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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
 
| This is wasting time and money. It should have never been an issue. If you want that kind care, don't get a job at Hobby Lobby. | |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
 
Location: Sperry, OK | RidenFly - 2014-03-26 1:53 PM This is wasting time and money. It should have never been an issue. If you want that kind care, don't get a job at Hobby Lobby.
It's not the employees, it's the company making the fuss. | |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| barrelracr131 - 2014-03-26 11:36 AM Whiteboy - 2014-03-26 11:10 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-03-26 10:35 AM BTW, I do get what you are saying JB. They can pay out of pocket. For some that is cost prohibitive, hence the argument. To me their lines in the sand seem arbitrary, due to my reasons above. I think allowing employers what they will or will not cover based on "belief" is somewhat arbitrary as well. I could say I'm part of XYZ church and we don't support cancer treatments because cancer is "holy". Who determines what beliefs are "legitimate" and which ones are crackpot? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Keep that in mind... I think there is always those that abuse the system, but in general religion is not arbitrary. They are beliefs that are based on principle rather than policy. Usually religion is in line with science. Mormons(my religion) believe that you shouldn't smoke, smoking has also been scientificaly proven to be harmful. All this is easy to criticize until it is YOUR moral values that are being compromised. What about when they decide it is too expensive on the system to maintaine the life of mentally handicaped children, and your child is mentally handicaped. This is an extreme example but this is a very slippery slope. I think I was unclear on what I found to be arbitrary. I was referring to the science aspect.... Medically, pregnancy does not begin until implantation. Plan B prevents implantation. (BTW I was wrong before, Oral BC prevents ovulation, not implantation, as the objective ). So I guess they feel any fertilized egg is considered the beginning of life, then? Do they also plan to refuse coverage of IVF, preimplantation genetics, and embryo storage? As part of IVF, eggs are fertilized and then only some of the eggs are implanted. The rest of the embryos are stored for potential later use. So technically, that would probably be against their beliefs as well. In a way, not covering these procedures really does "force" some people not to use these treatments, due to cost. This is where I kind of agree that it does force beliefs upon another person, to some degree. I mean sure, they can work elsewhere, etc etc. Realistically though, it will effect people. IDK, I can see both sides of this case, honestly. I can see wishing to not contribute to something you feel is against personal belief... Its not like I don't understand why they feel as they do, even if I don't share the belief. Then the other aspect comes in of the government choosing which religious based demands to honor in terms of plan exclusions. You can't really say the Christians Scientists are not a legit religion, or Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. Even though they are in the minority and their views differ from many other faiths. Personally, I think the ACA is just a giant mess.... the end. I'm really not disagreeing with HL's view. I think in the end, they will just pay the penalty and refuse to offer insurance.... but I do think they will lose the case. I could be wrong though, it's happened more than once.
Edited by Whiteboy 2014-03-27 8:06 PM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Whiteboy - 2014-03-27 8:03 PM barrelracr131 - 2014-03-26 11:36 AM Whiteboy - 2014-03-26 11:10 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-03-26 10:35 AM BTW, I do get what you are saying JB. They can pay out of pocket. For some that is cost prohibitive, hence the argument. To me their lines in the sand seem arbitrary, due to my reasons above. I think allowing employers what they will or will not cover based on "belief" is somewhat arbitrary as well. I could say I'm part of XYZ church and we don't support cancer treatments because cancer is "holy". Who determines what beliefs are "legitimate" and which ones are crackpot? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. Keep that in mind... I think there is always those that abuse the system, but in general religion is not arbitrary. They are beliefs that are based on principle rather than policy. Usually religion is in line with science. Mormons(my religion) believe that you shouldn't smoke, smoking has also been scientificaly proven to be harmful. All this is easy to criticize until it is YOUR moral values that are being compromised. What about when they decide it is too expensive on the system to maintaine the life of mentally handicaped children, and your child is mentally handicaped. This is an extreme example but this is a very slippery slope. I think I was unclear on what I found to be arbitrary. I was referring to the science aspect.... Medically, pregnancy does not begin until implantation. Plan B prevents implantation. (BTW I was wrong before, Oral BC prevents ovulation, not implantation, as the objective ). So I guess they feel any fertilized egg is considered the beginning of life, then? Do they also plan to refuse coverage of IVF, preimplantation genetics, and embryo storage? As part of IVF, eggs are fertilized and then only some of the eggs are implanted. The rest of the embryos are stored for potential later use. So technically, that would probably be against their beliefs as well. In a way, not covering these procedures really does "force" some people not to use these treatments, due to cost. This is where I kind of agree that it does force beliefs upon another person, to some degree. I mean sure, they can work elsewhere, etc etc. Realistically though, it will effect people. IDK, I can see both sides of this case, honestly. I can see wishing to not contribute to something you feel is against personal belief... Its not like I don't understand why they feel as they do, even if I don't share the belief. Then the other aspect comes in of the government choosing which religious based demands to honor in terms of plan exclusions. You can't really say the Christians Scientists are not a legit religion, or Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. Even though they are in the minority and their views differ from many other faiths. Personally, I think the ACA is just a giant mess.... the end. I'm really not disagreeing with HL's view. I think in the end, they will just pay the penalty and refuse to offer insurance.... but I do think they will lose the case. I could be wrong though, it's happened more than once.
I am curious how much they are paying in insurance per employee, and what the difference would be.
Honestly even though I do not necessarily believe the same things, it is good to see a company standing up against the government for what they believe in. | |
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