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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 408
| I have no idea why I can't get it right when it comes to bits. I do tons of research, read everything that I can find on the internet about bits and I still can't figure out what is the best bit for my horse! He does work beautiful barrels but as soon as I put the breaks he violently shakes his head. I know my hands are not the best and I am working really hard on fixing that problem, I am also not what you would consider a very strong person although sometimes that doesn't really mean anything when your hands are not the greatest, nonetheless, because of my shortcomings, I am considering changing him bit to something mild but that I still have breaks.
At home I ride him with a 3 piece snaffle bit (pretty thick) and I run him on a jr cowhorse with twisted cooper wire now... any ideas what to do for a head shaker??? I do want to have some breaks of course but I don't want to keep making him mad. He is a pretty awesome guy and I definitely don't want to ruin him.
PD: Nothing physically wrong with him. A very good vet Checked him from top to bottom. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
  
Location: Montana | Have you tried a 3 piece jr cowhorse bit twisted wire with a dog bone? I am currently using that on my gelding, and I have brakes. I am going to try him in a chain mouth and see how that fits, because he is super light mouthed, but a strong runner. He does throw is head a little when I get a little "handsy" with him (which is unintentional, usually when I'm ponying another horse and not paying attention). |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 408
| mtcanchazer - 2019-01-29 8:05 PM
Have you tried a 3 piece jr cowhorse bit twisted wire with a dog bone? I am currently using that on my gelding, and I have brakes. I am going to try him in a chain mouth and see how that fits, because he is super light mouthed, but a strong runner. He does throw is head a little when I get a little "handsy" with him (which is unintentional, usually when I'm ponying another horse and not paying attention).
thank you so much for your suggestions! I will definitely try one. Funny, I always thought the chain mouths were horrible for them but I am learning that they are actually milder... the ignorance has no limits sometimes!  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
Location: Missouri | love2ridepre - 2019-01-30 7:54 AM
mtcanchazer - 2019-01-29 8:05 PM
Have you tried a 3 piece jr cowhorse bit twisted wire with a dog bone? I am currently using that on my gelding, and I have brakes. I am going to try him in a chain mouth and see how that fits, because he is super light mouthed, but a strong runner. He does throw is head a little when I get a little "handsy" with him (which is unintentional, usually when I'm ponying another horse and not paying attention).
thank you so much for your suggestions! I will definitely try one. Funny, I always thought the chain mouths were horrible for them but I am learning that they are actually milder... the ignorance has no limits sometimes!
Of course anything in the wrong hands can be a harsh bit, and some horses don't like a chain mouth bc they don't like so many moving parts, but yes, it's considered a mild bit. :) My mare used to be quite sensitive mouthed til I put her in one. That said, I don't think they give you a whole lot of whoa if that's what you're looking for, but someone else may be able to chime in. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | So, I'm going to throw an idea out for you, since you're self proclaimed lacking in the bit department.......
I would strongly urge you to have someone help you adjust your bit to the proper elevation in the horses mouth. 1-2 wrinkles can make a world of difference in how the horse responds. The 3 piece snaffle you are using for practice is VERY mild compared to a twisted copper 2 piece. The quality of the bit as well as the set of the curb can make a world of difference in one that shakes his head and one that doesn't. The snaffle bit may be making him a bit "dull" so when you put the twisted wire on, he's thinking "holy crap" barb wire in my mouth. If I were you and he's only shaking his head with the twisted wire, I would practice with it, adjusting it up/down and taking the curb in or letting it out to see if he is any better, however, he may just need to do some drills that will get him to respond to the bit instead of "having a fit" Go ride with someone you trust, I'm always amazed at the amount of people that ride with a bit that hangs in the horses mouth-sometimes to the point that the horse actually has to carry it.......
With all that said, a "good vet check" versus someone that knows teeth and works on them appropriately are 2 very different things! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 432
| My first thought would be how is he in a hackmore? Then what type of curb strap are you using? Any difference with a chain compared to smooth leather strap?
Does he only head shake and act resistant when stopping from a run? Or is it just any time you pull back? Are you using a tie down? Is the tie down interfering with the bit? Did he do this with previous owners? Could it be the headstall and not the bit bothering him?
I would just experiment and try to figure out what is triggering him. He may have just never been taught to give to a bit or you may just have the bit adjusted too tight or lots of reasons! Good luck! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 408
| LMS - 2019-01-30 9:01 AM
So, I'm going to throw an idea out for you, since you're self proclaimed lacking in the bit department.......I would strongly urge you to have someone help you adjust your bit to the proper elevation in the horses mouth. 1-2 wrinkles can make a world of difference in how the horse responds. The 3 piece snaffle you are using for practice is VERY mild compared to a twisted copper 2 piece. The quality of the bit as well as the set of the curb can make a world of difference in one that shakes his head and one that doesn't. The snaffle bit may be making him a bit "dull" so when you put the twisted wire on, he's thinking "holy crap" barb wire in my mouth. If I were you and he's only shaking his head with the twisted wire, I would practice with it, adjusting it up/down and taking the curb in or letting it out to see if he is any better, however, he may just need to do some drills that will get him to respond to the bit instead of "having a fit" Go ride with someone you trust, I'm always amazed at the amount of people that ride with a bit that hangs in the horses mouth-sometimes to the point that the horse actually has to carry it....... With all that said, a "good vet check" versus someone that knows teeth and works on them appropriately are 2 very different things!
The bit is adjusted properly (I had a few good knowledgeable people looking at it). I agree that the difference between the bit that I ride him at home and the one I run him in is monumental but I haven't been riding him with the mild bit very long (just a couple of times). That's why I am considering changing his running bit to something similar. Just riding him at home with the twisted wire he's fine, not once he will shake his head. He will only do it when I ask him to stop when we are done running.
He just had a complete vet check with an excellent vet, so that part is covered  |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
| I have found a lot of horse do not like chain curb straps, the noise they make I find is irritating to many. I have switched to the rawhide curb straps and have seen everyone improve. A few I was convinced it was a bit issue and it was just the curb strap bothering them. Also, most barrel racers associate barrel horses needing bits that have breaks in them for the horse to bend and turn. Some horses will turn better with a solid bit. Many of the greats have ran in solid bits. A go to bit when I’ve tried all my Elliot bits and other common barrel bits is a Kerry kelly solid mouth port. It’s the 65 Shank 12 mouth piece. It’s smooth on the bars so they will run up into it but the port is scooped back a bit so when you apply pressure to whoa and turn it keeps them balanced and stopping straight. I can ride extremely light handed for the most sensitive horse and still get the response I want. I can get one to turn on a dime in this bit. I think most trainers have their go to bits- the same bit will do different things in different hands. I feel bits are a never ending learning process. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 408
| Guido - 2019-01-30 9:06 AM
My first thought would be how is he in a hackmore? Then what type of curb strap are you using? Any difference with a chain compared to smooth leather strap?
Does he only head shake and act resistant when stopping from a run? Or is it just any time you pull back? Are you using a tie down? Is the tie down interfering with the bit? Did he do this with previous owners? Could it be the headstall and not the bit bothering him?
I would just experiment and try to figure out what is triggering him. He may have just never been taught to give to a bit or you may just have the bit adjusted too tight or lots of reasons! Good luck!
I've never run him on a hackmore and personally I am not too crazy about them LOL. This chain strap is very very loose, and we did not see any difference by using a leather one either. Only time he will shake his head is when we stop from a run, every other time he is fine. I did try a tie down, but he was still shaking his head when I asked him to stop so... tie down off! I have tried one ear headstall, to full headstall... same thing....
He is an AWESOME dude and I don't want to make him so mad that he doesn't want to do his job anymore! Just trying to make it better for him. And yes, me as a rider needs to improve of course, and I do work with an EXCELLENT trainer when I can... (She lives 4 hours from me so getting to her it can be a challenge ) |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| My daughter has become a pretty good bit fitter and now we go through each horse and check several things when finding the right bit. She checks how fat the tongue it, how long are the lips some horses are pretty short and others long, how tall is the palette . We have some who will not tolerate a snaffle of any sort because they hate tongue pressure, we no longer really ride any single joint snaffles all three piece but even those we have a variety because the length of your middle section can be different and hit horses in different spots same with any 3 piece. I have started riding more of my horses in bits with tongue relief and have found most love it. We have some very mild relief and go up. My good mare I run hates snaffles she will drag your arms off in , throw her head in the air, she pulls her tongue back from under it because she hates it. I tried a chain which was better but she would still gap her mouth in our turns . I finally put her in a myler Lynn Mckenzie bit with a port it is fairly long shanked with a small amount of gag. She is quiet in this bit her mouth stays closed and she rides much more relaxed. I don't need as much shank as I have but she loves the mouth piece and we get along so I am not changing it. I do not use any twisted bits anymore just have not had a need. I actually sold all of mine that had twist. So take it easy on my and my idea or opinions I do not explain it all as good as my kid who does all the studying and just tells me what to do now. I will say though that actually having someone take a good look at their mouth has made a huge difference in finding what will work without trying a million things first. |
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I feel so stupid when it comes to bits ugh!