|
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 561
 
Location: somewhere in the south | What's in hay that gives horses diarhea? I have a semi older gelding that gets really loose stools from any kind of any it seems? Can I add something to it to stop this? Or maybe a supplement that would help? |
|
| |
|
  Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
 
| Why do you think it's the hay? Are there times, like when he's on pasture, that his stools aren't loose? |
|
| |
|
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Lots of factors here. What plant species are you feeding? When was it produced? Did you just switch hay type? |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 561
Location: somewhere in the south | His stools are fine out on pasture but when I stall in the winter, ANY hay makes his stools loose. I've fed several different types of grass hay, some richer than others and even hayed my own pastures and had similar results. Someone told me that they thought some element of the hay can give horses loose stools. |
|
| |
|
 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Test him for allergies. My buddy has a kids horse that has an allergy list a mile long |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1898
| Maybe try hitting him with a few rounds of probiotics. My husband had a colt that would do this during the winter. I gave him Probios brand paste twice a day for 4 days and it all cleared up. |
|
| |
|
Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I was thinking probiotics as well. He probably doesn't have the right bugs in his belly to make the switch from pasture to hay, especially if the hay is more nutritious than your pasture grasses. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 561
Location: somewhere in the south | Thanks guys, I'll give them a try!
 |
|
| |
|
Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| turn3nhome - 2013-12-12 12:48 PM His stools are fine out on pasture but when I stall in the winter, ANY hay makes his stools loose. I've fed several different types of grass hay, some richer than others and even hayed my own pastures and had similar results. Someone told me that they thought some element of the hay can give horses loose stools.
I agree with trying probiotics. Do you think the putting him up in a stall may make him ulcer prone? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | We fight this all the time. The problem is with cool season grasses as they accumulate a lot of a storage form of carbohydrate called fructans. Fructans are fructose sugar units joined together like glucose making starch. There can be glucose side unitis. Various grasses make different variations on the chain . The grasses make the compound along with regular sugars by photosynthesis. The grass stores them in the leaves and the stems.
The garss may store over 35% as these sugars and levels can be 15% in the am and double by late in the day.
The horse has a problem because they actually cannot secrete the enzyme to digest this compound. Only the bateria in the gut can do that. The problem is while horse can deal with moderate amounts eaten during the day, a soft hay high in fructans can overwhelm the sytem and promote the growth of acid producing bacteria and then you get a hand grenade thrown into the hind gut.
It gets worse. The bateria that like fructans can also now grow in the small intestine and even the stomach so how about pasture colic on rich grass and ulcers and just local acidosis. Some experts claim the bacteria can digest the fructan and the fructose gets absorbed and like our kids on high frucrose sweeteners now we have fructose in the cells lining the gut and the liver and kidney and this is metabolised differently than glucose producing insulin resistance and damaging the lining of the gut not just from local acidosis but changing cell metabolism and causing a leaky gut in the small and hind gut. Also the fructose does not limit appetite like glucose so like our kids horses just eat get loose, obese and ir and founder.
So high insulin alone can cause laminitis and we see it a lot.
The diarrhea cannot be stopped unless you drop the sugar level /fructan level using a lower sugar hay or soaking the hay for an hour or two. Then squish out the water which will look like coca cola and feed the hay that remains as it now has low sugars . It does not always work but usually works for us. Not great if it is freezing so we just buy a local crunchy mature hay if we cannot soak. We do a lot of hay analysis where we are to get a handle on this problem.
Laminitis can easily happen on these hays.
NOt all grass hays release the sugars. Fructans are water soluble and part of a hay analysis component called water soluble carbs (WSC's) which includes the dreaded fructans and the true sugars like glcuose and sucrose. We add the WSC's and starch and call it non structural carbohydrates and try for less than 10-12% for horses to cool out fermentation and prevent or control laminitis. TRy an get it down to 10-12% for a horse like yours and use equi-analytical in ny if you need to check it out
The grass is a living dynamic creature. It puts more fructans in if it is stressed by drought . It will add more if it suspects cold as the fructan is a natural anti freeze. Grazing horses on growing grass is not ideal as the grass puts even more fructans in the crown for storage. Ever notice horses like to graze the low short grass? They are not stupid and know exactly where the candy is.
Spring and fall are very dangerous for us because the grass makes sugars all day if sunny but if the temp drops down below 5 C at night ( about 42 F) the machinery or chemistry of the grass stops at night and the sugars made during the day just sit there. So you think you will just turn out in the am because sugar levels are lower but no not always. Sugar content also goes up at high elevations as the light is more intense but the nights are cold so you can screw up a horse on those pastures as well.
also, make sure the grass is fed by nitrogen etc as fertilizer lowers sugar levels. The grass can grow better and us these stored sugars only if it has the other stuff like nitrogen and phos etc it needs for growth. However, grass volume goes up so now horses can eat more if left out all day and still get fat and founder.
So look for a coarse crunchy hay and just feed 1.5-2.0 % body weight and a supplement without grain until you get things under control. Do not get too crunchy of a high fiber hay as that will bung the horse up with an impaction colic. If you need help I will look at your hay analysis no charge as I deal with this stuff all the time where I am. It is a night mare for us.
We add a thing called bio-moss to treat it but that is treating the symptom not the problem. Help this horse and check the hay or pasture out. You may need a grazing muzzle. Limited turn out may not help as horses simply eat faster and still get into trouble.
We just work on hays and manage around it. It is a gong show up here .
You can get my e-mail from the web master with my permission and we can talk further if you like. I do not wish this on any horse or the owner. It is dangerous as heck!
Good luck,
Coastal Rider
|
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | cyount2009 - 2013-12-12 12:53 PM Maybe try hitting him with a few rounds of probiotics. My husband had a colt that would do this during the winter. I gave him Probios brand paste twice a day for 4 days and it all cleared up.
This^^^ |
|
| |
Folks on-line