no problem

I really wasn't being judgemental!!!! Just surprised.

Yes the clear fluid is normal.

ALso you have to remember I am a chick that just doesn't like to inject..... especially without xrays.

I would find me another opinion.

Sounds like it could be chiropractic or muscle.

I would start there or get some xrays

Good point!!!!

I don't have much in the way practical knowledge to offer, but a second opinion is never a bad thing--if you don't agree with the second opinion, that's fine, but at least you have additional input to weigh on any decision. 

I would have to wonder what caused the stress on those joints to require injections at that age--is this a horse you plan to futurity that has maybe been stressed physically more than most of their peers?  Or maybe there's something with saddle, other musculoskeletal issues contributing?

There was also another recent post about sore back and possible shoeing issues somewhere on here--some good advice there, too.

Originally written by ngapeach on 2004-04-12 2:56 PM

i have no idea what he injected him with... i never really thought to ask.. stupid...... and i have wormed him but when i got him in the summer he was really wormy. i have wormed him on a regular basis since then but he still isnt shedding out like i think he should.. maybe he needs wormed again but i didnt want to over do that because of toxins.. maybe i should try the herbal wormer?

I know that the DE from TLC really has made mine shed out faster and look better

I would make sure that he isn't fusing.....

I would opt for a set of xrays so you know exactly where you are at.

not always....

Then can start early.... so I would opt for the xrays and then you know

and if he is fusing then you know what you are dealing with.

I could be very wrong--course there's always that probability--BUT...

I thought the whole premise of injecting hocks was based around their fusing.  Horses do so at different ages, based off their individual composition, conformation, and work history/usage/stresses.  X-rays or scopes are the primary ways to see if hocks are fusing--though certain behaviors might or might not be additional indicators.  Given this, the idea of injections is to provide a pain free environment in the joint to allow the horse to continue working--rubbing joints against eachother--and facilitate (and possibly speed) the fusion process.  Usually injections are no longer required after the fusion process is complete.

There is a fair amount of debate (just google for the topic of hock injection) on whether or not injecting is the right answer or not, is more harmful or helpful.  Your interpretation of that information is an individual thing to be discussed with your vet.

 ngapeach, my point exactly.... why do i know, i have been in your shoes..... my horse would not go right....... took him to the vet... dry right hock.... watery fluid on the left hock..... injected..... then i took him to the chiro he was out both sides neck, shoulders, hips... he was in pain...... got him put back in,  he rode like a completely different horse..... guess what i can now get him around the right barrel and he is staying inline.... I just got off of him until i got him fixed...... I want him for the long haul... this is the 2nd one that i have had to start from stratch (sp?). he is 6, and he trys his heart for me... a little broncy but i love him..... was at the vet this weekend in fact for the spring checkup, his hocks are ok, and i have him on fluid action from finish line.... plus i long trot him a lot......if i have to miss some barrel races so what...... he comes first... I'm old (lol) and I don't have time to to keep starting new horses......sometimes i think everyone gets in a hurry to make them..... they may not be ready nor their body..... sorry didn't mean to write a book.... My horse comes first, and his well being........not how many barrel races can I go to...... I hope this makes you feel better......

Well this is probably the last thing you want to hear but I would turn him out.

You mentioned that he is uneven, I would let him catch up with himself. Injecting a 4 year old  just makes me nervous.

I know with my young ones before I step them up in their training I xray hocks and knee's. Want to make sure things are closed and have no problems brewing in the hocks. I see so many young horses that simply need a little more time to grow and all would be fine.

 Guess that's why I'm know for the longevity of my equines and my short comings is not being able to have a top gun at the age of 4. Someday maybe but it's always up to the horse to say he can handle it and we can continue to go on.

Good Luck.

That is me to a T!!!! I just don't like getting in a hurry with them!!! LOL Guess that is why I am not a good Futurity trainer...

Originally written by fatchance on 2004-04-12 4:28 PM

Well this is probably the last thing you want to hear but I would turn him out.

Good Luck.

Another sound idea...get it, sound???  Sorry, Monday, bad joke...

I thought the whole premise of injecting hocks was based around their fusing.  Horses do so at different ages, based off their individual composition, conformation, and work history/usage/stresses.  X-rays or scopes are the primary ways to see if hocks are fusing--though certain behaviors might or might not be additional indicators.  Given this, the idea of injections is to provide a pain free environment in the joint to allow the horse to continue working--rubbing joints against eachother--and facilitate (and possibly speed) the fusion process.  Usually injections are no longer required after the fusion process is complete.

There is a fair amount of debate (just google for the topic of hock injection) on whether or not injecting is the right answer or not, is more harmful or helpful.  Your interpretation of that information is an individual thing to be discussed with your vet.

You want the fluid in between the joint to cushion.... As my vet put it this weekend, once they are fused, there is no hope(yes, it is bone rubbing against bone, not a good thing.)(like the fluid between your vertabrae, you want that).... I have my sons' older horse that we are possibly looking at that situtation.  due to age, and usage, he was a steer ropin' horse...the injections are to keep the fluid in between their joints, so it doesn't cause pain.....(if i misundersood you I apologize, but i have been down this road a time or 2......) I don't like to inject, unless you absoutely have too... even at that, my vet has warned us it may take, or it may last 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months... you don't know it is how the horses body reacts too it.....

I have a 17 year old now that has good and bad days we know he is finishing fusing on his right hock.(he was slow in all that he did except roping LOL) We bute him to help him. I of course have him on joint supplement but your only going to do so much to slow down what is going to happen to all equines. IMO.

Originally written by roan critter on 2004-04-12 1:34 PM

Originally written by fatchance on 2004-04-12 4:28 PM

Well this is probably the last thing you want to hear but I would turn him out.

Good Luck.

Another sound idea...get it, sound???  Sorry, Monday, bad joke...

That was a great joke!!!! I got it.  Have you been hanging around me too much?

I also have to agree, I'm a big fan of riding the colts and then turning them out for some TLC.  Let their body and mind have a vacation.  Remember their still babies they like to have Recess too!

I actually have been lurking on this subject,,he he he  I posted yesterday about my horse having a sore back all the time, this started from what I know last year, he had been off for pretty much 2 yrs, so his back or any soreness for that matter was the furthest thing from my mind, well, after numerous chiro adjustments new saddles which are wonderful, and the winter off, I figured I would have a good as new horse,,,,,,not, he is sore on his back again, and I have noticed a change in the way he does a couple of things, I have only rode him a handful of times, and all I did was walk, and trot him in straight lines!  Anyway, to shorten my story, I am going to the vet this afternoon at 3:30, and having him get the once over, the vet that did the chiro work to him last year, I called, but am going to the local vet this time, for a second opinion.  The other vet could adjust him, and such, but won't inject hocks,,,,hes getting to old he tells me, but I thought I would give this one a try, my friend used him and had great results.  I will post back and let you know, but this whole fusing thing is new to me too,,,I know nothing about it.

Thanks for listening

My horse tested sore in her back last year and I spoke to someone that told me to detox her for 30 days.  It worked in my case.  She said the liver and kidneys get toxic build up from the wormers and such.

I'd also wonder about the way the horse is being shod.  That will sometimes contribute to the problem.

Debi

There are detox products on the market for horse's.  I'll bet someone on here has a link to a website for you to find some.  The product I use is from Dynamite.

Also, if your horse has trouble turning in one direction you might want a chiro to check as others have posted.  Did the horse get injured that you know of?

Originally written by ngapeach on 2004-04-13 2:02 PM

he has shoes on the front but none on the back .. i notice that when i was leading him yesterday afternoon that when  turned him to the right he could plant the inside hock and turn with me good but the other way he had a hard time getting around.. that hock or something from that side is giving him trouble.

Sounds chiropractic

OK - I have to add my opinion here...  If I were you here is what I would do... (take it for what it's worth)  Find a GOOD equine accupuncturist and let them go over your horse.  I am a firm believer that the POINTS DON'T LIE.  Last summer, my accupuncturist was working on my horse.  Her right front foot points were showing.  She insisted that I have x-rays done - they were CLEAN!!  About 6 weeks later, my mare ABCESSED - BIG TIME in her right front foot!!!  It will save you the stress and time of GUESSING and eliminating problems one by one.

Good luck! 

When was the last time this horse was Beaned? or had his sheath cleaned for that matter? Also Check his teeth with a GOOD Equine Dentist, Both of these things can show up in the back as Hocks, or Stifels. I would try not to be so quick to inject, and I would question this Vet? Did he have some extra bills that needed payed. I never inject unless I have  X-rays. How are his teeth way in the back?

If he is shod .you may need to pull them off. A too tight shoe can cause a whole lot of problems, from head to toe kind of problems. You can give a body bath of green alcohol, apple cider vinegar, witch hazel ,absorbing 1/4 cup in a bucket of warm . Sponge over entire body scrape off and turn loose in a safe corral or stall as the tingling will make him want to run and buck.you don't want to be any where near.

Depending on what meds were used, it's going to take 5-7 days for the meds to work, straight Depo takes 7-10 days. If the vet just did the lower joint (TMT) most likely the middle joint (DIT) is still sore. 
usually you see more back soreness with stifle and stifle growth plate problems, not so much hock soreness. With his age and the way you describe him the back soreness is probably coming from the stifle areA.

Wow this is the oldest thread I have seen bumped up.. 

Depending on the meds used, it can take a week or so for them to kick in. If your bet just injected the lower joint (TMT) and not the middle joint (DIT) (which is usually more sore) you may need to have that done. 

If he is sore in the lumbar area , that's most likely stifles , Not hocks. Given his age and being butt high, he could have a growth plate issue . There's a growth plate on the tibial crest, near the stifle joint,  than can get epiphysitis in it and become really sore. 

Depending on the meds used, it can take a week or so for them to kick in. If your bet just injected the lower joint (TMT) and not the middle joint (DIT) (which is usually more sore) you may need to have that done. 

If he is sore in the lumbar area , that's most likely stifles , Not hocks. Given his age and being butt high, he could have a growth plate issue . There's a growth plate on the tibial crest, near the stifle joint,  than can get epiphysitis in it and become really sore. 

clear or straw colored fluid is normal , but it should be thick,

not watery. Watery, thin fluid means there's active inflammation. 

We

I always do chiro first (and stay UTD on chiro appts & osteopathy if they need it) and i always xray if I am considering injecting.

I wouldn't assume your horse has fusing hocks if both hocks are sore....i have never had a horse who has both hocks fusing at the same time.  

Are the back feet at the proper angle for your horse's conformation???  If not, you will have sore hocks.....

My vet says it takes 10 days to see maximum "comfort" with injections.

Injections do not fix all pain/problems....it just depends on what is going on.

If he's still sore over the back and he isn't shedding I question if his gut is healthy? I've had them get sore in their back because of ulcers, might be something to look in to. 

I'd also pull some rads on those hocks, as well as ultrasound the soft tissue in the stifles. Did he inject just the lowers or did he do the uppers too? At that age I probably wouldn't have just gone in without knowing what's going on in there. And at some point you need a baseline to go off of anyway. I have my horses xrayed yearly to track any changes.  I'd also be curious to know what he injected with. Depo is pretty common.

All of thee above can make them sore over their backs. I had one so bad, after a round of injections, I had to give him Robaxin to help those muscles relax. Haven't had to do it since, but I keep up on his injections. When he needs them he gets them.

If he's still sore over the back and he isn't shedding I question if his gut is healthy? I've had them get sore in their back because of ulcers, might be something to look in to. 

I'd also pull some rads on those hocks, as well as ultrasound the soft tissue in the stifles. Did he inject just the lowers or did he do the uppers too? At that age I probably wouldn't have just gone in without knowing what's going on in there. And at some point you need a baseline to go off of anyway. I have my horses xrayed yearly to track any changes.  I'd also be curious to know what he injected with. Depo is pretty common.

All of thee above can make them sore over their backs. I had one so bad, after a round of injections, I had to give him Robaxin to help those muscles relax. Haven't had to do it since, but I keep up on his injections. When he needs them he gets them.

I would say he is probably going through a growth spurt. Maybe since you aren't going to futurity him, Kick him out for a few months and let him do some growing and then maybe start riding again this summer, then kick him out again in late fall for the winter. 

I would say he is probably going through a growth spurt. Maybe since you aren't going to futurity him, Kick him out for a few months and let him do some growing and then maybe start riding again this summer, then kick him out again in late fall for the winter. 

It sounds like he is going through a growth spurt. I would say since you aren't going to futurity him, kick him out for a few months, bring him back in for the summer and fall, then kick back out for the winter. 

Whenever I have had my horses injected especially in the hocks my vets have always given me a weeks worth of muscle relaxers assuming that back pain is there due to the way they are carrying their sore body. 

do you have a good chiropractor???  They usually help a lot with back soreness.  Could be kidneys, could be kissing spine.  I would start by having him adjusted.