I'll try to make this short and sweet - I sent a home grown colt off to a colt starter fall of his 2 year old year, got him back and he knew very little. Sent him off again the next fall after sitting for the year to a cowhorse trainer who did a pretty good job with him - little humpy with them but nothing bad. Got him back and took him to Arizona with me, rode him lightly but he never did anything super stupid - just seemed a little ****y when pushed harder, at this point had only had a solid 60 days so I chalked it up to being young. Sent him to get started on barrels and heard very little from the trainer (that came highly recommended and is pretty well known in our area) for the 3 months he was there. Contacted her multiple times and finally got a call back to tell me he had been bucking the last month when she went to push him faster on the pattern. Great. Brought him home immediately and he was insanely body sore, about 200lbs underweight (after 3 weeks off at her house too as she hadn't been riding him, he's normally a very large colt) and his mane and tail were matted as all get out. Let him sit and recover, xrayed every portion of his body that we could (he was clean), then got on to see what he would do. Rode him once and he was fine, second time I got on he launched me. Sent him off again to someone who's a hand and I know personally. He did a good job but the colt is basically a full on bronc now every once in awhile. I had him vet checked and he was sore through his SI. We injected hocks and SI and hoping that will fix the issue. 

My dilemma is I want to give this colt the best shot, bascially seeking any advice. I can't sell him as is, he'll end up on the meat truck or hurting somebody. He's insanely sweet on the ground. I know "there are plenty others out there" but we raised this colt and it's my responsibility to get him fixed. What's your go to SI saviors? Planned on PEMF, a BOT sheet, lots of backing (in time) to strengthen his high end. Anything I'm missing? He deserves a good shot. 

Editing to add: I'm not really looking for advice on where I can send him. He's only 5, the bucking like this started in the last 8 months and he was only rode for 3 of those 8 months. I really believe there's hope for him, he was riding nice prior. I'm sure something happened that we don't know about, mainly just want advice on how to keep this SI injection holding so he can recover to his fullest.

there is a reason he sore in SI.  But you dont know what he has been happening to him at the different trainers.  Like did he fall, or did they do anything extreme? or just playing in pasture and hurt himself.  It could be anything! Could be something as simple as his feet. 

Im sorry you going thru this!  We try to do right and this is what happens! 

Maybe he just needs a good massage or bodywork bc he was not taken care of right. 

Start writing things down!  It will help in the long run and save time later.  Like what you have done as far as xrays, his feed program, and where he sore and all the changes or what you do.  And if you see improvement be sure to write that down or if no improvement.  and so forth. 

Try to stay basic! and pick a really good team and not jump from one person (vet)(shoer) to another unless they can no longer help you or they say they dont know.  give them a chance to help you eliminate or figure out the deal!  When you go to different people you will get soo many different opinions! you gotta listen to your gut too!!! and what makes sense!

Good Luck! Praying for ya and horse!

I heard a similar story about another colt once. Very similar. They did everything they could with vet work etc. just like you have done. In the end they determined he was just a bucker! Good on you for trying. And yea who knows if something happened and he fell or tweaked something etc. my amazing and very well known lameness vet told me years ago that with any injury case or mental case all you can do is turn them out for a year. 99 percent of injuries etc will heal in a year on their own and if they don't , what you got is what you got. It may very well be that he is just a bronc at heart. In that case like you said he would be dangerous to others so you have to decide what to do 

Just because they X-ray clean doesn't mean they aren't hurting. Lots of people with painful joints X-ray clean and people who don't hurt have horrendous xrays. Besides xrays only show bone changes. There is a lot that could be causing the pain. He could also just be a horse that doesn't want to be rode, but loves to be messed with on the ground. More and more people are choosing to just work on the ground with their horses - trick, liberty, agility training. Maybe you could find one of those kind of people. 

I have heard that too bout a year off!  I think sometimes we hurry healing times along too fast!

I am well aware that just because he xrays clean, it doesnt mean much. More so putting that in there in case KS got mentioned. I should note my mom is a vet and looked him over. We had no reason to believe he was hurting. When he bucked me off he was loping a nice pretty circle and I asked him to move over as he was drifting towards the gate. He launched and dumped me immediately. No tail swish, no pinned ears, just full on bronc mode. 

He's been turned out most of his life minus the few times he was ridden by trainers and the 45 days in AZ with me. He's almost 5 now so I feel as if he did have something that needed time to heal, he would have gotten that in the copious amounts he's had off. Not to say he doesn't need that now after his injection though. 

Thank you! I will definitely start writing everything down. I have thousands into this colt and would hate to put him down because he started bucking in the last 8 months but I'm not one to dump a horse either. 

I'm following this thread as I am having the same problem with a gelding.  I've raised him from a weanling, super sweet and was riding pretty well this summer when he up and decides to dump me.  He can get with the program when it comes to bucking.  The last time he got me off was pretty bad.  I've noticed he has a couple of bumps on his spine, he had those when he came back from the trainer the first time.  He is just a 2 year old so it could be other variables.  Just like yours, we were loping along nice and easy when he cut loose with no warning.  I am having him vetted today to see if there is anything going on with those bumps on his spine or if there is something else.  I really don't to give up on this colt.  I've put a lot of time in on him.....and money.  I won't pass him along if he continues to buck, he's a big 2 year old and powerful.   I hope you find answers!

I hope you do as well! I have no idea what happend when he went to the barrel trainer - I'm assuming whatever it was, wasn't pretty. The vet could see inflammation in the ultrasound as she guided the needle in. Previously he was kind of "twisting" his hind legs when he would walk a straight line - presumably to take the torque off of his hind. I watched him walk straight towards me and place each foot straight in front of the other with no twist yesterday so I'm double a triple crossing my fingers that it works. 

I think a lot of these horses are pushed into training way too early in their lives. 

They were not ready physically or mentally. 

My two year was not pushed at all.  He's had about 60+ rides on him is all.  Just basic's, walk, trot, lope, yielding to leg pressure and so on. Just the basic stuff.  I learned today his bucking issue is due to spinous impingement in the T14-15, T15-16.  The prognosis isn't good, so at this point he'll be a pasture buddy. I could go the surgery, injection route but that's not a permanent fix and will continue to deteriorate.  I would not consider selling him because this boy can buck and will hurt someone.  Other than that he's a sweetheart on the ground.  What a heartbreak, he's big and beautiful, nice breeding and I've put a ton of time in with him.  

My mare has 4 spaces touching, and 3 of the affected vertebrae have fractured at one point or the other (T13,T14,T16) , and she rides just fine after injecting it. KS is a lot more common than most people think, finding an average of 35-40% of equines having it to some degree. I would find a vet better experienced with it and get their opinion, most return to normal function with therapy or surgery. I have one by Chicago that specializes in it. Yes there will be "maintenance" for the rest of their useful lives, but its fairly easy to maintain and prevent from progressing. You just have to be willing to do the work. And at 2 years old, yours is still going to grow and that can change things on its own 

If you didn't xray his back for Kissing Spine, I would. You can do it in three xrays. 
horses sore in the SI usually haveinf something below causing the soreness , SI soreness is from compensation . Sore stifles will do both, make them sore in the SI and a lot of them will buck, especially going into a barrel at speed. I know you xrayed him but I'd take a real close look at the stifle xrays. If he has a flattened off chondyle, that's most likely your problem and injecting it will help. 

I can assure you with 120% certainty he has not been pushed in the least. In fact, I felt as though that was the issue with his bucking before is that he HADNT been pushed and had been babied too much. This horse is 5. He has had a total of 180 days riding. 

To give you a timeline:

The girl who started him at 2.5 rode him maybe 15 times. The rest was groundwork. 

He was not ridden again until 3.5 with the cowhorse trainer for 60 days. 

I rode him for 45 days lightly after the trainer. 

He was ridden for 60 days of his 4 year old year at the barrel trainer. 

He has not been pushed too early. Quite the opposite. 

Thank you Liana, always appreciate your insight. We did xray his spine as I suspected it also - tons of room and no touching vertebrae. We tried xraying stifles but the machine is pretty old so not super clear. (My moms a vet so we were able to borrow the machine and got tons of views, I think we took 60 xrays just of him). I will double check his stifle xrays but I dont recall seeing anything abnormal. The performance vet didn't seem to think his stifles were bothering him but will definitely keep it in mind. I have another mare I need to do stifles on anyway so might as well do them both. It's just money right?

ETA: The vet did see a pocket of fluid on the ultrasound when she went to inject. It was a bubble of sorts - you could see when she poked the needle in that it sort of "popped" into it and even under sedation he was cranky about being poked there when he was fine on the other side. She believed it to be inflammation due to possibly an old injury. Whether it happend in training or running around like an idiot in the pasture (I've seen him take a few diggers) I can't say but hoping that's what's causing it. 

Hips. Something deep in the hips. I'm thinking now. I'll post when I remember more.

Whirlbone?

Please post an update!  question does he stand with one leg out behind him all time or most time?  or is he squared up most times?  and when he pees does he pee with everything lined up or does he pee with one heel up or legs not squared up?

No suggestions just wondering how he stands.

Maybe check his hocks too? We are pretty sure my horse's SI pain is secondary to his hocks. Believe it or not but the x-ray showed his stifle to be in great shape. I am on a different route waiting for his hocks to fuse so I will know for sure later on...but for now I put poultice on the SI as well and use a magnetic sheet. 

I honestly don't pay *that* much attention to him as he's in a 40 acre pasture and only comes up for feed. I'll try to pay more attention but from what I've noticed, no. He's pretty square. 

His hocks xrayed clean and he flexed clean on them but we already injected with his SI like I said in the post. 

I have the xrays that shows the vertabra's almost touching.  I was told he has about a 50/50 chance of the surgery working and he'd need injections as well.  I'm so at a loss and sad. 

Have you checked into PSSM?  Possibly PSSM1, but more likely PSSM2 variant.  A good riding horse can turn into a major bronc when they become symptomatic.  And not all have the same symptoms.  For the naysayers, Univ of MN is doing a major research study now on horses with symptoms (it's free to put your horse in), whether they've had any kind of diagnosis or not.  Once their whole study is done, it will turn many people inside out after denying it's existence.  Smart people are starting to get their stock "cleaned up" now so they are ahead of the game.  Something for you to consider/look in to.

I know this is probably an overrun thing, but especially when you said he came back 200lbs thin. I had one that was nice as a 2yr old, sent off to be broke then a nut job. Not buck but suddenly bolted. Xrayed everything and couldnt really find much. It was epm. He was seeing things we think and bolted. 

I'm well versed in PSSM and he has no suspects in his lineage and both sire and dam are 5 panel negative. I know there's more variants than that, but like I said, he has no suspects in his lineage. We also have 3 other colts that are out of this mare and have no issues. Thanks though. 

I would think this is a possibility too, but as soon as he was back at my place he gained weight like no other. I don't feed him anything special, literally just turned him out to pasture. 

Bottom photo is a week after he came back, he'd probably already gained 75lbs. Top photo is the next week after out to pasture at my house. Now I don't expect a horse in work to come back looking like a fat hog - but I do expect him after 3 weeks off to come home in decent shape and certainly no poverty lines like he was showing. His hair was matted as all get out (I don't normally touch this horses mane and tail, I'm not one for a whole ton of grooming) and in the year and a half he's been at my house he's NEVER had issues with his mane matting. 

Top photo is what he looked like after coming back from the cowhorse trainer and me riding for 45 days. He also looked like this coming back from his most recent trainer. Bottom photo is again, a week after I got him back from the barrel trainer after she hadn't worked him for 3 weeks. 

This is what he looks like currently. Just don't think he's an EPM horse but if it continues I'll look into it. 

IPersonally I think he looks like a EPM horse.  His hip is the main sign.  It drops off.  No muscle.  I would treat.  It won’t hurt.  Deanna Harrison’s Stabilize works and it’s very affordable.  

Did your vet suggest injections and rehab to build up his topline?  There is a lot of success stories with doing this.  

She did say we could do surgery along with injections and a rigorous exercise program but there were no guarantees he would stay pain free.  She suggested a vet in Texas if I chose to go that route.  The last time he bucked me off was enough for me, it was pretty bad.  I feel bad for him because I was pretty hard on him and rode him for another 45 minutes hard.  He bucked because he hurt.  Other than that he's in your pocket kind of horse.  I'm at the stage of my life, I don't need to hit the ground like this anymore.  He's such a nice horse.

Gorgeous. You're in Iowa? Kendall Road by Chicago specializes in KS, like its **** near the only thing Dr. Vacek does. And they're super affordable. I only go to them or Wisconsin Equine for my horses. And if my horse with touching vertebrae plus a few of them also being fractured, got a solid 100% recovery diagnosis, I don't see hows yours wouldn't do fine as well. I'm not doing surgery on mine yet, but she does just fine with the injections and they're not expensive to do at all 

The only picture he's been truly "worked" in is the one where he's fuzzy. I guess I dont see it. He has his sires hip which he actually exceeds. Can you pinpoint exactly what you're saying? 

Bumping this up because I'm curious about your reply

How are things going with your horse now? I have a very simular story with my 4 year old. Last spring he started coming up sore, in his lumbar and SI. Pulled blood for Lymes, tried two weeks of robaxin and bute,  then x rays for KS, PSSM, HYPP testing, Chiro, Magna Wave, Massage, saddle fitted and evaluated (he exhibits the symptoms in both an engish and western saddle both with a rider and lunging) then settled on injecting his SI when we didn't get any results. Unfortunately, that didn't help either. We have looked at everything, he is fit as a fiddle (not lame in the slightest anywhere). So gave him another month off, would palpate before each ride and he seemed good. However, when you would get on him for the first 10 to 15 minutes he would feel super tight (even after hand walking him for 10 minutes and slowly tightening his cinch a little at a time), almost like riding a watermelon with a hump in his back) once we started trotting he would work out of it. So, I took him to a couple of exhibitions and he would buck when pushed to go a little faster than a slow lope. He would come unglued... Sent him to a trainer for about 40 days as vet thought this might just be bad behavior, trainer sent him back after he started palpating sore again and still bucking when pressed. Second vet came out and he palpated sore again over his lower lumbar, decided at this point to either do a bone scan or give him 6 months off. Vet actually recommended the 6 months off and said that I spent enough on vet bills trying to figure this out (and at this point some time is only costing me the feed I am putting into him, LOL) Just wanted to say I commiserate with you! If anyone has suggestions please send them my way. The plan is to restart him in late April, fingers crossed this does the trick! This horse is super talented, I would hate for him to have to be a lawn orniment for this useful life... Picture of my guy in question below...

Since you mentioned PEMF, I wanted to let you know that it worked for my SI horse.  I had been getting injections for him for a couple years.  All of a sudden, the injection didn't work.  What to do.  Tried PEMF treatments, he's only had probably less than 10 in three years, but so far, it has worked for him.  Hasn't been injected in three years.  He was never a bucker, tho.

Thanks! I forgot to mention that a girl at the barn Just purchased a BEMER blanket. So, before wo brought him back we were going to start introducing this as part of his routine as well.