There is a veterinarian in Kansas that is encouraging his clients to do multiple nerve blocks on obvious hoof abscess type symptoms, or when client asks for farrier Xray views. 

Ok... so that seems like bad business, but the part that I believe is negligent is that he doesn't check to see if his blocks are good or not, and then he keeps doing nerve blocks up the leg which is a hefty bill. I believe that he is not doing good nerve blocks on purpose. 

I believe that this is malpractice. 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

Well, that’s why they call it “ practice” lol.  If that was my horse, I would be asking a lot of questions as he is working on my horse. If I was not satisfied with the answers I would leave. 

Sounds like you are really unhappy with something this vet did or did'nt do, are you planning on trying to sue this vet?

No, I'm asking how people feel about vets that purposefully alter results to get more money. 

Or have any experiences like this ? 

I also have had a vet falsifiy lab results, and caught him in it by calling the lab, and he never took ownership of it.

There are just as many "shady" vets as there are human Drs.

Yes, I agree. But much more closlely monitor by the insurance companies. Those insurance companies will do anything to get out of paying the bill.

This is why every individual needs to educate themselves and become a vigilent and discerning consumer regardless of the product.  It is very easy to screw over a passive victim. Not so easy if you are willing to question and advocate on your own or your animals behalf.  After all you are controlling the purse strings. 

Unless you have been at the appointments it is heresay

I have been involved with horses most of my life and still have trouble relaying what the vet explained to me a few hours later to a friend.

I feel there are a few vets who should not be, but if you make a statement like that we need some proof to back it up

I had a vet repeatedly send stallion shipments that had no semen in them NONE!  She said that they had been mishandled and was not responsible for anything after it left her facility. When the stallion owner was contacted, he sided with the vet and cussed two of us out. Finally gave up and had to do an “emergency” booking to another stallion.   Funny thing, about a year later the stallion owner figured out what was going on and felt he was such a victim. We tried to tell him. Not the end of the story!  I bought a brood mare from about 1000 miles from me. They had bred to the same stallion and had the same problem with the vet and semen. Very expensive lesson. 

OeI agree all the way. My point I'm making is not everyone is going to have the knowledge of a veterinarian.

A lot of people will learn through years and years of experience. But who is holding veterinarians accountable? 

If I wouldn't of had a background in health care, I wouldn't of caught the false lab results. I would of believed my vet. 

Im very grateful I found one I can trust. 

I've seen first hand. I believe to successfully prove  malpractice the animal will have to be harmed in some way. With multiple unnecessary needle sticks it's only a matter of time before someone's horse gets an infection. 

I shared my story with a couple friends, and they told me they had similar experiences. That's when I started questing who is holding them accountable? 

I have had many negative experiences with vets that led to firing the vet or service, but none that would qualify for malpractice. Tho giving a lutealase shot after only a cursory glance at the uterus (looking for a pregnancy) is pretty close.

Malpractice is blatant disregard for standard practices. 

Running up the bill is common. It's as wrong as anything malpractice, imo, but not illegal. Hmm, let's use a gallon bag to clean a mare instead of the standard bag?? Let's make the client fearful of horrible things to come if they don't have us out at least 4 times a year for shots and teeth and other services that may or may not be needed? Chiros that use a pen to get a response on a horses back and then talk the client into many 'adjustments' on the horse - when ANY horse will respond to a pen run down its back? The list is endless on this subject . . 

Misdiagnosis is also pretty common, sometimes from lack of footwork (labwork, xrays, etc.). But also sometimes from lack of equine medical technology to definitively diagnose so many of the issues equines can suffer from. 

Agree!!! I had a vet once charge me 20.00 PER ROLL of vet wrap they used after injecting my horses joints. Read the bill and the total was like 80.00 for 4 rolls. I refused to pay it and went to my trailer and grabbed four rolls of vet wrap and handed them to her. Never used her again. 

When I was young and naive, I had a horse cut the inside of his front knee. Honestly nothing bad, but trying to be vigilant, I took him to the vet just to make sure. They cleaned the cut, put some medicine on it, then wrapped basically his whole leg in a bandage. Bill came to at least $150. Lookng back, they truly could have told me to just keep it clean and put some medicine on it, but I guess he felt like he had to do something to make it worth me coming there and applied this ridiculous, unnecessary bandage.

I was too passive to argue about it so just paid and left. I seriously couldn't believe they charged that much for a bandage. No sedation, stitches, or anything, just a bandage. I definitely learned my lesson on that one!

Well it was really $5 per roll, plus a $15 application fee

Looking back this was in an area of CA that is very very wealthy ( Not me, but the area..LOL) and on most service calls, she probably just writes the bill and the owner pays it no questions asked. SHe almost was insulted and didn't accept my 4 rolls but vet wrap is vet wrap in the same packaging. LOL 

IDK about shady veterinarians but about a month ago my mare colic and I called about 10 different veterinarians around the area.  Not a ONE called me back.  I was so frustrated.  I finally called a vet clinic that was about an hour and a half away and hauled her there but to no avail I lost her anyway.

Animals are considered property and not human so state laws vary from state concerning mal practice.   I asked my attorney.  :)   And since I paid for a big chunk of her law school I guess I am entitled to free legal advice.  lol   ( it's my daughter also ) :)

This is a very interesting topic.

Such a terrifying topic but a good eye opener too. I've learned a lot in the past two years, and I question so much that the shady vets get really frustrated and the good/great vets are more than happy to go into depth about whatever I'm asking.

We, too, struggle with getting an emergency vet out that is more knowledgable about horses than cows.

I had a mare on previcox and was running low. Called the vet, who was 3 hrs away, and asked if I ordered it online, would they ok a script. the tech said sure but it would be a $30 charge to ok it. However they would gladly ship me a bottle of it for $130.... I said no thanks, called me best friend whose a vet and she ok'd the script. The same vet also texted me to tell me since they were running late one day and all the other appointments in the area had cancelled, they would gladly drive over to check my mare but it would be a $150 trip charge....... I said no. And never used them again. We were dealing with some feet issues and I needed her rechecked. 

I'm not a fan.  Years ago our vet who my famiy had spent years with and thousands upon thousands took a high 4-digit pay off to pass a horse as sound that we were looking at. Swapped xrays, ultrasounds, lied on every other part of the PPE.  We obviously were paying for the PPE but the vet along with my trainer who had the horse in training in the first place, split a 5-digist pay off between them from the seller to pass the horse as sound - on top of what I was paying and a significant finders fee and commission to our trainer.  Obviously quit using the trainer and the vet, shared privately with others when appropriate.  

Exactly!  I took my husbands calf horse to the vet yesterday and I asked her if she could type something up so I made sure I told my husband correctly.  You just can't remember everything, especially when they are talking in "Vet" terms.

The vet I started using last spring is incredible about this.  After every appointment she emails me a PDF with her notes, what we found, what we did, and recommendations going forward.  I print them off and keep them in a folder in my trailer.

Also what would you expect from a Vet to come out and do a Wellness Exam."  As in what to look for, etc.  Just wondering as I had a Vet come out a couple of weeks ago to do a Wellness Exam on my 2 geldings and all he did was 1) Look at them 2) Check for cut sounds and 3) Listen to their heart.  This was not what I would term as a wellness exam.  I expected him to watch them walk, trot maybe.  Check for any swelling in their legs or swelling anywhere, check their teeth.  He did not do this..  Just curious as to what others would expect from a wellness exam.

Man, that is about as bad as it gets. I would think if you could prove that in court you yourself could be 5 digits richer. Luckily my vet has an online store anyway.. she says she hates carrying around so much stuff that clients could just order themselves. And a lot of the time its cheaper online than off the truck. On rare rare occasion ( When Regumate goes on sale at valleyvet for example) my vet has no problem approving the prescription to help ME out. But I have been with her 20 years and we have a great working relationship. Plus she is so busy she can't take new clients so she is not out to make as much as she can from her clients. 

Only time I ever have a wellness exam is when I buy a new horse, which is about every 10 years on average. LOL With my regular horses, I am their wellness exam. BUT if I had a vet out I would expect them to do the following

listen to heart, lungs, upper airway, gut sounds, 

pick up each foot and generally look at hoof health, angles, condition etc. 

Check teeth

Basic front and hind flex tests ( If a performance horse)

Feel down the back/spine for soreness

Check eyes and ears

Possibly pull blood for general CBC and other deficiencies. 

My parents tried, this was back in the 80's and we couldn't find an attorney skilled enough in our state who knew equine issues well enough to take the case and could not find another vet who would testify as an expert witness against this well-known H/J vet.  When we had one atty demand the radiographs and other exam notes and info he was told they "were lost". What do we do then.  Can't compare missing xrays against ones we knew were of this horse. We just dropped it after some attempts at legal action and a resolution.  Wasn't much we could do. I don't understand why professionals would cut their own throat by doing something like this, but I'm not wired that way so I will never understand.  

I didn't realize it was back in the 80's. lol that makes a HUGE difference! Back then they had the old hard copy films and I could totally see them getting " Lost". Todays vets use digital Xrays and I always get a copy when I have them taken, just for me to have in case vets lap top gets stolen or who knows what. Just good to have. In todays modern world I bet that vet wouldnt try something like that. SO much easier to get caught! 

I just remembered that my vet told me a story about a time she was BRIBED to remove some skin with White spot to keep the horse from having to be registered paint. THis was some years back. Aparently the foal had white that AQHA disqualified so they asked her to remove the white area. Have no idea where the white was, but she obviously refused and reported them to AQHA. My vet will also not inject a joint just because the owner wants it done or says it needs to be done. SHe wants some physical evidence that makes it necessary. I have a lot of respect for her. SHe could be making a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$ sticking needles. 

I wish we had a decent vet like that. I had a horse last weekend get a massive gash in his head (he was going to his new show home owners 2 freaking days later).  This wound was going to scar and clearly had to hurt like hell.  The horse was not acting himself at all, I couldn't get near it. I'd lift my hand to just take a pic and the horse would throw his head up and back up as fast as he could.  When we got to the vet clinic (cow vet), 16.3 horse and much a horse physically, I warned him in casual reply,  "I'm sorry but he's acting an ass because he's in pain"...vet said, "who's in pain??" and stared at me like I was retarded.  I said the horse...he's acting an ass due to pain, this isn't like him at all. " He told me "I don't need any Parelli women in here, go back outside and talk to your other horse."   I told him I was merely saying so in order for him not to get pawed in the **** head but that I was now rethinking my warning. Sure enough, fighting standing in the stocks, fighting any hand that came even to his nose, much less his forehead, fought 3 attempts at tranquing him and fought through the meds he managed to get in him. He had to fully knock him out laid out in their surgical area to get 20 stitches in his head.  I know the **** horse, I was merely giving him a warning to give it all you got because he wasn't having any of it. 

He never did send the horse home with any pain meds. Poor horse went off feed for 3 full days, walked around with his head and ear cocked to the side for 2, and the first night spent the entire night kicking his stall or with his head in the corner.  Some vets are just jerks. 

Yes she could. Good on her for not doing it if not necessary. Why would some owner want it done withour proof it needed done?  I'd be afraid infection could set in.  

Under those circumstances..... I have plenty of pain meds at home!!! LOL  Banamine, Bute, Previcox, you name it, I got it.. For something like that I would have given some banamine for immediate relief. 

Funny you ask that! ANother story of hers...... cutting horse trainer made an appointmet and booked about a 3 hour block of time. He showed up with two 5 horse trailers full of 2 year olds. ( 10 total). They were just broke to ride and getting ready to go into heavy duty cutting training. Owner demanded that she inject Hocks and Knees on all horses, because all cutting horses need hocks and knees done. That could have been a multi thousand dollar pay day for her but she told owner she could not do 10 evaluations, xrays, of knees and hocks in one day to decide which ones, if any, needed to be injected. They loaded and left. Probably found another hungry vet that did it for them. 

You have to really get to know your Vets, we have some here in my area that are in this business for the money that know how to work/milk people that dont understand whats going on, but theres vets out there that have a Heart of GOLD and I'm so very lucky and blessed to have a Vet that does have a HEART of GOLD

It also helps if you have some smarts about you and know a little about what is happening when you go to the vet. 

I'm not a vet but I can darn sure read an radiograph, I know how the different components of an equine work and what happens when they don't work. 

A shyster would have to get up pretty darn early in the morning to put one over on me. I would never use one of them anyway. 

You also should focus more on ability and reputation when searching for a care provider instead of cost of care. 

Our area is so so short on good equine vets.  We had one we loved and our horses did too---he went to work for the local university for their cow herd.

Ain't that the truth! Once when my sister was out of town, her horse got a pretty bad cut. My dad took the horse to the vet and came home and said the horse needed to be penned up for two months. My sister thought that was a little excessive, so called the vet and was told two DAYS. Just a tad bit off

My mare had an extensor tendon injury ( Front of leg not back). Only vet I could get her to was a relatively new equine hospital an hour away. Vet there was very young and admitted she didn't know much about extensor tendons, only flexor. ( Oh my.....) We did ultra sound and she told me 6 weeks stall rest, bute daily for 2 weeks, and ACE daily to keep her calm and not to plan to ride her for 8 weeks. Her parting words to me were that she would also consult a specialist and let me know what the second opinion was..... I got a call 20 minutes later from the veteran lamness vet and he told me to give her 2-3 days rest, bute was fine if I thought she needed it ( Which she didn't , she was sound, just had a bubble on the tendon) and I could use her the following weekend at the rodeo. LOl Such a huge difference of opinion. My regular vet was on vacation. To this day she still has her " Bubble" on the tendon but never missed a beat. 

Soooooo theres a little bit of a learning curve when scheduling appointments...at least with what I have found.  If the front desk tells me someone wants a physical exam, I do a physical exam- temperature, heart rate, respiration rate, listen to lungs, listen to GI, overall look at the horse, maybe check teeth.    Anything involving movement of the horse to me goes into a performance exam/lameness exam. And if they want all of that I don't double dip and charge for both, I just roll it over to a lameness exam.  All the owner has to do is mention that, and I will gladly change our course of the appointment. But if they don't bring it up and don't stop me, if I'm asked to do a physical- I do a physical.   That's why I like to talk to the owners on the phone and make appointments directly, that way I can feel out what their expectations are and meet them.  I also ask them at the time of visit what we are here for (even though I usually know, so I can gauge what they expect from me because sometimes they don't know our office has billing codes for- physical exam, wound exam, lameness exam (major and minor), performance exam, pre purchase exam, colic exam, etc etc and not all office staff are actuall horse people, and maybe wouldnt catch it either).   Not all clients own performance horses so not all horses would even need a lameness exam at the time of their annual vaccines or annual check up.  But for our performance horse clients we usually catch on pretty fast and within 30 seconds of talking to the client establish what all we are going to do that day. 

Did you ask the doctor at the time of appointment if he would check the other things you wanted checked?

So there is really no way to decide if what this vet is doing is negligent or malpractice without experiencing it first hand because a lot is lost in translation from the vet to the owner, much less the owner to the owners friend, trainer, family, etc. 

I will say hoof abscess type lamenesses are usually but not always hoof abscesses, and can be other things (fracture, laminitis, bone edema, puncture, septic joint/synovial structure, etc).  I can't make any calls on this persons exam and what led him/her to the point of doing nerve blocks on a lameness like that.  I can say for me, when I see a horse who looks like he has an abscess the first thing i do is feel for a bounding digital pulse, and then grab my hoof pick and clean the foot, look for anything obvious like a rock (it happens), and then apply hoof testers. If I don't get the hoof tester response im expecting for an abscess I will take 1-2 x rays of the foot and look for a gas pocket (not all abscesses have gas pockets but its a great help if they do). My second view would be to check for rotation if for some reason I am also suspicious of laminitis (metabolic syndrome horses with histories of chronic hoof abscesses as one example).  If I am starting to doubt theres an abscess, then I reach for the nerve blocks. Again I would probably have already done an x ray or two to make sure theres not a fracture I'm about to block out because no one wants to block out a non displaced fracture and have it blow to pieces once they cant feel it). 

I'm going to tread lightly about using the malpractice word on anyone... but I would say to make a mental note and maybe not use the particular person in the future if you don't like how they work. Vets arent created equally and I'd be lying if I said there weren't bad apples in the bunch (as there are bad apples in every profession).  But the best you can do is just find someone else who fits you better, or you can speak with the practice owner and give your feedback, even if they are the practice owner. Communication is key- ask questions, be involved in the exam, and if they get all huffy about it maybe its a sign to go somewhere else (there's also a fine line between being involved and being rude/pushy, JMO).  If you truly feel like animals are in danger and malpractice has occured you can complain to your state's vet board. That would be better than just word of mouth telling people not to use so and so, because I feel like that could be used against you. 

I love what you are saying.

I asked for xrays, in fact that's what I made the appointment for (farrier views). Vet refused to xray my horse and stated we need to start doing blocks to make sure thats where the soreness was coming from, and he never tested his block to see if it worked and then he sent me on my way and told me to go for a NUC MED bone scan if it didnt get better. 

I work in health care and know that thats absolute BULLS***!! xrays are the cheapest, quickest thing you can do to rule something out. Once I went to Outlaw equine, we did farrier views and my suspecions were proved correct and we were able to efficiently treat the problem. Outlaw blocked the horse as well and did make sure it worked.

I feel like the KC area vet was neglegent if nothing else. I dont want anything from them, I want people to be aware> I feel bad for the people who blindly trust this vet, he is clearly in it for the money NOT the horse.