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 Expert
Posts: 4121
 
Location: SE Louisiana | angelica - 2014-02-19 7:58 AM
I owned a horse years ago that would flip over when you tried to ride him. If you put him in a round pen he would refuse to move, he would stand so close to the person trying to get him to move he was a danger. I made sure he made it on the kill truck because I didn't want someone to end up with him and have him kill them when they tried to mess with them. Its unfortunate when they are like this but it is simply not worth dealing with. Be careful working with him he can kill you trying to rush the fence like that!!
Someone didn't know what they were doing. I PROMISE you if I was in that round pen that horse would MOVE away from me till I let up.... and I'd make him run in both directions till he had learned respect. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
  
| komet. - 2014-02-19 10:00 AM
angelica - 2014-02-19 7:58 AM
I owned a horse years ago that would flip over when you tried to ride him. If you put him in a round pen he would refuse to move, he would stand so close to the person trying to get him to move he was a danger. I made sure he made it on the kill truck because I didn't want someone to end up with him and have him kill them when they tried to mess with them. Its unfortunate when they are like this but it is simply not worth dealing with. Be careful working with him he can kill you trying to rush the fence like that!!
Someone didn't know what they were doing. I PROMISE you if I was in that round pen that horse would MOVE away from me till I let up.... and I'd make him run in both directions till he had learned respect.
 What Komet said! |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | I think a stud chain to keep his face towards you would be something good to try. But ny suggestion would be to go out like normal and start to lunge him. The absolute split second he starts to disobey, I would lay him down. At age 16, he's going to give you all his respect or none of it. Laying him down might be a good choice. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Just Let Me Run - 2014-02-19 10:32 AM I think a stud chain to keep his face towards you would be something good to try. But ny suggestion would be to go out like normal and start to lunge him. The absolute split second he starts to disobey, I would lay him down. At age 16, he's going to give you all his respect or none of it. Laying him down might be a good choice.
Ok, I have to really disagree with you! Don't lay a horse down, you accomplish nothing. It may work for dogs but a horse is a flight animal and laying one down does not show leadership, it will create fear and a load more problems. A horse is always looking for a leader or to be a leader and that leader has to get it through their language. Have you ever seen a horse lay down another horse to establish dominance and leadership... NO. You get respect through their feet. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Longneck - 2014-02-18 10:22 PM
I originally had plans to send him off and turn around and sell him once he was rideable again... but my dad told my nephew that it could be "his horse". He's obviously not going to be trying to rode him, he's strictly a pasture ornament and since he is kept at my parents (I'm certainly not moving him to my place and feeding him!) and they are the ones who bought him for me 11 years ago I really have no ground to stand on. I could send him to someone, but I know that would have to come out of my own pocket and I don't want the trainer bill since I won't be able to recover any of my costs. I'd rather keep saving my money for a decent horse. I literally feel like I am beating a dead horse. I'm not sure of my whip doesn't have enough sting or what it is, but he had rather me stand there and whip him to no end versus giving me his feet. I wish my round pen set up was more sturdy and I'd have no problem if he wanted to get jumpy and I knew he wasn't posing a more serious harm.I would have my husband (I know the horse can sense my apprehension about riding him) try to ride him, but he really only has time on the weekends... if even that.I think I will try to start two a days with him and see about converting a stock corral into a more sturdy round pen.Any whip suggestions? I'm just using a typical lunge whip, but I'm wondering if leather would be more effective? Also, would a hotshot be too harsh? I know it's not going to give me distance I'd like to have from him, but I am at a loss for creativity. I tried a plastic sack around a training whip one day.... he moved for about 1 minute until he figured the bag posed no serious threat.It's just so frustrating knowing that I started riding this horse when I was 13! I'm 24 now and can't seem to get anywhere!!!
Horses like this will make you never want to work with a horse again. He's old and set in his ways. There's a reason that saying, "You can't teach and old dog new tricks" has been around so long. It's not going to be worth the effort or risks you're going to have to take. Leave him at your parents, and don't try to work with him. At this point, he's like a 30 yr old kid that has been allowed to sleep all day and do what he wants. No way he's ever going to get out and go to work w/o a HUGE fight. Just wait and get yourself a nice horse and enjoy horses for a change. Hugs. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | dianeguinn - 2014-02-19 10:50 AM Longneck - 2014-02-18 10:22 PM I originally had plans to send him off and turn around and sell him once he was rideable again... but my dad told my nephew that it could be "his horse". He's obviously not going to be trying to rode him, he's strictly a pasture ornament and since he is kept at my parents (I'm certainly not moving him to my place and feeding him!) and they are the ones who bought him for me 11 years ago I really have no ground to stand on. I could send him to someone, but I know that would have to come out of my own pocket and I don't want the trainer bill since I won't be able to recover any of my costs. I'd rather keep saving my money for a decent horse. I literally feel like I am beating a dead horse. I'm not sure of my whip doesn't have enough sting or what it is, but he had rather me stand there and whip him to no end versus giving me his feet. I wish my round pen set up was more sturdy and I'd have no problem if he wanted to get jumpy and I knew he wasn't posing a more serious harm.I would have my husband (I know the horse can sense my apprehension about riding him) try to ride him, but he really only has time on the weekends... if even that.I think I will try to start two a days with him and see about converting a stock corral into a more sturdy round pen.Any whip suggestions? I'm just using a typical lunge whip, but I'm wondering if leather would be more effective? Also, would a hotshot be too harsh? I know it's not going to give me distance I'd like to have from him, but I am at a loss for creativity. I tried a plastic sack around a training whip one day.... he moved for about 1 minute until he figured the bag posed no serious threat.It's just so frustrating knowing that I started riding this horse when I was 13! I'm 24 now and can't seem to get anywhere!!! Horses like this will make you never want to work with a horse again. He's old and set in his ways. There's a reason that saying, "You can't teach and old dog new tricks" has been around so long. It's not going to be worth the effort or risks you're going to have to take. Leave him at your parents, and don't try to work with him. At this point, he's like a 30 yr old kid that has been allowed to sleep all day and do what he wants. No way he's ever going to get out and go to work w/o a HUGE fight. Just wait and get yourself a nice horse and enjoy horses for a change. Hugs.
He is the exact reason I stepped away from horses completely 7 1/2 years ago. We were trying to go into the alley at Lightning C one Wednesday night and he had the slope by the stalls to his advantage when he reared. He bent my saddle horn to where some of the rawhide cracked and now has sharp edges and I keep it vet wrapped to keep from cutting my hand. It's a constant reminder for me. I'm so lucky that I fell to the left of him, but it wasn't a physically pain free experience.
I think I'm just going to let him be. He doesn't present any harm to anyone when he's just out in the pasture. I don't think he ever will and if he does then he can go and meet his maker. |
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 I"m Jealous!
Posts: 1737
Location: Benton City, WA | dianeguinn - 2014-02-19 8:50 AM Longneck - 2014-02-18 10:22 PM I originally had plans to send him off and turn around and sell him once he was rideable again... but my dad told my nephew that it could be "his horse". He's obviously not going to be trying to rode him, he's strictly a pasture ornament and since he is kept at my parents (I'm certainly not moving him to my place and feeding him!) and they are the ones who bought him for me 11 years ago I really have no ground to stand on. I could send him to someone, but I know that would have to come out of my own pocket and I don't want the trainer bill since I won't be able to recover any of my costs. I'd rather keep saving my money for a decent horse. I literally feel like I am beating a dead horse. I'm not sure of my whip doesn't have enough sting or what it is, but he had rather me stand there and whip him to no end versus giving me his feet. I wish my round pen set up was more sturdy and I'd have no problem if he wanted to get jumpy and I knew he wasn't posing a more serious harm.I would have my husband (I know the horse can sense my apprehension about riding him) try to ride him, but he really only has time on the weekends... if even that.I think I will try to start two a days with him and see about converting a stock corral into a more sturdy round pen.Any whip suggestions? I'm just using a typical lunge whip, but I'm wondering if leather would be more effective? Also, would a hotshot be too harsh? I know it's not going to give me distance I'd like to have from him, but I am at a loss for creativity. I tried a plastic sack around a training whip one day.... he moved for about 1 minute until he figured the bag posed no serious threat.It's just so frustrating knowing that I started riding this horse when I was 13! I'm 24 now and can't seem to get anywhere!!! Horses like this will make you never want to work with a horse again. He's old and set in his ways. There's a reason that saying, "You can't teach and old dog new tricks" has been around so long. It's not going to be worth the effort or risks you're going to have to take. Leave him at your parents, and don't try to work with him. At this point, he's like a 30 yr old kid that has been allowed to sleep all day and do what he wants. No way he's ever going to get out and go to work w/o a HUGE fight. Just wait and get yourself a nice horse and enjoy horses for a change. Hugs.
FWIW- as usual, I 100% agree with Diane |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| Longneck - 2014-02-19 9:30 AM
Thanks, everyone! I certainly don't want to keep letting him get away with his actions and let someone wind up hurt. It's just crazy, I've never seen a horse be so different when he's not in a power struggle. He will not leave you alone. My dad loves the horse and is perfectly okay with letting him die there someday, so I will just leave it at that and move on.
I'm usually one to always give the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I think this is a very smart decision. Go find one that is fun and enjoy riding!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| FlyingJT - 2014-02-19 11:45 AM
Just Let Me Run - 2014-02-19 10:32 AM I think a stud chain to keep his face towards you would be something good to try. But ny suggestion would be to go out like normal and start to lunge him. The absolute split second he starts to disobey, I would lay him down. At age 16, he's going to give you all his respect or none of it. Laying him down might be a good choice.
Ok, I have to really disagree with you! Don't lay a horse down, you accomplish nothing. It may work for dogs but a horse is a flight animal and laying one down does not show leadership, it will create fear and a load more problems. A horse is always looking for a leader or to be a leader and that leader has to get it through their language. Have you ever seen a horse lay down another horse to establish dominance and leadership... NO. You get respect through their feet.
My gelding puts all other geldings on the ground to show dominance. He about killed one before he finally got him off his feet, I was pretty happy one day when a new gelding did it back to him (That's about the time they tore down an entire pasture fence going through it). He is a really aggressive, dominant sucker though. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | My six yr old has started something simliar, luckily it hasn't happened (knock on wood) when I am on him. He is herd bound to my mare, and when he decides he doesnt want to leave her he will start flipping his head scare him self then throw himself up in the air, first time he did was last spring and my poor husband was just walking him for me before a race, he landed on a truck and knocked himself out. Then he tried it again over the summer, then here the other day I had put a stud chain on him because even though I fairly strong he at 16.2 12-1300 lbs is way stronger. He tried to pull away from and do his own **** when I went to lunge him. Thank goodness for that lunge line I was apply to flip him over. I figure if he tries it with me on him he will have one chance at the trainers ( I bought him from them) if he does it to them he is long gone. I will run him loose through a sale, or try to find some cowboy that wants him. |
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What About Me?
Posts: 5199
| I have a story for you that change my riding life, I would like to share with you
Back in 2000 I came in the possession of a big beautiful sorrel mare that had barrel horse all over her. She came with a story but with all things I was not there when things happened and I knew what I was doing because lets face it I was confidant and it was going to happen to me.. So here we go and with help from a trainer friend we went to work. I was so excited I was making progress hand over fist and this horse and I was starting to come together. Then the day came I had her back in the round pen I am not sure why, when my husband came home from work and came out to see how thing were going when she came after me on her hind feet striking at me with her front ears pinned and meaning business and the showdown was on. I learned really quick never to turn my back on her. and it only seamed to be me that she went after and only when I was on the ground (that's important)..
She was riding great and it was time to start hauling she would do everything I ask with ease and willingness. I was super excited she easy to be around..
Well the day that change my life and attitude came. it was a beautiful day the boys and the neighbor kids were out playing and riding bikes. I had taught my oldest son who was around 7 at the time to dial 911 if anything should ever happen..
So I was riding and the kids told me I was loping her when for some reason she started bucking (this was the first time she ever bucked with me) and I fell off Yep on the ground. the next thing I remember was waking up in the hospital with broken ribs, my back was jack 6 ways to monday, heal broken, and a concussion... she didn't just step on me she stomped on me. while in the hospital I complain that my hip hurt but they couldn't find any fractures but when I tried to walk I couldn't bare my weight.. so a few days after being released my husband carried my in to a chiropractor office and after a few visits I was able to start walking. basically she twisted my pelvic and it will never be the same.
Silly me I got back on I was not going to let her win. I am hard headed like that. I never rode her the same I never trusted her after that I had no reason to. well the final straw came when I haul to a race and she attached herself to a horse clear on the other side of the arena, we had never seen this horse did not haul with it didn't even know who owned it.. we made our run and coming out of the building she was on a mission to find that horse and she once again about killed me in the parking lot. needless to say I got her home and sold her.
I have had other horse since her but I have lost my confidence.. in 08 I ruptured the 2 disc that she originally injured. and I have been more fearfully ever since. I am telling you my story because this has change things for me a lot. I can put a good face me but inside I am dying.. a horse that has your number or that you just are not confidant on is just not worth it. so much can happen with a good easy horse to risk on one that can take your joy.. JMO |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | two2run - 2014-02-20 12:32 AM I have a story for you that change my riding life, I would like to share with you Back in 2000 I came in the possession of a big beautiful sorrel mare that had barrel horse all over her. She came with a story but with all things I was not there when things happened and I knew what I was doing because lets face it I was confidant and it was going to happen to me.. So here we go and with help from a trainer friend we went to work. I was so excited I was making progress hand over fist and this horse and I was starting to come together. Then the day came I had her back in the round pen I am not sure why, when my husband came home from work and came out to see how thing were going when she came after me on her hind feet striking at me with her front ears pinned and meaning business and the showdown was on. I learned really quick never to turn my back on her. and it only seamed to be me that she went after and only when I was on the ground (that's important).. She was riding great and it was time to start hauling she would do everything I ask with ease and willingness. I was super excited she easy to be around.. Well the day that change my life and attitude came. it was a beautiful day the boys and the neighbor kids were out playing and riding bikes. I had taught my oldest son who was around 7 at the time to dial 911 if anything should ever happen.. So I was riding and the kids told me I was loping her when for some reason she started bucking (this was the first time she ever bucked with me) and I fell off Yep on the ground. the next thing I remember was waking up in the hospital with broken ribs, my back was jack 6 ways to monday, heal broken, and a concussion... she didn't just step on me she stomped on me. while in the hospital I complain that my hip hurt but they couldn't find any fractures but when I tried to walk I couldn't bare my weight.. so a few days after being released my husband carried my in to a chiropractor office and after a few visits I was able to start walking. basically she twisted my pelvic and it will never be the same. Silly me I got back on I was not going to let her win. I am hard headed like that. I never rode her the same I never trusted her after that I had no reason to. well the final straw came when I haul to a race and she attached herself to a horse clear on the other side of the arena, we had never seen this horse did not haul with it didn't even know who owned it.. we made our run and coming out of the building she was on a mission to find that horse and she once again about killed me in the parking lot. needless to say I got her home and sold her. I have had other horse since her but I have lost my confidence.. in 08 I ruptured the 2 disc that she originally injured. and I have been more fearfully ever since. I am telling you my story because this has change things for me a lot. I can put a good face me but inside I am dying.. a horse that has your number or that you just are not confidant on is just not worth it. so much can happen with a good easy horse to risk on one that can take your joy.. JMO
Thank you for sharing this! This is the exact the thing I think I need to hear over and over again! |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I'm going to respectfully disagree on the age thing -- I firmly believe that age doesn't matter. I've seen it too many times.
I agree that it would be best that you stop working with him. You've got to be able to read a horse like this and be able to react accordingly and that's not happening. All this stuff that just "suddenly" happens actually starts a long time before and you have to be able to catch it then. What you may be reading as "in your pocket" horse may actually be his dominence. You can't just push a horse around a pen with a whip -- you've got to be able to read a horse's body language and fully read and understand their intentions and deal with it accordingly.
If you can't send him off, I'd see about getting someone out there to do a few lessons.
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Impressive!!
Posts: 1954
Location: Idaho | You know, Clinton Anderson just had a great video about this on RFDTV... an aggressive horse got the best of the trainer and owner and needed help. I've seen this too, moving their feet, forwards, backwards, left and right. Making the bad behavior work and the good behavoir rewarding. I think every horse is a different case. I personally have turned down horses that even though I might have been able to "fix" them... I would still be on a time limit and I had a good chance of getting hurt. I would let those horses go to a different trainer. But I've worked with plenty of "older" horses and have enjoy working with them and teaching them new training and skills. But the biggest thing to remember, you are #1. You are the most important. Never put yourself in harms way because of a **** horse. Be safe!  |
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Impressive!!
Posts: 1954
Location: Idaho | Longneck - 2014-02-18 6:38 PM I have a gelding that has not been messed with much in the past 7 1/2 years. Long story short (I've posted about it before if anyone remembers) he reared up with me and flipped over top and I pretty much just walked away from anything to do with horses.
The gelding (he'll be 16 next month) still pulls his rearing up issues with me whenever I try to ride him so I've set up a round pen in hopes of kinda wearing him down before I ride him. Well, he lunged okay-ish for about 3-4 minutes the first time we (my husband has been trying to help me when he has time) worked with him and then he just stopped. He would not give me his feet and constantly faced me and mimicked my every footstep instead of being respectful and letting me be #1. (he's had my number for years!)
After a couple of times of trying to lunge him and not getting anywhere I gave up. This weekened I happened to watch Clinton Anderson's episode on aggressive horses and I thought maybe if I just went in with a lunge whip and no halter or leadrope that he would move for me. Well, yet again, he moved good for about 3/4ths of a lap around the pen and just stopped and turned away from me (I'm pretty sure he would have tried to kick). He then tried to jump out of the round pen!!! I might not would have minded too much if it wasn't just some portable panels set up, but he could do some serious damage to both himself and the panels if I would have kept trying to move him. He would finally turn around and began his mimicking tactics of not giving me his feet and continuing his disrespect. I left him be for about 30 minutes and came back to try and work with him again and he immediately started trying to jump over (the panels are about 5 1/5 tall) again so I wound up just letting him out.
I'm at my wits end with this horse. If you aren't trying to make him mind he is the most gentle, in your pocket type of horse. I'm not really even wanting to ride him anymore at this point, I just don't want to lose and I know it's not right to let him win.
Ok, I'm an idiot, I didn't even read your post!!! LOL. I agree with everyone else, send him down the road. Again, you are #1. Don't get hurt over a horse. You already did, trust me, it will be better if you send him down the road! Anyways, that was a good episode from Clinton huh?? |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Fairweather - 2014-02-20 7:29 PM
I'm going to respectfully disagree on the age thing -- I firmly believe that age doesn't matter. I've seen it too many times.
I agree that it would be best that you stop working with him. You've got to be able to read a horse like this and be able to react accordingly and that's not happening. All this stuff that just "suddenly" happens actually starts a long time before and you have to be able to catch it then. What you may be reading as "in your pocket" horse may actually be his dominence. You can't just push a horse around a pen with a whip -- you've got to be able to read a horse's body language and fully read and understand their intentions and deal with it accordingly.
If you can't send him off, I'd see about getting someone out there to do a few lessons.
He definitely had a bad start when I got him and I know that I probably let him get away with more and more as time went on. He wouldn't even break out of a trot without bucking! My dad said he was just feeling good (he's not a horse guy) and he'd be fine after he got rode a little. I was 12/13 and had no clue. Kept riding him and I'm sure all kinds of red flags were flying and we never saw them. I never did any kind of round pen work and didn't understand the basics of reading a horse. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | flyhperformancehorse - 2014-02-20 8:09 PM
Longneck - 2014-02-18 6:38 PM I have a gelding that has not been messed with much in the past 7 1/2 years. Long story short (I've posted about it before if anyone remembers) he reared up with me and flipped over top and I pretty much just walked away from anything to do with horses.
The gelding (he'll be 16 next month) still pulls his rearing up issues with me whenever I try to ride him so I've set up a round pen in hopes of kinda wearing him down before I ride him. Well, he lunged okay-ish for about 3-4 minutes the first time we (my husband has been trying to help me when he has time) worked with him and then he just stopped. He would not give me his feet and constantly faced me and mimicked my every footstep instead of being respectful and letting me be #1. (he's had my number for years!)
After a couple of times of trying to lunge him and not getting anywhere I gave up. This weekened I happened to watch Clinton Anderson's episode on aggressive horses and I thought maybe if I just went in with a lunge whip and no halter or leadrope that he would move for me. Well, yet again, he moved good for about 3/4ths of a lap around the pen and just stopped and turned away from me (I'm pretty sure he would have tried to kick). He then tried to jump out of the round pen!!! I might not would have minded too much if it wasn't just some portable panels set up, but he could do some serious damage to both himself and the panels if I would have kept trying to move him. He would finally turn around and began his mimicking tactics of not giving me his feet and continuing his disrespect. I left him be for about 30 minutes and came back to try and work with him again and he immediately started trying to jump over (the panels are about 5 1/5 tall) again so I wound up just letting him out.
I'm at my wits end with this horse. If you aren't trying to make him mind he is the most gentle, in your pocket type of horse. I'm not really even wanting to ride him anymore at this point, I just don't want to lose and I know it's not right to let him win.
Ok, I'm an idiot, I didn't even read your post!!! LOL. I agree with everyone else, send him down the road. Again, you are #1. Don't get hurt over a horse. You already did, trust me, it will be better if you send him down the road! Anyways, that was a good episode from Clinton huh??
Very good episode! He makes it all look so easy!! |
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