....on Putin's targeted bounty placed on coalition and USA troops in Afghanistan. Briefed in March (although feigns ignorance as usual.). Probably doesn't want to jeopardize the hotel deal he's made with Putin...or worse.  Guess you Trump supporting mofos will keep your hateful fantasy going at ANY cost. 

Tre45on-Make America Sane Again. 

Is that anything like trading five high-level terrorists for a low-level deserter named Bergdahl who caused the deaths of several young soldiers when they went looking for him.

Or giving 150 billion with a B to Iran, along with a million and half in unmarked bills on pallets in a plane destined for Iran.  

Or unwinning the war in Iraq by taking our troops out too soon.

Or failing to send help to a beseiged ambassador in Benghazi, an aide and two special ops, all of whom died because our then President didn't want to admit that Al Queda "wasn't" on the run.

I could go on but it would take pages.  Fast & Furious, IRS Scandal, Spying on an incoming President......

Fake news covered for Barack Obama at every turn just like they step all over President Trump.

@ Mecon and jd&ez: Wow, back-to-back anarchists on the loose...your post is beginning to look like an ANTIFA rally, minus the stuttering of mindless slogans, bad breath and body odor. Mecon, when you're psyching yourself up to drop one of your "I'm making the world a better place" posts, do you have a preparation routine?

So the NYT is reporting that our intelligence has determined that Russia has offered bounties to the Taliban for killing US troops.  Trump is denying he was briefed.  That's the story in a nutshell, correct?

Let me refresh your feeble memory.  Does "Saddam Hussein and WMD's" ring any bells in your vacant mind?  No?  Didn't think so.  

Who are these nuts and how did they get into BHW? Oh, if we could only shipwreck them on the island. 

Well, the beauty of it all is that your question is a rhetorical question, because everyone knows who they are.  At the heart of it all lies the real secret to their existence.  They are always miserable.  That's really the bottom line.  Hate-filled, enraged, people - devoid of any sense of humor, controlled by a demonic, cancerous ideology.

Bear also just described Nancy Pelosi whose answer to this new hoax is "what do the Russians have on Trump."  Really Nancy, you're drawing a huge salary to sit on your butt and make comments that stupid.

Personal attacks again? Do you not have an original thought?

That's just your version. And your version is incorrect as always. I'm never miserable. And I have no hate. Even for the likes of you. I find you rather comical with your holier than thou attitude.

The hate lies in your hero. But the thread originator is not correct in trump being silent. He just put out a "white power" video yesterday. Of course one of his handlers got it removed rather quickly.

And I see the ole Alt-Right, Q-Anon argument has already surfaced in support of Impeached President trump, our guy may be guilty but others are guilty too.  I never can figure how someone is stupid enough to make that argument. But it's an Alt-Right, Q-Anon staple. 

The General said this is "immature leadership". He nailed it.

Bolton said, "Trump is not fit for office". 

And these were your people!! Of course they are not now as your hate filled world will ostrasize them. 

Nope, sorry there Mr Yellow Dog.  Yours is the party of hate.  You are full of it.  The party of death, despair, victimology, pandering, race baiting, and Marxism.  
Bolton has been castigated from both directions.  That book was a huge flop.  You are just p!ssed off that nobody gave credence to him.  So much for your "bombshell".  Trump does not support "White Power".  He's done more for African Americans than your party has in over 20 years.  You know it.  You know what he's done.  Your party has done nothing.  In 47 years what has your candidate done for blacks?  You won't answer because you can't come up with anything other than "whataboutisms". 

I do believe the Party you are bashing for doing nothing has made one President.  I truly think him trying to take healthcare away from millions of people during a pandemic shows his true colors.  Especially since it targets people who can't get insurance because of pre existing conditions.

Such a welcoming bunch of people on here.

Even one of your own liberal rags is reporting this.  Can you people read? or comprehend? 

Fresh evidence Obama ordered up the phony Russiagate scandal

By Post Editorial Board

June 27, 2020 | 10:08pm

 

Enlarge Image

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/Barack-Obama.j... 618w, https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/Barack-Obama.j... 600w, https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/Barack-Obama.j... 1236w" alt="Obama Michael Flynn" />

Former President Barack ObamaGetty Images

Files unsealed in the final stages of Michael Flynn’s years-long court struggle reveal a real stunner — confirmation that President Barack Obama played a central role in foisting the whole phony Russiagate “scandal” on the country.

Notes handwritten by (now disgraced) FBI agent Peter Strzok show Obama, with then-Veep Joe Biden playing along, encouraging the FBI and Justice Department’s investigation of Flynn, even as they were told his actions “appear legit.”

The document, plainly Strzok’s notes of FBI chief Jim Comey’s account, offer more details of the Jan. 5, 2017, Oval Office meeting of Obama, Biden, Comey, National Security Adviser Susan Rice and Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates.

On learning that the FBI was set to close its investigation into Flynn after finding no evidence of wrongdoing, Obama and Biden suggested finding ways to keep it open, with Biden bringing up the (dead letter) Logan Act.

More, the notes have Obama ordering the continued investigation be kept secret from the incoming president and his people: “Make sure you look at things and have the right people on it.”

In the new administration, holdovers Comey and Yates did manage to take out Flynn, sidelining any effective White House oversight of the rogue Russiagate probe — and allowing it to metastasize.

Biden told ABC last month, “I know nothing about those moves to investigate Michael Flynn.” Was he lying, or has his memory grown that bad?

US Attorney John Durham is reviewing the origins of the Russiagate probe to see just what was unlawful or inappropriate. The public needs to hear his report well before November’s election.

You don't make sense.  Proofread.

Wow. I guess this is why I'm seldom on BHW. 

I am trying to be respectful in my response.

I posed your question directly to Special Op's currently deployed. in AFG.  The people who really work this business know that Russia influences AFG.   This has been happening for decades and the press and the Dem's are trying to politicize this.  We still deal with Pakistan and they house the Taliban.  Want a list of other countries full of terrorist we still do business with?  What about the billions Obama gave to Iran used to kill us?  Can I give you the list of men and women who died that were blown up by IED/s that were built with the money that came directly from Obama?    The press is ridiculous.   Besides this info just came out in March and Trump is the one who getting our men out of AFG. Amd   Bear can testify to heated discussions we have had over Trumps slow removal of troops from AFG.  ( Bolton and Mattis wanted to continue the forever war)    

Trump's communication skills suck.  But it takes an unorthodox person to cut through the BS and get us out of AFG.     Bear can testify how much I dislike Trump on a personal level.   But I am deeply grateful that the whack a mole missions our Op's that have been killing our Special Op's guys are stood down.

And Mecon I do enjoy visiting with you -and everyone stick to opinon and do not attack each other personally.  We are better than that...right? 

We need people willing to stand up and fight for our country. Not back down and let them win. It's unpleasant at times. But it must be done.

BHW is open to Dem's and GOP and anyone who wants to share an opinion.  Trump's inability to communicate  well has hurt him.    This makes me sad because I am very grateful that he stood down the troops.    This is very personal to myself and my family and a topic I will be happy to discuss anytime in a civil format.

And lets not forget it was Obama that put us back into AFG - and that is a fact.  Bush drew down on AFG  He went to Iraq where we eventually won after much bloodshed and Obama pulled everyone out which called a vacuum and gave birth to ISIS.

and one more...a President is only as good as their intel and the most reliable intel comes from your human intel from the group.  Sadly their voices are rarely heard....

and while we are on the topic of AFG confronting the Russians diplomatically does nothing but tip our hand.  They will just deny.  The way to fight them is in the shadows via proxy, because whoever leaves their people exposed is vunerable.  

The shadow war cuts out the big gov players the DOS and the DOD...think on that awhile.....

It is really too bad that a few have driven folks away from BHW because they can't stick to discussing issues and facts but usually resort to calling names ...... 

Not necessarily true.  Most folks on this board, including myself, are totally imperivous to name-calling.  

I don't mind being called names that much.  it just doesn't bother me, when I consider the source.  I can bite back in other ways,  including name calling.  Throwing barbs and hurting feelings isn't the worst thing that can happen. 

As far as I'm concerned, we are seeing deeper and wider divisions.  I consider myself at war with an ideology....extreme, far left, socialist-Marxist, progressive liberalism.  Those people are my enemies.  More and more, I'm convinced that the potential of real civil war in the US is a real possibility.  I don't have to give all the evidence.....everyone sees it.

Here you go.  This is much worse than "name calling" and "bullying" as far as these dead kids are concerned. Behold, this, in a city controlled by Democrats for what?  50 years?  This is on you, Democrats.  This is your party.  Your solution: disband and defund police.   Not gonna happen?  Think again.  To wit - Minneapolis. 

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/six-chicago-children-shot-dead-in-a-single-week?utm_campaign=trueAnthem_manual&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook

If names bother you, you aren't cut out for what is coming.  

Can we get back to talking about AFG?

Exposing our human itelligence is immoral.  The NYT should be prosectured along with the leakers.  Our OP's guys ( my son so trust me I know what I am talking about)  faces even more risk every time a reporter with an agenda leaks.    NO ONE needs to know intel except those who can do something with it.   The American citizens do not need to know because it puts our troops in danger.

Why won't anyone discuss this with me?   I promise to be civil .....well as civil as I can be on topic that is so near and dear to my heart.  

LOL .... names don't bother ME ..... it just shows the intelligence of those who can NOT discuss an issue or voice an opinion without trying to denigrate and degrade the other parties of the discussion..... and to be fair....it is both sides of the coin .... and I am really surprised that you didn't have to use a "cut and paste" to make your comment ..... LOL

Additionally leaking HUMINT will limit our ability to drive an operation based off that intel.  The leaker does not want to see any action based of the intel on the battlefield.  They are chosing to score political points instead.   Reprehensible behavior.  

  And btw I am a bipartisian critic.  Bush brought us the war and Obama did nothing but look the other way a forfiet our victory in Iraq.  

It seems that leakers, even if caught, suffer no consequences or are never exposed, fiercely protected by the Democrats as in the case of the "anonymous" whistleblower in the impeachment fiasco.  Personally I don't think there ever even was a whistleblower.

Hannity aptly named the New York Times.......New York Toilet Paper Times.  Remember when Donald Trump Jr. was dragged through the mud by the House over the Trump Tower meeting,  he said Adam Schiff left the room constantly to meet with CNN reporters outside in the hall and it was all supposed to be "classified" and private.

Gail, you and I have talked a lot about this.   As I've always said, I voted for this president precisely because I supported almost every single aspect of his agenda.  I'm much less concerned with his syntax and style, than I am with his agenda.  In that regard, people keep talking about his lies and exaggerations, but when it comes to delivering on promises he has delivered more than anyone in my lifetime.  Where he has failed to deliver, it's not because of a lack of trying.  He's tried, and he's taken drastic steps to overcome his opposition, including that of his own party.  Enough about that.  I understand your focus.  Trump has made no secret of the fact that he wants to get us the hell out of the Middle East....specifically, engaging in proxy wars and getting sucked into perpetual sectarian conflicts.  Trump was opposed to the Iraq invasion. He recognizes we can't spend an eternity providing defense for and fighting battles for Afghanistan.  20 years is long enough.  As Trump has said about a great many things, he is right when he says "We are being played for suckers".  I think he's exactly right.  Like JFK, Trump has to single handedly stand up to the military brass and CIA.  He knows the awesome power of the "Military Industrial Complex" that Eisenhower warned us about, 60 years ago.  Wars are big money.  Modernized weaponry and warfare has advanced to the point where we can strike anywhere with awesome lethality within 24 hours, oftentimes at nearly zero risk to men and women, unless some kid operating a drone from his basement in Grand Forks and stubs his toe on his way to the bathroom.  So why the hell do we need almost 800 military bases around the world, when the next 3 most powerful countries only have a combined total of 25-30?  
Do you remember when Trump decided to pull back from the areas where there were anticipated clashes between Turkish troops and Kurds?  Military brass condemned that move.  They said it was "abandoning our allies" and it weakened our standing and respect.  Ever wonder what became of that?  He was right.  His actions led to our ability to lure out and grease the top 2 leaders of ISIS.  And that genocide everyone was anticipating......what happened?  Trump has been amazingly restrained in his use of military force.  Your son is arguably safer under Trump than he would have been under Bush or Obama.  Trump upgraded and modernized our military, at tremendous expense, but that is actually a move that enhances peace, not the contrary.  Our awesome military is the single best guarantee against WWIII than anything else.  China and Russia know dam good and well that they don't have a prayer against us, even if they combined their effort.  "Peace through strength" is just not some feel good slogan.  It's real and practical.  Keep in mind, Trump is facing a lot of opposition and resistance to implementing his strategy to stop the useless draining of our troops and trillions of dollars.  
In their zeal to bring out their "Russia card", the Dems and NYT have tried to make political hay out of this.  

If you think Peggy has been overwhelming you with too many cut-and-paste posts, you clearly haven't been paying attention.  She has engaged in these debates with her own thoughts and ideas....compared to you, Norma, she has discussed actual issues, whereas the only meaningful contributions you have made is to impugn her and castigate others for "name calling", like some sort of policewoman.  
Debates over political differences are NEVER civil, in the end.  Name calling of one sort or another is part of it.  There is no forum anywhere where there is absolute civility.  It doesn't exist.  If people don't want to get their feelings hurt, they need to be self aware of their emotional fragility and avoid engaging.  

^^^^ BULLSH*T ....... it is only part of this forum because it is "allowed" ..... If a person can not deal in facts...then they have to resort to "name calling" and you are the best at it ..... like I stated it comes from both sides of the "coin" .....Go back and look at the political posts .... you "may" have at the very most 10 or 12 people (out of thousands) who will post .... why? 

Over and OUT ..............

There was no intel leak. It's another made up story.  Just like Russia, Russia, Russia. It's bullsh*t. When a rag like the NYP tells a story with anonymous sources, it's fabricated.  So what is the question after knowing that?  Do you really need to ask who cares about us and our people? It's certainly not the deep state aka cabal aka military industrial complex aka D party/RINO's. Those people are only interested in lining their pockets and gaining/keeping power, regardless of the death and destruction.  

I think we had words over that discussion...lol...and yes my feelings were hurt. LOL!    But hey I can take it. 

I was livid at Trump in February.   Jake was  headed for the most dangerous province in AFG.  And for those who follow these affairs only our Special Operators perform missions and go outside the border.   2019 was a horrible and bloody year for our OP's community as was 2018.  There are only a few hundred OP's deployed to combat zones yearly.  If you do the math we lost about 10 percent of them.  Not to mention those maimed by IED's  ( google Ryan Davis please...another friend of ours)

When Trump was elected he removed the rules of engagement so our men could protect themselves. Obama had severely tied their hands and our men were killed because they could not defend themselves.     When  Trump came into office Mattis convinced him to put the hurt back on the  Taliban.  And boy did we ever.   We hit the Talibian hard and heavy and brought the Taliban to the table to talk.   Is it foolish to negotiatie with terrorists?  well of course but Trump doesn't care.  In his own words at the ramp ceremony at Dover when the body of Green Beret  SGT 1st Class Antonio Rodriguez was brought home his widow broke out from the area where the familes were stationed.  She ran to the casket hysterical and literally had to dragged away.   Trump was there on when he left he told an aide " I don't want one more man to die in Afghanistan".  He was visably angry.    Shortly after we signed the peace deal with the Taliban.    Both Mattis and Bolton wanted to continue the endless war.  That is a fact.    And btw...what do you really know about Mattis?   Perhaps you may believe that words of  Lt. Col. Jason Amerine who testified Mattis refused to send medics in to rescue men down in a firefight in AFG in 2001.     He isn't without fault as is any of them.  

I really find Trump's (what I call "toilet twitt's) not acceptable.      But there is no denying that he is the one that is ending the war in AFG.    On a personal level I really liked GW Bush but he wasn't a good president.   The bailouts the war in Iraq.....really not so great.   And was not all of America proud we elected a Black for president?  I know I was but his pay off to the Iranians in my opinion was treason among his socialist programs and over regulations. 

So here we have an Ahole like Trump who actually is ending the war.   And what does the press and the Dem's and GOP say?    He endangered troops.   Shaking my head here ...  and I may need to brag just a bit but I doubt there are many congressman who know what I know about AFG.  When it is your own flesh and blood involved believe me...you will learn everything you can.   And the fact is Trump has done more for our troops that Bush or Obama because he is ending the war in AFG.

There is probably truth to the story but that does not mean it made it to Trump's briefings.  Let's think for a moment who stands to gain by keeping the endless war going......funny how this comes to light now that we are on the verge of getting our of AFG.  In fact my son may be one the last men deployed in the hot zone.    And if it were up to him and would be tearing down AFG because that is the nature on the war fighter......but it will get us  no where.  We can perform CAS anywhere and not need to continue the whack a mole missions that cost so many lives.  

Listen Norma. I am who I am and I will say what I believe to be true, how I want to say it.  If I didn't cut and paste, you would call me a liar.  If I do, you think I have no thoughts of my own or don't read what I'm posting.  I once called you disingenuous. It's true. You bring nothing of worth to any of these discussions. You're the googlegirl.  You don't have an ounce of credibility because all you do is so called "fact check". Google is manipulating their searches to only give the narrative THEY want you to see.  Grow up.  Start reading. Get up to speed.  Either be a liberal or be a thinking person. Name calling works both ways. If you're so informed, you see the liberals on this board say "mean" things too.  Bye. I'm putting you back on ignore as you will not have anything worth responding to anyway. 

Someone needs to teach me how to post pictures with words!

That is Ryan  - he grew up in  Edmond.  His Dad hosted my daughters engagement party.  Family friend...

This is the after math of the horrible war in AFG.   The bomb that blew up Ryan was built in Iran ..you know the country Obama gave billions to?   

Those in glass houses should not throw rocks...there is plenty of blame to go around between both parties. 

Norma - let's move past this.  I would be very interested in learning your opinion of the war in AFG and the rumors that Russia put bounties on Americans.   Didn't your husband serve?  Where did he serve?  I don't think we should overlook the fact that you also come from a military family. 

I read this morning that IRAN (not Russia) was offering $1000 bounty for each of our brave men and women they could kill. Soleimani was the mastermind behind the IED's.  It's logical that Iran did this.  Russia is the deep state's go-to villain. They constantly have to go back to their preferred creation story and hook Trump to Russia. They can't blame Iran because that would make their "deal" with Iran all the more suspect and dirty Ovomit's legacy. As if half the country didn't already know he's an evil puke.    

So therefore, the story MAY have some partial nugget of truth to it. But the fact that they used Russia in the villan role makes the story untrue.  POTUS has our military killing all these terrorist leaders as fast as our military can locate them.  That's more than Ovomit did. 

Peggy I won't copy your post and maybe we should update the forums to make it more user friendly ( suggestions welcome) 

You are exactly correct on Iran.   

I thought Trump was an idiot for pulling out of Syria ( Bear didn't you and I have a heated discussion about that ? )   Guess what.. I was wrong.   And the men that have actually fought there will tell you we never promised we would stay there forever.    

I would be very curious how everyone feels about NAT0 also ?

I find all this very informative.  Thanks Gail for the mother of a soldier view too.  

Over the last 3.5 years I have gone from voting for 45 as the anti-Killary vote, to OMG is he crazy, to cautiously optimistic, to OMG I think I like him, to OMG what a GREAT president.  I have been reading and listening to more political analysis in one day than in the first 60 years of my life. 

They think he's stupid, he's a genius. They think they have him cornered and he busts out and makes them look like the liars and fools they are. The first step to getting where I am is to stop listen or reading ANYTHING that a left leaning person says or writes.  They are nucking futs.  Turn off all the alphabet news stations and find a handful of good independent content creators. 

Norma, I'm not going to insult your intelligence by suggesting you believe what you wrote. 
Your bold red words and overuse of quotation marks can't hide the fact that you seldom contribute anything meaningful, like Peggy pointed out.  You did said nothing to refute my premise that political debates are not warm and fuzzy and devoid of heated back-and-forth.  If my engagement scares someone away from jumping in with their point of view, I submit the problem is not mine.  It's a lack of courage in engaging and demonstrating the courage of their convictions.  When was the last time you actually contributed anything germane to a given topic? 
I post facts all the time.  Go back to when there was a ton of interest in Covid19, for example.  I took a lot of time explaining things and laying out facts.  I post facts all the time.  I answer questions all the time. People learn a few things.  That's just a fact.  I also post opinions.  In matters of politics you cannot ban emotional exchanges.
Facts and opinions are what forums are all about.  You get a mix.  

NATO wouldn't exist without the US.  NATO was a child of the Cold War.  It was an alliance whose goal was to combat the threat of aggression from the former Soviet Union.  The Soviet Union no longer exists, partly because Marxism has an inherently short life span, and partly because they couldn't keep up with the US.  Now there's Russia. Their military capability is nothing compared to that of the former Soviet Union.  
For decades, NATO members failed to meet their commitment of 2% of their GDP to defense spending.  The US spent nearly 4% of their GDP on defense spending.  Of the 30 members of NATO, only the US, Great Britain, and Greece met their agreed commitment of at least 2%. The U.S. pays 22 percent of the total NATO budget and makes up 67 percent of the defense budget (which is already included in the total budget).
Trump had the guts and audacity to call NATO out on this.  He was excoriated for this, but he was right and he knew it. Everyone knew he was right, but nobody expected a US president to have the guts to put their feet to the fire.

That's why "they" hate him and why I love him.  He's shaking everything up.  Taking power and money out of the deep states hands. Exposing their corrupt schemes. Their evil. When he's done all the deepstate-ish crap will be exposed.   

I would still like Norma's opinion because is does matter.

Let me pose this question .... what has NATO done for us lately? 

Exactly. We supported them for decades and what do they do for us but take our money and disrespect us. 

Norma what do you think?

Why so you can attack her some more??? I thought you had her on your ignore list?

She's attacking her?  Is that what you call it?

Sorry ....been gone for a couple of hours..... IF you really want my opinion .... I couldn't agree with Scott more...Nato was past due for restructuring ..... you see there are a lot of things that I agree with and have input in with facts....and Roxie .... it is not called attacking but "baiting" ..... they "bait" with the hope that I will say something that then they CAN jump on ... I have always enjoyed the debating of issues, etc, however, in the past year or so, it has become no more than a "few" (on BOTH sides) that refuse to discuss issues without snide remarks ...... I don't need that kind of aggravation! 

NJJ we agree NATO!

If we look hard enough we are going to find that we agree on more than we disagree.   We are close to a civil war in America.   Are we not going to be allowed to have an opinion without being attacked?  Come on folks we need to figure this out.  

I love baiting woke snowflakes, Marxists, and Antifa supporting progressive leftists.  It works well.  

She wants to be part of the conversation.  Instead of attacking me why don't you tell us what you know?

BTW Ponygirl Go back and read this thread. Where did I call her a name?  But one of your allies called every one of us conservatives names in the very first post.   Hypocrite much?

Here's something for the left lovers to enjoy 

https://www.laurencomelemorris.com/post/who-killed-austin-texas-the-live-music-capitol-of-the-world-yields-to-a-communist-revolution?fbclid=IwAR2Yl6rGG6_ky1AbCdRppQl-N83ft1Dkg8W3o1L5gEXcsjNHfoXtxm9FdgM

Thanks for posting.  I'm going to share the sh!t out of this.

This is the Democrat party.

This thread is a good example of what is why we are at the brink of civil war  with our  country.  Name calling ...from Mo fo's to Snowflakes.   This is a political debate and our own rules state enter at your own risk but I think we should be better than name calling.  

Really it breaks my heart and this is NOT what BHW was intended for.   Stick to the facts - we are talking about AFG and the original poster made an incendiary comment but has yet to reply to my response.

I support many of Trump's actions so Mecon does that make me a MO FO ?     So deal with it.  I consider myself an American above and beyond any political party and I do not condone Trump's method of communicating.  

And Bear - cool it on the name calling.   Aren't you like a  Rhodes Scholar?   You are much smarter than I am.  So don't embarrass me with my igorance .  I am doing the best I can.  

Carry on everyone. 

A preview of our future. This is what we can all look forward to if POTUS doesn't win in November.    

Actually we are already in a war. We haven't started shooting yet. But they have. If people still side with the [D] party they are part of the problem.  They keep pushing and pushing. Changing everything America stands for.  They won't be satisfied until the communism and control they want is in place on all of us.  The silent majority has started to see the future they want and we are fighting back.  I won't be silent anymore. They have drawn the rules up and the rules aren't nice clean debates on facts. They don't have facts. They are immune from facts.  This war is going to get dirtier until the election.  That's a fact.  That's why I love POTUS. He fights back instead of being a GOP pussy we've had for too long.  We either get our country back or we are done. 

If you watched Tucker last night he outlined what would happen if Dems won the House, Senate and White House this election.  Open borders and the right to vote for all illegals which would mean no Republican party in the future which in short means a dictatorship.  It was depressing so I turned to Laverne and Shirley.  

....and Biden, what kind of a moron running for president promises to raise taxes and then taunts you with "most of you probably aren't going to like that."  Hey man, higher taxes and open borders, we're gonna love all this.  What else ya got?  Oh yeah, no comment whatsoever on defunding law enforcement.  We don't want that either.

that won't stop it with out a lot of other things happening. 

He's tried for 4 years to do things and has been stone walled at every turn. 

If the GOP does not grow a set and back him up, even when it's uncomfortable it will not make a hill of beans if he's re-elected 

I disagree that he's not doing anything. It just hasn't hit the mainstream.....yet. 

But you are right about the GOP members. Some are RINO's and the few that have some courage are helping. But there are too many that have no courage at all.  

After 35 years of marriage I’ve learned when my wife gets her gander up, its wise to stand down. 

I agree with her, we must be better than the people we criticize.  That's what is wrong with this country and this world.  We will never rid ourselves of the disagreements, but we have lost our ability to respect each others differences.  And it starts at the top.

You must show respect, to get respect.  A leader - has to take the lead - and be a peacemaker, not a name caller.  JMO.  On the other hand, I'll take actions over a great communicator.  Action talks, bull**** walks.

Getting both would be nice.

how does one get their gander up? 

In the last election I remember that some restuarants had signs that said no political talk allowed bc of fights breaking out!  i never understood people getting so heated over elections....til now!!!! I am sad that I am one of the ones that didnt understand why people get so upset! 

But I get it now!!! I too am catching myself in the division!  Tho I try not to but it is there. 

I look at my co-workers and wonder will you stand up and fight for America when the time comes??? Do you believe that all this evil is ok???

Tell you what, Gail. I'll drop the "snowflakes".....the rest is a no deal.  There are Marxists, Antifa, anarchists, Progressives-Liberals.  That's exactly what they are.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyLLz2HRH8

We are in the fight of our lives....FOR our lives. 

Those are the old rules.  That doesn't apply. 

Does this look like respect? 

No.  But that's what is missing.  There is no respect.  It's gone.  You can't have an intelligent and useful dialogue without it.

You think the people getting killed by these antifa/BLM hoods didn't RESPECT the looters/rioters and thats why they were killed? Or is the respect they require is to give them everything we own or have worked for?  They get to take our rights away... that's the respect they need?  Tell me what does that respect look like? 

Obviously the people doing the rioting/assaulting are the ones lacking respect   . . .  for anything.

So . . . . where is respect taught?

I thought we were talking about Afghanistan? 

LOL - let's just start another thread and talk about the anarchists and yes those are anarchists!

So without one side having any respect, how does one reason with someone who is unreasonable?  How do you debate someone when there is nothing they can agree on as a starting point.  They hate America. I love it. 

I can't give them the respect they need when the root of the problem is they don't respect themselves. If they did, they wouldn't be killing each other at the rate they are. People who respect themselves don't let others use them. 

Bottomline Dave is that this is not something that can be fixed by talking about it.  We can argue all we want, call names or don't call names It doesn't matter. What's going to save this country is to take their power and money away. To neuter them. Make them pay for their treason. 

Respect is taught amongst family members as in parents and the elders, and you are right Dave, respect is lacking everywhere and its starting to lack on BHW too, We used to have so much fun on here and then supporting each other in a crisis, and its just really sad to see what has happen here, we need to get that respect back on here and stop tearing others down that dont agree on something that someone else thinks is right, I'm quilty of doing that when pushed but now I'm just sitting back and watching, was called out but not going to take that bait. The Rioters are lost souls that didnt have a mom are dad or grandmothers/fathers to show them the way. Respect starts at home and the heart and should be spread among each other. When threads like this gets started I really learned alot about some of the members on here, I'm sure I'll be called out again but this is my opinion about respect.

TRUMP 2020

Except without our own community we can treat each other with civility.  Within our own forum we can at least hear each other out.  So Mecon you came on here and called the majority MOFO's and then you vanish.   That behavior does not warrant respect from anyone.....still waiting for a response Mecon. ?? 

Don't get me wrong.  Without respect, these thugs do what they want.  You are not going to reason with them and they will only respond to the threat to their own safety.  Usually pain gets thru to them pretty quickly and whether they like it or not, ONLY then do they start to respect . . . oops, there's that word again.

its best to stay down hill when a lady like gail iget po   its going to get western

i just kinda wish when they start with the mouth and say f.....  this and that along those lines smile pretty and say peace bro flower in ur hair 

while you castrate them in ur mind. don/ t  go to their level and its tough i was am  very bad about wanting to, but they are mob mentality

I googled my term "gander".  Oppps.  it's actually "dander".  I've been misusing that term for nearly 40 years or more, incorrectly. 

Thankfully no one called me out and corrected me all these years.

  Enough of THAT malarky, eh?

us old farts knew exactly what you meant  :)

It's a combination of things.  Everyone knows.  Here's my opinion (short version). In the case of young spoiled, pampered, coddled kids who haven't learned consequences of their action either in the home or schools.  Kids who are given participation trophies. Kids who have never been spanked when they had it coming.  Kids who don't know how to handle winning with humility and losing with grace. In the case of Blacks, kids raised without fathers...75% of black kids born without a father in the home. 

When it comes to political differences, civility and mutual respect may be attempted, initially, but almost without fail, debates get heated and "respect" is the first casualty.  I challenge anyone to show me where there is a clash of political ideologies, and the dialog is civil and respectful.  This isn't new. Politics is also, bottom line, about power. In the annals of world history, power is gained and maintained by hate, vitriol, and ultimately violence. That's just a fact.  Nobody can dispute this. Our two-party system, which pits Republicans and Democrats against each other in an endless struggle over just how activist and large a role government should play in people's lives, is tailor made for passionate arguments.  This idealistic, whimsical notion that political debate should be "respectful" is an exercise in futility.  In fact, if you look back in the 19th century, there were several instances of fistfights and brawls breaking out in congress.  Once, a congressman was literally caned in Congress....held down and beat by fellow congressmen with their walking canes.  Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing a brawl or two.  What we see now is nothing like it used to be.  At least we don't have duels, like when Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel. 

So, the question is, do we want American politics being denatured and stripped of its political passions with our politicians becoming as emotionless as Spock, the Star Trek Vulcan?    

Wasn't that the premise of the entire setting for Star Trek?  I thought the Enterprise flew in an enlightened era where we no longer resorted to violence, but instead sought only to discover new life.  (those guns WERE set to stun, were they not?)

Gail there is only a handful of people on BHW that start these treads I call them drive by shooters. Mecon is one of the worst. She/he will not engage in a debate. Mecon jumps on here say something hateful bigoted or irrational to start the fire than stands back to watch it burn. As to name calling if you look back as who started the name calling it is usually one of the fire starters and human nature being what it is someone will fire back. I don't think you can stop it. Politics is a blood sport. If you think we are getting out of hand please read up on the elections of the 1800's this is nothing.

Proton torpedoes were badass.  They vaporized.  Ass kicking brawls were routine on Star Trek.  Kirk always won. 
I'd give anything for a phaser.  I'd set that sucker on "stun" and disperse those Democrat anarchists in no time.

Since this thread is about the current state of our country and the upcoming election I going to give a quote from 60 years ago. " We can't expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assit their elected leaders ingiving them small doses of Socialism until they awaken one day to find they have Communism." Nikita Khrushchev first Sec.of the USSR  This is what this election is all about.

Oh .... I am WAAAAAY past this .... LOL

I DON'T just "google" (OregonBR, thanks for the stab!) 

I DON'T just believe the media or any TV/blog personality's "opinions"

I DO try to fact check (and, OregonBR, I DO add to the discussion. Some just don't want to hear it)

I have lived through TWELVE Presidents .... NONE were perfect

I have voted for Democrats and Republicans (even Trump)

I DON'T vote party line because there are good and bad in BOTH parties and, IMO, to lump them all in the same basket is ludicrous.

I do have a long line of military in my family including my Father, Brother, Father-in-law, Husband, Son, Brother-in-law, Niece, 7 Uncles, 1 Aunt, and 10 Cousins

This country wasn't built on just conservative or liberal views but a combination and collaboration of both, which seems to be missing, here (BHW) and today in this country. SO forgive me if I can be offended when lumped into the same categories of Socialists, Marxists, Antifa, Anarchists, Liberals, Snowflakes or any other derogatory or denigrating names used here on BHW.....just because I don't agree with you or that I present facts that prove you wrong!

Now, to answer Gail's question. I believe that we should have left all wars in the Middle East a long time ago. The only ones who benefit from long term conflicts are those who produce the supplies etc. for war. Regarding, the latest information on the bounty put on the heads of our soldiers is that I (nor does anyone else) have enough information, at this point in time, to base my opinion of whether it is true or not ....

Norma I agree about the Mid East!

But were you aware it is the Dem's keeping us in the Mid East?  And I agree that Trump's messaging about Russia paying the Taliban isn't up to speed but let's be real...AFG is proxy war.   Iran being the biggest contributor. ....

And Mattis and Bolton were dead set to keep the missions going.   

As far as anarchists and I don't that was in reference to you.  ??

Hey just because we disagree doesn't mean we dislike each other.  And my opinioins reflect the "War Fighters" and those are less than 1 percent of the entire Military.   

If you were president and you were told someone was paying the Taliban/Isis or whomever to kill American soldiers what is the first thing you would do?  Stop our soldiers exposure to the threat?  WE DID.  

What is the second thing you would do?  Confront the country or individual suspected of the bounty?  Of course!  But you better be pretty **** sure you have facts and not rumors before you call them out. 

What if your intel sources did not all agree?  Has your intel been wrong in the past?  What if the media already leaked the rumor from one of your less than loyal intel sources,  and left you hung out to dry?

Mecon.....your response?

Norma I agree about the Mid East!

But were you aware it is the Dem's keeping us in the Mid East?  And I agree that Trump's messaging about Russia paying the Taliban isn't up to speed but let's be real...AFG is proxy war.   Iran being the biggest contributor. ....

And Mattis and Bolton were dead set to keep the missions going.   

As far as anarchists and I don't that was in reference to you.  ??

Hey just because we disagree doesn't mean we dislike each other.  And my opinioins reflect the "War Fighters" and those are less than 1 percent of the entire Military.   

I do find those two statements kind of an oxymoron ...... the Dems are promoting it but those who were appointed by the Republican President were trying to keep it going ......

Gail, you do realize that in January of this year, the Democratic held House voted to rescind the 2002 Military Authorization Law that gives only the President the power to engage in military action without the approval of Congress. It was a (slight) bi-partisan vote since those of BOTH parties were tired of military conflicts. However, the Republican held Senate voted it down .... so blaming just the Democrats for the continued military actions in the Middle East is not entirely true! Unfortunately, the regimes of the Middle East are so intertwined that it is hard to stomp on one of them without raising the ire of the others. 

Regarding the "bounty" placed on the lives of our soldiers....

Do I believe that Russia did it? I don't KNOW because I have not seen any concrete facts to prove they did or didn't.

Do I believe that our Intelligence agencies were aware of it? I tend to think that they "probably" did have some intel concerning that issue but were seeking to ferret out the facts.

Do I believe that the President was made aware of that intel? I would think that such intel would have been passed along to him with the caveat that it had not been verified.

It doesn't surprise me that so many people don't believe that he did NOT receive this information. He has been caught in SO many lies that, now, he appears untrustworthy. And you can't blame the media for that when you have tapes, etc to prove his lies! 

we do not belong in other countries bring our guys and gals home period bring our equipment home from all europe middle east africa   japan  bring them home

the middle east has fought each other since bc   .as far as i am concern lbj was the very  worst    nam welfare and yes i think believe he was in cahoot to have jfk killed

I do find those two statements kind of an oxymoron ...... the Dems are promoting it but those who were appointed by the Republican President were trying to keep it going ......

Gail, you do realize that in January of this year, the Democratic held House voted to rescind the 2002 Military Authorization Law that gives only the President the power to engage in military action without the approval of Congress. It was a (slight) bi-partisan vote since those of BOTH parties were tired of military conflicts. However, the Republican held Senate voted it down .... so blaming just the Democrats for the continued military actions in the Middle East is not entirely true! Unfortunately, the regimes of the Middle East are so intertwined that it is hard to stomp on one of them without raising the ire of the others. 

Regarding the "bounty" placed on the lives of our soldiers....

Do I believe that Russia did it? I don't KNOW because I have not seen any concrete facts to prove they did or didn't.

Do I believe that our Intelligence agencies were aware of it? I tend to think that they "probably" did have some intel concerning that issue but were seeking to ferret out the facts.

Do I believe that the President was made aware of that intel? I would think that such intel would have been passed along to him with the caveat that it had not been verified.

It doesn't surprise me that so many people don't believe that he did NOT receive this information. He has been caught in SO many lies that, now, he appears untrustworthy. And you can't blame the media for that when you have tapes, etc to prove his lies! 

I like hearing your honest opinion Norma We all have our opinions. 

TRUMP 2020

I do find those two statements kind of an oxymoron ...... the Dems are promoting it but those who were appointed by the Republican President were trying to keep it going ......

Gail, you do realize that in January of this year, the Democratic held House voted to rescind the 2002 Military Authorization Law that gives only the President the power to engage in military action without the approval of Congress. It was a (slight) bi-partisan vote since those of BOTH parties were tired of military conflicts. However, the Republican held Senate voted it down .... so blaming just the Democrats for the continued military actions in the Middle East is not entirely true! Unfortunately, the regimes of the Middle East are so intertwined that it is hard to stomp on one of them without raising the ire of the others. 

Regarding the "bounty" placed on the lives of our soldiers....

Do I believe that Russia did it? I don't KNOW because I have not seen any concrete facts to prove they did or didn't.

Do I believe that our Intelligence agencies were aware of it? I tend to think that they "probably" did have some intel concerning that issue but were seeking to ferret out the facts.

Do I believe that the President was made aware of that intel? I would think that such intel would have been passed along to him with the caveat that it had not been verified.

It doesn't surprise me that so many people don't believe that he did NOT receive this information. He has been caught in SO many lies that, now, he appears untrustworthy. And you can't blame the media for that when you have tapes, etc to prove his lies! 

Believe it or not, the dems are not as eager as they say they are when it comes to ending never ending conflicts.  

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/505568-house-panel-votes-to-constrain-afghan-drawdown-ask-for-assessment-on

Bolton has always been a Hawk.  And the worse kind, admitting he would never allow his own son to serve.

Mattis, is loved by his men, marines only.  Or so we were told.  Other branches of the services were never that enthusiastic.  (Another story) 

Both were chosen by Trump, I agree.  Mattis is a General, first and foremost.  He is judged by field experience, not desk experience so it's to be expected he needs a war.

The Senate turning the bill down because it restricted the authority of the President.   Rememer the Dem's were outraged that our incredible Spec Op's covertly killed Soleimani.

Hold Russia and the Taliban both accountable.  The enemy is the enemy...and we don't even know as country who that is.  The Taliban doesn't need a bounty to kill Americans...or ISIS.   And its is a fact - our Spec Op's were already stood down when Adam Schiff received the message.  Depending on what media source you believe it is being reported he knew and  held back the info.  Regardless AFG has always been a proxy war.   

I knew your husband was a Veteran!What branch of Military did he serve in?

Believe it or not, the dems are not as eager as they say they are when it comes to ending never ending conflicts.  

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/505568-house-panel-votes-to-constrain-afghan-drawdown-ask-for-assessment-on

Bolton has always been a Hawk.  And the worse kind, admitting he would never allow his own son to serve.

Mattis, is loved by his men, marines only.  Or so we were told.  Other branches of the services were never that enthusiastic.  (Another story) 

Both were chosen by Trump, I agree.  Mattis is a General, first and foremost.  He is judged by field experience, not desk experience so it's to be expected he needs a war.

The Senate turning the bill down because it restricted the authority of the President.   Rememer the Dem's were outraged that our incredible Spec Op's covertly killed Soleimani.

Hold Russia and the Taliban both accountable.  The enemy is the enemy...and we don't even know as country who that is.  The Taliban doesn't need a bounty to kill Americans...or ISIS.   And its is a fact - our Spec Op's were already stood down when Adam Schiff received the message.  Depending on what media source you believe it is being reported he knew and  held back the info.  Regardless AFG has always been a proxy war.   

I knew your husband was a Veteran!What branch of Military did he serve in?

Army ..... Viet Nam Era ...... however, he was one of the lucky ones and was stationed in Okinawa and only made short trips to VN. Many of my classmates (men & women) and best friends were in that war. Two did not make it home!  

It's fiction.  

Trump already knows. He has the NSA. They have everything.  If someone needs to be removed from the planet, you don't think POTUS is going to worry about offending the left do you? But they will sure criticize him for anything he does. No matter what it is.    

Spock had emotions.  He just thought them . . . . 

Army ..... Viet Nam Era ...... however, he was one of the lucky ones and was stationed in Okinawa and only made short trips to VN. Many of my classmates (men & women) and best friends were in that war. Two did not make it home!  

We sure treated our Viet Nam Vet's terribly didn't we?  It is shameful.

And Norma I agree with you on Trump and his Foreign Policy inconsistenties.  I literally went ape sh*t on the man in February when our ODA Teams were being picked off by the Taliban. 

Ultimately it was Trump who decided to put the hurt back on the  Taliban and he and he alone should bear that responsibility.  He picked Mattis and must bear that responsbility.   But then he also MUST be given credit for the fact that our troops are stood down in AFG and we are in still engaged in the AFG Peace Treaty.    It is widely known Trump has no appetitie to continue the endless war and it took a bull headed unorthodox man like Trump to say "enough".   20 years is enough.  Thousand of lives lost, limbs lost and trillions of dollars.  It is enough.

My opinon is influenced by the role my son plays as a  Special Operator.  I may not feel the same if he worked in another field.  And during deployments I am super grouchy from lack of sleep.  But this deployment is much easier because they are stood down.   I hope and pray Trump does not change his mind and go kinetic again.  

Norma have you read the House Armed Forces Committee's meetings?  Very interesting......it is public record - let me try and find that for you.  
""

We sure treated our Viet Nam Vet's terribly didn't we?  It is shameful.

And Norma I agree with you on Trump and his Foreign Policy inconsistenties.  I literally went ape sh*t on the man in February when our ODA Teams were being picked off by the Taliban. 

Ultimately it was Trump who decided to put the hurt back on the  Taliban and he and he alone should bear that responsibility.  He picked Mattis and must bear that responsbility.   But then he also MUST be given credit for the fact that our troops are stood down in AFG and we are in still engaged in the AFG Peace Treaty.    It is widely known Trump has no appetitie to continue the endless war and it took a bull headed unorthodox man like Trump to say "enough".   20 years is enough.  Thousand of lives lost, limbs lost and trillions of dollars.  It is enough.

My opinon is influenced by the role my son plays as a  Special Operator.  I may not feel the same if he worked in another field.  And during deployments I am super grouchy from lack of sleep.  But this deployment is much easier because they are stood down.   I hope and pray Trump does not change his mind and go kinetic again.  

Norma have you read the House Armed Forces Committee's meetings?  Very interesting......it is public record - let me try and find that for you.  
""

No, I haven't and would love to see them. These last few months have been pretty hectic here with my emergency health problem and surgery and my husband's ongoing health problems. I have tried to stay away from the political "sh*t" (excuse me) because the constant bickering makes me sick to see the state of this country! This is one of those times that I am happy that I am OLD ...... LOL

question ...... IF he already knew, WHY lie and say that he was NEVER informed? All he had to do was say that, yes, I had been informed early on but we are still investigating for verification ..... 

Whatever happened to the disaster all the experts were expecting when Trump decided to pull out those 50-100 advisors from Syria?  That story sure evaporated quickly.  Why?  Because he was right.  They hated JFK when he proved them wrong as well. Keep that in mind. Both the top brass and military-industrial-complex hated him for his willingness to go against their wishes. 
Trump has consistently been in favor of getting us out of the ME.  Not Mattis.  Not Bolton. Not Obama.  Not Bush.  That's been his position on the ME for many years before he even decided to run.  He wants those countries to sort out their differences amongst themselves. He thinks we've been suckered into spending $8 Trillion in the ME, with nothing to show for it.  In fact, he contends our presence has made things worse, if anything.  That's how his push to make us energy independent dovetails into his ME goals.  Other than his stance on Iran, he has worked hard to achieve his goal of keeping us out of ME entanglements.  A nuclear armed Iran cannot be allowed, and Trump knows this.  Slow but sure, Trump is getting us out.  
This does not go over well with the deep state.  The military-industrial-complex stands to lose a lot, in the long run.   
As to Trumps lies and exaggerations, it's true.  Politicians lie.  It's in their DNA. He's lied about things that were inconsequential.  Bush and Obama's lies were extremely consequential.  When it comes to promises made -promises kept, Trump has excelled.  

That's a big "if".  We don't know to what extent he's been informed, or even if he's been informed.  This is a tempest in a teapot, in my opinion. 

Norma .... so being that this is a proxy war other countries have been using the Taliban to kill since the start.  These groups get their direction from Iran whom according to the State Department is the largest state sponsor of terror in the world.  The same Iran that was awarded billions by Biden/Obama.  So pick your poison...Biden who has already paid of terrorists or Trump whose big mouth insults people but is ending the war in AFG.   

Let time tell if Trump knew or now but it since he had the troops stood down it isn't as relative as one may think.  

Norma so your husband worked in the business of war and was not a combat soldier? Correct?  I am greatly influenced by the war fighter.   So you could say I am jaded.

I sure am injoying this conversation between Gail and Norma its very mature. Since I have not been keeping up with the news. The only time I hear anything its on the radio when we are going to town, I love to listen to Sean Hannity and Joe Pags {sometimes} and love Michael Berry but since I dont go any where often I'm out of the loop on most things so learning things here, I'm not the type to sit and listen to radio/ you tube all day long. Thanks ladies really enjoying this