So, my horse is the kind that people have always given up on. He’s been passed around and clashed with previous owners. He’s a hard horse to ride. Lots of horse. Very sensitive racing bred (hot)

The thing is, he’s really athletic, gorgeous stride etc I have gotten him very far. Further than anyone has in the past. We’ve worked through buddy soreness, nervousness, insecurity, being out of balance.... all sorts of things. Him and i have actually done well together though it’s had to go slow.

Here’s the issue. When I first got him he’d pin his ears and swish his tail when I’d ask him to work hard for anything. For example if he was side passing too lazily and I picked him up and pushed him over he’d do it, if I wanted him to do roll backs more snappy and pushed him he’d do it, if I wanted him to collect up more and use his body more he did it. Also when I really ask him to drive out of a turn he can do it too. Now it’s much better but can still come out at a lesser level when something is hard for him. He’s just not very willing and let’s you know when he’s ****ed.

Well until now, I’ve kind of ignored it bc it’s gotten so much better and it’s never turned into something bigger.

Well yesterday it did, I was at a race and he started to hump up around 3rd and get attitudey, I went to push him through it and run home (I don’t wear spurs, don’t  use a whip and I was not pulling on his face at all in this moment) he decided to jump and lurch forward, then jump and kick and basically rag dolled the crap out of me. I couldn’t get him to stop and eventually got me off. Probably the worst fall I’ve had and I’ve been riding since I was 5, I’m 31 now.

So here is my plan moving forward and I’d love input. Put him on a consistent 6 day a week schedule, do arena every other day and do outside field riding and training the other days. Dedicate each arena day to some different goal and then when i get the attitude I stop doing what we’re doing and start doing something really hard for 5 minutes then take him back to what we were doing and see if the tude comes back if not, do the maneuver once without attitude, then stop and praise the crap out of him. Thoughts? Additions? I’ve never been a natural horsemanship person but maybe some of that would be good for ground stuff? Any other ideas?

I really don’t think it’s just a not liking barrel racing thing. I think he just has an attitude about anything that requires him to work really hard! It’s gotten way better but i think it’s the reason this happened yesterday. The fact that he got so mad that he wouldn’t stop till I came off is a big sign that I need to focus on this.

Ps he has been fully vet checked by a lameness professional and had his teeth done. Gets his feet done every 6 weeks. Only thing i thought I should check is scoping for ulcers....

Do you enjoy this horse? Does he make riding/barrel racing enjoyable? Are you just mentally set to make him something because of all the prior hands he has passed through?

I'd try to work some cows on him somewhere in there, if you're heck bent on making this horse work for you. Get his mind off other things... I know from experience,  sometimes no matter how hard you try or what you do, there are just some that cant be fixed and it's not worth getting rag dolled over. 

I do enjoy him, we have great rides together and have made so much progress together. I’m not at a point yet where I’m willing to throw in the towel until i know Ive done what I can to the best of my ability.

i never would have thought he’d do what he did yesterday. 

I just went to a Ron Ralls clinic with him on Monday and he did greatttt! 

Im just trying to figure out why.... and the only reason i can think is his attitude 

Good luck to you. Sounds like you have come a long ways with this horse and you have a lot of try!

Attitude and willingness are tough. If you find the secret fix to that, please post it.

IMHO the horse is trying to tell you something.  

I highly suspect PSSM 2.  FB has a PSSM forum.  Join and learn symptoms

and how to care for them. 

How old is this horse? 

He’s 11, he’s been ranched on and trail rode, breezed, rd bareback, swam. He’s gone running into a barrel pen with his ears pricked forward without me even pushing him to go. He doesn’t hate the job. It’s like he gets mad at me for asking more from him....

I feel like I’ve been letting him keep part of his tude bc it hasn’t been a real issue until yesterday. So I need to change up what I’m doing with him and try and address it. I know he won’t be that horse that is so willing and trying to please but I do think we can get better than this.....

I know i sound stubborn but I’ve already gotten him so far.... I’d love advice on anyone who’s delt with issues with attitude and disrespect with their horse 

Well, since you had just been to a clinic, he could have been sore and felt he had to yell at you to get your attention. Something isn’t right. 

Sounds spoiled. Tie him for a couple hours before you ride, tie him for a couple hours after. I’d say he needs to know what a hard days work is. Do you know any trainers that work on a large ranch? Long days pushing cows might do him a world of good. 

Ride him every day possible -- working him into a good sweat (not working on barrels - just general riding on the basics).  Tie him up for a couple of hours afterwards.  Consistent riding and handling usually do a great deal to adjust attitude. 

I guess I'm the odd man out..................why deal with a horse like that?  sounds like a full time job?  I wouldn't put up with a boyfriend like that or a horse.  They cost to much to feed and upkeeep...............I would sell or unload him and buy something that respects me and all the work I put into them....................just like men.............the good ones are out there you just have to find them................

Not every horse out there will make a barrel horse, and it don't sound like this horse wants to be one, he may be better at a different thing like just being a ranch horse, maybe a roping horse or a team penning horse, I would sell him and just move on if barrels is what you are wanting to do. I feel sorry for horses like this they get passed around so much untill they are fired.. 

Ulcers? Teeth?

If he is high strung,as you say,I would definatly treat for ulcers.And maybe instead of working hard every day,give him a break now and then.Be sure to treat hind gut ulcers as well.What are you feeding??

This gilding sounds like one I had a while back. I had him for three years; broke as all get out.. BUT.. needed some work when I got him. He had an attitude. He was a great trail horse..would go anywhere you asked him to go. He'd work cattle,  but not without an occasional fuss. He'd do barrels and poles..but it was a hit or miss. He wouldn't buck.. but he'd literally just either stop at a dead run or take the bit and take you for a ride. I tried REALLY hard with him..gave him a year off just to do trails.  He liked that. Anything else, not so much. I eventually sold him when he tried running me up a fence for the last time. It stopped being worth it.

If you are hell bent on keeping this horse, I'd check him and treat him for Ulcers. That was real anxious when I got him..he had ulcers pretty bad and I treated him for Ulcers he did a 180 on that. Now will it treat the attitude? Not sure. The little **** would bite me every once in a while out of the blue.. I seriously think he did it because he was bored. 

I personally wouldn't put too much more effort into him if I were you. There are a lot of good horses out there that are willing to work. 

I'd love some more back story on him. You said he's 11. How long have you had him? How many owners (to your knowledge) did he have so far?

Was he already running barrels when you got him? Or have you trained him yourself? Is he "finished"?

For a barrel racing horse, it doesn't make sense to me that he doesn't want to work (lazy) yet is sensitive and hot. Usually, that doesn't go together. The sensitive/hot ones usually have all sorts of energy. I would really, really question if this horse is still hurting somewhere even though you said he's been checked over. Ditto to some of the suggestions that were already made.

Most horses try to do what you ask. For one to have a total attitude and be a pain to work with, yes, it could be behavioral from past experiences, but I would also want to be 1000% sure there wasn't something that was hurting them to give them this attitude. Because it's just not the nature for most horses. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's just not common. He is clearly very unhappy about something; the tricky part is figuring out WHAT.

Jumping up going around the Barrels sure sounds like kissing spines to me. 

We have a reining horse that has pretty much the same attitude. The root of his problem is ulcers.  I would definitely have him scoped!!!

Ulcers, rethink feed program. Eliminate as much starch as you can from his diet. Horses are rarely “spoiled” for long when a good rider takes the time to show them the boundaries. Sounds like you have come a long way before now. If he did not buck with you before now, and If ulcer treatment and diet adjustment don’t make a difference, I would suspect pain somewhere. 

Like several have mentioned the nervous/race bred then lazy doesn't really go together.. I'd step back and address ulcers even if they aren't confirmed. (I like Zesterra but there are others) I'd love to see a video of him working.  Then I'd deal with body soreness or pain and then step up the riding and keep doing the drills. If he did them great at the clinic then maybe he is sore..

Agree with all the replies! If he's worth it to you, I'd treat him for ulcers and go get xrays for kissings spine. Rule out the above before calling him spoiled and making him even more sore! (if he already is!) give him one more chance to shine and then I would throw in the flag and let him do something else if he doesn't step it up. My horse has an attitude, but she would never throw me off unless something was WRONG! Personal opinion, if he really loved his job he wouldn't pull that, and if it's JUST an attitude problem, it's not worth the blood, sweat, and tears. 

I would schedule a vet appointment and not try and pin point it to one particular thing. Tell the vet the whole story, let them do a complete and thorough physical examination, and then address the things other people have mentioned.  Laziness is one thing- throwing you off is another. I have had a lot of laid back/lazy horses, but none of them bucked.  It's a lot of work to buck, especially to throw you off like he did. I'd be starting from square one with a vet who does a lot of lameness/sports med work and see what they can find. 

what did Ron Ralls say when you asked him?

I'd definitely look into ulcers.  And I agree 100% with the above about PSSM2.  It is a muscle disease (not like PSSM1, which is a starch/sugar issue) and usually affects them later in life, anywhere from 6 up.  Refusing, "sticky" legs, bucking, spooking, bolting, hard to hold feet for a farrier - are a few of the symptoms.  Some have muscle episodes where the muscles kind of quiver/move - almost like shivering.  Some tie up.  Some just get nasty.  All due to pain.  Join the PSSM Forum on Facebook and pick brains on there.  Post his breeding (a picture of his papers or the link to allbreed pedigree) and some of the knowledable people can see if he has suspects in his breeding.  There are recommended diets too that can help many of them but there is no cure.