MOGirl07 - 2019-01-23 1:03 PM

Anyone have a link for good factual info as to what the 3rd trimester abortion law that NY recently passed entails/allows? As usual, plenty of misinformation on fb these past few days and I want to know what it actually says.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 12:03 PM Anyone have a link for good factual info as to what the 3rd trimester abortion law that NY recently passed entails/allows? As usual, plenty of misinformation on fb these past few days and I want to know what it actually says.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-24 12:50 PM


I don't know how to link...

but if you Google "actual ny new abortion law"...

The very first article under Syracuse.com is a very comprehensive article that gives the changes and has a place within to see the actual bill. There are many more articles, but this is probably one of the best.

It is probably the most exspansive abortion law in the country. It also protects or removes any criminality if Roe v. Wade is overturned.

The Dems have been trying to get this for over a decade. The State Legislature just went all Democrat and this was a priority to them.

Elitist Idiots.  



 

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 1:08 PM It sounds to me like the verbiage for the health of the mother is pretty vague and could mean a lot of things (read: loopholes). A lot of libs on my fb freaking out today that conservatives are so upset about this and I would like to have a better understanding of it before responding yo anyone. I will wade thru the links/suggestions you all sent....thanks a bunch!

Gator Bug - 2019-01-24 1:16 PM


This law will have consequences no doubt. I mean you abort legally for whatever reason up to 24 weeks!!! 

Another good Google is "Dr. Kermit Gosnell".

Nobody thinks another monster like him can't emerge under this Law?!!!
Yeh, right.

It is barbaric. 

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 1:19 PM He's exactly who I thought of. I had someone claim that no one would ever want an abortion at 8 months like no one Carrie's a baby that long then decides to kill it and I thought "you've obviously never heard of Gosnell's house of horrors."

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 1:10 PM How can a state do that....protect against criminality of the supreme court of the US were to overturn Roe v Wade? I really need to brush up on civics/government....is that even allowed?

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-24 1:24 PM Agree, I can understand a situation occurring that in order to save the mothers life they need to induce/deliver the baby but if it is at a stage that it is viable you don’t need to kill the baby to save the mothers life!  Deliver a live baby and still save the mother. Why does the baby need to be killed?   

Frodo - 2019-01-24 1:42 PM NY Gov. Cuomo celebrated this by lighting up the spike on top of the new World Trade Center pink.  I don't get it.
 

Frodo - 2019-01-24 1:42 PM

NY Gov. Cuomo celebrated this by lighting up the spike on top of the new World Trade Center pink.  I don't get it.
 

Gator Bug - 2019-01-24 2:27 PM

Believe me, the Dems in both state chambers are very happy and proud of themselves. The Dems just took over and did this first (along with some other 'pet' projects).

Cuomo has said in the recent past that if you are a Conservative, you are not welcome in the state and can move any time.

Just remember, Cuomo will probably run for President in 2020.

LIVE2RUN - 2019-01-24 2:29 PM Im not on either side of the abortion issue, however, the new law gives more freedom for women to choose what to do, I don't like the fact that the government gets involved in what's best for me and my body...I will decide, period......

Bear - 2019-01-24 12:40 PM

Liberals were excited at the notion of the Chinese claim they can get plant life to germinate on the dark side of the moon. That’s right....they celebrate the life of a plant.
Imagine the excitement if we were to discover a living bacterium on Mars. That discovery of “life” would be celebrated....a single celled organism would represent LIFE, and the potential of human beings to live on Mars when the world ends in 12 years, according to dingbat Democrat darling Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, because of climate change.

Meanwhile those of us here in “Peckerwood Nation” are not celebrating this glorification and liberalization of infanticide.

Bear - 2019-01-24 5:19 PM

I’m against the death penalty, but that being said, I’m astonished at how liberals are so concerned that lethal injection, as a form of capital punishment is considered cruel and unusual punishment for a mass murderer but totally unconcerned with killing a 28 month old baby with KCl, or simply ripping it out piecemeal, or pithing it like a frog to be dissected in biology class. You never hear them decry those barbaric, ghoulish, practices. What’s just as bad is the limp wristed so- called “conservatives” who are too scared to point out their hypocrisy.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 6:21 PM There a lot of hypocritical things about libs that I quite simply do not understand. This, most definitely, being one of them.

mtcanchazer - 2019-01-24 7:54 PM Okay, this is an area that touches me closely. Personally, no matter what the law is (and I think it is wrong, I also feel that this is not something that should not be legislated), how can we as women not see a 8 month old baby as a living child? Or even a 24 week old/6 month old baby as a living child? I'm not saying we shouldn't have reproductive rights. My personal belief is life begins at conception. But at this point in the game I'm afraid the government will come along and try to say when life does in fact begin and then it will put a whole other dog in the fight. 

Bear - 2019-01-24 9:58 PM .

Frodo - 2019-01-24 8:00 PM

If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants.  The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.

 

Gator Bug - 2019-01-24 7:37 PM
I agree...this touches me closely as well. I've been reluctant so far to say what I am going say. 

I have always been a Conservative. I guess the kind where they say 'conservative fiscally and a little lighter on social issues'. At that time, I was like that for abortion and pro-choice - with the caveat if the abortion was done early, like before 6-8 weeks, maybe even 12 weeks. I was like this from the early 80's until about 2012-13. That was when the gruesome, horrendous details of the impending Gosnell Trial started to come to light. 

Back when, I was not of the 'conception' theory. If an abortion was done in 6-8 weeks, it was nothing. However, when the details started to come out about Gosnell doing suction/drug abortion methods on babies within the 24 weeks PA Law and aftter, that was repulsive enough. These were same type of babies at gestation that IF people would want them, would spend thousands of dollars trying to save! They were viable!

I had my 'pivot point' or 'ahh-haa' moment during that Gosnell trial. What is a baby? I had to be logical. Is it not a baby at 23-1/2 weeks and stay under that 24 week abortion limit?  No, that's not right. Is 12 weeks ok? No. I just drove myself nuts, turning my previously held opinion on its head. 

At that point, when I kept backing up the time frame...the only that made sense was the point of conception. At the point of conception, exactly what else will it end up being but a human baby? A Buick? I don't think so.

That Gosnell trial got to and through to me more than any protestor on either side of the abortion issue could have ever done. However, I had to have my 'pivot point' and critically think very hard. 

I followed that Trial extremely close. It was gruesome and awful. But, it did make me actually think logically and go through it by detail/timing.

If you don't think something like that Gosnell Trial can happen again on that scale or a bigger one based on how this NY Law is written...you are sadly mistaken. 

I hope that all made sense.

ETA...I never had kids/babies, didn't really want them (too selfish with horses). However, found out in my late 30's that I never would have been able to.

NJJ - 2019-01-25 9:54 AM

FOX NEWS ..........
Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.

I am more concerned with the phrase .... "non-doctor" !!!!
I want to believe that doctor's would have more integrity regarding the TRUE issue of the woman's health or fetus viability before performing an abortion. 

Bear - 2019-01-25 10:27 AM They are referring to mid level providers, like PA’s and NP’s. For the most part, mid level providers can be trained to do a lot of straightforward procedures. I don’t have a problem with that. I could teach a janitor to do some operations. Where I have a problem is when they encounter serious complications that requires experience and sufficient training to recognize and treat.....all in a timely manner. The last time I looked up indications/reasons for late term abortion I saw a wide array of reasons cited. Things like: stress, depression, anxiety, financial hardships, breakups, etc.... You don’t have to have a lot of imagination to see where many of these excuses/reasons will morph under the category of “health risk to the mother”....ie: mental health-depression-anxiety. Things like that will be easy to “document”.

Frodo - 2019-01-24 6:00 PM

If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants.  The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.

 

OregonBR - 2019-01-25 11:11 AM This ^^^^ The liberals are sick people. Evil. This makes me sick. The inhumanity of it. I have always been about choice. But not that. Never that. Here's what I found out last year when Kavenaugh was in the confirmation process. I wanted to know why the heck the left was so insane about trying to stop him. Personally I don't think they would have behaved any different had the nominee been any conservative man. IF there is a majority conservative SCOTUS they are worried they might overturn Roe v Wade and they think that means there will be no legal abortions. They are trying to get ahead of that. What they don't know (apparently) is that if that happens, it's kicked back to the states to decide. I don't know why they can't read and research just like I did. But they don't. All the insanity is just their first go to. Get ready for the next circus when they find out RBG isn't coming back to the SCOTUS. They are going to lose their minds again. In fact, the top (rumored) prospect is a devout Catholic woman. So what they just did to those boys from the Catholic church school is them trying to get ahead of Trumps nominee if it happens to be Amy Coney Barrett. Mark my words.

Bear - 2019-01-25 12:22 PM Amy Barrett is the liberal’s biggest nightmare. Bright, beautiful, intelligent, unashamedly devout Christian, and a woman. They will go to great lengths to destroy her by any means possible. My guess is they will get the pope to admit she molested him.

Bear - 2019-01-24 11:00 PM This is my oldest daughter, Leslie. When her mother and I were engaged, I was 19, and she was 17. Her parents refused to support our decision to get married, understandably, but we were too determined....and too stupid. We had to wait until her mother was 18, so we set date for about 4-5 months after her 18th birthday. As fate would have it, we found out Leslie's mother was pregnant about a month before her 18th birthday. To avoid embarrassment, she wanted to have an abortion. Also, her mom was a very good student and had career aspirations of her own, and having a baby while trying to get through college was going to be a challenge. Realize I was a very naive, foolish, idealistic, stubborn young man at the time as well. For some reason, in this particular instance, my better judgement prevailed. I strongly opposed the notion of an abortion. Something in me could not allow me to justify it. We fought like cats and dogs over it, until one day I told her that if she had an abortion, I would not marry her. I know...it almost sounds a little bass ackwards, but that's how it went. She got mad at me and threw her engagement ring down the street and drove away. I searched for the ring and found it and a day later she came back to me, and I asked her again on bended knee. This time, she decided to keep the baby. Wherever I went, Leslie was usually perched on my shoulders until she became too big....then she just clung to my hand. About 13 years later we ended up divorcing, but I ended up with custody of our kids, so I raised them as a single parent. Leslie is different from the other two in a couple ways. One is that because I was only 20 when she was born, in some ways we were oddly almost like siblings. She stole my sweaters, my car, my ice cream, etc... When she tried out for cheerleading, I was there...along with about 30 moms. When she broke up with her boyfriend in college, I was the one whose shoulder she cried on. When she ever had a dilemma or question about anything, I was the one she called first. When I made rounds at the hospital, she often went along with me and chatted with the nurses. I guess they all thought it was cute, or something like that. Sometimes she would call me and I could tell she needed some time with her dad, so I would have her come home and make her favorite meal....prime rib. Afterwards, we'd watch a movie, and the next day her batteries would be charged and she would return to work or school the next day. What I'm trying to say is that I love all my kids very dearly. They are all uniquely special for different reasons. With Leslie she was and remains my special first born baby girl. When Leslie was screwing up during her first year of college, I gave her an ultimatum. Either she get a minimum of a B average, or I would no longer pay for her room, board, and tuition. She didn't take me seriously, so I gave her one last option....return home, get a job, and pay for all her own expenses for 6 months. She quickly realized that life as a dress shop clerk was not going to cut it for her. She returned to college, but I made her take out a loan for some of her tuition and books. This time around she got straight A's. The photo was taken when she was married, about 12 years ago. She and her husband, Mike, have blessed me with 2 beautiful grandchildren. Leslie is a VP for Wells Fargo, and they live in Minneapolis. She could have been an abortion. I shudder to think of the ripple effect....no memories, no grandkids, nothing.

OregonBR - 2019-01-25 1:01 PM It will be brutal and the GOP has the majority in the Senate. However, you still have to contend with the RINO's like that traitor Romney. I'm starting to REALLY dislike him.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-25 11:17 AM



Yes, we would to deal with 'RINO Romney'. He is just a hypocrite 'Never Trump' hater. BUT...he took Trump's endorsement when he was running BOTH for the Senate and President. He is nothing but a big hypocrite. 

However, I do not believe he is on the Judiciary Committee. I think Josh Hawley  took Flake's place. So, it should get out of Committee. That's the big part. And yes, Romney would be an issue in the Final Senate vote. However, since we picked a couple Senators, we only have to have 51. I think we have 53(?) Republicans plus the VP to break a tie. The margin is not as slim as it was with Kavanaugh. 

I do not think the Dems could stop it. Can they be nasty in the Hearings? Yes. But, other than that, I don't think there is much they can do to stop it. 

OregonBR - 2019-01-25 1:23 PM He is not on the judiciary. However the judiciary votes to pass the candidate to the senate and the senate as a whole votes. That's where the RINO issue comes in. We need 50 votes. Then Pence is the tiebreaker.

OregonBR - 2019-01-25 1:25 PM Romney is not the only RINO. There are 6 that broke party lines. I can forecast they will break party lines again. Hope not. But if they would side with the dems on that, why not the SCOTUS?

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-26 7:14 PM

Graphic video of late term abortion.  No words,  simply horrific and nothing justifies this, no we have to accept it for women’s right, there is absolutely no need to kill a baby, nothing.  Where is our humanity

 https://vimeo.com/104477983?ref=fb-share

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-26 9:21 PM


I'll take your word for it on the video. I can't stomach it. Someone shared photos of babies that had been aborted on fb and I literally felt ill seeing them. I will never understand it.

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-26 7:14 PM

Graphic video of late term abortion.  No words,  simply horrific and nothing justifies this, no we have to accept it for women’s right, there is absolutely no need to kill a baby, nothing.  Where is our humanity

 https://vimeo.com/104477983?ref=fb-share

Bear - 2019-01-27 12:05 PM I’ve seen just about everything imaginable when it comes to human medicine. I could make a list of some of the ugliest, most horrific things that would make a grown man vomit. I’ve seen rotten, decaying corpses, mutilated beheaded bodies, and people’s blackened charred remains....but I’ve never seen anything more gruesome and horrific than this video. This, to me, is just as ugly as anything ISIS has done. In fact, this is worse, because now it’s legal and celebrated. Heimlich Himmler and Adolf Hitler would be proud. This is what the most Blue state in the Union is celebrating.

OhMax - 2019-01-27 2:36 PM I struggle with this. Hear me out. I am pro life - pro my life, pro my future babies lives. I know people personally who have been told their babies are not compatible with life and they have to make the worst decision any parent may have to make. I know of folks who have gone both directions - I don’t judge them, not my decision and I hope never a decision I have to make. I’m not talking about someone who has a perfectly healthy pregnancy at 30 weeks deciding they just don’t feel like it anymore. I can’t comprehend that, I’m just not able to. The people I’m talking about are people who have struggled to get pregnant, suffered miscarriages, truly loved the child they had to make a decision about. I actually have a ton of respect for them for just making it to the next day. I struggle with a lot of aspects, including the non doctor bit. I struggle with the vague definition of the mother’s wellbeing. I have no doubt it will find it’s way into the court system. I do not believe you can legislate morality into or out of a population. Morality is deeper than elected officials, it’s what is in the core of all of us. Legislation is reflective of the moral compass of the larger group (please note I think the elected official that my particular district has chosen to put into office is a blooming idiot). To a moral person legislation like this has no bearing on their life as they wouldn’t choose to act within the boundaries of it. To an immoral person, they will find a way - legal or not. I really struggle with the moral direction of the country.

Bear - 2019-01-27 12:05 PM


I’ve seen just about everything imaginable when it comes to human medicine. I could make a list of some of the ugliest, most horrific things that would make a grown man vomit. I’ve seen rotten, decaying corpses, mutilated beheaded bodies, and people’s blackened charred remains....but I’ve never seen anything more gruesome and horrific than this video.
This, to me, is just as ugly as anything ISIS has done. In fact, this is worse, because now it’s legal and celebrated. Heimlich Himmler and Adolf Hitler would be proud.

This is what the most Blue state in the Union is celebrating.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-27 3:02 PM


I hear you. Did you watch the video? I have known couples that had dead babies (twins) in their womb and had to go through delivery and a stillborn birth at 5 months. Named them and had to bury them. That is NOT what this NY Law is about. 

If you are talking about 'not compatible with life' at 4-5 months meaning Down Syndrome...That already happens under current law. I know of a couple that terminated at 4 months due to this actually in NY. They have to live with and answer for their decision.

This 'new' Law allows for abortion up to birth for the 'health of the mother'... Which can mean mental, emotional and/or financial stress, etc., etc...pick your reason. It can be anything a doctor/non-doctor can justify and they will. AND...with the criminality removed, they can justify anything and not be prosecuted in ANY case. Gosnell couldn't be prosecuted under this 'new' Law. This 'new' Law is nothing but 'on demand abortion'...at questionable facilities no less.

This 'new' and 'progressive' Law has been extremely vague on purpose and for reason.

However, don't kill a pregnant woman in NY (at any trimester) as you will have two murder felonies charged against you. Just how 'jacked up' is that?

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-28 9:48 AM Gator Bug, yes. THIS is what I kept trying to argue to the liberals having a fit on FB bc conservatives are upset about this incredibly vague new law. This article puts into pretty plain language that what libs are touting about this paw is pretty much garbage and a bunch of lies. https://www.liveaction.org/news/four-myths-new-york-abortion-truth/[...

I read the article and it did break the Law down into plain English. Fox and Friends had Dr. Hamada and Cardinal Dolan on this morning. Dr. Hamada explained everything that was in that article. Cardinal Dolan also said that in years past when they have met with Pro-Chiice groups, it has been amicable and discussions on making abortions safe and rare. He said that all has pretty much went out the window now...abortion will not safe and they won't be rare.

As it has been said, Gosnell could do what he did without any prosecution in NY now. I think it was the Cardinal that said if the baby is born alive during an abortion, no medical attention to the baby has to rendere and can be terminated then. Just what Gosnell did. And unfortunately this can be done up until birth if the abortion professional can 'justify' it under any of the ridiculous reasons.

God help us. What are we turning into as a society?

I bet you didn't have much luck with the Libs on FB, did ya? I doubt most of them even know all the details and ramifications of this Law.

Edited by Gator Bug 2019-01-28 11:10 AM

Gator Bug - 2019-01-28 11:06 AM


Of course I didn't get anywhere with them and I was treated like a moron because "no one just carries a baby for 8 mos and decides they dont want it. Smh." And "this law is to protect women put in impossible situations" and insinuating conservatives are making up crap about loopholes. I didn't have the energy to argue with people who don't want to see it for what it is.

I had shared a post to my fb. And deleted it bc a very liberal family member doesnt know when to just keep scrolling. She has been added to a group of friends I created when I don't want them to see certain things I post....meaning political things. If you can't respect that I can post whatever the heck I want to my own wall then I'll keep you from seeing it. Plain and simple.

And yeah. Clearly these people have NEVER read about the atrocities Gosnell committed. There's nothing in place now to keep another monster like this from resurfacing.



Edited by MOGirl07 2019-01-28 1:35 PM

Bear - 2019-01-28 11:53 AM Apparently, the claim by the NY law is that abortions beyond 24 weeks gestation until birth can only be performed in cases of severe fetal defects or the “health of the mother”. Therein lies the secret to promoting this barbaric ghoulish practice. “Mental health” is the catch-all phrase that will justify aborting late term babies....stress, anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc.... It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see how abortionists can confabulated and craft a legally acceptable indication. L The Guttmacher Institute is a pro-choice organization that has studied this quite extensively.....again, they are pro choice. Here is the breakdown of reasons why women opt for a late term abortion: 71% — Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation 48% — Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion 33% — Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents 24% — Woman took time to decide to have an abortion 8% — Woman waited for her relationship to change 8% — Someone pressured woman not to have abortion 6% — Something changed after woman became pregnant 6% — Woman didn’t know timing is important 5% — Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion 2% — A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy 11% — Other So in this study, it boils down to ignorance, stupidity, poor planning, and relationship issues. Maternal physical health and “fetal problems” make up a very small percentage. The abortionists will cleverly mold these into mental health indications, under the heading of “health of the mother”. The good news is that most of the bigger, more advanced babies won’t have to be ripped out piecemeal while they cry out in the womb and squirm in agony. Medicine has advanced so these medieval, brutal methods might only be occasionally performed. They can train a mid level provider to push a large-bore needle through the baby’s skull into the brain, where they can inject lethal doses of digoxin into the brain. Pretty painless for mommy. She can go home, go shopping, smoke some weed, or join her friends at the bar to celebrate the event. After a day of waiting for the baby to slowly die in his/her womb, the mommy can return to have the baby delivered/removed/extracted piecemeal. Usually it’s a much more streamlined extermination, thanks to the wonders of modern Infanticidology.

Bear - 2019-01-28 12:53 PM Apparently, the claim by the NY law is that abortions beyond 24 weeks gestation until birth can only be performed in cases of severe fetal defects or the “health of the mother”. Therein lies the secret to promoting this barbaric ghoulish practice. “Mental health” is the catch-all phrase that will justify aborting late term babies....stress, anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc.... It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see how abortionists can confabulated and craft a legally acceptable indication. L The Guttmacher Institute is a pro-choice organization that has studied this quite extensively.....again, they are pro choice. Here is the breakdown of reasons why women opt for a late term abortion: 71% — Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation 48% — Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion 33% — Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents 24% — Woman took time to decide to have an abortion 8% — Woman waited for her relationship to change 8% — Someone pressured woman not to have abortion 6% — Something changed after woman became pregnant 6% — Woman didn’t know timing is important 5% — Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion 2% — A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy 11% — Other So in this study, it boils down to ignorance, stupidity, poor planning, and relationship issues. Maternal physical health and “fetal problems” make up a very small percentage. The abortionists will cleverly mold these into mental health indications, under the heading of “health of the mother”. The good news is that most of the bigger, more advanced babies won’t have to be ripped out piecemeal while they cry out in the womb and squirm in agony. Medicine has advanced so these medieval, brutal methods might only be occasionally performed. They can train a mid level provider to push a large-bore needle through the baby’s skull into the brain, where they can inject lethal doses of digoxin into the brain. Pretty painless for mommy. She can go home, go shopping, smoke some weed, or join her friends at the bar to celebrate the event. After a day of waiting for the baby to slowly die in his/her womb, the mommy can return to have the baby delivered/removed/extracted piecemeal. Usually it’s a much more streamlined extermination, thanks to the wonders of modern Infanticidology.

Bear - 2019-01-28 12:53 PM

Apparently, the claim by the NY law is that abortions beyond 24 weeks gestation until birth can only be performed in cases of severe fetal defects or the “health of the mother”.
Therein lies the secret to promoting this barbaric ghoulish practice.
“Mental health” is the catch-all phrase that will justify aborting late term babies....stress, anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc.... It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see how abortionists can confabulated and craft a legally acceptable indication.
L
The Guttmacher Institute is a pro-choice organization that has studied this quite extensively.....again, they are pro choice.

Here is the breakdown of reasons why women opt for a late term abortion:

71% — Woman didn’t recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation

48% — Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion

33% — Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents

24% — Woman took time to decide to have an abortion

8% — Woman waited for her relationship to change

8% — Someone pressured woman not to have abortion

6% — Something changed after woman became pregnant

6% — Woman didn’t know timing is important

5% — Woman didn’t know she could get an abortion

2% — A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy

11% — Other

So in this study, it boils down to ignorance, stupidity, poor planning, and relationship issues. Maternal physical health and “fetal problems” make up a very small percentage. The abortionists will cleverly mold these into mental health indications, under the heading of “health of the mother”.

The good news is that most of the bigger, more advanced babies won’t have to be ripped out piecemeal while they cry out in the womb and squirm in agony. Medicine has advanced so these medieval, brutal methods might only be occasionally performed.
They can train a mid level provider to push a large-bore needle through the baby’s skull into the brain, where they can inject lethal doses of digoxin into the brain. Pretty painless for mommy.
She can go home, go shopping, smoke some weed, or join her friends at the bar to celebrate the event. After a day of waiting for the baby to slowly die in his/her womb, the mommy can return to have the baby delivered/removed/extracted piecemeal. Usually it’s a much more streamlined extermination, thanks to the wonders of modern
Infanticidology.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-28 2:39 PM

Bear, thanks for sharing all this info. I'm curious if you have a link of the study or something along those lines? I'd like to share it on my social media. I'll have to zip up my flame suit but nonetheless, it is worth sharing.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-28 2:39 PM Bear, thanks for sharing all this info. I'm curious if you have a link of the study or something along those lines? I'd like to share it on my social media. I'll have to zip up my flame suit but nonetheless, it is worth sharing.

mtcanchazer - 2019-01-28 2:02 PM


That is so saddening.  

Chandler's Mom - 2019-01-28 7:54 PM I'll second that. And add "sickening." Am I understanding that if the baby--cause that's what it is, a little human being---survives this attempted murder---cause that's what it is, an attempt to kill this little human being---they then have to "finish it off" somehow???? Please tell me I just am not real bright and misunderstood that. . . .

mtcanchazer - 2019-01-28 9:03 PM


 That is what I was just thinking too, sickening...completely sickening. My dad was watching a commentary on second trimester abortion and the process (I know we're talking about third trimester abortions) in regards to this NY law, and I was in the other room listening. I could have about thrown up just listening to the whole process...it made me sick to listen to and still sick to think about it. 

Chandler's Mom - 2019-01-28 9:30 PM


I can't watch the video that was posted because I'm sure I'll want to puke. I cannot even stomach the idea of it, let alone actually see it. . . .

Chandler's Mom - 2019-01-28 8:54 PM I'll second that. And add "sickening." Am I understanding that if the baby--cause that's what it is, a little human being---survives this attempted murder---cause that's what it is, an attempt to kill this little human being---they then have to "finish it off" somehow???? Please tell me I just am not real bright and misunderstood that. . . .

Gator Bug - 2019-01-29 5:56 AM


Yes, since this new NY Law removed ALL criminality/removed abortion from the penal code. Even Dr. Kermit Gosnell could not and would not be prosecuted under this new NY Law. He did actually kill babies that were born alive during a later term abortion. No assistance has to be rendered if a baby is actually born during an abortion under this Law. It is just sickening. The Libs will say that this won't happen. Un-Huh. If you have NP's, PA's and licensed midwives doing abortions now, it will happen. It happened with an actual doctor when criminality was attached. But, who will know? Nobody.

i just really do not understand why there should be so many abortions with all the birth control out there. Abortions should not be on the rise. And it is by Planned Parenthood stats from 2017-18. It is just irresponsible, laziness and complete no respect for life whatsoever.

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-29 7:24 AM Won’t happen, yeah right. If they really believed it would not happen they would have no need for this law.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-28 9:56 PM

So I literally had a fb "friend" post today that if you're pro choice and feel the need to post about it constantly, please go ahead and delete yourself from my friends list.

My jaw dropped. 1. Learn how to delete or snooze or unfollow people yourself if their views offend you. I've done it many a time. 2. Can't handle the truth?

Bear, I had googled but your info was so clear and concise I figured it HAD to be from a study (okay okay, the fact that you're a doctor I thought well maybe he found this somewhere else. Anyway....) I hate to admit I never click on anything wikipedia related bc I'm not sure of it's accuracy but, I will read what you linked here!

Gator....oh I know that whether someone's info comes from a study or a reputable source doesnt matter to an entitled lib to wants the right to kill babies. It's completely irrational the way many of them think.....so why would facts work? It just makes me feel better if when I am posting something, I know it's from a reputable source. Then when they argue they just look stupid. ;)

I'm surprised some of our liberal bb friends haven't jumped on here just like you are....

Gator Bug - 2019-01-29 7:30 AM Exactly, I know. This Law goes so far beyond the pale and gets so far into Eugenics that it is nauseating and appalling.



But, it is Trump that is a Nazi, fascist, and a racist. Un-huh. Yeh, right. What the Lefties have a 'Syndrome' over is that Trump plays their game. And they don't like it. All other past Repubicans played 'nice' and he doesn't. It is their game and he took the ball. They're PO'd.  Lefties are nothing more than very patient Communists. 

Gator Bug - 2019-01-29 7:30 AM Exactly, I know. This Law goes so far beyond the pale and gets so far into Eugenics that it is nauseating and appalling.



But, it is Trump that is a Nazi, fascist, and a racist. Un-huh. Yeh, right. What the Lefties have a 'Syndrome' over is that Trump plays their game. And they don't like it. All other past Repubicans played 'nice' and he doesn't. It is their game and he took the ball. They're PO'd.  Lefties are nothing more than very patient Communists. 

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:10 AM I'm just going to point out that if what made you pregnant was so traumatic that you can't possibly carry to term then it is a very important issue that abortion remains safe and legal. Adoption is all fine and dandy, but it is harder in some ways than losing your child to death. At least if they die you can grieve and move on (not that that's easy). But when you give one up for adoption the grief can last your entire life. And then we have to consider what I am now facing - my bio mother had blocked that she even had me in her mind. Even with the genetic proof she denied having me. So on top of rejection from my adoptive mother through my life I now have rejection from my bio mother. Adoption might be an option, but it isn't all butterflies and flowers either.

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:10 AM


I'm just going to point out that if what made you pregnant was so traumatic that you can't possibly carry to term then it is a very important issue that abortion remains safe and legal.

Adoption is all fine and dandy, but it is harder in some ways than losing your child to death. At least if they die you can grieve and move on (not that that's easy). But when you give one up for adoption the grief can last your entire life.

And then we have to consider what I am now facing - my bio mother had blocked that she even had me in her mind. Even with the genetic proof she denied having me. So on top of rejection from my adoptive mother through my life I now have rejection from my bio mother.

Adoption might be an option, but it isn't all butterflies and flowers either.

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:10 AM I'm just going to point out that if what made you pregnant was so traumatic that you can't possibly carry to term then it is a very important issue that abortion remains safe and legal. Adoption is all fine and dandy, but it is harder in some ways than losing your child to death. At least if they die you can grieve and move on (not that that's easy). But when you give one up for adoption the grief can last your entire life. And then we have to consider what I am now facing - my bio mother had blocked that she even had me in her mind. Even with the genetic proof she denied having me. So on top of rejection from my adoptive mother through my life I now have rejection from my bio mother. Adoption might be an option, but it isn't all butterflies and flowers either.

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:10 AM


I'm just going to point out that if what made you pregnant was so traumatic that you can't possibly carry to term then it is a very important issue that abortion remains safe and legal.

Adoption is all fine and dandy, but it is harder in some ways than losing your child to death. At least if they die you can grieve and move on (not that that's easy). But when you give one up for adoption the grief can last your entire life.

And then we have to consider what I am now facing - my bio mother had blocked that she even had me in her mind. Even with the genetic proof she denied having me. So on top of rejection from my adoptive mother through my life I now have rejection from my bio mother.

Adoption might be an option, but it isn't all butterflies and flowers either.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-29 10:30 AM Hear ya. No option is all 'unicorns and rainbows' when you find yourself pregnant when you don't want to be...at any age.



However, abortion should be rare with ALL the birth control options out there now. Libs want to say that we aren't in the 50/60's and abortion should be on demand and reproductive rights of women. By the same token, you can say we are not in the 50/60's and it is 2019 and we have numourous forms of birth control (something for everyone). So abortion SHOULD be on the decrease. But it is not, by just Planned Parenthood's own stats.



i am moved by your post, but also a little confused. I am not condeming your post at all; as no option is great at any age when you find yourself pregnant when you don't want to be. There are consequences for every option.



But, are you posting that an abortion is/should be favored over adoption based on your experience with your bio and adoptive Moms? Just asking and trying to understand your post thoroughly. 

OregonBR - 2019-01-29 9:52 AM

When I was in high school (many, MANY moons ago) I took a Philosophy class. My most memorable take away from that class is this. People can and will justify/rationalize anything if they want it bad enough. Once they do, many don't have a second thought about it. We used to be a Christian based nation. Our moral parameters were pretty tight. The Ten Commandments ruled. That doesn't mean all of us weren't sinners. Everyone has sinned. But most of us at least had a moral compass. The farther and farther we get away from the Ten Commandments the closer some of us come to being lost without any knowledge of right and wrong. The opposite end of the spectrum is satan worship. Folks, we have people who are satan worshipers in our society. Right out in plan sight. This NY abortion law is going to keep those people from being prosecuted for participating in sick rituals using babies and children. I'm just going to stop right there. If you want to know, start researching. I personally don't want to go down that rabbit hole. I know it exists, it's so wrong and the people that are participating are sick. In my mind there is no redemption for them. That's up to God. But I sure would like to arrange the meeting.

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:53 AM
No. I don't think anyone is pro-abortion. 

I'm just pointing out that no matter what choice you make if you find yourself pregnant in an untenable situation that all choices should be available and safe.

All choices on this issue carry their own emotional baggage, for life. 
 

jbhoot - 2019-01-29 9:32 AM


TRUE but you are alive you could have been thrown out with the trash. GOD must have a plain for you. Don't let your mother's weakness drag you down. You are here for a reason.

OregonBR - 2019-01-29 9:52 AM

When I was in high school (many, MANY moons ago) I took a Philosophy class. My most memorable take away from that class is this. People can and will justify/rationalize anything if they want it bad enough. Once they do, many don't have a second thought about it. We used to be a Christian based nation. Our moral parameters were pretty tight. The Ten Commandments ruled. That doesn't mean all of us weren't sinners. Everyone has sinned. But most of us at least had a moral compass. The farther and farther we get away from the Ten Commandments the closer some of us come to being lost without any knowledge of right and wrong. The opposite end of the spectrum is satan worship. Folks, we have people who are satan worshipers in our society. Right out in plan sight. This NY abortion law is going to keep those people from being prosecuted for participating in sick rituals using babies and children. I'm just going to stop right there. If you want to know, start researching. I personally don't want to go down that rabbit hole. I know it exists, it's so wrong and the people that are participating are sick. In my mind there is no redemption for them. That's up to God. But I sure would like to arrange the meeting.

Chandler's Mom - 2019-01-29 8:58 PM


A little side trip from the main topic, but I saw today where the Democrats want to/are (?) gonna remove "so help me God" from the swearing in of certain people. I hope that was just one of those VERY FEW (ha) things that you see on the internet that aren't true. Certain sections of our country are trying to push us faster than a snowball straight to hell. . . .

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-30 5:16 AM Virginia is proposing the same law, you can kill the baby up until time of dialation. Murder plain and simple.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/01/29/virginia-democrat-proposes-bill-legalizing-abortion-until-birth/

Gator Bug - 2019-01-30 5:42 AM

Yep. I saw that too. I think Vermont is also looking at a very similar Law as well.

I could not believe when the Virginia Rep proposing the Law said that you could abort up until dialation and labor?!?!?!? The NY Law isn't any different. They just were not asked the way the VA Rep was. NY Reps just said up until birth. Unreal.

This is not abortion, but infantcide.  

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-30 7:40 AM Geez they don't even add a clause for the "health" of the mother. This is disgusting.

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-30 11:13 AM I went to a liberal FB page and the spin they are putting on it is the right side is claiming that the law states unrestricted until birth, that those who oppose it are misinformed.   I posted the above video and asked why it was necessary to kill the baby to save the mother- crickets.  

LIVE2RUN - 2019-01-24 2:29 PM Im not on either side of the abortion issue, however, the new law gives more freedom for women to choose what to do, I don't like the fact that the government gets involved in what's best for me and my body...I will decide, period......

lonely va barrelxr - 2019-01-29 9:10 AM I'm just going to point out that if what made you pregnant was so traumatic that you can't possibly carry to term then it is a very important issue that abortion remains safe and legal. Adoption is all fine and dandy, but it is harder in some ways than losing your child to death. At least if they die you can grieve and move on (not that that's easy). But when you give one up for adoption the grief can last your entire life. And then we have to consider what I am now facing - my bio mother had blocked that she even had me in her mind. Even with the genetic proof she denied having me. So on top of rejection from my adoptive mother through my life I now have rejection from my bio mother. Adoption might be an option, but it isn't all butterflies and flowers either.

rodeomom3 - 2019-01-30 7:18 PM

So are they going to prosecute those mothers who dispose of their babies at birth?  What is the difference between that and the new law?  

Bear - 2019-01-30 7:51 PM

https://www.dailywire.com/news/42839/watch-democratic-va-governor-en...
Something at the end of this article really made my hair stand on end:

"Simply put, the American people do not deserve the care of a benevolent God if they embrace such evil."

Some of you may scoff at this, but I truly believe we should be scared for our nation. I truly believe God will only tolerate this for so long.

In the Old Testament, part of the reason God allowed the Israelites to be taken into captivity in Babylonia was bc they'd gotten into infant/child sacrifice....to the Ammonite god Molech.

If we think He doesn't see the nation as a whole bending their knees to the god of "Choice," we are kidding ourselves.

What will happen to US if we don't stand for the unborn? I don't know. I know God is patient and forgiving and benevolent but I also know He reaches a point where enough is enough and I shudder to think what judgement would look like for this.

Edited by MOGirl07 2019-01-30 10:01 PM

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-30 7:24 PM You know that's the next thing they will get lax on.

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-30 8:15 PM


Well said, well said!!!!

When Chan told me about this new law (yes, it's sad when my 20 year old son has to keep me in the know with news), he was indignant, outraged. We discussed how God is looking at us. He's certainly watching, and this He won't forget or look over. Our nation is on a slippery slope, and I believe the downhill slide has picked up speed. . . . God help us.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-30 9:38 PM

I just got into a BIG/HUGE fight with my 65YO neighbor over this whole topic of this thread. It got so very bad that my husband had to referee. He got out of hand too and had to yell at him. I'll explain.

My neighbor is a very kind woman that sees all the good in people, to a fault. I do not. We can disagree on A LOT with people and what they are from the very beginning of meeting them. However, she claims to be the 'old Democrat' that her parents were.

We got into it tonight talking about this thread and what the new NY Law was. She didn't agree with the NY Law.
BUT... she was INSISTING that Hillary wasn't like that or for that; and Hillary DID NOT believe in that. I told her that Hillary worshipped Margaret Sanger as an idol, and did believe in partial birth abortion and Hillary FULLY believed in women's reproductive rights SOLELY up to birth. I told her that Elizabeth Warren was that way and so was Kamala Harris and every other Dem running for 2020. She said 'no' they were NOT and I lost it!  BIG time. I told her to look it up. She said she would and she will not. She does that ALL the time...just convienently forgets and it is never discussed again.

My husband jumped in and tried to say that we were friends and she made a nice dinner tonight. AND, I was out of line yelling. I responded with 'exactly what is your point?' She did not agree with the NY Law BUT still continues to vote Dem or people that believe in this Law. She justified it by saying Trump 'scares' her!!!!  I went off again!!!

The long and short of it is that...it has been an absolute TOTAL nightmare tonight with my longtime friend/neighbor AND my husband (that tried to make peace). I am way PO'd with him trying to calm me down.  I am like a big ole bull seeing red on this. Absolutely no negotiation whatsoever. I know I am bad. Isn't that the first step in Re-Hab? Admitting you have a problem? LOL

She is a straight Dem across the board, doesn't research...just votes Democrat because that what her parents did and what she does. AND... Trump scares her but CANNOT answer 'why' when I ask her why?!?!?!?

So....that is MY night in a nut shell. It has been a nightmare on so many levels I can't even begin to say ALL of what happened. I am exhausted mentally...physically fine. Uggghhh!!!

Bear - 2019-01-30 8:16 PM

Here’s a video where an abortionist is showing the body parts of a 20 week old baby. I wonder if the infanticidal progressives cheer and clap when they see the little feet, hands, head, and eyes:


https://www.lifenews.com/2019/01/28/warning-graphic-abortionist-hold...
I watched this and about got sick. That sweet, sweet little baby.

The doctor's commentary is just awful. "We helped this young lady get on with her life....she gets to go to school....without the responsibility of parenting."
Yeah, okay, don't focus at all on the dead baby parts you are piecing back together, focus on this woman who now gets to go to school without the burden of parenting bc she just let you rip her child out of her womb. Is that what this guy tells himself so he can sleep at night?

Gator Bug - 2019-01-30 9:38 PM

I just got into a BIG/HUGE fight with my 65YO neighbor over this whole topic of this thread. It got so very bad that my husband had to referee. He got out of hand too and had to yell at him. I'll explain.

My neighbor is a very kind woman that sees all the good in people, to a fault. I do not. We can disagree on A LOT with people and what they are from the very beginning of meeting them. However, she claims to be the 'old Democrat' that her parents were.

We got into it tonight talking about this thread and what the new NY Law was. She didn't agree with the NY Law.
BUT... she was INSISTING that Hillary wasn't like that or for that; and Hillary DID NOT believe in that. I told her that Hillary worshipped Margaret Sanger as an idol, and did believe in partial birth abortion and Hillary FULLY believed in women's reproductive rights SOLELY up to birth. I told her that Elizabeth Warren was that way and so was Kamala Harris and every other Dem running for 2020. She said 'no' they were NOT and I lost it!  BIG time. I told her to look it up. She said she would and she will not. She does that ALL the time...just convienently forgets and it is never discussed again.

My husband jumped in and tried to say that we were friends and she made a nice dinner tonight. AND, I was out of line yelling. I responded with 'exactly what is your point?' She did not agree with the NY Law BUT still continues to vote Dem or people that believe in this Law. She justified it by saying Trump 'scares' her!!!!  I went off again!!!

The long and short of it is that...it has been an absolute TOTAL nightmare tonight with my longtime friend/neighbor AND my husband (that tried to make peace). I am way PO'd with him trying to calm me down.  I am like a big ole bull seeing red on this. Absolutely no negotiation whatsoever. I know I am bad. Isn't that the first step in Re-Hab? Admitting you have a problem? LOL

She is a straight Dem across the board, doesn't research...just votes Democrat because that what her parents did and what she does. AND... Trump scares her but CANNOT answer 'why' when I ask her why?!?!?!?

So....that is MY night in a nut shell. It has been a nightmare on so many levels I can't even begin to say ALL of what happened. I am exhausted mentally...physically fine. Uggghhh!!!

Chandler's Mom - 2019-01-30 9:48 PM Ok, deeeeeeep breathes, say "this too shall pass" 5 times. May have to throw a tacky word out a time or two, but you will reach a tolerable state before long. Sometimes goofy just makes you want to scream obscenities, doesn't it?????

Gator Bug - 2019-01-30 9:38 PM

I just got into a BIG/HUGE fight with my 65YO neighbor over this whole topic of this thread. It got so very bad that my husband had to referee. He got out of hand too and had to yell at him. I'll explain.

My neighbor is a very kind woman that sees all the good in people, to a fault. I do not. We can disagree on A LOT with people and what they are from the very beginning of meeting them. However, she claims to be the 'old Democrat' that her parents were.

We got into it tonight talking about this thread and what the new NY Law was. She didn't agree with the NY Law.
BUT... she was INSISTING that Hillary wasn't like that or for that; and Hillary DID NOT believe in that. I told her that Hillary worshipped Margaret Sanger as an idol, and did believe in partial birth abortion and Hillary FULLY believed in women's reproductive rights SOLELY up to birth. I told her that Elizabeth Warren was that way and so was Kamala Harris and every other Dem running for 2020. She said 'no' they were NOT and I lost it!  BIG time. I told her to look it up. She said she would and she will not. She does that ALL the time...just convienently forgets and it is never discussed again.

My husband jumped in and tried to say that we were friends and she made a nice dinner tonight. AND, I was out of line yelling. I responded with 'exactly what is your point?' She did not agree with the NY Law BUT still continues to vote Dem or people that believe in this Law. She justified it by saying Trump 'scares' her!!!!  I went off again!!!

The long and short of it is that...it has been an absolute TOTAL nightmare tonight with my longtime friend/neighbor AND my husband (that tried to make peace). I am way PO'd with him trying to calm me down.  I am like a big ole bull seeing red on this. Absolutely no negotiation whatsoever. I know I am bad. Isn't that the first step in Re-Hab? Admitting you have a problem? LOL

She is a straight Dem across the board, doesn't research...just votes Democrat because that what her parents did and what she does. AND... Trump scares her but CANNOT answer 'why' when I ask her why?!?!?!?

So....that is MY night in a nut shell. It has been a nightmare on so many levels I can't even begin to say ALL of what happened. I am exhausted mentally...physically fine. Uggghhh!!!

Fun2Run - 2019-01-30 11:40 PM I have a friend like that. Same age, says she reads everything political she sees. But, she only reads left leaning rhetoric so she can tell herself, yes, she's right - Trump is an anarchist, Hillary isn't a criminal (or murderer), Bill wasn't a horn dog and on and on. So OK, we don't discuss politics. The democrats today are NOT the democrats of yesteryear.

Fun2Run - 2019-01-30 11:40 PM I have a friend like that. Same age, says she reads everything political she sees. But, she only reads left leaning rhetoric so she can tell herself, yes, she's right - Trump is an anarchist, Hillary isn't a criminal (or murderer), Bill wasn't a horn dog and on and on. So OK, we don't discuss politics. The democrats today are NOT the democrats of yesteryear.

Gator Bug - 2019-01-31 7:34 AM

I hear both of you.

Me and my neighbor never really do discuss politics. But the abortion law lead into this argument last night. As she said she didn't agree with the new NY Law, but she still will vote Democrat when she doesn't agree with most of what they now stand for.  I would argue that they have stood for this type of Law for a long time and now are more vocal about it. She didn't like that as she was an 'older type Dem'. She can't explain why Trump 'scares' her... he just does. 

We really do stay away from Politics...normally. But this whole new NY Law and proposed laws in other states lead us into politics. 

It was an unfortunate conversation and I will probably not do it again... at all with anything that can lead into the whole political spectrum. I just didn't really realize it would go there last night. Again...will not go there in the future. 

ETA... I have (we both have) another neighbor that is a staunch Liberal Dem. Her and I can argue/discuss Left and Right. It gets heated sometimes. But we walk away from the conversation respecting one another's opinions and each other. We are all cool afterwards. Last night, there was no back and forth, no justification for her position. It was just that she doesn't like/agree with the NY Law/proposed laws in other states or much of what the 'new' Dems do/stand for...but she still votes that way. There was just no logic to it. 

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 1:08 PM

It sounds to me like the verbiage for the health of the mother is pretty vague and could mean a lot of things (read: loopholes). A lot of libs on my fb freaking out today that conservatives are so upset about this and I would like to have a better understanding of it before responding yo anyone. I will wade thru the links/suggestions you all sent....thanks a bunch!

Frodo - 2019-01-31 12:59 PM All the news we heard in the last couple of days about liberals and late-term abortion......liberal media isn't carrying this (shocker) so when you talk to folks who are liberal about this subject, they don't even know what you're talking about and get defensive.  MSM protects them from reality.





 

MOGirl07 - 2019-01-30 8:08 PM


I really really really dislike that.....when someone on either side of the fence votes straight across the flipping board one side without having a CLUE what those candidates actually stand for. Ugh.

OregonBR - 2019-01-31 1:58 PM I'm one that use to pick and choose. But I haven't seen a good democrat for decades. So ya. I'm not voting for any of them. They stick together like rice on every topic and it's the wrong side. The only alternative is republican. So that's who I vote for. This year the GOP in my great state of Oregon chose an Effing RINO. The other candidate in the primary was a much better choice. But they didn't back him. So the RINO won the primary and lost to a dem in the general election AGAIN! The dems have a supermajority in congress and the governor. We now have 24 new taxes or fee increases effective in 2018. YaY us...... :(