My grey horse has been "off" running barrels...but I can't pinpoint what it is. He rides out good, doesn't take a lame step, but we have been hitting barrels, mianly 2nd, and today 2nd and 3rd. This is the same horse I thought I wasn't clicking with but I'm trying to rule out all possibilities before saying that for sure. Here's a couple of videos, one we hit 2nd barrel (just slammed into it), the other a pretty decent run (bottom of the 1D). Today we ran again (no video, the girl I asked forgot, LOL), but we had a pretty bad slip on the backside of 1st, he felt like he found a hole and his back end went out from under him, and then proceeded to hit 2nd and 3rd. What am I not seeing? Is it a hole in training or something physical? Please be kind, because I'm truly discouraged but I don't know where to look. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfL7LJtic4g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYGZztmXfo

I am not a professional, and others here can probably pick out more specifics. But what I saw in video 1 - you lined him up funny coming in. I thought you were gonna run to the left barrel first. He was really awkward once he figured out, or fixed that he needed to setup for a right turn. Also, on both videos, at the end he just finished a left turn (3rd barrel) but when you circle to slow him down he dives to the right, and looks like hes choosing that, I don't see you leaning that way or pulling his face that way. Also, the video cut off before I saw many steps, but it did look like he was a little gimpy in the back when he trotted a couple steps at the end of your circle. I'm talking about when he turned the 3rd, ran home, dove right, and as he was in that right hand turn he looked off/odd.) I would investigate in the back end. How are his hocks? Have they been x-rayed? How old is he? I saw the caption for the 1st video said less than 20 runs. Is he young?

Good luck, I hope you figure it out. 

He's 9 years old, has only been running since last July. Got him at 7 as a ranch horse. The only difference from the May run to the June run is he had shoes in June. We have been working on our approach to first to get it straightened out. We have always turned off to the right at the end, I think I accidentally started him doing that last year because my old horse did. Haven't had anything looked at yet, but haven't been able to pinpoint where to start. 

This is just my two cents, and it's probably not even worth that!!!

At first I thought you were sitting and going to the horn a little early, and needed to drive him past and/or farther. But it looks like he drops his lead in the hind and crossfires. He also does a little "bunny hop" thing going around, along with the crossfiring. The other thing I noticed is that he runs with his hind legs really close together. Almost like they're tied together, if that makes sense! I was always told that is a sign that they are hock sore.

As the above poster said, after you circled I saw he looked off in the hind. I would get him checked out. Again, it's just my opinion.

He looks like a horse that doesn't understand his job.......if you slow lope him around the barrels he should understand how to collect, set up and turn the barrel, does he do that?.......he doesn't show this in these videos. He is dropping in on his turns, teaching him to hold himself up and turn off the outside rein/aids will help, also lifting the inside rein and moving him over with your inside leg will help to keep him from dropping his shoulder. Not being able to work off his hindquarters could be causing a lot of his problems. If it is stifle problems, then he will have trouble turning, right stifle will affect left lead/turning.

 I believe he is off in the back and unwilling to get his butt under himself.

Looks extremely hock sore to me.

Beautiful horse.

He's screaming to me that he's sore in his back end- mainly hocks

He looks really sore in his hocks. He also looks choppy in the front end. Horses that are sore 8n the bottom and middle joint (TMT/DIT) very rarely flex positive in a flexion test. If he happens to be barefoot that might be why he looks choppy in front.

To answer questions, this horse does know his job, and loves it. He was professionally trained (I sent him to the trainer that trained my old horse) and gotten to the point that he was ready to enter. He does lope barrels nice and does really nice slow work. That being said, we had some good runs this spring. Hit a barrel in the practice pen once (before this all started), but made some adjustments on placement and went on thinking nothing of it. To ride out, he doesn't feel off. 

Those two videos I posted I watched and he looked off in the back, judging by how he was trying to turn and how he was running. He's always been a free runner, so the hitting barrels is not like him, usually we overrun them (my error), so he's rating way to soon, maybe I'm guessing a little front endy do to not wanting to use his back end? 

I know ya'll aren't vets, but I haven't had one run this hard (he's a step up for me) and I wanted to see if ya'll saw something I wasn't seeing. And I appreciate your input. 

ETA: So, going to the vet, where to start or what to ask him? Or what kind of appt to schedule? I know what to ask for on a PPE, but not on my own horse, LOL. 

He’s sore behind. He’s “bunny hopping” in the hind end around the barrels instead of splitting the back legs to drive through the turn. If he’s 9, he could very well be fusing which is a painful process.

I wondered about fusing as well. They would be able to see that on rad's wouldn't they?

Yes. 

When I have one that is off that I can’t point at and say look at this, I schedule a lameness evaluation. It’s a vets job to find the problem, that’s what they go to school for. I also prefer not to tell them what I think it is, and see what they say. I explain the trouble I’m having and go from there. So I would schedule a lameness evaluation and make sure to get X-rays of the hocks. If nothing is wrong with the hocks, which I’d be surprised, you at least have what they look like now. 

1. Find a good lameness vet.

2. Ask for a lameness exam. Bring your videos and let the vet watch them. 

Didn't have to watch more than the first 5 seconds of your 1D run - he's hind end sore - I'd bet money on hock sore. Get hocks injected and go from there. 

Ditto to what others are saying.  I see hind end/back soreness. 

Mine would be going to the vet, then to a chiro. 

Ask for a general lameness, bring your videos in case they want to see a run.  I doubt they will need it after seeing him move in the lameness.

Got him an appt for the day after the 4th of July...won't be running in any rodeos this 4th. But hoping to get this figured out and get him back to running. I have videos on my phone, so I'll show the vet if need be. 

Glad to hear you were able to get an appointment so quickly! I usually have to wait every bit of 4 weeks for my lameness vet....and cross my fingers for a cancellation earlier. 

Keep us posted and good luck!

He's supposed to be the best in the area and I thought he'd be out further, but I guess everyone is busy over the 4th, lol. Hope to get some answers soon! 

Glad you booked a vet exam! I hope you get some answers. He's not keeping his shoulder up, and is dropping it going into every turn. Do you have a trainer you take regular lessons with?

My goodness that horse has alot of heart, you can really see that hes got problems in the hind end, that one video were you circle its the 34 second video you can see where his stifle catches or his hock dont hold up very well where his kinda collapsed or folds that hock.. You can even see it coming out of the third barrel.. Hes hurts, I hope that you up date after the vet visit.. So I say physical, hold off on running him untill you get a answer, thats a nice horse you have there, I would hate seeing him run again.. 

Not regular lessons because she is 90 miles away, but I do go to her on things and see her at races. 

Thanks for your input, Roxie, I trust your opinion. I knew something was wrong but wasn't feeling it just riding other than he started dropping in his turns, which isnt like him. I thought it was my riding, so was trying to work on what I was doing with him. I can't feel any heat in his legs or any noticeable swelling so I'm thinking it isnt soft tissue, but you never know. I'm interested to see what the vet says. 

If you keep watching that one video you can really see something is going on, Im no expert but he looks really off, I watched that video over and over and over, even when your going into the second barrel it looks like hes sticks his back legs or leg into the ground and that cause him to hit that barrel, its like he could not bring his hind end up under himself very well, He looks like a sweet and honest boy and trying his best but his hind end wont work for him.. 

It just started about that May 15 run, as far as I know, because I ran him May 4 and we had a really nice run indoors. I love that horse and it really bothers me because we started off the year so well. He doesn't have a ton of runs (less than 20) and I don't haul hard, but when they are using their body hard I'm sure things happen. 

I'm glad he belongs to a caring person who's got his best interest at heart. . . Good luck and hoping for good report

Reading that his hind end went out from under him and then hitting 2nd and 3rd barrel, I think since you are taking him to the vet I would also ask about EPM, EMP can really mess with a horses hind end, it would be a question if I were having hind end issues on my horse along with question about hocks and stiffles. I hope that you get a good outcome once you get your horse looked at from this vet.. Good luck

Isn't EPM cause by opossum droppings? Just curious because we don't have opossums up here!

Yes opossums and I think there are other hosts too, but here in Texas opossums are a problem, horses can pick up this disease from being out in pastures or getting it from hay.. Thats good that you dont have opossums where you are at.. Epm kinda poped into my tiny brain when I reread you post about him sliping or finding a hole that made his hindend go out from under him..

I'm not doubting you, I just haven't heard of EPM in our area before. We have other rodents (skunks, rock chucks, gophers, mice, etc.) but not opossums

Y'all know I am not tech advanced!  But here's a little info!

We do have raccoons too, so maybe.

We have the luck of having all those listed except the otter!

you have Otters in R kansas 

If you don't have opposums, consider yourself super lucky! I may move there and avoid another case of EPM...harsh winters or not. LOL!!!

But in all seriousness, it may be worth asking your vet about just to rule it out. If caught early, treatment is usually a breeze. My mare came back 100% in a matter of months. 

We don't have opossums, have to go further south to see them. You can take my share of rattlesnakes though! LOL.

I feel like I'm holding my breath in suspense for the 5th, but I will update. Hopefully nothing too serious.  

Guess I should have clarified---SEA otters

The thing about great horses is that they are stoic, have heart, and try.  I think a lot of times we expect a hurting horse to just plain not work - and some of them won’t - but a lot of them will go in and try their darndest for us.

The last 2 horses I’ve hauled to a lamesness vet haven’t been off to my eye, on the footing I have, and making runs.  But they haven’t been right, and my gut has known that.  And sure enough, on hard concrete, with testers, flexions, x-rays, we found issues.  And i came home with much more comfortable horses.

Glad you’re hauling him in, he’s definitely avoiding using his hind end, which points to what other folks have already brought up.  He’s a nice looking horse - please post an update and a good run when you get back to them!

This horse works for me...and he takes care of me. My trainer could see that when he got back from her last year...way different horse for me than for her or anyone else. So I'm hoping nothing too serious...already have enough vet bills for this month! LOL. But I want it figured out.

Update after vet visit today: he passed flexion tests and hoof testers. Showed the vet the video, diagnosed as being performance induced lameness. Vet is having us do about 3 weeks of Equioxx and see if that clears it up or makes it better. If so, the plan is to xray hocks and go from there. 

I’m curious as to why the vet opted to just try Equioxx for 3 weeks and not X-ray prior to deciding what to prescribe? To me, you could very well be wasting 3 weeks and causing more problems if you continue to run him. If he needs injected, the Equioxx isn’t going to make that much difference and it’s fairly expensive.

He explained my two options, I asked which he recommended, he thought to try this first since he was getting absolutely nothing wrong out of him on the lameness exam. I showed him video as well. He's the highest recommended lameness vet for our area, so I trust his opinion. I have just not dealt with a mystery lameness like this. 

ETA: I forgot to mention I'm supposed to call or text the vet in a week to report how he's doing. 

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Mtcanchazer, was thinking about this thread/you today and was curious how your gelding is doing? Any definitive answers on him? 

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