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 Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | I have a retrain that I'm currently riding ( runaway, barrel hitter when you could get him in the arena) he will go to first in the correct lead. As soon as we go to leave first he changes so he's set up to go to the second in the correct lead ( he used to turn first and immediately try to run out. I wonder if he picked this habit up from being able to set himself up to run out after 1st.) run to second turn as soon as we go to leave he swaps. Run to third changes at rate point turns third changes as we go to leave that barrel runs home. Something I should worry about or not? He never misses a lead turning the barrel should I fuss with making him hold his lead longer (couple strides) then as for a change or leave it be. His leads/flying lead changes are completely on the mark when just riding in the arena. Interested to hear what y'all have to say. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 187
| When I was in college my instructor wanted us to change leads when you came out of the barrel, so that they are set up for the next barrel. I never really worried about it after college! I, personally, don't think it matters, as long as they are switching before the turn. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think the ideal, most efficient place to swap leads is coming off the first, before you get a head of steam. You only need one lead change, and that makes the most sense to me. It pays to really work on making that lead change a habit in a younger horse and getting it solid. Ed wright makes a point of this and talks about reverse arcs coming off the first to get that shoulder out where the lead swap becomes habit. Youngsters sometimes randomly swap a time or two in between barrels, and I think a lot of that is a combination of nervousness and lack of confidence. That goes away in time as they learn fairly quickly. I wouldn't fret too much about that. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I think the only reason I'd be concerned is if the horse is changing the leads without finishing the turn. At the first, he needs to switch leads anyways, so not a big deal. I would be concerned about the other barrels. And not necessarily that he's doing the lead changes, but why. My mare will switch leads coming out of the barrels. Again, at the first I don't worry because she finishes her turns. At the second though I am continually working on holding the lead. She swaps leads because she's dropping the lead in the back. If I keep her driving through the turn she holds the leads. It doesn't happen often, but occasionally when she swaps back to turn at the 3rd she'll hang her toe. And the why for all of this is because she has pain issues. Her front feet got very sore because of negative angles. The compensation caused hock soreness. It seems like she switches leads more often if she's needing injected again.
With all that being said, I would look at your horse as an individual. Sounds like he's already got enough pattern issues to overcome that I'd only pick a fight if I really needed to. If he's sound and clocking, then no since in trying to fix something that isn't broken. |
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Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | Thanks guys. Yes he's sound and I'm planning on starting to enter him this spring. So far we just exhib. In different arenas. He's been so great the last month I didn't know if I should start trying to fine tune or just leave it and start going. Now I just need to grow a set and run him. R.E. Kept telling me a few weeks ago. Just trust him and run. Easier said then done. Lol. THANKS.
ETA. Rereading. That I wasn't very clear. He has stopped all of his bad behavior and has really been working hard the least month or so. I was just wondering if I should keep fine tuning or go on and start entering. And where everyone liked to have their horses change leads. Thanks guys!
Edited by Married2Rodeo 2014-01-22 1:17 PM
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | My gelding switched leads a lot when I first started "running" him. He was most comfortable running in the right lead but as he matured he learned to hold the lead he was in. I too teach the lead change out of the first with both the counter arc that HBwas talking about or the figure 8, over turn first, small circle other direction, go onto second barrel. I've found that they both tend to teach a horse a little patience on the lead change and for me a barrel hitter that swaps leads late tends to hit more often. Its a lot going on at the barrel, rating, switching leads, trying to keep them square, etc. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| HBL and run n rate - what exactly do you mean by a reverse arc? My young gelding switches his lead VERY late and Id like to fix this before I go any farther. (Don't mean to steal your thread, op, just really curious :-)) |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | I like a lead change right out of the first. but I also like my horse to kind of tell me how he's gonna work the pattern better.
one horse likes to switch coming right off the barrel which ended up coming naturally (whew!)but that comes with he tries so darn hard for me, he switches his leads after every barrel. it's still a work in progress.
my other horse is a lefty and never wants to let that left lead go! he does better switching in the middle between 1 & 2.
If I were you I'd pick your battles, and wait to work on the lead thing til all the other problems iron out a little more. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | If you are a right barrel first turner, then you will over turn your first barrel slightly, then I tipped the nose left, side pass over step or two, then keeping that left bent arc, turn right, again with the nose tipped left and the ribs arced for a left hand turn again traveling in a right hand circle. Ed has us over turn it slightly to make the hip to the inside of the "left hand" lead that you are asking for. Hoping that made sense.... |
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| I like a lead change one horse length after leaving the first barrel, I want to finish it before worrying about the next one. It's always worked for me. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| run n rate - 2014-01-22 12:14 PM
If you are a right barrel first turner, then you will over turn your first barrel slightly, then I tipped the nose left, side pass over step or two, then keeping that left bent arc, turn right, again with the nose tipped left and the ribs arced for a left hand turn again traveling in a right hand circle. Ed has us over turn it slightly to make the hip to the inside of the "left hand" lead that you are asking for. Hoping that made sense....
I think so!
Is it something like what she's doing in this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp2UOVTo1c |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Yes, that is a reverse arc traveling forward, you can also do them keeping their hind feet in a tighter circle or basically not traveling and that really gets them set up for the lead, but make sure in your case that you are doing it after you finish your first and have crossed over your entry point to it...and I believe that video is our own long lost RunStraitHome!!!! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I usually let the horse figure out the lead change deal, but when I had one that wasn't wanting to change until the back side of the second (unless I broke him down between barrels), I put a ground pole between the 1st and 2nd. Most horses will naturally swap when they jump unless you ask them to hold the lead. It worked for him.
To the OP, I wouldn't train for the extra lead changes, but some horses run that way. You see it at the NFR even--swapping off the second and changing back at the third. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| My horse will swap at the rate point into the second and usually on the way home.
Usually if he's not running that way and swapping at other times, swapping multiple times, or not swapping at all history has shown he needs to see the Chiro. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | edited because I totally mis read your post. I guess once I am running, I just let the horse figure out what works best for them. I have had several do it at different places.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2014-01-23 7:51 PM
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| My horse changes leads when I change hands. When I come off of the first, I count to three. That' one kick for each stride. That gives me three strides to look for my point and line my horse up. On this particular horse, I would end up inside my pocket and too close to the barrel if I didn't do it. If you have a tiny pattern or a huge pattern you may have to adjust. My strategy worked on a 15.2 pattern. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Bumping because this is an interesting read :) |
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| Married2Rodeo - 2014-01-22 9:05 AM
I have a retrain that I'm currently riding ( runaway, barrel hitter when you could get him in the arena) he will go to first in the correct lead. As soon as we go to leave first he changes so he's set up to go to the second in the correct lead ( he used to turn first and immediately try to run out. I wonder if he picked this habit up from being able to set himself up to run out after 1st.) run to second turn as soon as we go to leave he swaps. Run to third changes at rate point turns third changes as we go to leave that barrel runs home. Something I should worry about or not? He never misses a lead turning the barrel should I fuss with making him hold his lead longer (couple strides) then as for a change or leave it be. His leads/flying lead changes are completely on the mark when just riding in the arena. Interested to hear what y'all have to say.
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LEAVE THE HORSE ALONE AND LET HIM WORK ... if you keep messing with him you are going to screw him up ...
If you have a natural lead changer or you have done a good job teaching one flying lead changes ... this is the way they work and exactly what a trainer wants them to do at full speed when running the barrels ......
Little do you realize the "wrong lead" between barrels actually squares the horse up for the turn in the correct lead ... if rider is alert and riding in rhythm with their horse they will switch to ride 2 handed between barrels to get squared up with the horse at the same time ... ...
Horses under exertion will use their natural lead and change leads when they go into working mode ...
Lots of people never realize race horses may come out of the gate on a right lead, rider changes to left lead at first turn, then to right lead on back stretch, left lead again on far turn and the winners will be on the right lead coming down the stretch across the finish line .... that monkey on board is busier than you think he is ... (the lead changes gives the off side time to rest and be fresher and stronger than a horse that stays on one lead)
On your run out at first barrel ... 1st barrel has 1 1/4 turns .. those riders that run to the barrel are usually the ones that run out due to approach being too fast OR the rider and horse thinking it is a standard 360 degree turn ..... fix is simple ... run to imaginary line between 1st and 2nd 30 ft in front of 1st barrel and make the 1/4 turn to setup your standard 360 degree tear drop turning pattern ... rider and horse will stop getting lost when turning the first barrel ...
GOOD LUCK!!
 (Barrel PATTERN QTR TURN TO 1ST 80.jpg)
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 Barrel PATTERN QTR TURN TO 1ST 80.jpg (87KB - 358 downloads)
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