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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
   
Location: North Dakota | Red is a coming 8-year-old gelding. I bought him in May of 2012. Just last fall, I finally started asking him for just a little bit of speed on the barrel pattern. This was the last run we did last fall. As you can see, he was cross-firing in back during his turns.
http://youtu.be/CeZxCFd89d8
Took him to my lameness vet who diagnosed him with a catching stifle in his right hind. We didn't do much for treatment last fall, since we were pretty much done for the year.
Fast forward to this year. I was able to start riding him every day once daylight savings time went into effect. Chiro checked him 2 weeks ago. Was a little out in his poll and wither but it is better than he has been. Took him to the lameness vet a week and a half ago (also had his teeth done) and got his stifle injected with hyvisc and triamcinolone. She told me to start running barrels with him and see how he does.
It's been too slippery outside yet to do much of anything (barrel-wise), so I hauled to an indoor arena this morning. This really is the first time he has worked the barrels since last fall. I just combined the galloping portions of my practice together in this video. I just did some random pattern barrel drills and then I "ran" the pattern twice. I see some turns that his footwork looked good .... and some that he still looks sore (at least I think). I will be emailing the video to my vet as well to get her opinion.
http://youtu.be/rf23-JC2FEs
Now he does have a slight front end lameness that is remedied by shoeing. I took him to the farrier AFTER our barrel practicing the morning. Would have liked to work the barrels with his shoes on, but that's just when the arena was available. I plan on taking him to a local barrel race in 1 week. Hopefully I can find somebody to video for me.
Anyway, I know that I also am making lots of mistakes with him, as the rider. I haven't turned a barrel since last fall either. And I'm riding in a new saddle. So I am sure there are things I am doing wrong that I need to do better. Please don't be rude, but do tell me if you see something I need to change.
Thoughts? ( On the horse and on my riding. )
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Honestly, I don't think the horse is in good enough shape to be going to a barrel race in one week, especially if he already has issues. |
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | I think he looks sticky I'm his back end when turning right . I agree with Cheryl too that he doesn't seem fit enough for a barrel race next week. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Cheryl and FirstFirewater - Are you both saying he is not "fit" to barrel race based on his looks? If so, let me just say that he is not a running-type-looking horse. He'll never have that sucked up belly looked. It's just not his conformation. I agree that he can still lose a few pounds, but he is certainly not obese.
I'm viewing the barrel race next week as a practice for him. We are actually supposed to get snow tonight which is going to continue making working the barrels at home where I board impossible. By hauling him to an indoor race, I can exhibition and "run" him to help him continue to get into better shape for barrels. I'm certainly not going with the mindset to try to win the barrel race.
I ride him a minimum of 4 miles a day; usually closer to 6. Trotting and loping most of the way with adequate warm up and cool down. I do large circles when I find a safe place to do so, with the ground conditions being what they are. I also have been able to breeze him the last week or two, finding a safe place to do it.
I appreciate your concern. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 503
| Not sure how someone can tell from a video the horses breathing rate and heart rate to tell if he's fit or not. If you're just viewing it as practice, I see nothing wrong with getting him out to see the sites. |
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Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | r_beau - 2014-03-30 7:58 PM
Cheryl and FirstFirewater - Are you both saying he is not "fit" to barrel race based on his looks? If so, let me just say that he is not a running-type-looking horse. He'll never have that sucked up belly looked. It's just not his conformation. I agree that he can still lose a few pounds, but he is certainly not obese.
I'm viewing the barrel race next week as a practice for him. We are actually supposed to get snow tonight which is going to continue making working the barrels at home where I board impossible. By hauling him to an indoor race, I can exhibition and "run" him to help him continue to get into better shape for barrels. I'm certainly not going with the mindset to try to win the barrel race.
I ride him a minimum of 4 miles a day; usually closer to 6. Trotting and loping most of the way with adequate warm up and cool down. I do large circles when I find a safe place to do so, with the ground conditions being what they are. I also have been able to breeze him the last week or two, finding a safe place to do it.
I appreciate your concern.
No I'm certainly not saying confirmation wise he doesn't look good for barrels. I was saying he just looks like he could be more fit which will obviously help in the long run. In both videos though he comes off of second wide. Best of luck in trying to find arenas to practice in :) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| I agree that the horse does look sticky going to the right, as well. If you watch the video, he will "prop" and kind of pop the two legs together when that right hind should be bearing all the weight. As far as the new saddle/first week of riding, etc...keep at it and do lots of slow work or off pattern work. (I know it's hard to "practice" with a new saddle when you can't practice.) |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | he looks sore. how was his hocks? alot of times they go hand in hand.. Also you may be overdoing the miles of loping and Trotting .. 6 miles a day is alot but
with that said id incorporate slow work in the week...when you get him healed.
Id do suppling exercises and get him to really be bendable and stay with you .. he drifts and isnt really bending .. his neck is though.. thats just how I see it anyway.i like his build he looks cowbred to me..
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Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-30 9:15 PM
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Bibliafarm - 2014-03-30 8:07 PM he looks sore. how was his hocks? alot of times they go hand in hand.. Also you may be overdoing the miles of loping and Trotting .. 6 miles a day is alot but
with that said id incorporate slow work in the week...when you get him healed.
Id do suppling exercises and get him to really be bendable and stay with you .. he drifts and isnt really bending .. his neck is though.. thats just how I see it anyway.i like his build he looks cowbred to me..
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I agree with this..... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| r_beau - 2014-03-30 7:58 PM
Cheryl and FirstFirewater - Are you both saying he is not "fit" to barrel race based on his looks? If so, let me just say that he is not a running-type-looking horse. He'll never have that sucked up belly looked. It's just not his conformation. I agree that he can still lose a few pounds, but he is certainly not obese.
I'm viewing the barrel race next week as a practice for him. We are actually supposed to get snow tonight which is going to continue making working the barrels at home where I board impossible. By hauling him to an indoor race, I can exhibition and "run" him to help him continue to get into better shape for barrels. I'm certainly not going with the mindset to try to win the barrel race.
I ride him a minimum of 4 miles a day; usually closer to 6. Trotting and loping most of the way with adequate warm up and cool down. I do large circles when I find a safe place to do so, with the ground conditions being what they are. I also have been able to breeze him the last week or two, finding a safe place to do it.
I appreciate your concern.
I am going by muscle tone, I like to see more. All my horses are exercised 4-5 days a week for 3 months before they turn a barrel, I don't even do drills.
If I have a sticky stifle, I back up hills, trot over logs, long trot to strengthen the stifle.
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| He definetly looks sore. Left hind leg. Do you know of anyone with a laser or that has a Theraplate? You might also have his hocks checked and whirlbone. A lot of times one being sore in a stifle they will become sore in the opposite hock and whirlbone from compensating. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | readytorodeo - 2014-03-31 5:01 AM He definetly looks sore. Left hind leg. Do you know of anyone with a laser or that has a Theraplate? You might also have his hocks checked and whirlbone. A lot of times one being sore in a stifle they will become sore in the opposite hock and whirlbone from compensating.
Ditto I saw left hock too. I can't tell if the head shaking is the bit or pain.... |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | FirstFireWater - Him coming off the 2nd barrel wide is completely my fault. As I was practicing yesterday, he definately wanted to turn that barrel too soon. I need to do a better job of pushing him past so he has room to make the turn. And I'm not really 100% sure what's happening, as I feel I somtimes had to "pull" him around to finish the turns, and sometimes he resisted by shaking his head. Maybe I need to maintain steady contact throughout the turn so I can guide him better at the end? Or ... maybe he was just having a hard time being it was his first time working the barrels in the long time?? I'm still tryiing to figure him out and figure out if it is true soreness, or if he's going to get better as he rebuilds his muscles for barrels.
RodeoCowgirl4U: Yes I agree with you.
-Barrel Drill to the left his footwork seemed fine (minus the fact we left the barrel wide)
-Barrel Drill to the right, the far barrel he seemed to turn nicely. The near barrel he lost it in back.
-2nd drill to the right, the far barrel he might have had a little hitch (hard to see) even though he turned okay, but swapped his leads. As we came up to the near barrel I knew he was on the wrong lead, but I sent him at it anyway in hopes he would "figure it out". He did switch. Honestly, I think he lost it there because of me. I didn't help him enough going into the turn and he also turned too soon.
-Barrel Run 1 (2nd barrel) he pushed off of both back legs on the backside of the turn, instead of keeping his inside leg underneath him. I don't like that. Either something still hurts or he just needs more conditioning on the pattern itself.
-Barrel run 2 (3rd barrel) he switched his leads coming out of the turn. I felt like I really had to TURN him on the backside of the turn and I don't know if I caused him to flip, or if he flipped because he's sore.
Bibliafarm: Thus far, the vet has said his hocks are fine. And he had a full lameness eval on the 19th.
Yes, I ride him a lot of miles but he has a lot of energy (and still a few more pounds to lose). Basically he needs the miles. He's like the energizer bunny and just keeps going and going and ....  (The only exception is indoors. He is a dead fish indoors. He'd just prefer to stand there and not do a thing in an indoor. Totally opposite of how he is outside.) I normally like to do lots of bending and circles when I ride, which helps me control his speed and keep him at a relaxed pace, but I just haven't been able to with the ground. Even if I make a large circle and allow him to do a nice collected trot, I still feel him slipping and I can see it on the ground. The top layer of soil is thawed but the rest isn't. And we are currently in the blizzard warning (no joke) so that's going to screw up the ground some more. So most of what I have been doing is straight lines, unless I can find a somewhat safe (and dry) place to trot and lope some circles. I can and do walk circles and bend him, but of course that's something you should do at all gaits.
On a positive note, he did feel better to me in his barrel practice than he did last year. Although we certainly still have improvements to make, I felt he was pushing off his hind end better. But I agree that we need more work on getting him to bend throughout his entire body and not just his neck.
ReadyToRodeo: So you think the left hind? Interesting. I actually did a Theraplate session on him the day of his injection because my vet has one. Whirlbone ... what is that?
HammerTime: I don't think his head shaking would be from the bit. He just had his teeth floated on the 19th. When I work the barrels, I use a Carol GooseTree simplicity bit. Unfortunately, that leaves the alternative being in his back end.
Edited by r_beau 2014-03-31 9:06 AM
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| Everyone is saying left but I see it on the right. LOL. I am going to agree he doesn't appear fit. And it has nothing to do with weight or heart rate it has to do with his carriage. He looks as if he is "laboring" to get the work done and you're not asking for much. The little big of head shake can mean anything but it looks like he can't quite extend the right leg when you leave second.
I know none of this is what you want to hear but if I were you, I'd wait to enter him, I'd maybe trot a few exhibitions, and get him out but I wouldn't enter a big race on this guy. *yet* Good luck and let us know how he progresses. He's a pretty guy. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | RidenFly - 2014-03-31 9:04 AM Everyone is saying left but I see it on the right. LOL. I am going to agree he doesn't appear fit. And it has nothing to do with weight or heart rate it has to do with his carriage. He looks as if he is "laboring" to get the work done and you're not asking for much. The little big of head shake can mean anything but it looks like he can't quite extend the right leg when you leave second.
I know none of this is what you want to hear but if I were you, I'd wait to enter him, I'd maybe trot a few exhibitions, and get him out but I wouldn't enter a big race on this guy. *yet* Good luck and let us know how he progresses. He's a pretty guy.
The "laboring" you are seeing could maybe be due to the fact that he is LAZY indoors. I have to literally use my whole body to keep him loping when we are indoors. The very instant I "stop riding" he stops. He would just prefer to stand there when indoors; especially at this arena.  It just blows my mind because when I ride him outside (the majority of our riding), he sometimes doesn't even want to walk ... much less stand. He would be happy as a clam if I let him fast lope everywhere. 
Big race? Oh heavens no. This is a small local jackpot i'm planning on taking him to. Again, just a good opportunity for me to haul to an indoor and work him on the pattern.
I too think it is his right leg. He seems to have more trouble with his right turns. I wish I would have set my video camera on his right barrel turn (on the two "runs" I made on him) but I didn't want to overdo it that day. On both of the run-throughs, he did get past my first barrel a little bit but I am okay with that since he has the tendency to rate and turn too soon. Easier to tigthen a turn than the opposite. |
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Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| r_beau - 2014-04-01 7:13 AM RidenFly - 2014-03-31 9:04 AM Everyone is saying left but I see it on the right. LOL. I am going to agree he doesn't appear fit. And it has nothing to do with weight or heart rate it has to do with his carriage. He looks as if he is "laboring" to get the work done and you're not asking for much. The little big of head shake can mean anything but it looks like he can't quite extend the right leg when you leave second.
I know none of this is what you want to hear but if I were you, I'd wait to enter him, I'd maybe trot a few exhibitions, and get him out but I wouldn't enter a big race on this guy. *yet* Good luck and let us know how he progresses. He's a pretty guy. The "laboring" you are seeing could maybe be due to the fact that he is LAZY indoors. I have to literally use my whole body to keep him loping when we are indoors. The very instant I "stop riding" he stops. He would just prefer to stand there when indoors; especially at this arena. It just blows my mind because when I ride him outside (the majority of our riding), he sometimes doesn't even want to walk ... much less stand. He would be happy as a clam if I let him fast lope everywhere.
Big race? Oh heavens no. This is a small local jackpot i'm planning on taking him to. Again, just a good opportunity for me to haul to an indoor and work him on the pattern.
I too think it is his right leg. He seems to have more trouble with his right turns. I wish I would have set my video camera on his right barrel turn (on the two "runs" I made on him) but I didn't want to overdo it that day. On both of the run-throughs, he did get past my first barrel a little bit but I am okay with that since he has the tendency to rate and turn too soon. Easier to tigthen a turn than the opposite.
Check his right hip. *my purely unprofessional opinion* |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | To me he looks unbalanced and not fit enough and by fit enough I don't mean lung capacity, I mean muscle strength to hold balanced turns, to be turning the way you want him to turn. He is plunking himself on his front end and flopping like a fish. Give him some room and teach him to rock back on his hocks and drive forward through the turn.
If you've run him with sore stifles sometimes they need to be reminded that it isn't going to hurt, but you've got to make it easy for him. For a few days I'll reinforce rate, shape, forward through the turn. Keep him off those turns a little and balance him. If he just flat refuses to come back to your hands and seat I'd be heading back to the vet. I know with mine I do get the best results by injecting hocks as well and that might just do the trick for you.
When they are sore in their stifles they become real stiff laterally and I see a lot of that in your horse. There is more to softness than just getting the head and neck; it has to follow through the ribcage and hip too. You don't need a circle to get one soft laterally, lots of side passing, counterarcing, moving hips and shoulders will help loosen him up. At least it does for mine and you can do all of that at a walk or even unsaddled in his stall.
If he were mine I'd set him up for success and do more slow work before I even thought of entering. JMO. |
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