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| Has anyone else noticed this trend going on especially in the barrel horse industry that if you were ever connected to a well known person in the industry or if you can afford to go get a place with stalls and an arena ..all of a sudden you are a solidified barrel horse trainer/broker and clinician? |
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I just read the headlines
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| To me it’s always been this way. Maybe it’s more noticeable with social media being so prevalent today. |
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| GLP - 2018-12-14 11:43 AM To me it’s always been this way. Maybe it’s more noticeable with social media being so prevalent today.
Good point. I think you are right. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | I haven't noticed this.
Who are speaking of directly?
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| 1DSoon - 2018-12-14 11:51 AM I haven't noticed this.
Who are speaking of directly?
No one person in particular. Just seems to be something I come across often. Everyone starts somewhere but I just feel that you should have some credentials at least under your belt before you ask people to spend a premium on your time or services.
Edited by scwebster 2018-12-14 12:03 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Not a trend, this has been going on for ever, lol.. Like GLP said that now theres social media you just see it alot more..  |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | scwebster - 2018-12-14 12:56 PM 1DSoon - 2018-12-14 11:51 AM I haven't noticed this.
Who are speaking of directly?
No one person in particular. Just seems to be something I come across often. Everyone starts somewhere but I just feel that you should have some credentials at least under your belt before you ask people to spend a premium on your time or services.
Like who?
I want to make sure I avoid these types.
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| 1DSoon - 2018-12-14 12:16 PM scwebster - 2018-12-14 12:56 PM 1DSoon - 2018-12-14 11:51 AM I haven't noticed this.
Who are speaking of directly?
No one person in particular. Just seems to be something I come across often. Everyone starts somewhere but I just feel that you should have some credentials at least under your belt before you ask people to spend a premium on your time or services.
I want to make sure I avoid these types.
HAA you know better, you just want the details. Take a look around on social media. You'll find em. Last example I saw was an ex pal of someone who's name we do not speak here.
Edited by scwebster 2018-12-14 12:56 PM
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Location: Missouri | Lawd yes. I have noticed this quite a bit more lately, but I honestly think it's just because people have much more easy exposure due to social media.
But yes, if I'm paying money for someones services, I go to someone with a list of credentials OR someone who I know very well that I know is a good hand and maybe doesn't advertise themselves as much. |
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| MOGirl07 - 2018-12-14 1:12 PM Lawd yes. I have noticed this quite a bit more lately, but I honestly think it's just because people have much more easy exposure due to social media. But yes, if I'm paying money for someones services, I go to someone with a list of credentials OR someone who I know very well that I know is a good hand and maybe doesn't advertise themselves as much.
Exactly :) |
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| scwebster - 2018-12-14 11:18 AM
MOGirl07 - 2018-12-14 1:12 PM Lawd yes. I have noticed this quite a bit more lately, but I honestly think it's just because people have much more easy exposure due to social media. But yes, if I'm paying money for someones services, I go to someone with a list of credentials OR someone who I know very well that I know is a good hand and maybe doesn't advertise themselves as much.
Exactly :)
My experience has been, the nicer the physical facility or rig, the less they know. Lol. It’s scary that someone who is new to the sport may see this and think they are using the best when it’s far from the truth. Lol |
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| FLITASTIC - 2018-12-14 3:22 PM
scwebster - 2018-12-14 11:18 AM
MOGirl07 - 2018-12-14 1:12 PM Lawd yes. I have noticed this quite a bit more lately, but I honestly think it's just because people have much more easy exposure due to social media. But yes, if I'm paying money for someones services, I go to someone with a list of credentials OR someone who I know very well that I know is a good hand and maybe doesn't advertise themselves as much.
Exactly :)
My experience has been, the nicer the physical facility or rig, the less they know. Lol. It’s scary that someone who is new to the sport may see this and think they are using the best when it’s far from the truth. Lol
This is very true! These kind of people have been around forever.. they pry on the newcomers.
I have learned that lot and lot of people think they are trainers.
I am a third generation horsewomen in my family been riding since I could walk which is 30 years now and I am no trainer.
Edited by bbennington 2018-12-14 5:03 PM
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| Just show up to a jackpot with a 6 horse and people assume you must be a trainer! See this too often as well. |
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| I like when people buy a 12yo been there and won that type horse and put their brand on it like they actually done something to make the horse what it is. |
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Location: Bastrop, Texas | “Just show up to a jackpot with a 6 horse and people assume you must be a trainer! See this too often as well.”
I’m scratching my head trying to figure out this thread.
If someone is so gullible as to be impressed with someone’s training skills, based on the size of that person’s trailer, then they deserve the ripoff that will be inevitably awaiting them.
A corollary to that kind of logic would be to belittle some older woman for hauling to jackpots with a 2 horse trailer behind an old beat up ambulance. Surely she can’t be very good.
Edited by Bear 2018-12-19 1:37 PM
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I just read the headlines
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| joemama - 2018-12-14 6:08 PM
I like when people buy a 12yo been there and won that type horse and put their brand on it like they actually done something to make the horse what it is.
Not all who put a brand on a horse they didn’t train do it to make people think they trained it. I know for a while around here some good horses were stolen. A brand would help get that horse back. |
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Location: wherever my gypsy soul lands | I saw someone post on FB one day last week asking about interest in attending a clinic along with a couple videos.....and the very first comment was are you giving the clinic or wanting to attend? Don't get me wrong, I'm so far from a pro...most days far from an amateur  but I was completely baffled that the person making the post would be willing to teach others. And there were quite a few people that were saying they were interested. In the videos the rider had like a...20 ft (maybe?) pocket. I actually thought at first the horse was going to turn up the fence. I just wanted to comment on it and tell those that were interested to spend the money to attend a clinic of someone with CREDENTIALS and VERIFIABLE WINNINGS, maybe even someone who is a coach. I think, and I really hate using this term but..., backyard trainers are getting out of hand with Social Media being so prevalent. But please don't kill me (the messenger) for just being honest. I mean no offense to anyone, really. |
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
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Location: North MS | I know exactly what this thread is about. I saw the advertisement on instagram and was like... oh that would be fun. Saw the price and did a quick backstep. $500 !!!! I could go get some time with Ron Ralls for that.
For those wondering who- the individuals first name is similar to the adult movie industry star involved in a lawsuit with a politician now- maybe President Trump. I'm more up to date with NFR than regular news though. |
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| Just a couple observations from experience and observation. Usually the big name "trainer" isn't riding your horse anyway an intern or hired hand is, they only get on when you show up to watch. There are plenty of people with "credentials" I'd never send one of my horses to bc I've seen what winning looks like behind the scenes
Edited by iloveequine40 2018-12-15 5:44 PM
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I just read the headlines
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| iloveequine40 - 2018-12-15 5:43 PM
Just a couple observations from experience and observation. Usually the big name "trainer" isn't riding your horse anyway an intern or hired hand is, they only get on when you show up to watch. There are plenty of people with "credentials" I'd never send one of my horses to bc I've seen what winning looks like behind the scenes
I have a friend who showed pleasure horses in the AQHA shows. She had friends who used a VERY well known trainer who had won the World multiple times. The number of horses he ruined/abused would make your hair curl, and not in pretty curls either! I was shocked. |
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| I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh.
But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them. |
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| Meep.Meep - 2018-12-15 6:35 PM
I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh.
But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them.
That. There’s a lot of clinicians with household names I wouldn’t spend my hard earned money on. There’s likely a lot of really good horseman and women out there we’ve never heard of who are hands and have a lot to teach.
If that’s what someone wants to spend their money on, it’s their money to spend - no judgement needed really. |
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| Meep.Meep - 2018-12-15 6:35 PM I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh. But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them.
Some of the best horseman I’ve seen or known apprenticed or worked under a well known name or program. I def wasn’t grouping these folks into the trend although my description was pretty broad. I guess what I was really meaning is I am seeing some out there who have not accomplished much of anything but are charging a premium similar to those that have. Maybe just because they are Instagram famous. I figure it’s a slap in the face to those who have paid their dues and come up through the ranks the old fashioned way. I guess if people are willing pay it, all the power to them.
Edited by scwebster 2018-12-16 10:09 AM
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| bluerose2001 - 2018-12-14 11:18 PM
I know exactly what this thread is about. I saw the advertisement on instagram and was like... oh that would be fun. Saw the price and did a quick backstep. $500 !!!! I could go get some time with Ron Ralls for that.
For those wondering who- the individuals first name is similar to the adult movie industry star involved in a lawsuit with a politician now- maybe President Trump. I'm more up to date with NFR than regular news though.
That’s a perfect example! :) |
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A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | scwebster - 2018-12-16 10:06 AM Meep.Meep - 2018-12-15 6:35 PM I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh. But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them. Some of the best horseman I’ve seen or known apprenticed or worked under a well known name or program. I def wasn’t grouping these folks into the trend although my description was pretty broad. I guess what I was really meaning is I am seeing some out there who have not accomplished much of anything but are charging a premium similar to those that have. Maybe just because they are Instagram famous. I figure it’s a slap in the face to those who have paid their dues and come up through the ranks the old fashioned way. I guess if people are willing pay it, all the power to them.
I understand what you are saying, just because they hit the 1D a few times they become a expert. And their heads get to big for their own good and the ones that dont know any better think they hung the moon, lol.... Knew a few of these in my life time  |
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| scwebster - 2018-12-16 10:06 AM
Meep.Meep - 2018-12-15 6:35 PM I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh. But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them.
Some of the best horseman I’ve seen or known apprenticed or worked under a well known name or program. I def wasn’t grouping these folks into the trend although my description was pretty broad. I guess what I was really meaning is I am seeing some out there who have not accomplished much of anything but are charging a premium similar to those that have. Maybe just because they are Instagram famous. I figure it’s a slap in the face to those who have paid their dues and come up through the ranks the old fashioned way. I guess if people are willing pay it, all the power to them.
Sorry, I was commenting on iloveequine40's post. I knew what you are getting at. |
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| Meep.Meep - 2018-12-16 10:45 AM scwebster - 2018-12-16 10:06 AM Meep.Meep - 2018-12-15 6:35 PM I know a few people, myself included, who trained well known trainer's clients horses when we worked for them. The horses go home and are branded "Trained by so and so" when they may have never even thrown a leg over them....You just got to laugh. But I got to say, if someone wants to pay for a clinic, lessons, training from someone another deems "unqualified" that is their choice. There are a lot of good people to learn from out there that if you asked the wrong person they might steer you away from them. Some of the best horseman I’ve seen or known apprenticed or worked under a well known name or program. I def wasn’t grouping these folks into the trend although my description was pretty broad. I guess what I was really meaning is I am seeing some out there who have not accomplished much of anything but are charging a premium similar to those that have. Maybe just because they are Instagram famous. I figure it’s a slap in the face to those who have paid their dues and come up through the ranks the old fashioned way. I guess if people are willing pay it, all the power to them. Sorry, I was commenting on iloveequine40's post. I knew what you are getting at.
:)
Edited by scwebster 2018-12-16 10:55 AM
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| My observation has been that, in general and across the board, the training of barrel horses would benefit tremendously from learning the centuries old techniques and truths of classical horsemanship. Forget the harsh quick fix headgear and actually learn and then train the biomechanics of say, balance, bending, engagement, lightness, going straight. After all, what is barrel racing but an exercise at speed of going straight and 3 pirouettes?! And I would add, asking these maneuvers of two and three year old horses is, well I was going to say inhumane, but minimally an ignorantly willful lack of concern for the animals’ long term usefulness and well being. |
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Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | Well said. |
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Location: Deep South | Bear - 2018-12-14 7:43 PM
“Just show up to a jackpot with a 6 horse and people assume you must be a trainer! See this too often as well.”
I’m scratching my head trying to figure out this thread.
If someone is so gullible as to be impressed with someone’s training skills, based on the size of that person’s trailer, then they deserve the ripoff that will be inevitably awaiting them.
A corollary to that kind of logic would be to belittle some older woman for hauling to jackpots with a 2 horse trailer behind an old beat up trailer. Surely she can’t be very good.
I completely agree. And would like to add that it's not just barrel racing. You can find this in any industry. For example my husband is in construction. He works for a company that's been around for a long time and has thousands of 5 star reviews/customer testimonials. They get calls often to come "fix" things that another contractor was hired to do. When you look into those contractors they just popped up in the last 6 months, have a couple reviews from their momma, and no proof of quality work. They just financed some nice equipment and created a Facebook page. It baffles me how much money people will pay someone that they haven't even taken 5 minutes to google. But like Bear said, they get what's coming to them. |
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Location: Illinois | bluerose2001 - 2018-12-14 11:18 PM
I know exactly what this thread is about. I saw the advertisement on instagram and was like... oh that would be fun. Saw the price and did a quick backstep. $500 !!!! I could go get some time with Ron Ralls for that.
For those wondering who- the individuals first name is similar to the adult movie industry star involved in a lawsuit with a politician now- maybe President Trump. I'm more up to date with NFR than regular news though.
We have a similar thing going on down the road this year with 2 clinics. For $415 you can learn from someone who, when the clinic was posted everyone asked "who's that?" Or you can pay $500 to learn from Ron. Seems like a no brainer to me |
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 Reaching for the stars....
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| You can learn something from anyone. No matter how inexperienced someone is they will have a different point of view that might help someone with something. Now would I spend good money to go to a clinic with someone that I didn't have the breadth of experience to teach a class of varying degrees of experienced riders? No.
I attended a pricey clinic several years ago. What I learned from this clinic is that teaching technique is very important. So many defend/ed this clinician for the rude delivery saying it was 'blunt,' or 'honest.' Let me tell you what 'blunt' and 'honest' did and did not do:
I don't mind hearing I'm not a great rider. Fine, fine, whatever, let's get to what you have to offer to help me be a better rider. So I got past the first rudeness still with an open mind. But then I posed a question about the rocket mare, who had started ducking the 2nd barrel just before this clinic. The clinician's response was, "well no wonder with you riding her!" OK, big problem there. I'd never swung a leg over the mare yet. My mind clicked off and there was no way I was going to be able to learn anything from someone who doesn't listen to the question. I had said in my question that the mare was with her trainer/rider. I packed up my stuff and went on home. I did not have thin skin, he was rude and disrespectful.
You cannot teach with negative feedback. Period. No matter the subject matter or mental state of the students.
IF I ever decide to part with money for a clinic the first thing that has to be established is a positive teaching method. No reason to waste good money on either negativity or non-directional instruction. I am a sponge, still in my middle age, love to learn, learn well and easily, can apply about 98% of instructions for horse stuff.
I would take a chance at a younger and less experienced positive reinforcing clinician over and older more experienced but negative clinician any day. I might learn something from the positive person, but negativity just shuts down the learning path. |
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| So, how is a youngster supposed to get their start?
I think training some 1d horses seems like a good starting place... |
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