what are the different types you have seen where both parents live fairly close? I'm going to make sure to get legal custody but hate having an actual schedule because they are in 4h etc. Can parents make it work on a "as wanted" basis? This guy has only wanted them as is "convenient" before. But I figured if he wanted them on some weekends and take turn at holidays and summer here and there it would work. I've been adamant about supervised and have said a lot of "no's" since the incident, we'll call it. So he feels I'll fight him later for visitation I suppose.  But after they make him take some anger and aa classes I'd be more open minded. When he's at his best, he's a good dad and the kids enjoy him. At his worst, he's quite toxic. It sounds like he's ready for the divorce to progress as well. Thank God!!!

DONT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!

I been through a couple and it was a roller coaster! and we didn't have kids! They will play you to get what they want and they will act like they changed and straighten up!  and then they will be angry and you like where that come from. and then they go back and forth! They will lie more to you during this time than any other time! Get as much control over the kids now that you can!  And later on when this all settled down and you see that all good and the papers are all signed and he follows the rules for long time then you can let him have whenever both in agreement without attorneys. But if you start swaying now you will lose your advantage! Im not saying take him for every thing and not let him see the kids but set it up like on his worst behaviour! then you can adjust after everything signed and finalized.  If you felt the need for supervised at one time they need to be bc emotions are super high and not saying you but parents will take out on kids and use them.  and also dont believe him when he says ill pay you this much for support unless it is in writing! or any money unless in writing! bc most generally they dont follow thru!

GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING AND FILED AND SIGNED BEFORE YOU RELAX!!!! IF HE MAN OF HIS WORD IT WONT BOTHER HIM TO HAVE IN WRITING if you two agree! if not he be mad bc you should believe him without it being in writing! theny you know he trying to play you!

DONT RELAX!!!!

We had joint legal and physical custody with me being primary custody and final decision maker... well, now we are in a custody battle. I say ask for sole custody with reasonable visitation

I'm certainly no expert in these matters, but I've been to the same painful party as you.  Even though we has joint custody, I was the custodial parent and the attorneys worked out a somewhat detailed specific visitation schedule, but that also included some wording that indicated the necessity of both parties to have some mutual flexibility and willingness to make adjustments that might arise, yada yada yada.

Bottom line is you both need to come to an understanding that your lives will be much better if you are both determined to work together and recognize the importance of flexibility and give-and-take.  You get the basic idea.  Obviously, a lot of this will depend on his sobriety.  If he is truly taking his recovery seriously, you will see it, and he will abandon the "bondage of self" and make the kid's welfare a top priority.  If he is serious about staying sober, then a lot of good dividends will be evident.  One word of advice: one of the worst things either of you can do is trash each other to the kids.  You can't control what he says, but I'd advise you to resist the temptation to fall into that trap. 

Your divorce will probably be specific about visitation, but if you can't work together then everyone will suffer, including the kids.  Hopefully you'll be able to work it out together.

thanks Bear. As for sobriety, he doesn't have a problem according to him, nor anger issues. So that is going to be a fight, because 9 witnesses say otherwise. But I'm far from backing down on any of this. I understand the courts will have to have some kind of a set in stone agreement, but I have elderly grandparents that are a huge part of my life and when I have an opportunity to get away and see them for a weekend I jump on it. It's only 3 hrs away but I have an on call job so tough to plan. 

I get what you are saying.  I honestly think that the best thing you can do at some point is have a sit down serious talk with him.  The underlying focus needs to be the kids, first and foremost, but the next important thing is to make it clear that you two can decide to work together or continually fight and play tug-of-war and then you'll both be miserable.  Others are stressing out the importance of being tough and getting everything in writing, and yes that's important, but you guys still have to work together and interact.  You can either continue the "War of the Roses" or you can both decide that's senseless.  
In my opinion that serious sit-down talk is key.  Set aside a specific time and let him know that you want to discuss visitation ahead of time.  That gives him a chance to think things through.  That's a good thing.  
He needs to know that even though you are divorced, you still have to be on the same team and the same page where the kids are concerned.

Sitting down and talking will be tough for awhile. He has bond conditions and I have a protection order that is through March 2021. He messed up pretty bad this time. But we can work through the lawyers...it's only money right ????

I had main custody of the children.  However, if the X wanted to change something, as long as I didn't have anything planned, I did it.  We did have a schedule for holidays etc.  Like every even year, they were with me or vise versa.  We changed that too.  If he wanted to get them in the middle of the week for something, as long as their homework was done, they could go.  My X always thought he was hurting me when he had a month during the summer.  It was wonderful having a month off with no responsibilities.  LOL 

Where and when we had problems was my husbands X.  She wouldn't even let him have them on his days.  They had to be picked up by 6.  No one but him etc. etc.  She would even keep them on his holidays.  He would show up and she wouldn't be there or answer the door.  So, if he went back after 6, she callled the law on him for harrassment.  She was and is an evil woman.  When the child eventually married, he married someone just like her. 

I  wasn't that bad.  My kids were more important to me then control.  

Never married and no kids so just throwing out an opinion without much base....here is a question / thought....

Is there anyway to have something in the visitation or divorce judgement that states perameters regarding just the kids and their 4H, school, outside group membership involvement and that it should be continued no matter which parent has them (visitation)?  Like I said I do not know anything about these proceedings, but wondering if asking for something so specific to give the kids a safe and grounding space (normality) that could be agreed upon, for their benefit by both parents.  

I have always thought the parents can argue, but the kids are the ones who pay the price.  Asking for specifics to keep normalacy for the kids should show a true dedication to their needs and futures.  Guessing this would be seen in a good light for both the kids and the parent that brings it forth, for discussion.

That is a good point. I mean if the kiddo had a pre 4H show and wanted to go but it was on "his weekend" that would look bad on his part. And if he had specific family visiting and wanted to have the boys on one of my weekends etc, I would be happy to change the schedule. So far everything he is giving his lawyer that is passed on to me is utter lies and BS. To the point it is almost laughable. Saying his dad will help support them HA. He lives less than 50 yards from us and has had the boys stay over night ONCE! They have only stayed at their house with us not here maybe 10 times IN 12 YEARS. And that was due to out of town appointments and we couldn't make it home before the bus. His dad is an atrocious grandparent...and not a great father since the other 3 kids all moved out in HS and lived with other people. My husband is a replica of his father. So young ladies out their marring that think you can't ride papers, bloodlines are important with horses and men! Joking fellas (well I guess that could go for the ladies too). My try for some humor.

My son's custody agreement with his x is each has my grandson for one week and they switch. The week is supposed to start on a Friday, but she has changed it twice, no lawyer involved. However, he/we have my grandson the majority of the time. I think she has had my grandson 2 times for the whole week. He/we don't care. We want him as much as we can get him. ( my son lives with us for now). Also, so far we have had him both Christmases ( her decision) and they have split Thanksgiving day both times. 
Neither one can take him out of our county or the two adjacent counties without permission from the other. We and she have family in those counties. She wants to move but can't because of that and you can bet my son will fight for that. She has primary custody, my son pays child support and provides insurance for him. One day there is going to be a big custody fight and I have been told to document EVERYTHING, so I have a calendar that I write in everyday and keep track of where my grandson is every day and I also record the shenanigans she pulls on us, but I don't make snide comments or make it personal just in case we need it later. I also am keeping all her texts, texts from her boyfriend's wife, and the odd Facebook posts she makes from time to time. I would for sure document everything you can. 

unfornaturely Divorce becomes a business transaction!  Emotions are super high and then you add to the fact that the other spouse has an addiction.  He going to be really fighting a huge battle if he trying to quit his addiction while going thru a divorce and his stuff that he never dealt with will show a worse ugly head!  If they not rationable before the divorce they not going to be rationable during the divorce!  Not saying that he cant beat his addiction but he will be on a roller coaster ride! 

My ex started going to church where I was going and I almost caved!  My preacher told me that anyone can change for a bit but a true change will last and to give it at least 3 mths.  and he was right almost to the day of 3 mths. the ugly head showed itself and all the stuff came crashing thru!  Im so glad I didnt cave bc it just a vicious circle. 

I know of a friend that believed her ex and he said he would give her money for certain things and lets just save the attorney fees and blah blah blah and she believed him bc she wanted to be civil and not fight when she signed papers and it was finalized he said he doesnt know what she talking about and she got stuck with all the bills and barely making it! while he made out big time! He was the bread maker.   

You can be fair but you have to be hard core.  and you have to put those kids first and you  and you cant feel sorry for him. and maybe this be a wake up call and you all may be friends when this is over but it cant start til its all finalized.

Like I said I dont have kids and didnt have to go thru that part but Ive seen it and I been thru divorces and even without kids its messy!

Praying for you and your kids and everyone involved!

This sit down should be with you, his lawyer, you and your lawyer. You need more people in the rooom than the two of you.  I agree with Bear that a discussion would be good, but please do it with your attorney's setting it up and them in the room.

Yes! they are more apt to be calmer!

I have never been through a divorce but have watched many from the sidelines. My advice to you ...... since you have stated that your husband certainly has alcohol and anger problems, I would ask for the MOST stringent restrictions of visitation ...... until he can PROVE differently. It is always easier to relax restrictions at a later date. Additionally, I agree .... do NOT have any communication with him without your lawyer present. Without lawyers it will end up being a "he said ...she said" scenario and have everything IN WRITING!

Each state is different in their legal terminology and laws. I am from Wisconsin so keep that in mind. Custody is decision making, such as schools, medical decisions, religion, etc. Most of the time the court is going to grant joint custody. Once in while, they will grant sole custody. In those cases, the court will find that it is the best interest of the child to grant sole custody, such as a party is incarcerated, lives a long distance from child or is not cooperate in making decisions with the other parent.

Placement is where the child stays. The court usually wants the parents to work this out between them and not get the courts involved with the hopes that the parties can recognize what is best for their child. Many times, they will use the following language: The mother will have primary placement with the father having placement as agreed upon my the parties. Should the parties be unable to agree upon the issues of custody or placement, either pary may request resolution of the matter through the Family Court Commissioner for (state the County you live in) who shall, in turn, refer the matter to mediation. I am not sure if this language is appropriate in the state that you live in.

If you cannot agree to placement in your divorce, the Court will appoint a Guardian ad Litem. You will need to pay a deposit for the GAL. The GAL represents the child. The GAL will meet with the parents, the child, school, counselor, etc and file their report with the court. The court will then make a ruling as to placement. You and your husband, as the parents, if at possible, should work this out between you as you know what is best for your child. However, if you cannot, the Court will then decide and you may not be happy with that decision. Also, it can become a long and expensive process if an agreement cannot be reached. Both parties need to work together. This may or not be your case. 

Hopefully you have an attorney that is good in family law. Discuss your options with him/ her. I wish you luck. Alcoholism is terrible. 

If both parties are mature enough and there aren't other circumstances that may prevent it, both can agree to the cort ordered "standard" for custody and simply make arrangements as needed so that it works for both parties.  Just need to be aware that if one parent likes to play the petty game, that can cause many issues later on down the road.

This.   It's far easier to set higher restrictions so you have legal boundaries to back up to if every need be. In actual day to day, you and your ex can adjust things as to what works and you can mutually agree.  I have joint legal custody and primary physical custody of my three children and this is how I set it up.  If things adjust here or there along the way, we just work together on it and so far have only had one issue that I raged on him for.  And when he isn't cooperative or staying sober, well, he's just ruining his own image to the kids. 

When I got divorced from my first husband, we had 2 small kids.. jacob was only 3 months old. We had a horrible and I mean UGLY HORRIBLE  divorce... I got primary custody of the kids and it's my right to chose where they live, go to school,  drs etc etc.... we did the every other weekend thing and 1 day a week for the longest time.... we loathed each other and fought ugly forever it seemed. After 5 years we finally pulled our heads out of you know where and have made our best efforts to co parent these kids. We get along better now than when we were married... so good in fact, my son with my now husband,  stays the night over at his place occasionally with Jacob and hes coaching both boys in baseball.  If you would have told me this is where we would be 5 years ago, I would have laughed in your face and told you no freakin way.... we no longer use the schedule set by the court ... kids just come and go whenever and it's way less stressful on them and us. We all get along great.. it takes time to get over the bitterness and hurt. Hang in there.. it will work out and what's best for the kids is seeing the adults act like adults.... 

I hope we eventually get to this point 

I would want a schedule and restrictions (you said supervised visits) in writing from the start.  It is a lot easier to make some verbal adjustments later when some of the dust has settled.  As far as a 'as wanted' schedule, that would wreak havoc on any planning or scheduling.  When the kids were younger, I knew which weekends I could take them to a barrel race, horseshow, or rodeo without having to jump through hoops and getting the X's 'permission'.  I knew when I could sign them up for dance lessons, softball, etc.  As they got older, they started telling him when they were going.  Even after 17 years (we separated when I was preg) I got reamed for a youth rodeo finals that was 'on his time' that he didn't know anything about.  He had the year-long schedule pinned to his kitchen wall!

If you are concerned at all about his ability to 'parent', I would want the strictest custodial agreement you can hammer out right now.  You can always be more generous if you want but should you not trust the situation, you have legal support.

This is my plan, very strict arrangement at first.