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More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnamon!

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rollingrfarm
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2014-02-14 10:12 AM
Subject: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnamon!



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 http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/viagra-suspension-a-trail-from-china-to-new-mexico/

Edited by rollingrfarm 2014-02-14 10:14 AM
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2014-02-14 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Interesting article.  While I believe doping is a serious problem especially with quarter horse racing, IF this was in fact the compounding companies' fault then the penalties given the owners and trainer are rather harsh.

 

Quarter horse trainer John Stinebaugh said contamination of cinnamon ginseng powder – imported from China into Canada, then sent to a compounding pharmacy in Texas, made into a paste sold to veterinarians and given to horses he trained in New Mexico – may put him out of business.

“Trainers beware,” he told the Paulick Report two days after being fined $40,000 and having his licensed suspended 16 years by the New Mexico Racing Commission. Last July, four horses in his care tested positive for Sildenafil, the active ingredient in the erectile dysfunction drug Viagra. He said trace amounts of the drug showed up as a result of contaminated raw materials used by a compounding pharmacy. “If I can’t trust the vets and the vets can’t trust the companies they buy their products from, where does it end?”

Because Stinebaugh plans to appeal the suspension and $40,000 fine he received from Sunland Park stewards on Monday, it’s unclear where this story ends.  But the trail began, apparently, somewhere in China with an herbal ingredient that was shipped to Attix Pharmaceuticals in Toronto, Canada, continued south to Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy in Texas, and eventually crossed the border to New Mexico’s Ruidoso Downs, where the four horses raced in Futurity and Derby Trails last July 5 and 6.

 

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Along the line, a compounded product named Tourniquet, which purportedly is used to treat exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage, allegedly became contaminated with a trace amount of the Viagra drug. Stewards and the New Mexico Racing Commission ruled Stinebaugh was ultimately responsible as the absolute insurer of his horses after tests from the Maddy Laboratory at the University of California-Davis came back positive for Sildenafil.

 

New Mexico horse racing has been ground zero for drug cheating since the New York Times exposed lax regulations with a series of articles in the spring of 2012. Its commission, under executive director Vince Mares, has sought help from New Mexico legislators, getting an expanded budget for improved drug testing, tighter security and tougher penalties.

“I’m almost collateral damage to the commission,” said Stinebaugh.

The players in this drama, in addition to Stinebaugh, who worked under Quarter horse legend training legend Blane Schvaneveldt before going off on his own 30 years ago, are:

—Boyd Clement, DVM, a longtime racetrack practitioner associated with the Equine Sports Medicine & Surgery headquartered in Weatherford, Texas. Stinebaugh has been one of his clients.

—Joe Landers, owner of the Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy in Weatherford, the subject of an in-depth article by Frank Angst of Bloodhorse.com last November that listed some of the pharmacy’s products by name, including Tourniquet, Equine Growth Hormone, Game Changer, Exacta, and Race Ready.

—Attix Pharmaceuticals, a company founded in Toronto in 2000 by Syveon D. Liu, a graduate of the School of Pharmaceutical Sciences at the Beijing Medical University and who later studied in Australia and Canada.

According to Stinebaugh, testimony was provided to stewards from representatives of Attix and Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy that materials sent to the compounder from Canada were contaminated with Sildenafil. The trainer said the owners of the four horses were reimbursed for purse money they had to forfeit because of the positive tests.

Tourniquet is the name of an injectable product available from Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy. A similar product, apparently under the same Tourniquet name, was developed last year as a paste and sold by Landers as an herbal treatment for EIPH. Stinebaugh said Tourniquet contains vitamins, amino acids and a cinnamon ginseng extract. “What part of that am I supposed to be nervous about?” he said.

Among those Landers sold this paste to was Clement, the veterinarian for Stinebaugh, shortly before the Rainbow Derby and Futurity Trials were held last July. Clement recalls talking with Landers about the product that he now insists was contaminated with Sildenafil.

“I asked the compounder (Landers), ‘Did this have any Viagra or Viagra-like substances?’” Clement said. “People who were privy to the conversation said I asked him six times. Each time he replied ‘no.’”

Why, Clement was asked by the Paulick Report, would he be so specific in asking about a prohibited drug being in an herbal treatment?

“I know by word of mouth and through the grapevine that Viagra in the past had been used to treat bleeders,” Clement said, “but I also knew it would test, so we didn’t want to take any chances. These horses were going in the Trials.

“I’ve been a racetrack vet 40 years,” Clement added. “I’m dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s for the clients that I work for.”

Clement, who said “most racetrack practices have done business with Joe Landers and umpteen other” compounding pharmacies, admitted that he prescribed the paste product without having any scientific or clinical evidence of its efficacy.

“It was sent to us and we tried it in horses that were working,” Clement said. “For whatever reason the horses didn’t bleed that much. This all happened in a very compressed time frame. This stuff was not dramatic enough of an advantage for anyone to continue on with it. It was not that kind of thing.

“Nobody made any covert effort to give Viagra to any horses,” Clement added.

“I haven’t read all the details, but it was a cinnamon ginseng powder that was contaminated. It’s my understanding the stuff was shipped from China to some company in Canada (Attix), and this company distributes to human and animal compounders in the United States.”

Stinebaugh said he was not the only trainer with horses running in the Trials on July 5 and 6 who used the product, which he said was a paste version of the injectable Tourniquet. “The contamination wasn’t in every single tube,” he said. “But I was the only trainer that got positives, and only on four horses.”

Similar cases were heard in Iowa when positive tests for trace amounts of Sildenafil came back on four horses racing at Prairie Meadows. An official with the Iowa Racing and Gaming Commission said convincing evidence was presented that the positive tests were a result of contamination in the paste version of Tourniquet around the same time as the Rainbow Trials at Ruidoso. Those cases resulted in one trainer being suspended 15 days and two others getting $1,000 fines.

Landers could not be reached and did not respond to a message left at the Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy.

Last year, in the Bloodhorse profile, which ran under the headline “Texas Compounder Draws Industry Scrutiny,” Landers defended his operation. “Anything we make, it’s at the request of veterinarians and how they want to put them together, and what they want to do. The owners, the trainers, and the veterinarians are the ones that control what goes into their horse, not the pharmacy. We don’t go in there and give them anything.”

Asked specifically about some of the products, Landers added: “There’s not been a horse yet that’s had a bad test on Race Ready. There’s not been a horse yet that’s had a bad test on Tourniquet. If there was, this would have surfaced a long time ago.”

Compounders serve an important role in human and veterinary medicine, but some compounders have, as the Bloodhorse.com piece indicated, been under the watchful eye of racing regulators – though there seemingly is little they can do to regulate them. Compounding pharmacies are believed to have been the source of the powerful and dangerous illegal drug dermorphin, also known as frog juice, that was used rampantly in Quarter horse racing in New Mexico until a test was developed two years ago. To date, no compounders have been identified.

Many compounding pharmacies, like Hagyards and Rood & Riddle in Kentucky or Wedgewood Pharmacy in New Jersey, are members of the Pharmacy Compounding Accreditation Board. PCAB accreditation assures consumers that the pharmacy complies with nationally accepted quality control, quality assurance and quality improvement standards. According to the PCAB website, Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy is not a member of the organization.

There is some question about whether a compounded product like Tourniquet is, technically, a legal drug. According to an FDA official, speaking to the American Association of Equine Practitioners in December, when a compounded product’s name or labeling may imply or give the impression of certain claims (i.e. Tourniquet could be interpreted as “stops bleeding”), and the product has not gone through the FDA approval process, that product is not legal.

None of that matters to Stinebaugh, who said using the Tourniquet product “wasn’t about cheating. It was all about the health of the horse.” Internal bleeding, especially in the high altitude of Ruidoso Downs is a major problem, Stinebaugh insisted. “I know for a fact that Tourniquet is used coast to coast and there has never been a problem with it,” Stinebaugh said. “The only problem was when it was made into a paste. They made that change last summer, and that’s when I got in trouble.

“I am responsible for the health and welfare of those horses,” Stinebaugh said. “I am glad to be the insuror of that, and I think I’ve done a very good job. I can not be responsible for things that happened thousands of miles away and weeks and months before.”

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TrailGirl
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2014-02-14 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....

1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.
--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?

2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?

And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.

In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO
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Runaway
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2014-02-14 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Finally, fines somewhat in-line with the offense.  Should have been more, but $40K is a nice start for this misuse/abuse.    

 
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bigmare
Reg. Jun 2006
Posted 2014-02-14 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam


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TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 10:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....



1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.

--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?



2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?



And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  



Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.



In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO

I agree with you....& it bothered me that this compounding outfit isn't in the compounding organization the article mentioned....there always seems to be grand excuses when a new drug scandal comes to light.
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-14 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 11:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....



1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.

--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?



2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?



And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  



Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.



In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO

You are not cynical at all more of a good detective!  Like I said I hate Weatherford Compounding!  You are spot on with your perception.

1.  I have been to many manufacturing facilities in China and to us Americans they may not seem very clean but they seem to pass FDA inspections when they need to.  If a machine is cleaned properly following GMP guidelines there will never be cross contamination.  All ingredients need to have a certificate of analysis for all ingredients.  The reason the ingredients are shipped from China to Canada first is because it is easier to smuggle illegal ingredients into the USA from Canada.  Like I have been saying for years this is how illegal Bute is smuggled into the USA.  Sildenfil has been being used in QH racing for a few years.  Almost all trainers knew about it.  What are the chances the compounded ingredient was contaminated with an enhancer and not some other ingredient?

2.  I call BS on the Vet asking the compounder if the paste contained Viagra over and over.  Why would the Vet be asking about a random ingredient and not XYZ?

Illegal compounding (Using non-FDA approved pharamaceuticals raw materials) is all about Greed by compounders and Veterinarians!

 
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Herbie
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2014-02-14 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam


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Correct me if I am wrong, and I very well could be, but the only race day medication allowed is actual Furosemide, Lasix.  Not Tourniquette or whatever else they said he was giving.  If Furosemide is the only allowable race day medication, then both the vet and the trainer are breaking the rules anyway and whether or not the medication given contained the alleged drug or not is null and void.  Just because something gets through the test barn without popping doesn't make it legal.  It means they haven't gotten the test developed yet that will make it pop positive.  I hope they stick it to all of them.   

Edited by Herbie 2014-02-14 1:44 PM
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-14 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Herbie - 2014-02-14 1:43 PM Correct me if I am wrong, and I very well could be, but the only race day medication allowed is actual Furosemide, Lasix.  Not Tourniquette or whatever else they said he was giving.  If Furosemide is the only allowable race day medication, then both the vet and the trainer are breaking the rules anyway and whether or not the medication given contained the alleged drug or not is null and void.  Just because something gets through the test barn without popping doesn't make it legal.  It means they haven't gotten the test developed yet that will make it pop positive.  I hope they stick it to all of them.   

Since it was a paste and considered a supplement(According to the ingredients listed), it could be given on race day, but then I have seen hundreds of vets give stuff on race day.  If fact I have been asked by vets if I wanted them to give stuff that has no affect on a horse just so they can make money! 
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-14 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Race track stewards need to have random searches of the veterinarians trucks and offices because they have many drugs that are not FDA approved!
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Barnmom
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2014-02-14 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Douglas J Gordon - 2014-02-14 2:04 PM Race track stewards need to have random searches of the veterinarians trucks and offices because they have many drugs that are not FDA approved!

First- Why did this post get a dislike.

Second- They do have random searches of vet trucks in Texas.  I would think they would in NM also since my husband has had random searches of his truck and trailer in NM and Texas. 
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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2014-02-15 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam


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Barnmom - 2014-02-14 1:18 PM
Douglas J Gordon - 2014-02-14 2:04 PM Race track stewards need to have random searches of the veterinarians trucks and offices because they have many drugs that are not FDA approved!
First- Why did this post get a dislike.



Second- They do have random searches of vet trucks in Texas.  I would think they would in NM also since my husband has had random searches of his truck and trailer in NM and Texas. 




I wondered about the disliking too on some of these posts. Maybe we have a troll amongst us that dopes their race horses and doesn't agree with the fines. For the horse's wellfare, I think they need much stricter "something" I don't know what, but this crap has to stop.

 
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-15 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 11:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....

1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.
--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?

2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?

And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.

In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO
 As I looked back over your detective work, you have brought up more good points.  FDA approved ingredients have a genealogy or history every where from manufacturing to transportation of USP 34 quality ingredients.  It is very easy to follow that line to find where the cross contamination took place.  From the research I have done there are no Chinese companies that manufacture Cinnamon/ Ginseng in the same facility as Sildenafil. Also the investigation seemed to end with Attixx Pharmaceuticals, that was not far enough to show where the cross contamination took place.  The names of the manufacturers of the vitamins, amino acids, cinnamon, and Ginseng were not disclosed.  If I was accused, I would have made sure it was traced back to the manufacturer of the ingredients.

Edited by Douglas J Gordon 2014-02-15 2:10 PM
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BMW
Reg. Jan 2010
Posted 2014-02-15 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam


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Have they ever said how much of the illegal drug was found in the horse's sample? Like several others I question how something was "contaminatedi" with a very illegal drug. I would think that the compounding companies and others would be EXTREMELY CAREFUL that this would not happen. As much as Viagra sells for i would also think the companies would be very careful how they use those drugs and don't just leave them laying around to be accidentally put in a compound.
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jbhoot
Reg. Jan 2010
Posted 2014-02-15 10:51 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Douglas J Gordon - 2014-02-15 1:55 PM

TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 11:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....

1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.
--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?

2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?

And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.

In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO
 As I looked back over your detective work, you have brought up more good points.  FDA approved ingredients have a genealogy or history every where from manufacturing to transportation of USP 34 quality ingredients.  It is very easy to follow that line to find where the cross contamination took place.  From the research I have done there are no Chinese companies that manufacture Cinnamon/ Ginseng in the same facility as Sildenafil. Also the investigation seemed to end with Attixx Pharmaceuticals, that was not far enough to show where the cross contamination took place.  The names of the manufacturers of the vitamins, amino acids, cinnamon, and Ginseng were not disclosed.  If I was accused, I would have made sure it was traced back to the manufacturer of the ingredients.

Doug how much Sildenafil does it take to effect the blood flow in a horse? The article does not state how much was found present in the four horses. If the amount found is enough to effect the horses performance than the trainer and the vet are full of BS. However if the amounts where only trace amounts than maybe he is not full of it. I know how much it takes to effect a human. It seems to me it would take roughly 5 to 6 times that amount to effect a horse. If I am correct that would hardly be an amount you could over look. If on the other hand if it's only trace amounts I can not see how the horses performance was enhanced. I understand the zero tolerance rule so the trainer is still to blame but like the Ia. case maybe it should be reduced. I am not picking sides here just trying to look at both sides.

Edited by jbhoot 2014-02-15 10:57 PM
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-16 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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jbhoot - 2014-02-15 10:51 PM
Douglas J Gordon - 2014-02-15 1:55 PM
TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 11:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....

1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.
--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?

2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?

And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  

Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.

In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO
 As I looked back over your detective work, you have brought up more good points.  FDA approved ingredients have a genealogy or history every where from manufacturing to transportation of USP 34 quality ingredients.  It is very easy to follow that line to find where the cross contamination took place.  From the research I have done there are no Chinese companies that manufacture Cinnamon/ Ginseng in the same facility as Sildenafil. Also the investigation seemed to end with Attixx Pharmaceuticals, that was not far enough to show where the cross contamination took place.  The names of the manufacturers of the vitamins, amino acids, cinnamon, and Ginseng were not disclosed.  If I was accused, I would have made sure it was traced back to the manufacturer of the ingredients.
Doug how much Sildenafil does it take to effect the blood flow in a horse? The article does not state how much was found present in the four horses. If the amount found is enough to effect the horses performance than the trainer and the vet are full of BS. However if the amounts where only trace amounts than maybe he is not full of it. I know how much it takes to effect a human. It seems to me it would take roughly 5 to 6 times that amount to effect a horse. If I am correct that would hardly be an amount you could over look. If on the other hand if it's only trace amounts I can not see how the horses performance was enhanced. I understand the zero tolerance rule so the trainer is still to blame but like the Ia. case maybe it should be reduced. I am not picking sides here just trying to look at both sides.


 6 pills.  Usually horse dosages are about 6 times the human dose with products.

Edited by Douglas J Gordon 2014-02-16 12:28 AM
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cutnrunqhmt
Reg. Oct 2010
Posted 2014-02-16 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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When I saw actual Viagra given to a horse it was 2 pills . The vet was eventually pickup up for it along with some trainers , he can no longer practice at any track and the trainer is back at it. Those 2 pills made a huge difference in the horses. Not that I believe in what they were doing . I did not like that the trainer got days during off time and was back to training , he knew what he was giving. He was fined and given days I think 2yrs ago for a cocaine violation as well and is still training. He has a huge stable and wins .

Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2014-02-16 2:08 PM
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2014-02-16 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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cutnrunqhmt - 2014-02-16 1:34 PM When I saw actual Viagra given to a horse it was 2 pills . The vet was eventually pickup up for it along with some trainers , he can no longer practice at any track and the trainer is back at it. Those 2 pills made a huge difference in the horses. Not that I believe in what they were doing . I did not like that the trainer got days during off time and was back to training , he knew what he was giving. He was fined and given days I think 2yrs ago for a cocaine violation as well and is still training. He has a huge stable and wins .

Depends on the mg. strength.
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komet.
Reg. Jun 2012
Posted 2014-02-16 4:44 PM
Subject: RE: More on the suspended fined Racehorse Trainers: viagra contaminated Chinese ginseng and cinnam



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Douglas J Gordon - 2014-02-15 1:55 PM
TrailGirl - 2014-02-14 11:01 AM Ok...maybe I'm just a cynic...but a couple of things about this really make me go Hmmmmm....



1. The fact that a "Cinnamon-Ginseng"  powder could become incidentally "contaminated" with a synthetic drug whose original purpose was the reduction of systemic blood pressure...and then that contaminated powder was then coincidentally mixed into a paste designed to help control bleeding in race horses.

--Uh...that's some serendipity right there.  I mean...why "contaminated" with Sildenafil...why not lead or arsenic or mercury or some non-synthetic compound...or why not any other drug that doesn't just "happen" to have the desired effect?



2.  The veterinarian statment that he repeatedly asked the compounding pharmacist if the paste contained Viagra...specifically... over and over.  Um...this particular "contamination" hadn't been documented before.  The way I understand the timeline...the Illinois case occurred about the same time.  From the same source Pharmacy.  Why would he ask about that particular drug...and not any other?



And when you read the statements from the compounding pharmacist. It sounds like he is essentially alluding to the fact that he gives the vets what they are asking for...and it's not up to him to decide what to put in the compounded drugs...that's up to the vets.  



Maybe I'm too much of a cynic...but I think they knew **** well that the drug was in there.  They just came up with a way to deflect blame if the crap hit the air circulator.



In the distance CTR I used to compete in...there are many substances that are not allowed and we do test.  One time a horse came back positive for bute.  When confronted with the disqualifying/penalty incurring positive test results the rider declared that it must have been residual and accidental.  That she would recycle old empty bute syringes to administer electrolytes to her horse.  That she must not have rinsed it well enough.  Um...that's either a really dumb idea to do that for a competition when you know the rules...or its a clever way to try to deflect blame and get out of any consequences in the event you are busted.  I see a great similarity here with this "contamination" of sildenafil.  JMO
 As I looked back over your detective work, you have brought up more good points.  FDA approved ingredients have a genealogy or history every where from manufacturing to transportation of USP 34 quality ingredients.  It is very easy to follow that line to find where the cross contamination took place.  From the research I have done there are no Chinese companies that manufacture Cinnamon/ Ginseng in the same facility as Sildenafil. Also the investigation seemed to end with Attixx Pharmaceuticals, that was not far enough to show where the cross contamination took place.  The names of the manufacturers of the vitamins, amino acids, cinnamon, and Ginseng were not disclosed.  If I was accused, I would have made sure it was traced back to the manufacturer of the ingredients.

According to what source? The communist Chinese government?? When did you start believing anything they said?
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