Please! I haven't had to deal with this personally until now. My horse, hes 16yrs old was just recently diagnosed with chronic laminitis. Hes currently on stall rest for 30 days with daily bute and soft rides (which I haven't gotten yet, but they are on their way) vet shared with 2 of my farriers... yes, they both know and work on my horses when one can't do it... they work together on several cases and in my opinion,  the best guys for the job! So I feel confident in that area that between both of them theyll know what needs to be done. My main concern is diet related. I was told by my vet to put the horse on well solve ... I dont want to use that stuff, I've fed it in the past to an older horse with ringbone and he needed to drop weight.. this horse wouldn't touch this stuff... none of my horses would eat it.. I tried. Its extremely expensive and I'm just not a fan :-/ ... vet said fine, low starch... low NSC you can get.. so I picked up Bluebonnet X factor ... comes in at 10% NSC. feeding rate is 4lbs per day... horse eats it readily so no problem there getting his thyro-l in him.. vet also put him on that .. he wants some weight off him and said this would help him out. I'm not feeding him 4lbs but wondering if I should be .. I'm doing closer to 2lbs.. I'm kinda scared to give him too much feed! Every feed, I've fed I always kept it around 5lbs per day and fed lots of grass hay. I just want to do right with him and get him better. For those that dealt with this type of thing what did you do to help your horse? Feed wise, supplements? I've got some BOT wraps I use on him and i have some BOT therapeutic bell boots coming too. I was wondering if a ration balancer would be better for this case or not? I'm not giving him the recommended amount of x factor because hes overweight as it is... ???? Help! 

my vet had me take one completely off grain. soaked bermuda grass hay only, all she can eat. (soaked put water on hay 30 min b4 feeding to release sugar)

But I've also been reading that soaking the hay will remove vital nutrients and minerals the horse needs to be able to recover. I've been soaking his hay and the water is BROWN when I'm done. I feed coastal.. no idea what the NSC is but my husband cousin grows it and cuts it in the summer months, we typically buy a 1st cutting and then another 100 on 2nd cutting and sometimes 3rd... just depends. My sister in law has a mare that had severe laminitis, really bad... she couldn't walk and had rotation. This same vet, had her put her on well solve and hay.. also this mare is in foal... they did not advise her to soak her hay and we get it from the same field every year. Her horse made a full recovery and her x rays are almost completely back to normal... we also use the same farriers. 

we also feed moormans growstrong mineral.

The loose minerals? Just by itself? I'm just wondering if I should try to feed a ration balancer instead of the x factor but the protein content might be an issue for laminitis? I know I have so many questions! I also know vets do not do much on the nutrition side .... seems like this particular vet recommends either purina sr or well solve to EVERYONE that steps foot in there. Only thing I've read that's consistent is staying under 12% NSC with a feed for laminitis. I dont want to starve my horse or neglect his vitamin/mineral needs during this time. I know its vital to his recovery. 

we use tubs in pasture and loose mineral for performance horses that are kept up in small traps/runs.

I havent dealt with laminitis but with epm. I used Joni McKim and its the best thing I ever did!  Both my horses are getting compliments on how they look!  Ive tried alot of feed and variations and suggestions for a long time and finally! ugg! .  You just gotta keep trying til you find what works for your horse.  What caused his laminitis?

I dont believe in cutting back on horses feed bc they are not like us.    Their system is so different than ours! 

The horse is worse... even more worse then when I first discovered it. Hes never done well being stalled for long periods of time... I know the vet said to leave him up but I'm so tempted to turn him out.. we have no grass it's just dead winter grass and very little of it. He seemed better when I left him out the first night. Hes standing so bad, hes ripping his tail out.. I put it up because hes got a very long thick tail that drags the ground. I dont even think the bute is making a dent! No heat in his legs or feet this morning,  just looks so stiff and uncomfortable he can barely walk but he darn sure has an appetite 

The inflammation and swelling in the wall of the hoof is very painful and causes the coffin bone to rotate.  The coffin bone is like a little hoof inside the hoof and when it rotates (turns down because of the swelling) that part of the coffin bone can be very near the sole and it hurts for the horse to walk on it.  I've lost one horse to laminitis and two of my very good friends have also.  In the end all of our efforts along with huge veterinary bills were a lost cause and we had to put our horses down.  Anybody contributing a better description.....welcome.  It's been a long time since I dealt with this but I did try to understand it.

Wrap your hand around your horses hooves and you'll probably feel the heat.  Keep trying and I know you will because we all love our horses but sometimes this condition is very hard to deal with.  

What is causing the laminitis. Have you had him tested for Cushings and insulin resistance?

Recently dealt with this in August.  10-yr-old gelding that is out to pasture 24/7, never had a health issue and has the best feet of any horse I've owned.  Past summer he looked as though he was slowly gaining weight and then foundered in fall.  No rotation. Farrier set up special shoes with a form-a-hoof silicone padding built inside.  That did wonders.  Kept him in a stall for a month with hay (sometimes I soaked it).  Yes, he lost a lot of weight but needed to lose anyway.  Vet suspected EMS but bloodwork came back Cushings as the cause.  A 10-yr-old with Cushings?  Way too young.  It's frustrating but he recovered from the founder.  He is back on straight pasture/hay now as before (for winter anyway).  I've lost my best horse to founder years ago so I know where Frodo is coming from.  

I want to give you a huge hug! Laminitis is so difficult...there aren't any cures...all we can do is try to keep them comfortable for as long as we can. I lost a good horse to this a few years ago. Once the bone starts to rotate, there's no bringing it back. It is so difficult to watch horses go through this. Try to just keep him comfortable, and if it keeps getting worse...you'll know when it's time. I am so sorry you are going through this!

I've been awake all night reading about this awful thing! I feel strung out!  Ok so per the vet there is no rotation or very very minut ... I have photos on my phone from the xrays I can share if anyone wants to see and maybe share some input. I hope and pray it's not a lost cause... we've had this boy less than a year but we are all so attached to him already. I am going to have him tested for cushings Saturday morning when I can get him to do a fast and have the time in the morning to get over there. Vet said possibly cushings as hes 16 but not sure... does anyone know how much a cushings test is? I thought the vet said it was a blood test?? 

I know zero about Cushings Disease but out of curiousity looked up how Secretariat's laminitis came about.  It was Cushings.  He got better and then worse.... humanely put down at the age of 19.

My cushings gelding gets it, plus he has thin/soft soles which doesn't help. Keeping him stalled makes it 10x worse, I try not to stall him unless I have to. My farrier put shoes & pads on him a couple weeks ago for the hard frozen ground. He eats around 2lbs of Kalm N Ez daily and he gets alfalfa hay and some soaked alfalfa pellets. If it is a metabolic issue, like cushings, alfalfa is lower NSC and usually lower in sugar than grass. He lives on a dry lot, where I board there's 10 horses on less than 2 acres so grass doesn't exist for any of them which works in his favor. I've used the buteless in the past with good results, but if your guy isn't responding to bute then that may not work for him. If he is a fairly easy keeper I wouldn't hesitate to switch to ration balancer. I had good luck with mine on one of the Progressive ones a few years ago. I just had to travel too far to get it at the time. If yours does come back with cushings if you test, I've had great luck with SmartPaks Smart Pituitary supplement. It's kept me able to avoind the Rx meds for years now. Took about 4 months to really get a difference in him, but it helps a lot & is very affordable. 

Cushings test is bloodwork.  The vets around here get a couple of free tests every fall so I was fortunate to be able to jump on that offer.  I believe my vet quoted somewhere between $150-180 as original cost.  I need to look up the SmartPak recommendation....

Thanks for the replies. Hes getting worse it seems. I took him out of his stall today... had to drag him. I cold hosed his legs to get rid of the swelling from being stalled and he started walking a little better after about 15 minutes of hosing. We let him walk over to the dirt pile where he likes to roll and he looked like he wanted to but I think it's too painful to try to get back up so he didnt :-(  my softrides should be arriving tomorrow... but for the time being my farrier had me get some magic cushion and I packed him with a diaper and some vet wrap... gave him a bit more bute and put him back up. I'd like to say he was better, but hes not. His condition is getting worse and we dont even know why because his xrays werent that bad .. you can see the slight inflammation but its honestly not bad enough to be this painful in both my farriers opinion... we talked on the phone today with the vet and them... i cannot afford much more xrays and this n that... I'm trying my best to get him better or at least comfortable.. I just feel awful I sat in his stall and bawled my eyes out after I packed his feet. Hes not interested in eating his feed tonight but is eating hay and drinking water. He kept almost falling over when I was packing his feet. I'm mentally trying to prepare myself for the worst case scenario... if hes not better in a week or so, I'll try pulling his shoes and just turning him out in our dry lot and see... and if that doesnt help or he gets worse I know what has to be done. I cant stand seeing him like this. Hes not a wimpy horse so I know the pain is bad for him. My BOT wraps took his swelling out wonderfully this evening and he seemed a little more comfortable with them on. 

How much bute are you giving him? I would not give him any feed at all even when you think he would eat it, just hay. How fresh is your hay? I cant feed my IR gelding fresh hay at all and I have to feed hay that is not fertilize, his hay has to be older cut hay, if he gets hay thats high in sugar he will have a relapse and then his laminitis will kick back in, I have to be really carefull of his hay. 

When my gelding was first diagnosed I thought the worst, he was laying down and had a pulse in his left front hoof, it was awefull I thought I would have to put him down, but keeping him on bute the first week and doing everything my Vet asked me to do he pulled out of it, the first week was really hard on the both of us, he had to stay in a smaller pen where he could lay down and rest, I let him rest all he wanted the first week, but he had to have a pen to beable to lay down without worrying about a wall or getting hung up. The right amount of bute and the right type of hay was the key to getting him to wear he could get better. You horse needs to beable to lay down and rest himself.. But dont put him in a tiny stall make a pen big enough to move around and stretch out while he lays down.

We have a mare with EMS. She gets fed the wellsolve, around 1 to 1.5 lbs amorning and night. It’s very good stuff. I hope you can get it under control. We buy tested hay for my EMS mare. Cushing test is a great idea. And early morning and evening grass is terrible. Late fall early winter grass has quite a bit of sugar in it too. We feed a tested Tifton 85 to keep NSC down. 

I had hoped for a good report today. . . . I'll keep him in prayers

I'm giving him 2grams of bute once a day per the vets instructions.... he said for 7 consecutive days with the bute. I've thought about pulling his feed. But vet gave me a powder to give him to help with his thyroid said put it on his grain. His grain is now 10% NSC. I give only a pound twice a day. Not even the recommended amount of this feed which is supposed to be designed for this type of thing.  I'm willing to try pretty much anything at this point. That I can afford, that is. My stalls are big ... 12 x 24  hes got plenty of room to move, lay down, roll etc etc... problem is, he doesnt! He stands in 1 spot when hes stalled.  

We put up our hay in june/july every year.... this year we did 2nd cutting. 

Your vet needs to test him! Do it asap.  I had a 12 year old Thoroughbred mare with chronic laminitis in just one front foot. Tested for Cushings and insulin resistance and to our suprise she was positive to both.  She wasn't even over weight... And only 12!  We swtiched her to really low starch diet like triple crown lite, stopped any kind of pasture turn out, and put her on Cushings med prascend. She never really had an issue again. Yearly I'd retest her just to check her ACTH levels for Cushings and insulin since that can elevate. If it does you adjust the prascend dosage. The cost is about 150 dollars or so. 

Also if your horse is having active laminitis I would not be turning him out. He should be bedded deep in a stall. Any extra concussion on his feet is not good. I also had a mare that reacted to a weed in our hay back in 2014. This was new hay we started feeding... 8 horses on it and she was the only one who had a problem. We didn't even know what it was right away.  She spent 7 days at our University vet. Luckily she got better once pulled off the hay.  When she was at the vet they put soft rides on and said it was really important to stall to limit coffin bone displacement increasing the chance of rotation. 

second cutting hay will usually test way high for what you are trying to avoid.

Well there isnt much I can do about it at this point with the hay situation.  I've got 100 plus bales in my barn and really no other options but to just soak it out. My sister in laws mare is on the exact same hay from the exact same field and cutting, her mare had extreme laminitis with rotation and she feeds her this hay, not even soaked, our vet didnt advise it to be soaked... her horse made a full recovery with being barefoot and trimmed, stalled, turned out with a muzzle and fed well solve in tiny amounts... plus shes in foal ... idk.. I'm just exhausted from reading everything and everyone including vets say different things ... I'm just sick over it. I cant afford more testing or supplements or special this or that.. I'm sorry I'm just defeated 

Hang in there!  I would ice his feet as much as possible!  at least morning and night  It will help. 

Thank you, that's what my farrier said to do. I'm going to do it today. I just feel like whatever decision I make is the wrong one with him! Thinking about trying some stuff called speedi beet I can get from a local friend to try and just giving him a vit/min mix with it instead of grain... the speedi beet is only 5% sugar and literally no starch.... its inexpensive and right up the road from me. Every grain or ration balancer out here has molasses, soy, grain products, alfalfa and anywhere from 10 to 14% NSC  all of which I've been reading are bad for laminitis. And seriously,  why is every support group or discussion group on laminitis on Facebook not in the US?! They are discussing and recommending things I've never even heard of lol! 

When deciding remember that the NSC level is based on the recommended feeding rate. If you have a higher fat feed that you can feed less of, then your NSC will be lower. When I fed my horses the Pro Force Fuel they were barely getting any and keeping weight, and the NSC was way lower than whats listed. The one I feed now has no corn or molasses in it and is 13.5% NSC based on at least 4 lbs feeding. Mine eat half that which lowers the total NSC intake. But I agree with above statement, while an attack is happening pull as much grain from him as you can. If you have powder he needs to get in him wet some grain down and mix the powder with it. You could also probably get by with doing 2g bute in am and 1g at night. I won't hesitate to give mine 3-4g short term for intense pain like that. You mentioned packing his feet with a diaper, you can soak the diapers in water & freeze them & wrap them around the foot for icing. You could probably even stick soem ice cubes inside after you wrap it. Diapers are super handy in a barn 

Once you get this horse back to feeling better and can move around without much pain I would not stall him up for anything anymore just a large pen, I went and bought portable panels to extend Melvins pen and fenced off a area for his own use so he can run and play but unable to get to green grass. The more they can move around and keep that blood flowing in thier hooves the better He gets one and a half pound ofTriple Crown Lite morning and evening and MVP anti-carb supplement, hes been off his Thyrol-L for a little over a year now and just gets the MVP anti-carb and Forgo, older hay thats not heavy fertilize unfertilize hay is alot better for him, no other supplements, hes got thin soles so I keep shoes on his fronts, he did go barefooted for a couple of months because of a abscess in his left but put shoes back on once we won that war on the abscess from he**. Theres going to be trial and error, but you will find what works and not work as you go along, hes just not going to beable to go out to pasture like the others anymore, I do let Melvin go out now since the freeze has killed off all the good grass and during the summer months when its dry as in no rain for a hour or two once a week. New spring grass is the worst. The best thing I could do for Melvin when he got to feeling better is give him alot of room to move around in, they need to beable to keep the blood flowing in their hooves by walking and running. Good luck..

Thank yall! Yes today we are icing him ... then my husband is going to make a temporary run off his stall so he can get outside ... I've also got a load of brick sand coming to put in his stall and run... my husbands cousins own a dirt hauling company so we are fortunate there... I'm going to try the beet  pulp and she also suggested coolstance in tiny amounts which she also carrys ... she said she has a horse that was exactly like mine ... we are small town and we all go to the same vet ... she said the vet told her to put the horse down or he will only be a pasture ornament... she did her research and changed his diet up and the horse is back to full use ... gives me a little hope ... but cautiously optimistic..... ice boots, softrides, proper trimming, possibly barefoot or special shoes if he needs them and NO GRAIN. I'm only giving him soaked hay for now ...he wont touch his x factor anyway.. which is so odd because that stuff smells amazing! Like cotton candy my kids say. Hopefully he will like the speedi beet and coolstance 

Frozen diapers! Genius idea! Thank you! I was up all night checking on him.. I was relieved to see him laying down in his stall... he rarely does that... I was hoping hed take a load off soon and rest... instead of just standing in 1 spot all night. He laid down for about 20 minutes then he was back up. I'm anxiously waiting for the softrides to arrive!  The packing with magic cushion and diapers seemed to offer very little relief but I did notice he was standing more straight up and down instead of leaning back on his hind feet so much. I may bute him a little more this morning instead of waiting till the evening. I also have a vial of banamine available. 

I went out and checked on him a few minutes ago.. hes actually walking about 30% better! He followed me to his feed bucket which he had eaten the feed last night but managed to leave the powder behind.. the thyro-l... naughty boy! I decided to hang his hay net up to head level so he doesnt have to lower his head down to eat and put more pressure on his front end... for now anyway.. I know its more natural to feed with head down and I usually do that. He seems happier with this right now.. this is the straightest ive seen him standing within the last several days I feel a little better right now .... I never know what I'm going to see when I walk out to the barn right now

Hes going to be just fine as the days go by he'll get better. You need to look into the MVP ani-carb, its a pellet supplement and he will eat it, since the Thyro-L is a power my gelding hardly ate it, since his feed is a pellet too the powder would just go straight to the bottom of his feeder, the ani-carb no problem he eats it well. My gelding hates all power supplements.. 

Is that similar to the thyro-l ? He never has been a picky eater but boy he sure doesnt like the powder! He will eat the x factor right from my hand but not with the powder 

I'd put him on Heiro. I fed it to my IR horse for many years and it works amazing, and it won't break the bank.

Where do I find that? I'm really planning on taking him off all grain and doing the speedi- beet with coolstance with a vit/min mix. California trace plus comes highly recommended for laminitis horses from what I've read. Im still researching but so far the common denominator seems to be removing grain, molasses and excess sugars for success and avoiding heavy amounts of alfalfa 

I found it, thank you. That looks like a wonderful product with the vitamin E and magnesium.. both of which was recommended for laminitis horses. I do use Mag Restore on my other horse so I know the benefits from supplementing magnesium.  I was just thinking he probably could benefit from extra vitamin e since he cant be on grass ... the Heiro seems to cover those bases. 

I had my gelding on Heiro for a year and never saw a difference, the MVP products have been the Best, you have your Anti-Carbs and the D-Carb and these have been the only products that worked best in his case. But every horse is different.. MVP is a really good company and will answer all your questions if you call them.

Just an idea, something that helped me ice my horse's feet when I couldn't get him to pick them up. Fill a safeway type bag about half full of ice, and tie the bag around his ankles. Then drape the bag over and around his whole foot :) Wish I had a pic to show you better! I hope I'm explaining it ok enough. 

What feed are you feeding now that's corn and molasses free? I need to add this horse WAS on nutrena when we bought him... he was being roped on daily and went all day... he said it was nutrena in a green plain bag and he added in topline balance to his rations.. he also said at certain times of the year he fed pro force fuel but only for a few months at a time.. it kinda confused me but the horse looked and moved fantastic. I put him on purina when we got him home... now hes on the bluebonnet x factor which he hates! :-(   I'm not a nutrena feeder but I have to admit the horse looked pretty darn outstanding when I went to get him. 

Alfalfa is still better than grass hay, grass hay is higher in NSC & sugar. Mine eats 25lbs of straight alfalfa a day just fine 

That's what I thought but the vet said avoid alfalfa ... lol! See what I mean.. its crazy...  I put him on  a very alfalfa based feed and this happened to him so this just may be a case where hes ultra sensitive to alfalfa in more amounts ... I feel like most of the feeds are alfalfa based or at least have alfalfa in the ingredients. 

I feed Tribute Kalm N Ez pellet. He gets 1 cup of MaxE Glo rice bran meal with it and I soak some alfalfa pellets too. He eats a mash basially, he used to get impacted a lot & the wet food keeps it pushing through. He's done well on it. I also fed the Progressive Nutrition Grass Advantage ration balancer. I think its called ProElite Grass Advtantage now, I chose it over the alfalfa because it was higher protein and he's in his late 20s so he needs extra protein. It was super nice because I didn't even have to feed a pound a day. It was basically just one cup in the morning & night. A bag would last like 3-4 weeks, but I just had to drive too far to get it. If you can find that in your area I highly recommend it too, I believe it is 13% NSC but again I didn't have to feed as much as it said to. But my horses are also on Exceed 6-Way, Gastro-Plex, and Vitamin E so most of the extra nutritional needs are met. I also would recommend the Anti-Carb, I haven't personally used it yet but if he progresses more I might. Everyone seems to like it that use it 

 Please don't take this the wrong way but maybe get a second opinion? Alfalfa is a lot lower in startch and sugar.  Its just very nutrition dense.  Before you go buying this supplement or that grain since you are on a budget get him tested for Cushings and insulin resistance. It's important you find the cause so you can actually maintain him. Like I said my mare was 12 and diagnosed with Cushings and insulin resistance... 16 isn't unrealistic for either disease. 

Vet told me $200 for cushings test. I'll have to wait a few weeks on that. I'm not buying anything new until then. I'm just trying to plan and research as much as I can. Last thing I need is more worthless supplements for him. Im doing what I can at home right now to get and keep him the most comfortable until I figure out if he has a metabolism disorder or whatever it is. I may call around and see if I can get the test cheaper.. my sister got lucky and got a free one done on her horse earlier this year... I need that right about now! 

Well hopefully you'll get it figured out. But unfortunately the only way you'll know is if you run the test.  He may get better again then have another episode of laminitis in the mean time. If there's one thing you could do for him now to prevent further issues it's to just do it so you know how to go forward.  I don't mean to sound like a broken record but I saw earlier how worried you were about him and he was in pain... actually getting the test done is probably the cheapest part of any treatment you'll deal with if you prolong it more. 200 is honestly cheap insurance compared to the cost of injections ect... We spend on our horses just to maintain them to compete.

Oh believe me if I had an extra $200 laying around it would be done. I just simply dont right now. Some people will say I shouldn't own horses if I cant afford a measly $200 for a test but whatever.. I just spent $600 on xrays, lameness exams and boots for him. We live week to week at times and Christmas just passed so it's been extra snug. The xrays didnt give us very much to go by to be honest... I mean I'm glad we got them done but there wasnt really anything alarming on them other than slight inflammation and him needing his toe trimmed back some 10mm. And being that I just recently changed his feed and this happened the vet and my farrier both think I may have triggered it with that. The only "sign" he has that may point to cushings, is his age,  and that's right from the vets mouth. He doesnt have much anything else other than a laminitic flair up which is a big deal, dont get me wrong! I'm going to have him tested next week to give me some peace of mind. Then I'll know and can move on 

When you feed them good feed, supplement them well, provide good hay, and vet/farrier them regularly. . . Well, that next "measly $200" can push you over.   We all know you love him much and are doing best by him.   I know no one on this thread thinks otherwise--we all know how expensive these things are.  Hugs and prayers

I hear you there! I bet the change in feed effected him because he does have a metabolic issue. In my experience if feeds are changed slowly they should not react with something like laminitis unless they are a metabolic horse. 

Ok to be clear, so I understand,  Cushing's and IR are two completely different things? He will need to be tested for both? Hopefully the IR test will be a little less expensive! I always thought cushings and IR were kinda the same situation. 

On a lighter note... Chuy is doing better tonight! He is walking more willingly, still really sore but definitely improving! We pulled him out and did an ice bucket treatment got him to tolerate 15 minutes each side before he decided he didnt want to cooperate anymore. My husband put up some panels coming out of his stall so he could get outside in a smaller corner of the yard ... barely any grass right there coming up.. it's pretty dry lotted.. after his ice treatment I buted him a little more and put my BOT on him .. he walked slowly "outside " in his new mini run and seemed to enjoy the sunshine he was walking around slowly and much better! His eyes seem brighter today, less depressed.  I put him back up in the stall after 20 minutes of being outside and then we repacked him with the magic cushion and diapers  .. my boots didnt show up today, unfortunately... ups tracking now says Thursday :-(   so the good news is, he seems to be slowly improving now.. 

A lot of times they test together initially.

Well we got thru new years eve fireworks extravaganza (eye roll) ok.. my horses were stalled and didnt seem too uptight with all the ruckus from the neighbors. I'm happy to report chuy is looking better and better each day. I was up all night because of the fireworks and worrying about my boys in the barn... so I read ... and read ... and read.. just some observations... seems like folks in the UK deal with laminitis a lot more than we do! The last one I read was from Australia... They have completely different procedures and protocols. Not saying they dont work but I just found it interesting how they treat and handle their laminitis horses. They have an emergency diet. All our "American" grain, even the low NSC and feeds made for IR or cushings is BAD. Idk.. it made me wonder though... i dont even recognize pretty much all of their suggested feeds or hay ... I reached out on a Facebook group but it was UK and was pretty much told our vets and farriers dont know squat Lol! Maybe so... i see my horse slowly improving with what I'm doing so far so I'm not going to change it up right now. Just going to keep him comfortable so he can heal.. hes happy with his small dry lot run, just getting out in fresh air does wonders for him.. hes starting to eat his food and supplements more readily and looks more perky than he has in the last few days.  I thought the treatments and supplements available to us was overwhelming but now that I'm researching laminitis holy cow! Talk about overwhelming! 

Happy New Year, Chuy!!!!   So glad each day is better

I've got the horse in soft rides now and he seems just a little more comfortable... not much but its better than it was.  I thought we were getting better but that was short lived. I had my farrier and trusted friend out this morning and he pulled his shoes off on my request for now and his opinion as well. He said his soles appeared to have dropped... so that's not good. We put the softrides back on him and let him be ... he looked to be walking slightly better after that. He suggested more xrays from a different vet, he recommends. He said to me it's highly unlikely but not completely out of the question, but hes seen it before, the horse will probably never be able to perform again, he straight up told me, the horse is crippled. I knew it. So now I'm at that point what do I do... more xrays, more tests, more $$$$ I dont have .... do I just leave him be and see what happens as long as hes comfortable? I'm doing everything I possibly can to keep him comfortable... the boots are helping tremendously but hes still sore ... I've taken him off all grain and just giving him soaked hay and beet pulp with some salt and minerals in it. Hes eating happily, alert and doesnt appear to be in horrible amounts of pain. I know he cant live on bute ... but I gave him some more after my farrier left to try to ease him a little. I'm very tempted to get another set of more thorough xrays to just verify what my guy said. I trust him 1000% hes not my normal farrier I use for stuff... hes a trusted friend of my family and works a ton of laminitis cases for a few clinics and has seen it all. He didn't take a dime from me today or the last 3 times hes come out here to look at him, I insisted to at least pay for his fuel and he refused it. We both agreed testing for cushings and IR is moot at this point, the damage to the hoof has been done... we just decided to feed him like an IR horse and keep the sugar and starch out of his diet. No grains, no molasses and no sugars/starches... I'd personally rather spend the money on more xrays than blood testing theyll run roughly the same by the time they test for both. It doesn't matter at this point if he has it or not... Cushing's medication will not reverse the founder. I dont think anyway... kinda just writing my thoughts down as they come. I'm so sick over this... it's been a huge learning experience if anything. My good horse is fat, cresty in the neck and now I'm working feverishly to get him back into his work clothes... his diet is changed as well.  I feel terrible this happened I feel like it's my fault. 

He also told me hes going to talk to a colleague of his and pick his brain about a clog shoe? I think that's what he said.. he told me this vet he recommends will be able to see how much blood is getting to the hoof as well, we need to know that if we are going to make a go at this. Clog shoes would stimulate circulation in the hoof. But I'm here trying to decide if it's worth it.. of course if I had an endless healthy cash flow, I'd be doing all of it right now but it's just not the case. You know, how is it my neighbors who do nothing with their horses has a mare founder and they did ZERO, no xrays no nothing other than keep her off the grass and then put a muzzle on her and turned her out and she makes a full recovery with nothing, no vet, no pain meds... nothing... shes older than my gelding ... it just doesnt seem fair.. just the way it is I guess.

Your story is similar to mine and my gelding.  This has been at least 10 years ago but there's not a doubt in my mind losing him the way I did was my fault.  I overfed him.  He was too fat and since he was old (21) and on grass I didn't think about the consequences.  I vetted and farriered and fretted not knowing what to do until his pain became more than I could stand to see and I had him put down.  It was the right decision but it wasn't an easy one.

If you can wait til spring Boehringer Ingelheim does the Cushings Test and PPID year for free through your bet ( at least they have every year for the last few years). You just have blood drawn at the vet and they send it in to BI. Ask your vet about the program  

Yeah ... I probably overfed mine... I mean I dont give a ton but I buy the best, in my opinion, and tend to feed them like they are in heavy use in reality they arent ... they dont need all the extras that are fed with the best of intentions and thinking I'm doing good. My good horse is now being fed like hes IR ... I was told that's the best way nowadays with all the fertilizers and yada yada ... GMOS and high fat super rich grains added.... it's just too much for your average horse I guess... who really knows anyway but I'm not taking any chances on him ... hes getting a muzzle and limited turnout our grass is starting to come up like crazy already. Plus hes cresty already and that's not good! I was told roundup can cause cushings in horses ... theres been an explosion in that diagnosis with the last few years ... 

My vet pointed out the crest on my old horses neck too and began to explain how toxic overfeeding can be.  

Testing for Cushings is not moot!!! Getting his ACTH levels under control is what will stop any laminitis flair ups... That is done by giving the medication prascend and diet.  After you can have your friend rehab his feet.... I'm so sorry this is happening but the if this horse has Cushings,(which is more then likely the cause) you need to treat him on order for him to stop having laminitis issues!!!!!!!!  I'd hate for you to ignore just getting him tested and have to end up putting him down. Take this any way you want but like I said my mare had rotation and had several episodes where she would just lay down and could hardly get up because she was in so much pain.  After we tested her and got her on prascend she NEVER had another case of laminitis. We went into rehabbing her feet with my Farrier and she was an awesome sounds trail horse.... She was always just a trial horse tho.   We just had a yearly ACTH Cushings test done to recheck if we needed to modify her prascend dosage....  If you don't like my advice I'm sorry but from someone who has dealt with this I wish I could pay to test your horse myself!!! 

PS..... If you can, sell the soft rides to pay for the Cushings test!!! Just bed him deep. The Cushings AND Insulin test is way more valuable to your horse then soft rides at this point!! 

I appreciate all the advice here, I really do. I do have a call into a different vet that I can get to come to me so the horse doesnt have to travel. I'm hoping next week. I'm putting in for care credit .. I do, fortunately have good credit, so maybe I can get more done for him. I've been told so many different things from different people I'm beyond overwhelmed,  underslept and OVERSTRESSED. I swear every person I consult with, professional  or just a regular Joe who has been thru this tells me something different.  I heard the treatment for cushings is often worse than the actual disease from a few people I respect and know they know their business. Then I've heard like you just said, .... I had 1 vet tell me the horse will get better or he wont, theres nothing you can do and if he does indeed get better, its not going to be because of anything you've done or haven't done... it stuff like that, that makes me sick. 

I understand what you mean!  I actually have two Cushings horses.  They both have done Very well on prascend. The 12 now 15 year old mare I was taking about gets 2 tabs a day and my 26 year old gelding gets 1 tab a day. The 26 year old still goes on weekly rides. You'd never guess he is that old. I've never any issues! Never had them loose appetite, seem lethargic or depressed... 

No... its not.. you haven't seen the pain he was in before we put these on him. The boots have lifted his heel up a tad and hes walking better without curling his lip now ... albeit hes walking very slowly but I'd say his pain has lessened because of the boots. Im not taking those away from him.  I completely understand your point and I agree with you. If I can get this guy out here next week I will ask him to do it and go from there. What i am saying is it wont reverse what's happened but if it will prevent it from progressing then I am for it. 

I'm also going to mention back in 1999 I had a mare that was 19 and had Cushings. I watched her suffer from laminitis... And a she had a long hair coat I had to clip a few times before she died. We eventually put her down. A compounded version of prascend, which the actual drug name pergolide was available at the time but we didn't know about it. Prascend was not. To this day if I could have given her even the compounded med I would have.... And way Early on. She'd have lived a longer life and been rideable. So after dealing with the heart break of her, I had no doubt I wasn't at least going to try prascend.

I just saw where you said you had care credit. I said that out of frustration of reading about your story.  What does he mean the damage already done? If its Cushings,  Prascend and diet will stop any further episodes of laminitis. If a horse has laminitis and actually rotates and founders, if it be caused by a toxic weed, high fever, trauma, Cushings or insulin resistance you have damage you will need to rehab.  It's not that treating Cushings will fix his feet.... It will fix further episodes of laminitis so you can actually rehab your horses feet.

Ok so I found the vet who will take my care credit, I got approved for a good amount that'll cover tests and possibly more xrays if needed and medication. Hes going in tomorrow morning for blood etc etc. I hope and pray he will haul ok. I didnt want to but I cannot wait for the mobile vet... hes at least 2 weeks out... I'm sick of losing sleep over this ... my poor kids haven't had supper made for them before 10pm all week because I've been out with the horse! My trailer has a ramp and lots of shavings so hopefully he will be ok with his boots on and going slow. That's what I was going to ask... what medication will they prescribe if he does have cushings ? Pergoglide? I know my sister got some meds for her cushings horse and it was $120 for 3 months worth... her horse isnt laminitic but skin n bones and hairy... she cant put weight on him. But she said he was otherwise ok. 

what I have seen with you all along,is somehow YOU MAKE THINGS WORK OUT:)Remember,the THREAD is a discussion,and you have gotten ALOT of good advice from folks that have been there and done that.I deal with a cushings pony:( I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been posted.Its frustrating,heartbreaking and VERY STRESSFUL,but just remember,everyone has done things that work,and don't work.You are doing your job by learning everything you can to help your boy,and I commend you for that.HANG IN THERE.

Thank you. I'm stretching myself thin with this but he deserves it. I'll find a way to get it done. It may take some time and little by little but he will get the best chance possible for recovery in my care. I'll make sure of it. I've even been put in touch with another vet that will come to my house and do chiropractic and acupuncture on him when I can afford a little extra ... if we decide to go that route... shes worked on lots of laminitis cases as well and comes highly recommended. I'm looking around to see if I can split a farm call with someone ... shes supposed to be really amazing. I've fixed his diet and hes not happy but he eats it lol! Plain soaked beet pulp with a tablespoon of salt, some magnesium and some chia seeds mixed in... and soaked hay fed throughout the day in small meals in slow feed net. I went ahead and put my good horse on this diet as well... minus the soaking of the hay... hes mad but he can get over it... hes overweight. I also was given a good free choice loose mineral mix to offer them.. theyve been steadily eating it and I just refill their mineral feeders once a day. It's called rush creek minerals 1:1 it came highly recommended. It's not convenient but it is what it is and I'll do it. .... so... am I hoping for cushings positive? Not particularly,  but it would sure explain why this happened and at least I can treat the cause .... 

That's great news. I hope everything goes well. We are all praying for you! Get the Cushings insulin resistance combo test. Some horses have both and some only one of the diseases.  If your horse has Cushings they will prescribe Prascend which is the name brand name for pergolide.  Your sisters horse probably had Cushings for a while before being put on prascend and exhibited those symptoms before he was even put on the med. The sooner you catch it the better you can slow the progression of it. Your sister may even want to do a yearly retest for Cushings to make sure her horse is getting a high enough dose of prascend. Most vets recommend you test yearly to monitor ACTH levels for Cushings over the horse's lifetime.

Yeah hers is weird .... he wasnt exhibiting any major signs of cushings.. just became a very hard keeper but hes in his very late 20s and been used hard most of his life...she just had him diagnosed this past October so it's pretty recent. Shes been pouring the feed to him with no avail... I'm going to put her in touch with a vet I met during this "thing" I'm going thru that's had really great success treating cushings and rehabbing one... I guess shes lucky hes only skinny and not in pain like mine is.  I will say my horses appetite is getting better. Hes stopped sulking about beet pulp and eating it first now instead of hay .... he has himself a little system I noticed this evening... he will eat a few bites of the BP, then walk over to eat some hay for about 5 minutes,  then cruise over to the mineral bucket and take some bites and then back to his BP  lol! Whatever works... I'm just glad hes eating and taking in nutrients.. he needs that to be able to heal. Hes scheduled for 830am blood draw so hes fasting per the vet till we do that.  We backed the trailer up as close as we could to the barn to lessen his walk... I'm going to bring some pre soaked hay with me so he can eat on his way home. Hopefully it wont take too long to get results back and we can move forward  .. 

Sending good thoughts to you and Chuy

We got back from the vet. I saw a completely different vet this time at the clinic..  she was so much more thorough with us than the last guy. She only did a blood draw but spent over an hour with us talking about laminitis, cushings and IR. She seems to think hes IR but cant rule out cushings .. she suggested we start him on prascend anyway just to begin the process... it wont hurt him if hes negative. I'll get my results back next week. We are also going back next weekend for more xrays to see what's going on. Hopefully he will start feeling better! She said I'm going everything right with his diet and to keep it up. Anyway its done...  hes back in his stall resting and eating.  I feel so much confident in this vet and her advice, shes very educated on laminitis,  she isnt a 1 size fits all type and I appreciate that. I wish I would have used her the first time. We would have gotten way more helpful information than what the last dude said. It was nice to have a vet that actually listened to me and let me talk and ask questions and give me options instead of just following one certain protocol. My cushings/IR test was $167.00 she found the least cost laboratory to get it to for me as well. I definitely appreciate that extra mile. Well I think I let out a big sigh of relief for now... hes not out of the woods by any means but I feel better after talking to her and knowing we have a chance to get him better 

She also said taking his shoes off was the right thing to do, at least until we get him all figured out. That made me feel better because it just seemed logical to do so but the first vet told my farrier it wasnt necessary and they both made me feel foolish for wanting to take them off... so I called the friend of mine that's the other farrier came and did it for me. He also agreed to taking them off was the right thing to do. He may need special shoes in the future,  and that'll be ok too.  So on my little journey, I've learned so much and discovered so many things! I wanted to share this beet pulp I found, by the grace of God... I was telling the vet about it because she asked me what I was feeding him... a lady that lives up the road from me has IR and cushings horses she takes care of she just opened a little feed store from her home and gets this stuff called speedi-beet .. its awesome! It's not traditional beet pulp ... these are tiny flakes and only 5% sugar with zero starch or GMOS ...  it soaks up in 10 minutes and I only need a few handfuls each feeding to mix in their supplements. I love this stuff!  I have no idea where she gets it from but I just bought the small bag to try ... this will last me at least another week or maybe more. I'm definitely going to use this as my base to my new improved feed program. 

Thats such awesome news!!! I'm so relieved for you! Prayers things improve.  If your horse doesn't have a metabolic issue I'd just be so stumped in everything I've ever experienced and learned in my life! Lol...  Did your vet recommend a chromium and magnesium supplement? When my 12 year old mare was diagnosed with Cushings and insulin resistance they recommended I add the chromium and magnesium because it helps support blood sugar levels for the insulin resistance. I fed a smart pak smartmetabo supplement and obviously gave Prascend. Praying!!!!

She didnt mention any supplements but that never surprises me. I've done my homework lol! I talked to platinum today after we got home and I'm going to put the horses on PP to mix in their beet pulp ... their stuff is flax based and lowest NSC I can find. I'm also getting their metabolic support supplement that is magnesium and chromium. I've also read extra vitamin E will be very beneficial to him during the healing process. I'm searching for one that will fit the bill ... I want pure non synthetic vitamin E with no added sugars or anything. Just when I think I've found one it's got some other junk in it I dont want or sourced from china...  no offense,  but no...

Thank you all for comments, well wishes and advice and most importantly prayers! 

That's so great!!! Continued prayers!!!!

I haven't had to give him any bute today.. I gave him a little yesterday morning after the farrier left.. but hes been pretty good today, even after the trailer ride to the vet. I'd say he had a good day today! This afternoon jacob and I went into his stall and groomed him up.... gave him lots of love and he seemed to enjoy being brushed on. I really hope we are over the hump or at least getting close to it. Hes very alert and eating well, walking a little better too. 

I am so incredibly happy to read your update!!!   I've seen that beet pulp advertised in one of the monthly horse magazines I get, and the testimonials were amazing.  (I'd also seen them talk about Equi-Bone for similar problems???)   And you know I totally believe in PP!!!   I'm gonna come back each day to this thread BELIEVING in good updates

I'm glad you, Jacob, and Chuy had a good afternoon of bonding. . . 

I've never heard of speedi beet until this happened! I'm so glad I found this woman on Facebook that has it and shes literally 10 minutes from me. It's been a Godsend! She has so many neat things in her little store ... lots of organics and homemade pet treats and she gave me several horse treats from Hilton Herbs .. totally safe for laminitic horses with zero sugar and starches... made from Chia seeds and oregano and peppermint oil ... chuy gobbles them up and hes not a treat guy... it helped me get his prascend into him today. He was none the wiser I was giving him a pill lol! Vet suggested putting it in water and shooting it into his mouth like a paste dewormer... but hes been so naughty lately about me trying to put the bute paste into his mouth he can spit it out like a pro. So I just gave him a few little "Herb Balls" and put the pill with them and it was no problem!

I suppose this is how this terrible condition works..  we have good days and then not so good days.. hes decided not to eat ... again... its frustrating to say the least. I'm wondering if its the prascend killing his appetite or just pain... I thought he looked better yesterday but it seems like we took a step backwards today. Hes been standing in one spot for hours and hours... he will eat a little hay but not his beet pulp with his other medications in it. I've tried everything .. even mixing a little of his prior feed in. I have one more thing I can try but will be tomorrow it's called fibre beet.. same makers of speedi beet the lady gave me a sample and I gave it to my other horse this morning because he wasnt eating the speedi beet either! Ugh! He inhaled the fibre beet, I was able to get a handful out before he devoured it and offered it to chuy,  he gobbled it right up! It's got a tiny but of alfalfa in it with added biotin, it smells completely different than the speedi beet ... I asked the maker of this feed if it was safe for laminitic horses, they confirmed it absolutely is. 

I just wanted to add... I know there is no "magic" feed or miracle supplement that will bring him out of this or reverse the damage done.. this is mostly a gentle reminder to myself of that... one minute I'm full of hope, holding my breath, obsessing over watching to see if his steps get easier.... when he looks in pain and not improving I feel sick, sad and just defeated.. I'm not a quitter, but to be honest,  I've had to force myself to come to the realization that he may not get better.  I was told I was basically an idiot for putting him on prascend before a diagnosis and removed from a laminitis group discussion... maybe so, but I'm trying everything I can to save my boy.  I'm doing my best to not 2nd guess my treatment plan with my vet.. 

You have done everything possible to learn and understad,please dont second guess yourself,you are not letting him down with you OR the vet.I always say facebook Facebook smacebook LOL,dont let those people get the best of you.The medicine is NOT GONNA KILL HIM EVEN IF YOUR TEST COME BACK NEGATIVE,and if it's positive,YOU'RE AHEAD OF THE GAME. Give yourself a pat on the back for being so PRO ACTIVE,I've seen posts on here about horses that OBVIOUSLY needed to see a vet right away,and months laster,the same post comes up again asking questions and NO VET GRRRRR.I PRAY HE GETS BETTER,YOU JUST NEVER KNOW HOW ITS GONNA END UP.Keep your chin up,and try to get some rest.Hugs to you.

I absolutely agree!! You are doing everything possible to help your horse! Know you've done everything you can do. 

I've been keeping up w your posts.

ive had 2 founders both were grass founder.

Ahhh everyones journey is different.

im glad u pulled his shoes. My Daddy was a corrective shoer n he'd pull shoes on a founder.

I didn't put shoes on either of my mares till they stabilized. 
I will not use any type of egg or heart bars,
it adds so much pressure on a compromised foot. 
they simply can't get away from that pain. 

I know a lot of folks are very high on those shoes

BUT I've also seen several a foundered horse not walking w/o pain and lay down to get away from the foot pain. 
I went w soft rides for 2 months. I also have white sugar sand so was a plus.

My farrier then put on a frog pad n regular shoe,
she has done amazing.

She's  now in a wedge n regular shoe and riding her n working the pattern :0)

She did bust out w abscesses on 2 occasions, and that is another nasty you will need to add to your list of watches and goes along w founder. 

So glad you got w a good knowledgeable vet n farrier.

It's heart breaking!

Main thing keep the weight off

Stay the course and sounds like you've got your game plan worked out for his nutrition.

Stick w it as long as it works. Don't jump on the lastest and greatest band wagons either ;o)  
My philosophy -- "if it ain't broke don't fix it" ;0)))

fyi- My mare wouldn't eat the recommended well sole or other low starch feeds. So my mare is on rolled oats 1/2 scoop 2xd, equipride, cocasoya oil, U 7 gastric aide, handful soaked alfalfa, grass hay n monitored time on grass. Maybe an hr or so. Sadly, life as she knew w pasture time is over. 
God Bless 

YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT.  You're a lady that LOVES her horse and is going above and beyond to research and work on a plan to help him.  No matter what happens, you have done right by him and everything in your power to get him pain free.  You hang in there--Chuy hasn't given up and I know you aren't either.  Much much love and prayers sent to you.  

Mine are all on MVP Natural E. You could look into it if you haven't already 

It appears to be affecting his back feet now, I woke this morning to find him struggling to make his back feet work right.. if I didnt know any better, I'd think this horse had EPM the way hes struggling to move , it's like his hind end is falling out/down when he tries to take a step forward. Its absolutely agonizing to witness... I'm just beside myself this morning,  I've got a call into our vet, there is no way I could or would make this horse load into our trailer. I'm afraid this is the end of this .. I cant watch anymore, why did it get worse?? What did I do or didnt do?? Hes worse now than when this first began. I'm waiting for her to call me back and see what she suggests I do. I'm heartbroken but I'm ready to let go too.  His feed has sat in his feed pan for 3 days untouched I even tried to offer him his old feed to see if hed eat, he wont .. his hind feet are slightly warm but it honestly doesn't feel abnormal. I'm afraid to get down too close to him because hes so unstable I dont want him to fall on me. 

This is killing me, I hope you don't have to lose him. I did read hind leg laminitis can sometimes present symptoms consistent with a neuroglic disease/epm. But definitely would put in a call to the vet asap 

I'm waiting on her to call me back. Mentally I'm ready to do what needs to be done if it means putting him down. I owe him to be set free, it just hurts so bad. I sat in my horse trailer and bawled my eyes out because the kids are already crying seeing him I need to be strong for them. I opened his gate to see if he would come out into his little pen we made hes been wanting out so bad.. he tried to go but cant .. you can tell it hurts him. Hes just staying in his stall where he feels safe I guess. When he does try to move it's like hes hunching over thru his back and he just csnt get that hind end to cooperate... then he gets aggravated and tries to kick out his back leg... it looks almost neurologic to me but I dont know ... his back feet were totally fine up until saturday I noticed he was shifting a lot and the vet noticed too when we took him.. so many what ifs and could be's  at this point. I know he was down last night in his stall because he has shavings in his mane and tail and on his back 

has vet or farrier showed you OR mention redness in the bottom of his feet?

No

When the coffin bone rotates dramatically it can cause redness and/or a bruised look on the sole of his hoof.  Sadly it can even break through.

Yep, when that coffin bone rotates it causes the botton of hoof/sole to bruise, you will see alot of pink/redness on the sole.. I'm so sorry that this gelding is going threw so much pain, are you giving him bute to try and ease up this mess hes going threw? Like when we talked earlier I would just give him a bit more since hes no light weight.. Hugs girlie this is just hard to watch , I hope that you have already heard back from the Vet and someones there now to help you and your Chuy..Wish I were closer to be more of a support for you, I know that this is not easy at all, never is

 I'm so sorry. My heart breaks for you.  Please keep us posted.  I hope they have something they can tell you.  

I haven't heard back yet but my husband is calling them, hes a lot meaner than I am, he will be home in a few hours and we will decide what to do. Out of desperation I gave him a big dose of bute and it seems to have eased him up a bit. Hes eating his hay and drinking water as normal now. His body is very tight if that makes sense... hes very alert and ears pricked forward... I went to go catch my other horse out of the pasture and he was in his stall calling to us... I picked up his back feet and I dont see anything abnormal as far as bruising or coloring goes there is zero heat in his front feet even with the soft rides on. This is so confusing and scary ... I feel like I made him worse giving him the prascend now... :-( I should have listened to that one vet that told me the prascend was worse than the actual disease because of side effects it causes... I may get some eye rolls here but shes a holistic veterinarian I spoke with. She suggested no prascend and we could fix him with diet and alternative . I.e acupuncture,  chiropractic,  herbs for inflammation...  it certainly wasnt any more expensive than the traditional route at this point. He sure went downhill in a hurry after forcing him to eat that pill. I shouldn't have listened and started him on it before we got blood back .. now its probably too late and I'm sure hes got ulcers too because how tight his belly is 

Well to me this is an emergency, I'm suprise that you have not gotton a call back.. Gald to hear that he doing a little better now, kinda sounds like he had a reaction to something.. When my gelding had laminits we didnt give him anything but just pain control and then about a week later I did put him on the thyro-L once the pain was under control and I could get him started on his Triple crown lite.. This is just a hard thing to deal with its going to be trial and error untill you find what works. Did they xray his hooves again to see if there was any more rotating that might have gone on? 

Are his muscles in his hips real tight?have you by any chance noticed real dark(coffee color)urine?does he compare to symptoms of tying up?

I agree this is an emergency. I doubt the prascend caused side effects that fast. Two or 3 dosings is minimal. My vet, who is an actual internal medicine specialist in Wisconsin's most ellite equine facility, said if they show side effects of prascend it takes a few weeks to months. I agree with holistic to a certain point.  Nothing wrong with being as natural as possible but what people forget is even things in nature are poisonous.  Every time you take something that is beyond our normal vitamins and minerals you are potentially putting something in your body you could react too. Using herbs to treat something is basically classifying them a drug. Praying for you. 

She finally called me back and I told her everything he was doing. The horse is more comfortable now after the 3grams of bute I gave him.. hes even resting his back foot. I told her he seemed to get worse after the medication because she told me it would stop progressing it from doing further damage if it was indeed caused from cushings. She back peddled a bit and said well.... I doubt it's the prascend that's doing this to him. Her recommendation was to keep him buted, let his kidneys take the hit ( her actual words) and try to keep him comfortable in the meantime until you can get him in the trailer to come get xrays, if hes foundering in the back, itll be your decision to end his life.. we stay out of that decision. Or if hes just foundered in the front we can cut his tendons and reverse the rotation. I'm more disgusted now than anything. I asked about ulcers and she said hes sucked up in the belly because his pain not ulcers . Lotta help there... I'm going to make another call into a mobile vet to come here, he has the ability to do xrays on site. I can't even imagine making this horse load into the trailer right now. His urine appears normal.. hes drinking his normal amount of water, I'm keeping tabs on every thing ... only thing hes interested in eating is his hay. 

I have a video of him this morning,  it's hard to watch but this was before I buted him. I dont want to be bashed because of it so I'm reluctant to share it. I'm completely heartbroken but I'm trying to still learn from this. He was outside in the video but he made his way back into his stall after that. Hes not out anymore I just dont want anyone thinking I've got him turned out. The vet recommended I come pick up more bute and give it twice a day right now to keep him comfortable. 

Oh Lordy, I'm old school but have never heard of cutting tendons to reverse rotation, but I have really never really dealt with a founder horse.. But I do agree his belly is hard or sucked up because of his pain..Keep him buted for a few days and find someone to help.. Is he getting any heat/stress rings? Man I wish you lived around here so you could get him in at Retama with Dr. Huffman or Dr. Martin. Dr. Huffman has saved a few of my horses, this man hangs the moon in my books and Dr. Martin too.  

i just want to tell you im so sorry for you having to go through this:(My heart breaks for you,and him of course.I don't see how ANYONE could bash you with the things you are doing for him.I personally commend you for going above and beyond for him and it doesn't surprise me that you are THIS GOOD OF A PERSON TO TRY EVERYTHING YOU CAN FOR HIM

At this point, I think you are postponing the inevitable............. 

Hes sucked up in his gut, like a dehydrated horse ... but I know hes not.. hes been eating soaked hay, and drinking normal amounts of water... hes refusing the thyro l even mixed with water and his x factor... I'm done trying to force meds in him. Besides bute right now... I'm going to let him enjoy his grain... without thyro l in it..  the thyro l isnt going to make or break him..  they prescribe that stuff to every horse that comes in there that's overweight it seems which she said 95% of them are anymore. 

I'm not doing it out of cruelty I can promise you that. Hes a different horse right now eating his hay quietly with one back foot cocked.. not breathing hard or sweating anymore. If he needs to be put down he will be ... I refuse to make this horse load into a trailer right now and make a 25 minute trip to the vet for that. Hes comfortable right now until I can get someone out here and do it. If he was laying down and writhing in pain, I'd shoot him myself but hes not... hes upright, alert and eating and resting 

I can't even remember the why of it but I actually had the vet out on a Sunday afternoon to put my guy down.  Levi was standing at the feeder enjoying his hay but something fleshy was pushing its way out of the bottom of his eyes.  I know the vet told me what was happening but I can't remember what.  It told me at that point there was no hope.  I knew something this abnormal was not reversible.

Chuy is running happily in heaven.... no more pain no more icky beet pulp or bute paste to be forced in... rest easy my friend .....  the vet came out and he was falling down and backwards... we made the decision and he went down gracefully and easy .... thank you all for the help and prayers and advice... 

i am so very sorry for your loss,I hate that this happened to him:(((,and your family.Please find peace in knowing you did everything you could possibly do.

Ohhhh noooo, This just make my gut knot up I was not so expecting to see this type of update, just sick reading this, Hugs  you did what you could, I am soooo sorry

I'm so so sorry. Hugs to you.  You did everything thing in your power for him.  

So sorry :( hugs and prayers. Been watching and was hoping for good news

^^^^^^This underlined and in capitals. . . . I'd come be your horse ANY DAY

I just read the update. . . . I am so incredibly sorry you, Chuy, and your family had to go thru this.  Perhaps God put him in your hands just recently because He knew when this time came that you would do right by Chuy and help him over.  My heart is broken for you, but I know he's kicking up his heels and is a prancy pony tonight

Now that I've had a moment to collect myself... I'm just so thankful my husband was here, he took charge, our backhoe wasnt working so he called some friends and got one here right away .. these 2 vets were amazing and so sympathetic to my family... they let us say goodbye and waited for us to let him finish his huge bucket full of sr feed he wasnt allowed to have anymore... he ate every morsel up.. we loved on him, talked to him and when it was time we slowly lead him over to his spot ... she administered the shot and he gently sat back and then went down, the other vet was holding his head so he didnt hit it on the ground... it was very peaceful and she was telling him what a good boy he was and how she could tell how much he was loved by us and what a lucky boy he was... she closed his eyes and we came over and said our final goodbye...the vet cut a large piece of his beautiful tail and gave it to my daughter... hes buried beside our barn. It's such a heartwrenching ordeal but I know I did right .... I miss him terribly already ... I keep looking out my kitchen window to see him like I've been doing the last few weeks all hours of the day and night expecting to see his cute face and fuzzy ears looking back at me ... it's sad.. his stall is empty ... poor jacob was just sobbing the entire time... I told him a very special child in heaven needed a kick butt breakaway horse and God needed chuy more than we did... I know time will heal our hearts ... rest in peace my beautiful chew-chew...

You made me cry. Those moments are so tough. He knew you Loved him. Hugs. 

I cried too. . . But it sounds like at the end you were surrounded by good people and a wonderful husband.  No one can say Chuy didn't know he was loved.   Those pics show a beautiful, well-loved boy.  When Lula Bell lost her mare last year, her FB post included that she hoped the little girl riding her new pony that night in heaven knew how incredibly special she was---I bet someone up there tonight is talking about their special new boy. . . 

Bye Chuy......rest well.  You were a lucky horse to have been part of a loving family.

Well now he is loved also by the BHW!  So sorry! 

Any idea of what happened?  Was it founder?

He had what we thought was a mild case in the fronts and then it just progressively got worse over 2 weeks despite my best efforts and it got into his back feet last 2 days.. he had no where to put the weight and every step was agonizing for him. I just spent an hour on the phone with a vet I've never met, he was suggested to me from a farrier I know.. I had called him yesterday to see if he would come look at chuy, I left him a message.. he ended up calling me back when the other vet got here so I didnt answer ... but he just called me again this morning to check on us.. extremely nice man and he was genuinely sorry for what we had to do yesterday,  he spoke to me in great detail about laminitis and causes and treatments and prevention practices. I think I just found my new vet and hes mobile. I'm having him out to take care of my other horse next week. Time for a check up, blood tests, fecals, coggins, vaccinations, teeth, sheath, the works... he said he offers the Platinum package for the colic coverage and highly recommends the products especially for my horse who I just took of grain completely.   Things are somber around my home this morning... my kiddos are still asleep.. I let them stay home from school... there was still tears falling late last night at bedtime. I turned my horse out this morning and he went right over to chuys grave and sniffed around.... he walked away slowly out to the pasture .. I feel bad for him too.. hes solo now. 

So sorry for your loss, I was really pulling for a better outcome. But I am glad he's no longer in pain and that he had someone like you to at least try to give him a fighting chance and to love him  

I am so sorry.  I had to put my mare down April, 2019.  She coliced but I think it was from founder, laminitis, over eating.  Now I keep a constant eye on my other two with feet and leg issues.  I also need a mobile vet.  I had one come out after I lost my mare to do check ups but he didn't really do anything outside of draw blood and then never went over anything with me.  Mine two are older geldings, 27 and 30.  I worry about my 27 year old being overweight.  He is off all grain now though and gets hay, forco and the Omega alfalfa cubes.  Out on pasture but pasture is not much this time of year but he still stays fat.  Trying my best to get the weight off but hard when he can't exercise very much like he used to.  He has what my farrier calls DSLD.  I have not confirmed this with Vet vet yet though.  

I'm definitely having my other tested for cushings and IR when this vet comes. My horse is obese with a cresty neck.. and I was feeding very little concentrates.. under 4lbs per day. Hes a concern because of how easy he keeps as hes 14 now. Yes, this vet recommended definitely getting the extra weight off, it's not a 100% prevention,  but it will definitely help! I've read so much over the past few weeks on this stuff its mind blowing .... theres a lot of blame being put on GMOS in the grains and feeds nowadays that is causing more cases of cushings and IR... I suppose it's no different than the theories of  our food poisoning us and creating health issues.  I dont rule it out though,  there is some merit to it I believe. I'm applying what I've learned from all my research to care for my horse now... one vet put it simple... feed every horse as if they were IR and you'll eliminate a large chunk of health issues... including ulcers. If you have a horse that's not in work or not being used daily and hard, dont feed them like they are... these nice options we have nowadays for bagged feed are mostly too much, too rich for your average horse that isnt being hauled hard... there is always exceptions to the rules though... then we are told if we dont feed the recommended amount of the feed our horse isnt getting all his vitamins and minerals required so we add in supplements... I get it I understand the logic behind it...I'm not saying bagged feed is bad or to blame I'm just sharing what I've read and researched... again I think there is some merit to it. 

I'm very sorry for your loss.  Do not second guess anything you did.  

My  young 10-year-old gelding that was recently diagnosed with Cushings has been on 10 acres of unfertilized coastal pasture 24/7 his whole life and fed only fertilized coastal bermuda hay during winters.  Never any grain.  Loose mineral and salt available.  The only thing different was about 3 years ago, I had an herbicide sprayed one time to kill goatweed (marked safe for livestock to remain on it) although I moved horses to another pasture during that time.  Who knows.  

I havent been on here in a few weeks so I missed all of this but I just want to say that I'm so sorry for everything you went through with Chuy. We have a 25 year old gelding who struggles with this periodically so this definitely hits close to home. Many prayers for you and your family.

This is probably the absolute best scenario for horses! I know it's not always feasible, of course... we around surrounded by crop fields and I hate when the crop duster plane comes... he killed all my in laws pecan crops on this property and I had planted a big live oak by my home and it got killed shortly after he sprayed. . He comes and sprays on windy days around here. Drives us all insane, we've all complained numerous times to no avail. Bottom line is, some can tolerate things others cant ... with everything... like the vet said today, you can do everything absolutely perfect and theyll still not survive laminitis or colic, etc... and you can do the very bare minimum and theyll make a full recovery, you just never know.. he said the 2 things that scare him the most are laminitis and colic... I'm right there with him ... especially now. 

I just re-read this... sorry, I'm a little out of it today! Yes that is so odd about your horse being diagnosed! Baffling actually... why is cushings so rampant?? Did you put him on medication? 

I just edited my original post to say I'm sorry and to not second guess yourself.

My Cushings horse is one I raised and trained from a weanling but has been on the back burner the whole time...just an extra trail horse.  I was prescribed Prascend but trying Chaste tree berry.  Idk.  

My horse has had cushings for as long as I can remember, 5+ years, and doesn't need the Prascend because SmartPaks Smart Pituitary Senior keeps him in check. It's seriously been a huge asset. Its got the Chasteberry in it. He maintains his weight really well for 27 and after starting him on it his winter coat doesn't grow in so long and it sheds like a normal horse in spring. He used to grow a 4" long coat, it was insane how long and thick it was. Now it stays 2" at most. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a cushings horse 

I'm supposed to get chuys blood test results by Thursday I think, I'll be curious to see if he did in fact have cushings/IR.  Is this something that is tested on PPE or is it not a thing yet... I wonder if anyones getting false positives on the testing. So many questions... my farrier was out last night and he was telling me a barn he shoes for has a few horses that were put on prascend because they "suspected " cushings was present without actually testing them.. how they do that,  I dont know. I mean get it without a vet. It's not OTC right? Well, he said one horse that was on it improved.. dropped fatty cresty neck and fat deposits on his body and started performing better and just looked better all over... the other horse looked the same had no significance in change in condition or performance. It's a very interesting and concerning thing, this cushings. The vet that was out here yesterday even suggested I put my cash (my other horse) on chuys thyro-l to help him lose weight.  I'm scared to do that.. I'm not doing anything like that until I get him seen by this new vet and get blood tests, etc etc... there's just so much gray area to me... 

My vet offered it to me without testing back when mine first grew the 4" long coat and struggled to shed in spring. Look how many drugs there are in humans that can be used for other things, I used to take a drug that was for seizures because it helped migraines, I've never had a sezuire in my life. It's possible the Prascend could help, especially if they're overweight enough that it affects their hormones. Getting them back in check with it could potentially help I would guess. If I had an overweight horse like that I'd just adjust the diet and exercise it. If they're sound, just lunge them or ride them instead of pumping drugs into them. I don't run or even really ride in winter, but mine get lunged still 3-4 days a week to prevent weight gain & for one to keep her more sane lol 

I went by the vets yesterday to pay my final bill for Chuy. The vet that came to my house was in the lobby. She asked how we were all doing. She was genuinely asking me, I could tell. I appreciate that so much in a vet, I really do. Someone must have been cutting up some dang onions in that room because i felt the tears rolling but it was ok. Anyway, after a minute we got the bill.. she had taken off the blood testing and examinations and a few of the medications and the farm call. I was so grateful at that moment the onions got me again... I was contemplating finding another vet to take care of my remaining horse, but I decided to stay with these folks. 

we sometimes forget that vets are humans to.We all make mistakes,do things in ways folks may not agree with,,but I believe most of them are there for the animals,especially large animal vets.Yes,some are smarter,some have seen more,and learned more from it,in the end,they aren't miracle workers,although some get lucky and do find that occasional miracle,But when you find a genuine good person behind the title,it goes a LONG WAY.HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY,I'm so sorry your learning experience had to be one that broke your hearts,much love to all of you.

Our local small animal vet has never charged me when I had to let one of mine go. . And she and her employees always sign and send us a condolence card.  That means The World to me.   Andrea is an asset to our community.  

I'm like Miss Mary, I hate you had to learn about this horrible disease this way.   But I'm thankful you have had some good people around during this tough time to support you. Keeping you in prayers

Want2chase3, my heart breaks for you. I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You tried your best for your sweet boy.

In the interest of potentially helping someone else who might come across this post in the future, I just wanted to provide some links.

Dr. Eleanor Kellon has a great (free!) group dedicated to supporting and advising the owners of laminitic, cushingoid, and/or insulin resistant horses.

ECIR Group on Facebook: ECIR Group FB Page

ECIR Website: https://www.ecirhorse.org

ECIR recommended emergency diet for laminitis flare ups: ECIR ER Diet

I hope these will offer some hope and answers for someone struggling with laminitis management one day.

Yes I'm very familiar with this group.. I used the emergency diet for him too. It's a wonderful group and excellent information... they were very helpful. I got into a few of those groups while going thru this and this was the best one .... I'm still on it and left a few of the others. After going thru all this, my remaining healthy but chunky horse is off grain and I will say just in 4 weeks hes trimmed up despite not being worked daily because our weather is crazy ... his attitude is better, way less reactive and spooky. He just looks better overall. I'm doubtful I'll go back to feeding grain.  Its more work and not as convenient for sure but hes worth it to me. 

Oh good, I'm glad you found them. That group is a wealth of information, and I really admire that they take the time to advise individual cases.

I embarked on a similar journey a little over 10 years ago, after losing one horse to colic and then trying to tailor diets for horses with other issues (PSSM, ulcers, etc.). My horses now all think beet pulp and alfalfa pellets are "grain" - and honestly they seem just as excited to get that as they ever did for real grain. It is extra work mixing your own balancer ration, but sure seems to alleviate a bunch of other problems.

Yes! He totally turned his nose up at the beet pulp at first but I ended up finding one he loves. It's got alfalfa and biotin added in so he gets that bonus. I dont even need to mix in his old grain to get him to eat it anymore. I notice he eats slower too, which is good because hes choked several times on different grains. Right now hes on soaked BP, a custom mix I got from an equine vet of vitamins/minerals, a 1/4 cup of chia seeds and I throw in a handful of some herbs I got from Hilton herbs, and a natural vitamin e powder. He loooooves this mix.. he licks his bowl sparkling clean after eats lol! Oh and hes got a slow feed hay net full in his stall at all time. I also keep a bucket of free choice minerals.. some days he eats it all, other days just a little and some days not at all.. so that tells me hes getting what he wants and needs.  Hes one spoiled gelding that's for sure! When hes done with this mix from the vet, (I'm just to feed it to help him get some excess weight off of him, instead of the thyro-l) I'll go to California Trace plus Vitamin/minerals to add into his beet pulp. That stuff is awesome and affordable!

I have been thinking of you and Chuy while I've been absent and praying each day was better and better

Awww yes it has been getting easier to be out there.. I still miss him terribly and think about him every single day. Today was one of those days though... I think it's this weather giving me an extra dose of the blues lately ... my mind started wandering while I was cleaning my horses stall that what if I did the wrong thing by putting him down.. maybe I should have waited a day to see if hed get better or tried something else ... I was told this would happen.. these thoughts... this isnt my first horse having to put down but it has been a good 20 plus years of having to make that decision so it might as well be the first time! Oh well.. you're just so sweet thank you for thinking of us and for the prayers! You know... I honestly cant tell if my horse is annoyed beyond with me and all the extra attention and constant doting or if hes totally loving it. Hes probably thinking I've lost my mind

What kind of Beet Pulp and where did you get it.  Mine will eat the kind I get from TS reluctently.  I did get some from BB and they like it but it had molasses in it.

https://emeraldvalleyequine.com/product/fibre-beet/

I use this one. It does have molasses in it but very little.. most beet pulps that have molasses in it is pretty minimal. I feed very little of this anyway. I keep more of an eye on starches these days. They also make one that's molasses free and it's called speedi beet. That's the one I had chuy on, he didn't like it one bit... but I think what he hated the most was the thyro-l powder I had to add to it. I added in some anise seeds to try to mask it up and ut helped a little. 

I wish this line was more available everywhere because it's really good clean beet pulp. I'm just very blessed to be able to get from a gal up the road from me she opened a cute little store that offers organic animal feeds and she carrys both speedi beet and fibre beet.. along with all kinds of neat stuff I normally wouldn't have access to. Hilton herbs, ABC supplements, all kinds of organics... I could spend hours in there lol! And probably lots of $$$$

I had saw that some other place.  Well I just went to order it and with shipping it will cost me around $82.00 for a 44 lb bag.  Not feasible for me but sure would love to try it.

Yes, the shipping is outrageous! Well, if you ever have the chance to make your way out this way, shes open all day on Fridays. She gets a lot of it in,  I remember her telling me that the freight was killing her but shes getting more and more people coming to buy it from her now . I'm just hoping she stays in business! she feeds it to her 6 horses so hopefully I'll be ok. If you do Facebook, her page is called Cowboy & Annie's  super cute store.. 

Bluebonnet carries BP.  I tried it once and horses really like it but of course they would as it had molasses in it but I didn't pay attention as to how much.  I would be OK for my 30 year old but not sure on the 24 year old as he is on the fat side.