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Veteran
Posts: 160
 
| My sister has a gelding that acts in no way like a gelding. She wants me to get him ready to ride just on trails but i gotta say its quite the job! I round penned him then rode him in there and he would still holler at horses, slightly nervous and not to mention his manhood is out the WHOLE time!! So i took him outside of the roundpen to ride and see how he acted...way more nervous, pranced whole time so i did lots of flexing bending and tons of circles. He threw a few bucks and i got after him and he stopped but i feel like this horse never once searched for the RELEASE of pressure...ever. I spent 3 hrs on him and think i had 3 mins all together of his attention. Please help with tips or ideas.
Ok so after convincing my sister to call the vet and get a test done she did....results are in...the level of testosterone in a gelding is 5, stallion is 10, my sisters HORSE is 20!!!! THAT EXPLAINS IT LOL!!!
I think he never got cut and must be storing someone else's up there too! Big surprise he was an Amish horse......mmmh? 
Edited by paturninburnin89 2014-05-13 10:24 PM
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
  
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I'm a firm believer that if you can't get their attention on the ground, you're not going to get it under saddle -- especially a horse that's as unfocused as he is. I wouldn't even think about stepping up until he was relaxed and focused on me and not everything else. That's just part of the foundation of anything you do, IMO.
Working on the ground isn't just about pushing their feet around or wearing them out to get their attention. It's about seeing how light you can be when you ask for something and see if you can get them to want to give you your attention. Yes, you can move their feet around and wear off some of that energy but don't get so focused on wearing him out that you forget to look for other signs he's giving.
If a horse is having a hard time looking for a release then I need to look harder at his response and how I'm asking. Sometimes that give is so subtle we don't see it and that's where you have to start - where and how they're giving. And sometimes that means breaking it down even more too.
Too, I would get in the mindset of interupting thoughts. When you just feel him starting to think about something else, immediately ask him to do something that requires him to think, not just move forward. Ask him to move sideways or do a half pass. Things like that are much more effective than running around in circles or even just changing directions a lot.
It never hurts to look at the turnout and nutrition side of it too. Those can play a big role in a horse being over-active and hard to focus.
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | Groundwork- I am imagining your horse behaves somewhat like this one (And for $25 you can watch the ENTIRE training session from groundwork to riding on his website). I subscribe to his videos and the difference in the horses is amazing. No product endorsements and he breaks it down even simpler to me than the other clinicians do. But here is the youtube video where he shows the problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eezd-2uq4OM |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | If he was not ground working well, there's no need to ride him. If he's not riding inside the round pen well, there's no need to ride him outside the round pen. Accomplish one thing before you keep throwing more and more at him. The Warwick Schiller videos posted above are great to watch. |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| Thank you everyone!! I 110% agree and got a lot of great imput. Like i said its my sisters horse and i wanted to just do groundwork but she really wanted to see how he would do riding. I explained to her when doing it if this was my horse i would easily spend 2 weeks atleast of just groundwork before ever riding him. Im going to check into those videos im always trying to better my skills.
I really took to heart the release part...maybe he is releasing and its the slightest try and i have to really look for that tiny piece.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | paturninburnin89 - 2014-04-18 6:55 AM Thank you everyone!! I 110% agree and got a lot of great imput. Like i said its my sisters horse and i wanted to just do groundwork but she really wanted to see how he would do riding. I explained to her when doing it if this was my horse i would easily spend 2 weeks atleast of just groundwork before ever riding him. Im going to check into those videos im always trying to better my skills. I really took to heart the release part...maybe he is releasing and its the slightest try and i have to really look for that tiny piece. 2 weeks is not enough time to get him emotionally where he needs to be. Working energy off is great but it doesnt serve any purpose or tire them out mentally.. he needs to work mentally as well.. make him focus and by that I mean.. mentally listening to you and only you. You can achieve that by working him in a way that makes him think about what he is doing.. transitions, suppling , deep.. work his hind end. lateral work...trot poles.. get him longlining .. thinking about what is being asked. working them mentally and slowly and using his muscles will wear him out and make him focus.if you dont know how to longline.. get someone that does to help you.
also his nutrition is important.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-04-18 7:54 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| I feel your pain! I have a young proud cut gelding and our first few months together were a nightmare! Everyone has offered great advice about getting the respect and attention on the ground first, it may take a while but it is vital. Give him a job mentally, not just physically. I had luck with bitting him up and making him go over ground poles and small obstacles. He was too busy paying attention where his feet were that the yelling and goofiness eventually stopped and his attention was on his job.
I also use a magnesium supplement to help! There are plenty of good posts on here about magnesium and it helping calm horses down. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | How do you know he's "proud cut"? Being proud cut has an actual medical solution. There's a sack inside the horses body that produces hormones that make them act like a stallion even though their testicles may be gone. Have you had a vet look at this horse? Is he a cryptorchid or monorchid? He may not have been gelded properly which will never be solved without medical intervention.
I would start by having the problem taken care so he doesn't act like a fruitcake. If he's not proud cut then he is what he is and is not likely to change a great deal unless it's some other medical problem. You have to get to the root of the problem and get it resolved. Good luck.  |
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 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
Location: Oregon | OregonBR - 2014-04-18 12:03 PM How do you know he's "proud cut"? Being proud cut has an actual medical solution. There's a sack inside the horses body that produces hormones that make them act like a stallion even though their testicles may be gone. Have you had a vet look at this horse? Is he a cryptorchid or monorchid? He may not have been gelded properly which will never be solved without medical intervention.
I would start by having the problem taken care so he doesn't act like a fruitcake. If he's not proud cut then he is what he is and is not likely to change a great deal unless it's some other medical problem. You have to get to the root of the problem and get it resolved. Good luck.
I have a gelding that will act like he is proud cut. He is not. I was present when he was gelded at 3. The vet got all on both sides..testicle, cord and squeeler. INTACT and showed them to me to prove that if he retained some of his behavior it was not because he was proud cut. He is a gentleman around people and never displays those when being handled but out in the pasture you would think he is still a stallion.
What everyone above said. Groundwork until you know you have his total respect and attention on the ground. Then move on to riding in the roundpen. Try and explain to your sister that in order to make a good horse it takes time and you want to make him the best horse for her. Good luck!
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | My point was, if he's just an ass, then he's not necessarily proud cut. That is a term for a gelding that wasn't gelded properly. I had a gelding that I know was gelded properly as well. He was just an ass. Can you tell I didn't like him?  |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | OregonBR - 2014-04-18 3:36 PM My point was, if he's just an ass, then he's not necessarily proud cut. That is a term for a gelding that wasn't gelded properly. I had a gelding that I know was gelded properly as well. He was just an ass. Can you tell I didn't like him?
Amen!
We had a horse come to us, same deal, he was an idiot. What it took to get his attention was not nice. He was never a horse I would have trusted. But the owner loved him, I loved him when he left.
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| Sounds to me like he has your number. Very few if any horses are proud cut nowadays. Sounds to me like he has been allowed to act this way and continues to do it. Too many nice riding horses around to put up with this kind of behavior. Don't get hurt. It is not worth it. Most stallions that I am around are not allowed to act like this. |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| I think some of you missed the part where I said he IS NOT MY HORSE..hes my sisters. She doesnt keep her horse on my property he is actually alone in a pasture by himself because he will hurt other horses. I was trying to get peoples input on here because there are a ton of very well educated horse women on here :) If i had him I would work him and do it the right way (but then again i probably wouldn't keep a horse like this around). She wanted me to pretty much do a miracle so she could begin trail riding him and i explained he NEEDS A TON OF WORK AND TIME which she is a total green rider and also lacks the time...I know the difference between silly geldings and proud cut. I have a silly gelding but he is no where near acting like a proud cut. She was told from the people she bought him from that he was a proud cut, he was gelded around 7 or 8 and was used for breeding..not really sure why she bought him but she didnt ask anyones advice just liked how he looked.
Thank you for everyone who gave me good tips and helpful advice !!! I am going to tell her to ask the Vet about it and see if theres something they could do? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Yes you need to talk to a good vet and let him know the problem with this horse, and another thing too its even worst to keep them isolated from other horses, this horse has no manners at all it seems, I think I would send him down the road if hes as bad as he sounds, befor one of y'all get hurt. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| There is no miracle cure, hard work and determination the horse may come around, but this is not a horse for a green rider.
I have rode horses gelded after 10 years, and they didn't act like dinks.
Proud cut is not the term for gelding later on in life, if the horse is truly proud cut, the vet would need to surgically remove what was left. I believe it is quite expensive.
If I were in your shoes
I would tell the person there was no miracle cure, and that I am not the person for the job (family should never work for family), I would give recommendations of great trainers in the area, and explain to her that it will probably cost anywhere from 1500-2100 to get the horse broke enough where she can jump on and trail ride.
I would also tell her if she wants help finding a nice reliable trail horse, I can make a few calls and see if anyone knows of any. |
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