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 Off The Wall
Posts: 4737
   
Location: Somewhere in Mommyland | I'm starting to doubt my decision to try barefoot with my horse. I pulled his shoes April 2013. He was getting his feet trimmed every 5 weeks until October 2013. In October I needed to reschedule our appt and the farrier said she couldn't get back out to me until the next round. We both decided that wasn't a big deal since he wasn't growing that much foot at the time. December came and she messaged me out of the blue and said she was going to have to cancel our appt and I needed to find a new farrier which I did.
The condition of his feet have improved 200%! No more cracks, flakey walls etc. However he is still going thru what I call abscess spells after every trim. He comes up lame like he's got an abscess. There's some heat in one foot, usually around the coronary band. This will last anywhere from a few days to a couple of weeks. I've had x-rays done and nothing shows up. This last time he got trimmed it happened in a front foot and back foot. I know we went backwards a bit after missing October's appt but when will he get over this process and be able to be ridden again?
Oh, and he doesn't react to hoof testers when he has these episodes. He is kept high and dry, and lives in a paddock with small gravel with access to a matted stall. This is our winter set up. He does move better out in the arena with softer footing. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| That's pretty much what my guys went through in their first year of barefoot. Xena had a few tiny tiny toe abscesses in her fronts, and Zan had fewer, but one slightly larger abscess that showed on harder ground but not in the sand arena, also in fronts. My last farrier visit in midish Jan 14 we found an old and dry abscess on one of Zan's rear walls. It was very strange looking and a wonder that he wasn't totally lame when it was active. I'll be two years barefoot in Mayish of this year. Xena hasn't shown an abscess since the one year mark. Zan had one front toe abscess in June-July 2013 and now this last one that probably developed Aug-Sept 2013.
My guys are knee deep in mud and both my farrier and I have seen an IMPROVEMENT since the mud started last fall. Even the tiny areas of thrush that Xena will sometimes have are gone. My boarder points out that they are living in poultice! LOL! Clean mud won't cause issues, but poop and urine soaked bedding or dirt will. So with your guy I doubt his footing is causing the issues unless the small gravel is irritating his freshly exposed walls after trimming?
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| How much sole is your farrier taking off after each trim?
I think that maybe the sole is too tender and being bruised then abscessing.
What I would do is after the trim then I would apply iodine daily to the bottom of the feet.
If he was still tender I would invest in some old Mac boots and have him in those till his feet hardened up |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Every horse I transitioned abscessed for about the first 6 months. Transitioning takes time....at least 6-8 months is what you need to give yourself without worrying about missing days of riding. Of course booting is important to protect the soles from bruising, but either way,you can expect abscessing. One of the three was almost non-stop and the other two didn't abscess. They have now been barefoot for almost a year and a half and have not had one problem past the 5-6 month mark. Feet are super healthy, not chipping, peeling, cracking, breaking, etc.
I wanted to add: Booting is important while transitioning because the soles will be thin. The idea is to ease them out of the boots once the foot develops concavity/sole depth, which will prevent bruising/abscessing from the bruising of thin soles. Your trimmer should basically not be removing any sole callous at all. Rarely will my trimmer pull out her knife. When she does it is just to trim up frog flaps that may hold moisture/dirt where it shouldn't be. But that frog material will be peeling off anyway and will be obviously loose. She never just cuts sole or frog out like a standard farrier would do. That material is what will prevent bruising and give them the protection they need. Hope I explained that OK. :-)
Edited by annemarea 2014-02-22 8:46 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| One book to get is Pete Ramsey's natural hoof care, it talks about transitioning, abscesses, etc, very good book |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | at one point we were using a natural hoof trimmer to trim our horses. he was a disaster. toe long, heels cut off, hoof walls would break off leaving external lamina exposed, that would curl up and over- this horse was not at my house, he was at a trainer at the time who was booting him and I didn't know how it looked.
I went back to our regular shoer after that. However, he keeps a lot of my horses barefoot and I love how he does it. He doesn't just get them ready for a shoe and not put it on. LOL.
When I bred my #1 barrel horse, I took her shoes off. She would be SORE for the first few days for months. Finally she's gotten to where her feet aren't tender after trims. Honestly, if she keeps this up, I don't think I will put shoes back on her. I plan on getting soft rides for her instead for parking lots.
Moral of the story- the right farrier can make barefoot work, the wrong farrier- yikes! And it takes time. I never had the abscessing, but she would get very tender. |
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Off The Wall
Posts: 4737
Location: Somewhere in Mommyland | Farrier isn't touching the soles. She rarely takes a hoof knife to his feet. This is not a farrier issue. She's great at what she does and uses the Pete Ramey methods.
As for the boots, we are fitting him next trim for a pair of Renegade hoof boots. But I thought when you were transitioning them to barefoot it was best to not use boots as that hindered hardening of the soles? I also feel that I should be working him lightly on some firm ground to promote more blood flow to his feet. He hasn't been ridden or worked minus a few romps in the arena since we went barefoot. He was out in a 3 acre pasture all summer and now is on the gravel paddocks for the winter months. He was very sore week before last even on the arena footing which perplexed me. As of tonight he's still ouchy on his front right and hind left.
I really do want to see this thru because I can see how much healthier his feet are compared to what we started with. It's amazing really. But I'm just sad for my horse because he looks pitiful lately. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Runzbarrel - 2014-02-23 2:36 AM
Farrier isn't touching the soles. Â She rarely takes a hoof knife to his feet. Â This is not a farrier issue. Â She's great at what she does and uses the Pete Ramey methods. Â
As for the boots, we are fitting him next trim for a pair of Renegade hoof boots. Â But I thought when you were transitioning them to barefoot it was best to not use boots as that hindered hardening of the soles? Â I also feel that I should be working him lightly on some firm ground to promote more blood flow to his feet. Â He hasn't been ridden or worked minus a few romps in the arena since we went barefoot. Â He was out in a 3 acre pasture all summer and now is on the gravel paddocks for the winter months. Â He was very sore week before last even on the arena footing which perplexed me. Â As of tonight he's still ouchy on his front right and hind left. Â
I really do want to see this thru because I can see how much healthier his feet are compared to what we started with. Â It's amazing really. Â But I'm just sad for my horse because he looks pitiful lately. Â Â
A farrier has to touch the sole, they should be cleaning the sole 1/2" around the frog to healthy tissue, it says this in the Pete Ramsey book. The reasoning behind this is when the horse puts pressure on the foot, the frog drops down a little allowing the blood to enter better, then when the horse picks his foot back up the frog goes up pushing the blood out of the foot. This helps with circulation.
It is also important to keep the foot expanding and contracting, and prevents contracted heels.
I would suggest buying the book and educating yourself. I would also be questioning if the horse has a false sole. Or thrush in the frog, as if she is not cleaning the frog at all and you are in wet conditions this is a good possibility.
Pictures always help. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | I agree, pics would be really helpful. It's really hard to give any quality advice without seeing exactly what you have going on. There's a ton of people who think their farrier is doing a great job & they really aren't (not saying this is the case here but it's really typical).
Boots can be very beneficial. If the horse is not comfortable you are not gaining anything by having them barefoot. The boots allow the foot to expand just like barefoot does. They protect the sole but the foot is still gets healthier while they are used. |
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Location: OK | Keep with it! It's not always easy starting out, but so worth it in the end!
Movement is key. Hard ground is absolutely necessary for the foot to get required circulation. I ride 1/2 mile on pasture/rocky ground to get to my arena. I work in the soft arena ground, then ride back on the hard ground. When transitioning, sometimes I'd need Easyboot Gloves to start off. Half way there, I could take them off and finish without boots. Now I know that they need to keep going for the circulation to really improve inside the foot. There are things called "sterile abscesses". These are usually caused from necrotic tissue within the foot. As the healthy tissue begins to respond to circulation, it needs to push the dead stuff out, thus abscesses. Sometimes painful, sometimes not at all. As you learn more, you will be able to transition them without the need for boots. Movement, turnout, movement. Did I remember to say "movement"? LOL
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Off The Wall
Posts: 4737
Location: Somewhere in Mommyland | cheryl makofka - 2014-02-23 8:07 AM Runzbarrel - 2014-02-23 2:36 AM Farrier isn't touching the soles. She rarely takes a hoof knife to his feet. This is not a farrier issue. She's great at what she does and uses the Pete Ramey methods.
As for the boots, we are fitting him next trim for a pair of Renegade hoof boots. But I thought when you were transitioning them to barefoot it was best to not use boots as that hindered hardening of the soles? I also feel that I should be working him lightly on some firm ground to promote more blood flow to his feet. He hasn't been ridden or worked minus a few romps in the arena since we went barefoot. He was out in a 3 acre pasture all summer and now is on the gravel paddocks for the winter months. He was very sore week before last even on the arena footing which perplexed me. As of tonight he's still ouchy on his front right and hind left.
I really do want to see this thru because I can see how much healthier his feet are compared to what we started with. It's amazing really. But I'm just sad for my horse because he looks pitiful lately. A farrier has to touch the sole, they should be cleaning the sole 1/2" around the frog to healthy tissue, it says this in the Pete Ramsey book. The reasoning behind this is when the horse puts pressure on the foot, the frog drops down a little allowing the blood to enter better, then when the horse picks his foot back up the frog goes up pushing the blood out of the foot. This helps with circulation. It is also important to keep the foot expanding and contracting, and prevents contracted heels. I would suggest buying the book and educating yourself. I would also be questioning if the horse has a false sole. Or thrush in the frog, as if she is not cleaning the frog at all and you are in wet conditions this is a good possibility. Pictures always help.
Yes she does clean the foot up etc. I was meaning she doesn't carve out his sole with the knife. She trims his frog when needed etc. I will work on getting pics. Right now we are in pouring down rain for the next couple days.
When we first started I had x-rays done and his sole was very thin. Less than a 1/4in. He hardened up nice over the summer when it was dry and hardly had any issue's. |
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