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 Expert
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| When you start one on the pattern do you do large circles around the barrels for a while or do you just keep it tight? |
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Regular
Posts: 82
| I don’t get them right on top of the barrel or way out wide, just a comfortable 2 feet or so off the barrel so they can learn to shape and get around it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| I take mine to the exact same place I would expect them to go at full speed. Once they are pattered and running you can make adjustments for specific horses and their needs. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | scwebster - 2018-11-27 9:48 AM
When you start one on the pattern do you do large circles around the barrels for a while or do you just keep it tight?
I train like I run, why fix what aint broke has worked very well for me.
I leave the drills for if I have a problem. |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | When I’m patterning, I go to my exact spots where I want them. You should be able to use your legs to push one in or out though if they start crowding or fading out when adding speed. |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| Thanks for the responses. Sometimes I see folks doing the big circles but I personally have just kept mine the same size as I would if running. I have had a couple take a little more time to find the right feet placement around their turns so I thought "maybe that is some of the reasoning behind larger circles".. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I think some people use big circles around the barrels just to have a marker for "perfect" circles. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but for me, I want the barrel to be a part of the pattern. I lope around other things for larger circles.
I DO lope around them (like in a large circle around all 3) and through them just so my ponies know that they are only turning them when asked ON the pattern. If they aren't aimed, they shouldn't want to dive them anyways. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Nateracer - 2018-11-27 11:16 AM
I think some people use big circles around the barrels just to have a marker for "perfect" circles. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but for me, I want the barrel to be a part of the pattern. I lope around other things for larger circles.
I DO lope around them (like in a large circle around all 3) and through them just so my ponies know that they are only turning them when asked ON the pattern. If they aren't aimed, they shouldn't want to dive them anyways.
This
I’ll lope big circles around them as marker points when I’m warming up, all in the same direction around the arena.
If I go to the top of the alley and work the actual pattern, I keep it dialed in reasonably. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| No
Put em where they need to be and teach them to stand up under themselves and not lean. |
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Veteran
Posts: 269
| I'll be the odd one out here....When I start one on the pattern, I make a larger circle then I would in a run. For one, its so much easier for them to do at a slow lope. Its much easier to keep that forward motion going and keep them driving and going all the way around and not getting hung up anywhere. Also, when I add speed its way easier to bring them in closer then it is push them out. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| iheartrodeo - 2018-11-28 8:21 AM I'll be the odd one out here....When I start one on the pattern, I make a larger circle then I would in a run. For one, its so much easier for them to do at a slow lope. Its much easier to keep that forward motion going and keep them driving and going all the way around and not getting hung up anywhere. Also, when I add speed its way easier to bring them in closer then it is push them out.
There is a difference between circle sizes though. When I'm talking aiming them at a barrel, I try to keep about a distance of about 3-5 feet off going slow, maybe a hair wider at a lope. But some people do 10-12 feet and the horse doesn't even know what they're looking at. I don't think you need to hug them slow...because yes, you're right...it's much harder to move them off at speed than it is to bring them in. |
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Veteran
Posts: 269
| Nateracer - 2018-11-28 8:39 AM
iheartrodeo - 2018-11-28 8:21 AM I'll be the odd one out here....When I start one on the pattern, I make a larger circle then I would in a run. For one, its so much easier for them to do at a slow lope. Its much easier to keep that forward motion going and keep them driving and going all the way around and not getting hung up anywhere. Also, when I add speed its way easier to bring them in closer then it is push them out.
There is a difference between circle sizes though. When I'm talking aiming them at a barrel, I try to keep about a distance of about 3-5 feet off going slow, maybe a hair wider at a lope. But some people do 10-12 feet and the horse doesn't even know what they're looking at. I don't think you need to hug them slow...because yes, you're right...it's much harder to move them off at speed than it is to bring them in.
I'd say I start out 8-10 feet away. I dont really know Pete Oen's whole training philosophy, but I remembered seeing some for sale videos of his where he was loping through with some good sized circles so i pulled one. https://youtu.be/p5ByfWjq6-MAt the end of this video he lopes thru big and then tighter. This is big to me anyway. I cant think of a trainer off hand that starts them really tight. I know it works for some. I just know personally i would have a hard time keeping them moving through the turn. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| I think it is interesting tho how may people don't give enough room going slow. Loping in exhibition their horse is right on top of the barrel... Normally knocking/bumping pop up barrels just loping... In turn the horse is forced to swing their hip, dump on their front end and stall because they don't have enough room to comfortably lope around the barrel and keep forward motion driving with their hind. When going slow I give 8 to 6 feet. Going faster they take that room away and it ends up 3 to 4 feet. A little more room going slow offers the ability to teach fluid forward motion in a turn in my head. The room goes away the faster your go... |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | LOL don't get me started on what you see in exhibitions!
It's funny how many ways there are to train a colt. I love reading about everyone's methods! You are never to smart to learn!!
For me starting one by loping slow bigger circles makes them more prone to gearing down in a turn and losing forward motion. Most "exhibitions" I see doing these bigger circles are in-hand. Horses lean into pressure. They learn to move into this pressure teaching them to lean in and eat up the turn room when faster. Its not just a big slow circle, its everything else involved in making that big circle... hands, seat, legs, pressure.... that either teaches one what you hope you are teaching them or teaches them just the opposite. Ask 10 riders to lope circles around a cone you’ll get 10 different ways!!
Bigger slower circles seem to undermine them getting underneath themselves or using their body the way I WANT them to during a turn. If I do my job and prepare them for the pattern with confident consistent repetition then they don't close up their turn room with speed. They have been allowed to make decisions for themselves while getting ready to be patterned and not disciplined if they make a wrong decision. This transfers to their decisions on the pattern.
Maybe some people teach a horse how to turn as they pattern them. Mine are loping thru after a few days on pattern. Might be the difference in my way of thinking about starting one.
Edited by geronabean 2018-11-28 1:53 PM
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| I'm no longer a professional rider, but I have trained several in my lifetime. I always started them walking and trotting a maybe 2 foot wider pattern than what I want at a run. No wider. I watched a person train by walk/trotting large circles and the horse cannot run a pattern worth a poop. There was no comprehension of set up or momentum carry thru with the large circles and the horse never learned how to do either at a run.
You can half-halt, round and accelerate out of the turn all while walking or trotting a perfect pattern. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| iheartrodeo - 2018-11-28 9:35 AM Nateracer - 2018-11-28 8:39 AM iheartrodeo - 2018-11-28 8:21 AM I'll be the odd one out here....When I start one on the pattern, I make a larger circle then I would in a run. For one, its so much easier for them to do at a slow lope. Its much easier to keep that forward motion going and keep them driving and going all the way around and not getting hung up anywhere. Also, when I add speed its way easier to bring them in closer then it is push them out. There is a difference between circle sizes though. When I'm talking aiming them at a barrel, I try to keep about a distance of about 3-5 feet off going slow, maybe a hair wider at a lope. But some people do 10-12 feet and the horse doesn't even know what they're looking at. I don't think you need to hug them slow...because yes, you're right...it's much harder to move them off at speed than it is to bring them in. I'd say I start out 8-10 feet away. I dont really know Pete Oen's whole training philosophy, but I remembered seeing some for sale videos of his where he was loping through with some good sized circles so i pulled one. https://youtu.be/p5ByfWjq6-MAt the end of this video he lopes thru big and then tighter. This is big to me anyway. I cant think of a trainer off hand that starts them really tight. I know it works for some. I just know personally i would have a hard time keeping them moving through the turn.
That video is pretty much what I've been doing.
It's hard to figure distance on a computer when it's been a month since you've rode!LOL
His first lope thru seemed reasonable, maybe just a little wider than I prefer, I like the trotting distance he used. Basically the lope through was about a horse length away from the barrel - 10-12 feet. I can see where my 10-12 feet was off a lot.
Prob should have said 2 horse lengths or wider. Might as well not have a barrel in the middle at that point.
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Most horses starting the pattern dont have enough muscle to lope a large or small circle. Through trial and error and age. I no longer pattern a horse. I look for the longest dirt road and pick up a lead and canter and hand gallop mixing it up, pick up the other lead on the way back. While cooling down I work on side passing and counter arcing. no more circles for me... I be "square"
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 Member
Posts: 24
| When I start mine, I usually give them a slightly larger pocket (5 or 6 feet), and heavily emphasize that they get tight on the backside.
I feel like it helps keep green horses from shutting down their feet when you ask them to turn and just makes it smoother when they're learning. It also helps me get them really tight on the backside, which is a habit I build from day one.
After they can run with a bigger pocket, I start to tighten it up.
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Pattern starting, big circles or no?