lap to "protect" me from people. He'll leave his food dish to follow me inside, but he's an outside only dog, simply too much hair to be inside and half the time he's a mess because he digs holes and lays in mud. I have no doubt that if he didn't have a barrier to keep from coming inside, he'd be inside a lot more than necessary because he counts us as his herd too. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | If you have a smaller place you might want to consider the Maremma Livestock dog. They don't wander near as far as our GP/Ant. crosses. We have had to drive up to 12mi from our ranch when the hunters are calling coyotes; the dogs get involved! They will come in for the kill per the hunters. If you have a bigger spread the Ant./GP are great. Ours can cover 6000 acres keeping the coyotes on the run. The hogs still make it on the ranch but the dogs will run them out ASAP. We use donkeys with our replacement kids to lend the dogs a hand. Our donkeys have killed fox, not sure about coyotes.
Our GP/Ant. are friendly to folks they know but they are respected by all. We have a male that shows up at the hunting camps around the area every time he hears kids playing, he's such a good gentle giant. We have tightlock game perimeter fence and tightlock 61-3 for our cross fencing. The dogs still cover all pastures and will dig out the perimeter to run coyotes. We have 8 dogs covering our pastures. The only one that wants to "come in" is the big male- He's a hoot, thinks he can be a lap dog | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | lindseylou2290 - 2018-11-21 8:39 AM
So LGD's are usually standoffish if you get them as a puppy, leave them in a pen next to (or a pen inside a pen) with your livestock. That is normal, they bond to the livestock and protect them - that is usually what they are bred for and should be used for.
Some tame down and can be petted, but honestly, how ever you treat them is how they will "be".
We have run them with our livestock for 20+ years. They will roam to a certain extent and really good fences are a must. The good ones are worth their weight in gold in my opinion.
Feel free to PM me any questions - there are some GREAT support groups on facebook that can answer lots of specific questions and connect you to reputable breeders too.
Good Luck!
Thanks! I would definitely be interested in reading some of the posts on the facebook groups. I did a search and posted to one group, but I didn’t get any replies. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | redmansmyman11 - 2018-11-22 12:05 PM
I have a Kangal/Transmontano cross that I've raised from a very young pup, he is fiercely protective of both me and my property. Nobody comes and goes without him seeing, by the time he turned a year old he started seeking out the highest point on the property to watch from when I was outside. He also does frequent tours of the parameter. It's fun to see instincts so powerfully at work. I haven't had a problem with him wandering at all but I raised him at my side so he's very bonded to me. I've accidentally left the front gate open before and he just lays and watches and doesn't leave. He goes riding with me, has his spot at the arena where he lays and can keep up on trails for miles. We even went camping this summer and although we could hear wolves at night and other animals making their way around/through camp he never went farther than where I had the horses highlined.
They are night barkers, I swear his level of intensity turns up after dark and he prowls the house if he hears something or pastures if he's outside. They're also very stubborn, I think he turned out so well mannered because I got him at barely 4 weeks old, not recommended but I feel like it helped me dodge a lot of training/personality issues we could have had later. He was a feral little thing at first! I've worked really hard to push through the stubborn and am able to call him off something he's chasing off property if needed and people can safely come to my house as long as I'm home lol
They are slow maturing and as a pup yours won't be so driven as to not follow your other dog inside, as yours grows as long as he doesn't have any negative experience with livestock he should bond entirely. I've heard some people have roaming issues but that depends on the size of the property, their own personal inclinations, and I think a little bit on how you raise them.
sorry for the book! I know my dog is a little atypical because he is my personal guardian as well as my property but I hope my experience still helps.
Thanks for the great info. I’m trying to learn all I can before I get one. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Last Catt - 2018-11-22 3:16 PM
I have a Pyrenees and he's great with livestock, even though he wasn't raised with chickens, he is very accepting of them, and will even let them eat out of his food dish with him. I usually just have to set boundaries for him, and he accepts them. For him to kill anything, it pretty much has to run into his mouth (or already be dead, but hunting is by far not his thing). He does like to lay exactly where I am, so if I'm working a horse, half the time he's in my path. He's plopped down next to a barrel *while* I'm working the barrel pattern. He's slowed down on his protection as he's gotten older (he's going on 10 if I remember correctly), so we're looking to get a pup again. I've been told Pyrenees are usually more barkers, they won't bite unless cornered type thing, where as Anatolians are a bit more bold. I'm looking for an Anatolian or Anatolian/Pyrenees cross for our next LGD, although I wouldn't pass a good Pyrenees if one popped up. Our biggest concern is coyotes, they like to go through the back of our 2.5 acres between properties, but our area does get the occasional bobcat or mountain lion that comes down from the mountains through the washes. The owls and hawks like to get our chickens, and he'll actually chase them off if he spots them. My property is fenced, and even though my Pyr used to put his front feet on the top of our 5 foot fence to bark, he has never been a fence jumper. His dad was a roamer however, so unless you plan on breeding, neuter males and that tends to help.
I do agree that as far as their behavior towards people depends on how they're raised. Mine has never been stranger friendly. He will stand back and bark. If I'm sitting down, he's plopped on my lap to "protect" me from people. He'll leave his food dish to follow me inside, but he's an outside only dog, simply too much hair to be inside and half the time he's a mess because he digs holes and lays in mud. I have no doubt that if he didn't have a barrier to keep from coming inside, he'd be inside a lot more than necessary because he counts us as his herd too.
I was steering clear of the Pyrs because all the ones i’ve personally seen were wanderers and chicken killers! I appreciate the feedback.
I do plan on keeping him or her penned up with the animals when i’m not home and doing frequent walks of the perimeter for at least the first year. I think that will make a big difference. I don’t know if the ones i’ve seen had any real training. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | uno-dos-tres! - 2018-11-22 10:38 PM
If you have a smaller place you might want to consider the Maremma Livestock dog. They don't wander near as far as our GP/Ant. crosses. We have had to drive up to 12mi from our ranch when the hunters are calling coyotes; the dogs get involved! They will come in for the kill per the hunters. If you have a bigger spread the Ant./GP are great. Ours can cover 6000 acres keeping the coyotes on the run. The hogs still make it on the ranch but the dogs will run them out ASAP. We use donkeys with our replacement kids to lend the dogs a hand. Our donkeys have killed fox, not sure about coyotes.
Our GP/Ant. are friendly to folks they know but they are respected by all. We have a male that shows up at the hunting camps around the area every time he hears kids playing, he's such a good gentle giant. We have tightlock game perimeter fence and tightlock 61-3 for our cross fencing. The dogs still cover all pastures and will dig out the perimeter to run coyotes. We have 8 dogs covering our pastures. The only one that wants to "come in" is the big male- He's a hoot, thinks he can be a lap dog
Wow! That’s a lot of acreage! I’m on 30. Too many acres to try and fence for dogs. It’s fenced with barbed wire, tho. The Anatolians seem to have similar temperaments to German Shepherd. I have lots of experience with training them. I know how important that first year is and i’m hoping I can train one to our property line. From everything i’ve read, the Pyrs seem to have a closer temperament to the bully breeds. Which I have never gotten along with. I’m afraid of getting a Pyr who is determined to protect the neighbor’s cows, regardless of how much training I do with it. But, I definitely don’t plan on turning it loose and expecting instincts to do all the training for me, regardless of what breed I choose.
Maybe i’m completely off base with my impression of each breed. But, that’s why I’m trying to get as many opinions as possible before I make a decision. | |
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| We have a Great Pyrenees...he patrols at night and usually sleeps during the day. He has been keeping the coyotes away from the herd so I think he's worth it! They do like to patrol...usually at night and he patrols atleast a 4 mile radius. | |
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Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | I have an anotolian/Akbash female - she is standoffish but she knows here job.... she lives with goats 24/7 365.... she loves her belly rubbed IF she
knows you -- She was a rehoming for me when i got her as a 2 yr old.... I kept her pen for 2 weeks... and then she has done her job... she would walk thru the house and walk right back out... I don't want her in the house and she lived in the shed with the goats. that is her job.... I feed her raw bones and meat and dry dog food.... she was introduced to all the house dogs, and they were part of her to protect group. She prefered to being outsided and patroling her home.... she went/goes where the goats went.... I have 2 lgd's , one female one male one stays with the goats, and the other patrols. When the goats are out grazing one is always patroling, Bear is in the lead, hayden would bring up the rear..... You need to understand they are independent, self thinkers, and they area 2000 yr old. breed. I love them and are fun to watch work.... some people will tell you not to mess with them, I do, you want them leash broke, you want them socialized, (vet purposes) and to be able to ride in car if needed for Emergency situations. If you want to know anything else let me know...
added: mine patrol a 1/2 section of ground.
Starting out with puppies, you need to supervise, you don't want the livestock to hurt them or scare them.... as they grow you will have to go thru the teen age years with them.... and their naughtiness if you will I would like to encourage you to go facebook and their are facebook groups for LGD's and specific breeds... specifically for anotolians amd they will have files where you can read, and socialize with others.
plus with the anatolians - their hair coat is shorter and easier to care.... I would many of these dogs... I love mine two..... love them!
Edited by Dinero10 2018-11-23 3:33 PM
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| Just an FYI I have an Anatolian and a German and I don't think they are alike at all.
My German is very needy and wants to please me. He learns scary fast and has to keep me in his sights at all times. Sometimes it's like he's reading my mind and tries to help me when I'm working the horses, and even tries to help me pull weeds and do yard work. When I ride he follows behind me the entire time and when I get off he's right at my side. It's like this dog was born trained.
I always joke around about my Anatolian being "his own man". I don't own him, he choses to be around us lol. He loves me and wants attention when he wants it, but he's also very independent. He is SUPER stubborn and it took me forever just to teach him to sit. He's almost 10 now and he still pauses before he sits just so I know it's his choice. He can dig a hole to china in about 10 minutes and I've never been able to break him of that. On the other hand he's a gentle giant. He plays with tiny dogs and small animals so gently. I wouldn't call him a great watch dog necessarily, in fact most of the time he's pretty quiet until he thinks there's danger. Oddly enough he's a fantastic judge of character and knows when someone is "not good", and hates when other dogs fight or if he thinks I'm in danger (then he barks...A LOT!). He's actually mellow and a really good peace keeper as opposed to the high prey drive and energy of my german.
Both of them can go in and out of the house as they please. My Anatolian was never raised with a herd so I am his herd, and he always stays pretty close to me. Overall he's a really cool dog, but he's not at all like my german shepherd. If you get one thinking they are the same you may be disappointed. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | allmypenniestohorses - 2018-11-23 4:13 PM
Just an FYI I have an Anatolian and a German and I don't think they are alike at all.
My German is very needy and wants to please me. He learns scary fast and has to keep me in his sights at all times. Sometimes it's like he's reading my mind and tries to help me when I'm working the horses, and even tries to help me pull weeds and do yard work. When I ride he follows behind me the entire time and when I get off he's right at my side. It's like this dog was born trained.
I always joke around about my Anatolian being "his own man". I don't own him, he choses to be around us lol. He loves me and wants attention when he wants it, but he's also very independent. He is SUPER stubborn and it took me forever just to teach him to sit. He's almost 10 now and he still pauses before he sits just so I know it's his choice. He can dig a hole to china in about 10 minutes and I've never been able to break him of that. On the other hand he's a gentle giant. He plays with tiny dogs and small animals so gently. I wouldn't call him a great watch dog necessarily, in fact most of the time he's pretty quiet until he thinks there's danger. Oddly enough he's a fantastic judge of character and knows when someone is "not good", and hates when other dogs fight or if he thinks I'm in danger (then he barks...A LOT!). He's actually mellow and a really good peace keeper as opposed to the high prey drive and energy of my german.
Both of them can go in and out of the house as they please. My Anatolian was never raised with a herd so I am his herd, and he always stays pretty close to me. Overall he's a really cool dog, but he's not at all like my german shepherd. If you get one thinking they are the same you may be disappointed.
I guess I didn’t explain that very well on my first try, lol.
I don’t expect them to be like a GSD. Speaking strictly “trainability-wise”... I get the feeling (from what I’ve read) that they are easier to train, as long as it’s within their skill set. Like I can show Anatolians their boundaries and their herd whereas a Great Pyrenees are more apt to decide what they want to claim as their herd and try to decide their own boundaries. GPs seem more hard headed, more difficult to mold and shape their behavior... If that make sense.
But, that’s why i’m asking around for opinions and personal experiences. I could be way off in my assumptions! I have been reading as much as I can about them on the internet and that’s just the conclusion i’ve drawn from reading stories on the internet. | |
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Livestock Guardian Dogs