Is the fear of Covid19  worth killing the lives of so many? Is it worth going in debt Trillions of dollars? Is it worth stomping on the Bill of rights? Is it worth depression era unepolyment? Is it worth the tens of thousands of companies that will go bankrupt. Is it worth the foreclosures and bankruptcies that will follow? Here are some facts for a little prospcetive from the CDC.  2018-2019 Flu season with a vacine  42.9 million got sick. 647000 hospitalized. 61200 dead. And the CDC projects for 2019-2020 80000 deaths. The country did not freak out.  2020 Covid19 stats so far 639055 got sick.82809 hospitalised. 30988 deaths. The country goes stark raving nuts from fear and kills the republic. So is the fear worth the cure? I say no time to suck it up and open this country bsck up and try to save whats left.                                                                       

It really makes you wonder doesn't it.  

Now take into consideration how much more communicable covid 19 is and figure out what the statistics would look like for a year without mitigation.  How do you think our health care system would be able to handle it?  

What price do you put in human life - especially the lives of your loved ones?  

I still can't get past thinking that there is some politics at play.  I still feel like the Dems are willing to do anything to ruin Trumps economy hoping that it would cause him to lose the election.  They talk about the deaths but don't ever mention the number of people that survive it.

Hard to tell on mitigation. I can only offer Sweden with hardly any mitigation compared to the surounding countrys strick mitigation when ajusted for population the stats are almost the same. So who was right. As the value of a life it is the same deaths by the flu and covid19 both are both bad. But no one asked that question when comes to the flu which kills more.

I'm 100 percent trump supporter but this is a whole different beast. I'm in CA and they said if we did NOTHInG , life as usual, 60 percent of the population would get it and nationally death rate would be about 300k. Flu has been around long enough we KNOW what it does , how to treat it , etc. with covid 19 we just do NOT know yet. It's so new it could do almost anything. 

They won't know the true statistics until they know how many people actually had it and got over it.  There is so much coming out now about what happened and when.  All along many people have said they had something that made them very sick in November and December of 2019. They were tested and it was NOT the flu. I happen to believe them. 

They have come out with a saliva test that will be able to tell if someone has had it and gotten over it, has it at the time they took the test or have not had it.  That will be a great tool for them to finally come up with numbers we can believe. No guessing. 

It's worth looking at Sweden's experience, for sure, but here are a few things to consider.  First, they did implement voluntary social distancing.  They didn't close much down, if anything.  If you used Sweden's death numbers and extrapolate those to the US, if we had a death rate the same as Sweden, we'd be looking at about 48,000 deaths, rather than 33,000.  That's roughly 50% more deaths than the US, per capita.  As far as the number of cases, you can't compare, because neither country has a good idea of the real numbers of people infected because testing has not been widespread enough in either case to give us a good idea of the denominator. 
Another thing to realize is that you can't really compare the two countries.  Sweden has no real pockets of densely populated areas.  The total population is about 10 million, compared to about 335 million for the US. The largest city in Sweden is Stockholm which is about the size of Austin, at about 900,000.  A better comparison would be to compare North Carolina to Sweden. Sweden has had over 1400 deaths from Covid19, versus about 130 for North Carolina.  That's a 10-fold difference.  For what it's worth, Sweden has had 2.5 times the number of cases.  Sweden doesn't have large, densely populated urban areas like the US...nothing like NY, LA, Detroit, New Orleans, Houston, Boston, DC, and Chicago.  In other words, you are comparing apples to oranges. 
If we would have done what Sweden did in these large, densely populated, urban areas, most of their hospitals would have been completely overwhelmed, and you don't have to be a genius to imagine the sheer panic, violence, pandemonium, and anarchy that would have ensued.  They would be burying bodies like they did in Auschwitz.  I shudder to imagine the end result.

Bottom line for me is this.  Even if you believe the numbers were fudged some, in terms of the reporting of deaths, I think we handled this just about right.  It's been brutal, in terms of the economy, and the national debt is impossible to even imagine, at least it looks like we stand a pretty good chance of bouncing back from this and emerging even better.....provided we really take note of the valuable lessons learned, and do something about it.

Think about things carefully, before reacting in response to your urge to display the natural tendency to base your opinion on confirmation bias......looking for something to back up your position....or confirm your bias.  Comparing Sweden's results to ours doesn't cut it.  

Trump's handling of this pandemic will go down in history.  He was masterful. 

Around 5-7 people in my office of 50, along with myself got very sick with coughing, fever, the whole bit back around Christmas (maybe a little before). We were all tested for the flu and were negative, this is before they were testing for Covid-19. Antibiotics, steroids, etc. nothing helped. Seriously, the cough was unlike anything else I've experienced... it was a horrible, cant catch your breath hacking cough! Then all this came out. We are all healthy now and working like normal as we are considered an essential business. I'm going to be very curious when the antibody test becomes readily available in our area whether it will show if we all already had it or not. I'd love to get tested, but also since I am already back healthy again do not want to deprive the sick of much needed testing just for my own curiosity. 

Right! If you consider bumbling thru it like he does with everything else it's been masterful. 

For the realist point of view he has been his usual useless self. Like since the day he's took over he's sat an done nothing but tweet. They have to have a press conference after every trump conference so his handlers can tell us what trump did or didn't say.

I don't know what the answer is nor whether we should have done differently. But neither does trump. The USA is a rudderless ship. No leadership at the top. Of course this thing has turned political because there is a void in leadership so politics fill the void. 

Our governor in Ky is doing a masterful job. If you want to see masteful just watch him. Just think how it would be here if he hadn't beaten mini trump last Nov. 

I was hoping my last remark would draw you out from beneath your rock.  That's exactly why I made my last post.

Yes, I do believe this deadly disaster has been very well handled.  Out of curiosity, as a self-described yellow dog Democrat, please explain how your candidate would have handled it differently, then provide the evidence to back it up.

I won't hold my breath.  I doubt you will come up with a cogent reply, other than your usual twisted blather.

So had Hilary or Biden been president, things would have been vastly different?  Things would not have been political during this time if one of them was leading us?   Honestly asking, not being facetious.  

Speaking of rudderless jd when Trump banned flights from China shortly after the first case of the virus showed up here in the U.S., Joe, Chuck and Nancy all screamed racist at the top of their liberal lungs.  Bernie Sanders also assured the world that he would never have pulled such a racist stunt.  Turned out Trump made a lifesaving decision there.  That favorite liberal word "racist".  They just can't help themselves.  It's all they've got.  Deplorable didn't work out very well.

I was one of those sick in November/December with a non-flu illness that kicked my tush. I finally went to the doctor - and I don't do that unless something is falling off or won't stop bleeding. But I recovered fine after antibiotics and predisone. I went to work every day. I fed the horses twice a day. I fed myself and hubby every night. I didn't die. My hubb caught the same thing and had two days where he couldn't get warm. He, too, went to work, did his chores, stayed hydrated and got better. 

The fear part of this Covid thing is the destructive part, imo. The fear that contracting Covid = death. You may get sick for a bit. It isn't the most fun. You have to force yourself to stay hydrated and eat. If you don't have any underlying condition you will recover! 

But no one is going to be able to NOT get exposed. If you are eating food gathered recently then you will get exposed no matter if you get to the store yourself or have it delivered. Covid WILL be present some time or other on some surface or other. 

We did this social distancing thing to flatten the curve, not stop the virus from spreading. There is no force on earth that is going to stop the virus. No amount of politics, money, isolation, panic or fear will stop Covid from making it's way around the world, probably forever. We humans will develop a partial immunity and Covid will become just another cold/flu. 

I hate hearing that people FEAR getting it. Unless you are compromised then get it over with and get on with your life! If you are compromised then do every thing you can to stay on top of your health and talk to your doctor about ways to aleviate the worst of the symptoms from getting you hospitalized. Now that fear I understand! 

I love that post^^^^^^

Hillary would have told u us DEPLORABLES  to go eat cake.

If you haven't already read it in the news, McDonald's in China began banning black people from their restaurants, because they believe foreigners are the ones that brought the virus to China (when their initial claim of US soldiers didn't fly). McDonald's in China has since issued an apology for the ban, but I don't trust the CCP or their numbers one bit. Talk about racist, but there is nothing coming from the left on this because they're all under the CCP's spell.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52274326

I lost an Uncle to it Friday---lose someone close to you and trust me, your whole perspective changes.

I watched a press conference with President Trump yesterday and it's disgusting how badly the liberal reporters talk to this man.  They blame him for the death and disease while never mentioning China as possibly being the culprit.  I'll say one thing......Trump has learned to handle them like a pro and takes no guff from these weasels. 

OMGosh, I am so sorry.  

I watch his press conferences everyday sometimes for over 2 hours.  If he would actually tell you anything in his press conferences the reporters wouldn't have to ask so many questions.  They are nothing but a rally because he can't stand actually having to work, and misses his base.  I think it's awful the way he talks to reporters calling most of them nasty when they ask a question.  Imagine if any other president would have done that?  

Spends most of his time patting himself on the back telling us all what a great job he is doing.  I said I would just wait and see and it's been a month.  Now we have gone from "It's a hoax to liberatng states"......  yes he is doing a fine job.

He says.........Everyone can get a test............  Everyone has PPE........  I just don't find that to be true do you?

I make my husband watch everyday because like the rest of the country he would like to go back to work. It's like making a kid do homework and he hates it.  However I do believe he should know who is making that call and what information he is giving.  I think he considers a lot of people expendables as long as it benefits him.

Chandler's Mom.....  I think JD/EZ was refering to how his govenor is handling the virus in his state not what Hillary or Biden would have done.  He is refering to KY govenor Any Beshear who barely won over Matt Bevin (big Trump supporter and kind of a crook) he seems to be doing a great job in KY. even with Mitch McConnell in the state.  Gives daily informative press conferences and most of the people (and he barely won) love him.

I challenge all Trump supporters to watch his press conferences everyday and read his twitter feed.  I shake my head and think grandpa is off his meds over many things he says.  Have a great day and stay safe, so thankful for sunshine and a pretty day.

So very sorry Mighty Broke, it has happened to people I know too.

I'll keep this one simple, Pal.  
How do you think Joe Biden would have handled this?

I won't hold my breath awaiting a reply. 

Well I will keep it short also, since I have listened to Biden talk on TV a few times.  I have also listened to people from the Obama admnistration.  Susan Rice has a very good interview I'm sure you can find on what should and could be done.

I think Biden like Obama would surround himself with good people who know what to do.

I hope like Obama he would read his daily briefings.  Seems to me people were warned just didn't do anthing or tell anyone who cared.

This is where that pandemic team would come in handy, I hear they look for this stuff, instead of waiting for it to come.

IMO Trump has surrounded himself with people that tell him what he wants to hear... for fear of being fired.  He plays the american people like he did his reality show.  He has eliminated all the systems put in place to help us in this and has his cronies and family to figure it out.  

The fact that we have lost 22+3 today military members to this should have everyone upset.

How crazy is it he tells people to stay home then encourages them to go protest to liberate the states he wants.

No President of the United States has ever dealt with anything like this. He is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't. 

I listen to President Trump's press conferences almost daily. 

I think he's done a great job. He praises the Vice President, Governors, health care workers, and people of the country.

Has Biden, Sanders, or Pelsoi said how they would of handled it?

The way the media treats him is awful! I love when he fires back at them!

Everything you said was either useless or bullish!t or irrelevant.

1.) Susan Rice was a tool and a serial liar.  She's the dingbat who wrote herself an email that said President Obama wanted the investigation into Trump-collusion to go "by the book".  Why was she compelled to do that?  Any moron can see what she was fecklessly trying to do.  She's the one who went around the Sunday talk show circuit in the aftermath of the Benghazi debacle, lying about some allegedly incendiary anti-Muslim video that practically nobody ever saw, and cited that as the reason for the attack on Benghazi.  Hillary repeated the same lie to families of the victims.  Shame on you for scraping the bottom of the barrel in invoking her disgraced name as some authority on this pandemic.  

2.) You said you THINK Biden would "surround himself with good people". That's all you can come up with?  That pandering, flip-flopping, corrupt, rich, white man who can't even read a sentence or recite a familiar passage from the Declaration of Independence, even with the aid of a teleprompter?  Most people have already reached the conclusion that he is demented.  

3.) Several weeks back I asked you to name me someone of note on that so-called "Pandemic Response Team", and you couldn't even come up with a name, much less their credentials.  Either you were too lazy to look it up, or you didn't know how.  The first Covid19 was on January 22.  He assembled his Task Force on January 29, when we had 5 cases, and the travel ban to China was implemented on January 31, when we had 6 cases in Seattle. 
We didn't have our first death until nearly a month later, on Feb 29th.  His team had a lot of respected experts, including Fauci and Birx.  This was better than any pre-positioned group of bureaucrats.   

4.) You say Trump assembled a team of people who only tell him what he wants to hear.  That's just typical BS. Fauci addressed that bullish!t allegation last week.  He said every single time the medical experts came to him with a recommendation, Trump asked a lot of good questions, and, without fail, he carried out those recommendations.  All the travel bans, and the recommendations to shut down....both times.

5.) I'm not sure how your bringing up the tragic losses of military members to this Chinese virus plays into your narrative, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with your premise.  Nice attempt to switch focus....that was even worse than Susan Rice's pathetic messages following Benghazi.

6.) So, you think people wanting to get back to work is so unreasonable?  Must be those nasty right wingers. Well, tell me something sweetheart......what would you do?  What would Joe Biden do?  Keep us locked up until we find a vaccine?

You seem to be cut from the same cloth as Biden who is a nimrod just keeping it short.

Oil hit rock bottom today and our economy is in the ****ter. 

I think we can agree, regardless of what side you're on, the country must get opened up.

I don't want people to get sick and die, but I think it's time to open back up, if you've got a weakened immune system take precautions, but it is time to get back to life. 

We can't hide forever. 

Right.  Actually, eventually more people eventually stand a chance of dying due to the effects of a rock bottom economy than covid19.  We will be shut down almost completely for 6 weeks by the end of the month.  We've flattened curves as best we can. Now we have to walk and chew gum at the same time.  Keep the precautions and distancing going as much as practical, while protecting the vulnerable, and getting back to work.  
People need to realize that we've lost over 40,000 in about 6 weeks, with extreme measures in place.  We really had to do what we did, in my opinion, or we would be looking at 4-5 times that amount, maybe more, plus the complete overwhelming of most of our major metro areas capacity, in terms of healthcare.  Then we would have been looking at anarchy and chaos the likes of which we can't even imagine.

Now, the next crisis to deal with is the economy.  A bad recession or a depression will kill even more people, except this kind of killer has more than a cytokine storm.  This kind of killer has no vaccine or medicine.  This kind of killer will prey upon some of the healthiest in society....through violence, crime, depression, suicide, alcoholism, and addiction. 

That's the balancing act the President must contend with, and I believe most citizens understand that.  That's what I find most disgusting about the stupidity and visciousness of the bimbos and dingbats during the press conferences.  They want Trump to fail. They won't admit it, but we can see it.  Sadly a few here on this forum clearly share their sentiments.

He said "a rudderless ship with no leadership at the top," so that's why I asked what I did.  I don't think he meant his governor surely. . .  I truly wish someone would say what they think Biden or Hilary or even Obama could have done that would have made such a difference or changed where our country is as of today.   

And I absolutely agree with Bear that there seem to be segments of the population that want Trump/America/the economy to fail.  Just so they can say we went down like a turd in a churn and look who was at the helm. . . . 

Very sorry Mighty Broke for your loss

You done scared her away.

No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.

I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  

Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?

I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.

I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.

Let me ask you some questions.

Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?

Would you go in for elective surgery right now?

Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?

Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?

I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  

I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.

You do realize that Bear is a surgeon and had had to deal with a lot of this directly---correct ?????? 

No...  it's not... I feel for anyone that has lost a loved one... but... if you are worried about it, stay home... but the rest of the world that isn't worried needs to go back to work...

The critism of the CDC and the WHO is justified IMO. Intentional or just stupid. You decide. But definitely NOT President Trump's fault. ETA: I see some legal action taking place in the future.  

"The CDC said in a statement Saturday to the Times that the agency “did not manufacture its test consistent with its own protocol.” Though the CDC appeared reluctant to admit contamination was at the root of the problem, the Times noted that in a separate statement the CDC seemed to acknowledge such problems, saying the agency has since “implemented enhanced quality control to address the issue and will be assessing the issue moving forward.”

After the CDC first sent its test kit to states in early February, it took the agency around a month to fix the problem. By then, the virus had invaded many communities unimpeded, and any chance that the US had at containing its spread had virtually vanished. By mid-March, many states turned to mitigation efforts, such as social distancing, to try to blunt—rather than prevent—the life-threatening, healthcare-overwhelming effects of COVID-19."

https://www.corona-covid19.be/world/corona-cdcs-failed-coronavirus-tests-were-tainted-with-coronavirus-feds-confirm/?fbclid=IwAR0WWwL5og1WlZ25ro0TsRUi14d4lnI2L0aDqX5-i-TFwDAx47RT7wDWFiI

I was going to reply to her blather, but you did that for me.  Nice job!

She still can't say what Obozo would have done differently, or Biden, for that matter, other than Biden would have had a team in place.

As to that vaunted "Pandemic Response Team" that was relocated to other departments within the government by John Bolton, here's something that I've been wondering about. After the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, a nationwide shortage of masks in the national supply resulted and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog of orders for the N95 masks, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.  That was in 2009-10.  If that "Pandemic Response Team" was so critical, where the hel! were they?  What's their excuse for not replenishing the 3/4ths of the N-95 masks?  Hmmm?

Bear. That and it's the STATE'S responsibility to have the supplies on hand.  Cuomo actually auctioned off the extra respirators they had. The other supplies were either never replaced, stolen or both.

I debated on responding, took me a while to hit post. . .

She's been asked MULTIPLE times to say what Obozo, and others would of done different, with no answer.

As I've said before, the President is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn’t. No one has ever dealt with anything like this. There is nothing to compare whether Trump did it right or not. 

and AGAIN, no matter what side we're all on I think we can agree we need to get the country opened back up, ASAP.

Palopony might not agree though. . . 

There are some races around her in May planning on running. I'm not very optimistic but I hope I'm wrong and they get to have their races. 

Bear can you explain this antibody test. How do they decide who gets an antibody test? Is it something everyone should or will get? I also seen today the FDA approved an at home test?? Did I see that right? 

Interesting timeline:

1/6 - NYT: "No Evidence Coronavirus is Spread by Humans"

1/6 - CDC warns Americans about travel to China

1/8 - CDC alert re: Chinese Coronavirus

1/14 - WHO: "no evidence for spread of coronavirus through human-to-human contact"

1/15 - Pelosi signs off on Trump impeachment.

1/20 - CDC activates Emergency Operations Center (before first case in US reported)

1/21 - Dr Fauci, widely respected expert: "This isn't something US citizens should be worried about right now." (Based on WHO assessment)

1/21 - 1st case of Covid19 in US

1/23 - US State Department orders all US Citizens to leave Wuhan, and CDC raises travel warning notice to "level 3". 

1/29 - President Trump assembles "Coronavirus Task Force", including Dr Birx and Dr Fauci....6 Covid19 cases now reported in Washington.

1/26 - Fauci: "Coronavirus a very, very low risk to the US" (again, based on WHO assessment)

1/28 - Buzzfeed: "Don't worry about Covid19.  Worry about the Flu."

1/31 - Vox: "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic?  No."

1/31 - WaPo: "How Our Brains Make Coronavirus Scarier Than it Is."

1/31 - CNN: "As Covid19 spreads, fear is fueling Racism and Xenophobia".

1/31 - Alex Azar, HHS Secretary, declares US "public health emergency" for Covid19. 

1/31 - Trump declares Travel Ban from China - 7 cases of Covid19 and no deaths reported, at this point. 

2/2 - FDA issues emergency use declaration for CDC diagnostic tests (later found to be useless and outdated)

2/2 - Trump mentions Covid19 in SOTU - Covid19 never mentioned in any Democrat debates, at this point. 

2/3 - WaPo: "Why We Should be Wary of an Aggressive Government Response to Covid19". 

2/4 - NYT: "Who says it's not safe to travel to China? It's unjust and it doesn't work anyway."

2/24 - Pelosi appears in San Francisco's Chinatown and encourages people to flock to enjoy festivities.

2/26 - NYT: "Let's Call it the Trump Virus!"

2/29 - First US Death from Covid19 

3/2 - NY mayor Bill DeBlasio and NYC health commissioner encourage New Yorkers to come out, mingle with the crowd and celebrate Chinese New Year festivities. The New York health commissioner echoes his sentiments.

3/4 - Anderson Cooper (CNN): "You should be more concerned about the Flu!"

3/9 - WaPo: "Covid 19 is Trump's Chernobyl"

3/9 - Dr Fauci: "People should still be able to go on cruises, if they wish."

As Paul Harvey would say, "And now we know the rest of the story."

I do know he is a doctor.  Which I find amazing that he spends so much time posting political stuff instead of medical stuff.  I believe if he spent as much time on virus research he could find a cure.

I personally don't care if people go back to work or not I am forever thankful I don't have to.  I can watch results and decide for myself just like anyone else.  Just wondering how others felt about it, I see you all think he's doing a wonderful job and are happy campers.  

Oh my hell!!!!

You obviously don't know anyone out of work, or struggling because of the virus.

EVERYONE that is out of work needs to get back, ASAP!

I know people who are self-employed, there is no unemployment coming in for them. They need back to work and so does the other MILLIONS of Americans out of work right now. 

Palopony, so far, you've mostly been annoying to me but that comment really made me see red!

I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.

Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.

I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.

Sorry I missed your question. I'll try to answer it and keep it simple.  
There are two basic questions we try to address:

1.) Does someone actually have Covid19?  That's where the swabs come into play.  One test requires a deep nasopharyngeal swab.  It actually will detect the presence of the virus.  The biggest problem with that is people gag, cough, and sneeze, so every time a tech obtains the swab they have to change their PPE (gowns, gloves, etc...) after each test.  Those gowns are expensive and still in short supply).  The newer test is just a simple swab on the inside of the nostril.  People can do these at home and bring them in for testing. No PPE is needed for this. The new complete home test kits run around $120, and like everything else that has just been approved, the supply is limited at this point.  It's analogous to the HPT for pregnancy.  They reserve these for healthcare workers and first responders.  I don't know when they'll be available for widespread use.

2.) The next category is the "antibody test". It can also be used to see if you have Covid19 infection and it can be used to determine whether or not you have immunity (from past exposure).  The basic immune antibody response to a viral infection involves IgG and IgM (Ig = "immunoglobulin").  The first antibody that is produced is IgM, which is a large antibody.  It appears between 3-7 days after exposure. It lasts a variable length of time, but is usually gone in 6 months.  IgG appears late, like 3 weeks after exposure.  It lasts a long time, up to a lifetime. If you test positive for anti-Covid19 IgM but negative for IgG, that suggests recent, or active Covid19.  If you test positive for both IgM and IgG for Covid 19, you might be recovering from active infection, or still fighting it...but it's recent in either case.  If you are negative for Covid19 IgM but positive for IgG, that suggests past infection and probable immunity, depending on the "titer" of IgG. Provided the titers are adequate, these are the people from whom "convalescent serum" can be obtained to give to critically ill Covid19 patients.  One donor can treat 3 people.  This is a great test, but production is not real fast.  Donald Trump cannot sh!t these tests, just like he can't sh!t swabs, ventilators, and gowns.  You have to understand that the speed at which this team got these things tested, approved, and produced is record-setting.  Normally, these things would take several months, even years. 

Now here's the problem.  Just because you test negative on one day, doesn't mean you won't be positive a day or more later.  It's like HIV testing where a test may be negative early right after exposure.  Ideally, in a perfect world, you get a negative test when you have mild symptoms, and a repeat negative test two weeks later.  Then you are pretty much cleared.  

Ok I normally don't get political or respond to these threads but this ****ed me off. I'm a retail working while going back to school to further my education. We have been slammed busy. My boss who just had her baby, has been working 60+ hours a week till she had to have an emergency c-section on Easter, thanks to this virus.  But I have friends that are self employed and are hurting badly. So what you are saying is that they should have been saving for a rainy day? But you are retired and therefore do not worry about where your next check is coming from! These people have families that rely on their income, it's not just them. And most have animals as well.  You are making yourself sound very self-involved!  

Palopony, I was writing some "medical stuff" as you were struggling with your post.

I wasn't aware of your rule that I need to stick to "medical stuff".

Here's my friendly advice to you: Give it up.  Your attempts to convince people that Trump is the reason for the Covid19 or the collapse of the economy, you are striking out.  You sound lame, and I'm embarrassed for you.  Anyone can see your main goal is to impugn Trump, and your understanding of the subject matter is very weak.

Scott Why are you so d*mn multi-dimensional.  You're a freak of nature.  LOL

Why would you MAKE your husband watch everyday, watching these press conferences everyday for 2 hours is not healthy for any soul. And I just dont have the time, well really the want too to sit in front a TV all day watching press conferences I have way to much to do around here to be sitting in front of a TV. And I AM a TRUMP supporter and always will be, so thank you but no thank you to the challenge of sitting in front of a TV... 

TRUMP 2020

And now heres another statement that really bothers me, you saying {I personally dont care if people go back to work or not} since you dont have to work, why would you say something like that?!! People are losing homes, their business,their sanity over the fear of not being able to take care of their familys. That right there just reminded me of Hillary Clinton and how she didnt give a rats a** about the people that were killed in Benghazi and their familys..I just dont understand how people think this way of their fellow humans.. Just so sad.. 

Oh so we're giving financial advice to the lowly commoners now.  
"Save for a rainy day".....check.  

I'm amazed at your statement about not caring if people work or not.  Working people make our country run on a daily basis.   And I know young couples that haven't had time to save for a rainy day and ARE NOT living above their means that are in DIRE straits.  Young children that need food and clothes and rent payments that need to be made on BUSINESS locations but there is NO.MONEY.COMING.IN.   They want to work but can't.  Don't have the privilege of "being happy" they don't have to work.  My very close friend's husband is working full time for a farmer and also building furniture on the side (before this all hit), but she is a barber and is shut down.   Cried because she couldn't pay rent on her shop the first day of April.   Know what they did when they got the stimulus check--she took her half and paid her rent for two months and husband is gonna put a roof on his shop so he can work that second furniture job even when it rains.   You know, living above their means.   I'm pretty even keel, but this burned my butt. . . . 

You shouldn't be amazed, Chandler's mom.  Don't be fooled.  Democrats care about one thing, and one thing only - defeating Trump at all costs.  They want the death, misery, and crumbling economy to continue.  People know this, and many are afraid to openly say it.  They love death.....infanticide, euthanasia, population control, and even from a disease, so long as it can be used as a pretense to get their demented, plagiarizing, flip-flopping, pandering, drooling, corrupt white old male basement-ensconced millionaire elected. They thrive on misery.  They love seeing the oil market plummet, so they can advance the notion of their Green New Deal utopia.....except Trump stands in their way.  He needs to be gone.....which is why they, and their liberal media lemmings are so opposed to a transition back to normalcy. They love seeing a recession.....and they celebrate the rising death toll, so they can blame Trump. 
Problem is Trump and his team have done a pretty darn good job.  People know it.  
Stay tuned.....they'll keep trying.

Thank you for answering my questions. 

Is this like the flu where it'll be a different strain every time we see a spike, say in the fall or next winter? Or is that something that won't be known until it happens. The news was talking how there will be another spike in the fall. 

I watched sadly this morning the amazingly long food lines in various parts of the country.  No one can say they're just trolling for free food.  Who wants to sit in a car for hours for beans and flour if you have the cash to go to a grocery store.  Trump's ad where they show Nancy Pelosi sitting in front of her $24K chrome freezer full of gourmet ice cream.....then cutting to the nearly empty common refrigerators of laid off Americans is a work of art.  Big mistake Nancy....huge.

Yuge.  LOL

this is just a guys  idea   but itsd a ascarey thought

https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/how-the-obamas-could-easily-win-8-more-years-in-the-white-house/

At this point, we haven't identified any mutations, but Coronaviruses are RNA viruses, and RNA viruses are much more prone to mutation, versus DNA viruses.  DNA viruses like adenovirus (one of the common cold viruses), herpesviruses (herpes and shingles), EBV, wart viruses (papilloma virus), and chicken pox virus are fairly stable.  Influenza viruses are RNA viruses that are prone to mutate into different strains.  There are over 200 different strains of influenza virus (both A and B).  That's why flu vaccines can be "hit and miss" from one year to the next.  Each year, virologists try to calculate which strains of influenza are most likely to be the greatest threat.  Some years are better than others, but a rule of thumb is that the flu vaccine effectively immunizes 40-60% of flu vaccine recipients.  That doesn't mean the remainder don't benefit.  Most of the rest have some partial immunity, so any clinical cases of flu tend to be milder and recovery is quicker, compared to non-vaccinated.  A "trivalent" vaccine protects against 2 different subtypes of influenza A, plus Influenza B.  

So....I'm getting to the answer to your question.  Back in 2003, SARS (which is a coronavirus closely related to Covid19) took off in the late winter/early spring.  We started to feverishly work on a vaccine, but it died off completely over the summer and hadn't returned.  We abandoned the very expensive SARS vaccine research and development.  There's a possibility that it will die off over summer or at least calm down significantly, but the feeling now is that it will cycle back over the fall and winter.  I think we will definitely see a significant decline over the summer, but I wouldn't bet against recycling back next fall.  The reason is that this virus is so hardy, and we are learning that it is more prevalent than we expected a couple years ago.  Antibody testing is showing a lot more people were infected with Covid19 than we thought......some estimates now say maybe up to 50 times more.  If that's the case, then we are looking at a mortality risk more in line with flu.  I wouldn't bet all my chips on a vaccine, because, as I was saying, RNA viruses do tend to mutate, and if that happens we may miss the mark.

So, bottom line: A vaccine may or may not be effective, IF one can even be developed, and yes, my best guess is it will re-emerge in the fall-winter.  

These complete corrupt idiots like Zeke Emmanuel (the designer of ObamaCare) who say we have to keep the country shut down until we have a vaccine (for the next 1-2 years) should be ignored.  He's an evil bastard who is an extreme progressive socialist-Marxist.  I swear to God if I ever met him I would beat his ass to a pulp.  He's pure evil.  He doesn't care about anything other than extreme socialist-progressivism.  

I agree - I lost my grandmother (who basically raised me as her own child) to it early last week. I am so sorry to hear of your loss.

I'm sorry for your loss.  Yes, it's very real.  
I believe we had to do what we did in mid March.  Had we not done that, I think we could have easily lost 500,000, if not more....maybe a million.  More importantly, several of our major urban areas like NYC would have been overrun, and people would have died, from lack of bed space, or ventilators, or healthcare personnel.  That could have easily led to chaos, collapse, and anarchy.  We'd be in even much worse shape by now.  China will reap the consequences, mark my word.
Given what we knew about this novel coronavirus, Trump's calculation was dead center perfect.  This man is not dumbbell, let me tell you.  If this cycles back next fall, we won't do the same thing.  Lots of things will be different.
Now....things are different.  We have to transition back to as much normalcy as possible.  We have no choice....none.

Between now and the election the Democrats will go off the rails making up fairy tales to blame Trump.  They've already begun.  This time he's ready for them.

Oh for sure.  They will try anything to get rid of Trump.  No limits. They will come up with all sorts of schemes.

They are just evil.

He's taking their hiding places away from them.  Anyone that doesn't see what and who they are by now, has a serious commitment to stupid. 

We can only hope but i am afraid that he will only get some lower level managers thrown under the bus to protect the top.

I'm more of an optimist.

I'm so very sorry for your loss

Sorry for your loss also.

Again, thanks for answering my questions

My sister works as an RN at the Wyoming State Hospital, so she's not working with the general public. They transported 2 patients in last week that are positive. I can't believe they're still transporting patients. Plus it dings the county here and not the county they came from.

3 people she worked with last Wednesday are on quarantine, but she is not. The state health said she wasn't directly exposed. She's been staying away from people as much as possible but still working.

I asked her if she could get the antibody test, I'm curious if she's been exposed and has the antibody. She wasn't sure. 

I told my friend the other night, I'm ready to be able to go back to the bar so I can b*tch about being at the bar