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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
 
Location: IL | Interested in hearing what others think about this. I've been told quite a few times and seen other board members recommend that you do roll backs with a horse to teach them to get on their hind end. However, I've seen other members on here & read an article that said you shouldn't teach a barrel horse how to do a roll back because it can cause them to knock barrels?
What is your opinion on this? |
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 Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
   
Location: Around here somewhere... | I don't use rollbacks to teach a horse to use his butt- in my experience a horse either naturally uses his butt or doesn't. I teach rollbacks, etc, for finer cueing. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | IMO teaching a rollback will do nothing to teach one to use their hind end. You need to teach collection, rounding the back & driving from behind. All my horses are taught rollbacks, not the reining horse caliber, but they will drop their hip into a nice stop & snap back over their hocks if I ask for it. I cue for a barrel turn completely different so I don't see it as an issue. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | SaraJean - 2013-12-15 11:58 AM
IMO teaching a rollback will do nothing to teach one to use their hind end. You need to teach collection, rounding the back & driving from behind. All my horses are taught rollbacks, not the reining horse caliber, but they will drop their hip into a nice stop & snap back over their hocks if I ask for it. I cue for a barrel turn completely different so I don't see it as an issue.
That has been my opinion too. Ive always taught a rollback to get more refined reactions. I also cue differently for a roll back vs barrel turn which is why I was curious that some believed it would cause problems. |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | I've never had a horse that was too broke or too responsive to properly turn barrels :) |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | hummmm I can't believe you only got 2 responses with all the trainers on here this morning on your other thread... Im refraining from any training tips today... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1002
Location: At home | i have always taught my horse rollbacks. The more they learn, the better all around horse they become - just my thinking. My mare, Melissa - WinsorWitch, did rollbacks at her turns. She was a bigger horse, long and she didn't have the "bend" in her. So she would slide in, roll over her hocks and off again. For her, it was effortless and smooth.
i let a friend ride her at a barrel race who wasn't used to her quickness. She did her roll back and came out the same side of the barrel she went in on!! (NO one noticed!!! Can you believe that!? Won money!!) i never had her hit any barrels, unless it was my fault. i think we should give our horses the tools to use their own natural abilities.....and the rollback to her was a gift!
My horses also do sliding stops, run poles, and rope calves. Even have had steers thrown off 'em. Anything to expand their agility and keep them from getting bored. i know i might get 'smoked', but that's my way of thinking.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | winsorwitch - 2013-12-15 12:39 PM i have always taught my horse rollbacks. The more they learn, the better all around horse they become - just my thinking. My mare, Melissa - WinsorWitch, did rollbacks at her turns. She was a bigger horse, long and she didn't have the "bend" in her. So she would slide in, roll over her hocks and off again. For her, it was effortless and smooth.
i let a friend ride her at a barrel race who wasn't used to her quickness. She did her roll back and came out the same side of the barrel she went in on!! (NO one noticed!!! Can you believe that!? Won money!!) i never had her hit any barrels, unless it was my fault. i think we should give our horses the tools to use their own natural abilities.....and the rollback to her was a gift!
My horses also do sliding stops, run poles, and rope calves. Even have had steers thrown off 'em. Anything to expand their agility and keep them from getting bored. i know i might get 'smoked', but that's my way of thinking.
This is a great response! Thank you! I agree with you! Perhaps its not something we usespecifically when running but its useful nonetheless! :) Thank you for youre wonderful answer and that horse of yours sounds awesome! I bet she was a lot of fun to ride!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | Blaundee - 2013-12-15 12:09 PM
I've never had a horse that was too broke or too responsive to properly turn barrels :)
So true! Is it even possible to have one too broke? Lol |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 989
| I didnt teach my guy roll backs at first as I was told not too. Then, I was having problems with him not getting his inside hind leg up underneath him and pushing off on it for the turn. He was using his outside hind to push off of on every turn.
I did some work with roll backs and timing of him pushing off to make sure he used that inside hind every time. He is MUCH better now and I am glad I did them. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | Puddy - 2013-12-15 1:44 PM I didnt teach my guy roll backs at first as I was told not too. Then, I was having problems with him not getting his inside hind leg up underneath him and pushing off on it for the turn. He was using his outside hind to push off of on every turn. I did some work with roll backs and timing of him pushing off to make sure he used that inside hind every time. He is MUCH better now and I am glad I did them.
That does make sense, roll backs would be very good for fixing that! :) So maybe roll backs can be more of a personal preference as far as training goes. Or used only if needed? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 989
| TACKyPaints - 2013-12-15 12:31 PM
Puddy - 2013-12-15 1:44 PM I didnt teach my guy roll backs at first as I was told not too. Then, I was having problems with him not getting his inside hind leg up underneath him and pushing off on it for the turn. He was using his outside hind to push off of on every turn. I did some work with roll backs and timing of him pushing off to make sure he used that inside hind every time. He is MUCH better now and I am glad I did them.
That does make sense, roll backs would be very good for fixing that! :) So maybe roll backs can be more of a personal preference as far as training goes. Or used only if needed?
I found with him, as long as I didnt 'over do it' I didnt have to correct him in his turns after. I also made sure I rode the hind end to control the roll back and hind feet, because if I focused on what the front end was doing too much, I was not accomplishing what I wanted to get out of it and found that affected the turn. Bit of trial and error, but figured it out to have the exercise work for us. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | The last thing I do before I go in the pen with my old stud is do a some rail work at a trot then a lope with a stop and a roll back. For him it reinforces rate and whoa. I can see where it wouldn't work for every horse though. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Either Sherry Cervi or Brittany Pozzi made a short training video doing roll backs against the fence as a reinforcement tool to keep the horse working correctly. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | BMW - 2013-12-15 3:19 PM Either Sherry Cervi or Brittany Pozzi made a short training video doing roll backs against the fence as a reinforcement tool to keep the horse working correctly.
That's right! I do remember that video Sherry did. I liked her method of doing fence work. Love that one and the drill she does with the spin on the backside of the barrel to reinforce a tight exit rather than fading out of the barrel. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | Puddy - 2013-12-15 2:45 PM
TACKyPaints - 2013-12-15 12:31 PM
Puddy - 2013-12-15 1:44 PM I didnt teach my guy roll backs at first as I was told not too. Then, I was having problems with him not getting his inside hind leg up underneath him and pushing off on it for the turn. He was using his outside hind to push off of on every turn. I did some work with roll backs and timing of him pushing off to make sure he used that inside hind every time. He is MUCH better now and I am glad I did them.
That does make sense, roll backs would be very good for fixing that! :) So maybe roll backs can be more of a personal preference as far as training goes. Or used only if needed?
I found with him, as long as I didnt 'over do it' I didnt have to correct him in his turns after. I also made sure I rode the hind end to control the roll back and hind feet, because if I focused on what the front end was doing too much, I was not accomplishing what I wanted to get out of it and found that affected the turn. Bit of trial and error, but figured it out to have the exercise work for us.
Thats a very good thing to point out, to really ride the back end. We can get so focused on what the shoulders are doing that we forget the driving force we should be focusing on. Very good point! :).
I have to be careful training my 5 year old. I have found she takes things very literally. I cant stop her and ask for a step back at our rate point. I found it worked well for my finished mare but my young one kept stopping and backing at her rate point every time. So had to go back and "undo" that. She's a bit of an over achiever. *rolls eyes* |
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Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | TACKyPaints - 2013-12-15 12:02 PM Blaundee - 2013-12-15 12:09 PM I've never had a horse that was too broke or too responsive to properly turn barrels :) So true! Is it even possible to have one too broke? Lol
Not for me!!!! lol |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | Blaundee - 2013-12-15 6:26 PM TACKyPaints - 2013-12-15 12:02 PM Blaundee - 2013-12-15 12:09 PM I've never had a horse that was too broke or too responsive to properly turn barrels :) So true! Is it even possible to have one too broke? Lol
haha! I agree! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 208
| I think roll backs as an excercise help with muscle memory and work those specific muscles to make them stronger.
Here is Sherry Cervi doing them on a colt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N0cIRJs9Jc |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| The spins might help keep that inside leg up under them a little better. Depending on how a horse it taught to rollback they will often want to draw back in the hind end to really power out of one. Look on youtube for the difference between reiners rolling back and really good cowhorses suck back through themselves with enough power and body postion to really come out of a turn. |
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