https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oIA_-P9BPw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0CT6n7PPyCJbaFvV9svbBmejtlx8jvZWqqkTeewYnAOPl_ilCg1lhN1u4

I came across this horse for sale, who has been with this trainer for the past six months. I'm just curious what the purpose is of him constantly bumping the bit with the reins? My guess is he's trying to keep the horse in a "collected" frame, even though he's not truly collected?

I am not a trainer by any stretch, so I'd love some insight from those who are more experienced.

I'm curious to read the replies to this one. He's trying to keep him bumped behind the vertical, but man is he annoying. Is this a cutting thing? They are bumped in WP and reining somewhat, but not nearly this much.

It was really hard for me to watch the whole thing, I can't help but think how miserable the horse must be. Maybe I'm missing something.

I would guess it must be a cutting thing. The person who used to keep her horse at my place came from the cutting world and rode like that all the time.  All. The. Time. And then wondered why her mare got hot in the alley with her pulling like that when the mare wanted to move freely forward.

But she thought that was the only right way for a horse to move. If I'd've wanted to have been confrontational I would have videod her and shown her that her horse was also not in frame. Every tool was used to keep that nose in. The horse was never allowed to work freely at any gait. But what do I know . . 

I'm not an expert by any means but honestly it doesn't look like him bumping the horse is really doing anything, other than being extremely annoying. 

Good gravy that was almost painful to watch. I'm not a pro here but pretty sure what was really accomplished accomplished here was annoying the crap out of that horse. 

I was trying to remember where I've seen extreme "bumping" before and I want to say it was in western pleasure waaaaay back when.. I remember a trainer hollering over and over "bump him, bump him" ... 

He was basically just picking on him. He has the horse wadded up. When the horse tried to drop his head and relax, the guy probably felt like he was speeding up, hollowing his back and getting out of that wadded up frame. It served no purpose other than to just pick on the horse.

Ok, that's exactly what it looked like to me, that the horse truly wasn't doing anything wrong. I thought the trainer was being a little excessive, but wanted to get opinions from more knowlegeable people :)

I believe he's trying to get him to give to his face and drop his head, and probably slow his legs which would only happen if he collected up. But he's out of balance so his legs are moving faster and the gentleman is just asking from the front end rather than asking from the belly so... it just looks more annoying than anything. 

Is this a trainer we would know?

The horse is actually trying to be collected, every time he drops his head and starts reaching into the bridle and into frame the man bumps his reins up and gives him mixed signals.  I’ve been taking lessons on how to get my horses more soft and collected with a reining trainer and from what I’ve learned and can see in the video he’s giving mixed signals.  You should only ask for more collection/pressure if he starts raising his head and hollowing his back but this man does it as the horse is trying to get into a relaxed and collected gait.  I use leg pressure and if they don’t respond to legs you use rein pressure as soon as the horse drops you should release and give it back, that’s how they learn from release of pressure, this poor horse has many mixed signals.  

I dabbled in the cutting world and the horses were always ridden "thrown away." You leave the reins loose and just ride them without messing with them. This looks like more show pen, WP type stuff. Just someone who doesn't know what they're doing looks like 

I've watched NCHA hall of fame riders at cuttings and have never seen this. . .  I feel bad; I liked the way the horse looked.  

Not a fan at all.

He's continually asking the horse to be in a "headset" but he is doing nothing about engaging the horse's body. He's teaching this horse to have a false headseat, with weight on the front end and hollowed back.

This will be a horse that learns to carry his nose on his chest to get away from that annoying bumping and not learn to steer properly or how to use his body correctly.

Of course, it won't be the horse's fault......

Quite frankly this sale video lost me at the martingale on a leverage bit before he even got on the pick at that horse. 

Who is this man anyway? I need to look him up and ask him to come on here to explain his training, every one trains different so he may have his reasons for doing what hes doing and can explain why since a lot of folks dont seem to agree with his way..I try not to be judgemental of others but I know sometimes its hard to just keep quite, but really the horse looks really nice to me, I see nothing wrong with a man that has a different way of doing things.. I bet if everyone posted a video of their training not everyone is going to agree with what they are doing. Just my 2 cents

Nice gelding. My guess is they're selling him because he's not taking to Western pleasure as quickly as they had hoped.  He's still moving his feet a bit quicker than wp people like and he wants to carry himself higher than they like.

Whatever this guys reason for constantly bumping that poor horse’s mouth, it wasn’t a good one. There’s *never* a reason to purposely put a horse behind the vertical and there’s definitely no reason to bump and nag them like that.

Have you guys never watched western pleasure riders exercise their horses? They ALL ride just like this. Its terrible.

If he would ask him to lift his back and engage his hind end he would slow his feet down.

just saying.

this isn’t high level western pleasure, this is backyard local open show.

I used to show WP - 12 years ago. But I did not ride like this. I always asked with my legs for them to lift their bellies/back and 19 times out of 20, I got the response I needed ( more collected, slowing down, etc) and didn't need to touch their faces. 

But yes, many WP riders, especially ones at the local fun show level, ride like this and it grates on my nerves to watch.

I thought I would give this a bump

You troublemaker, you!!

Yept I thought that this needed a bump up..

It's all good, I'd just love for you to point out where I was making fun of him. This is huge stretch and you know it.

No, you didn't "actually" make fun of him but YOU did this ......

 My problem is the mean spirited nature of posting a pic KNOWING the response it's going to get,

Oh....wait ...... that is from YOUR post on the "weird" thread .....

My point about bumping up the Video that Gunner11 posted is this... This man was making a video to sell this horse on, he was not asking anyone to judge him he just wanted to make a sale, but this did turn into a judgement video, And I'm not pointing any fingers at any one on that thread because I respect all my BB's and love them all, they are all good people, but when you do post any videos of anyone of course its human nature to judge.. I respected this mans way of riding, we all do things different, BUT on the Weird thread, these silly people like the responds they get, they put themselves out there for a reason and on purpose they are entertainers this is their job and they do it well, this is how they make the millons they get for stuff like this, so dont come onto that thread and say we or bullys and racist.. The man in the video was on a sale ad for gosh sake... Yes he was out there but I dont think he thought he would be put up for a judgement debate on a forum..

Yes, I know what I typed. How on earth is that even remotely related to asking why a trainer is riding a certain way? I could see your point if I said "OMG guys, look at this idiot on this horse". 

Y'all are really grasping at straws here, trying to create something from nothing.

So if I see something that I'm confused about, and would like to know from more experienced horse people why something is being done a certain way, I should never post a video, even if that would be the best way to explain my question? If anyone thinks I posted that video for it to turn into a judgemental, bashing thread, that's your problem.

Funny how things get turned around, isn't it?????

You're going to try and interpret things how you want, but you know good and well this thread was created to ask a legitimate question, and the other was solely to ridicule someone. You're a smart lady who knows the difference but you're just trying to keep the sh!t stirred up.

I don’t think either STPG or NJJ were “grasping at straws” at all.  The guy in red had to know he would receive all kinds of comments. The trainer was just trying to sell a horse. The first guy knew his picture would be reposted by people on social media, that’s why he dressed that way - he WANTS the attention. The trainer posted his video for  the purpose of selling a horse and that brings attention, too, when posted on social media. The OP posted the red dressed guy for reactions and you did the same thing when you posted the trainer’s video. I don’t see how you think that’s “grasping g at straws”. 

I created this post asking why he was using that technique on that horse, because I had literally never seen it before and since this group is full of really great riders and trainers, this was the best place to ask. I didn't post it with the intention of bashing the trainer.

The post of the guy in red has a title of "weird" and was created to make fun of someone. It's right there in the title!

These are two completely different things and not even remotely related. But people can twist anything they want to fit their narrative.

You are so worried about peoples’ feelings. Well, it is because of you and people like you that I would never post a video of me riding/running barrels. I am at best an average 3D rider, so sometimes I am in my horses mouth or not perfectly sitting in the middle of my saddle.