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| My gelding has progressively started to do this and it has gotten worse. To the point that it completely sets us up wrong for the next barrel and has slowed his times. He is throwing his head up after turning 1st and 2nd. 3rd is not as bad but he does do it sometimes on 3rd. I am having his teeth done this weeks to rule that out.
Any other ideas on what could be causing this? Possibly training or behavior things? He has run barrels for a long time but does not get run every weekend and has actually had a lot of time off recently. He knows his job and doesn't require much "tuning" on the pattern because he tends to get hot, but at this point something needs to be done/fixed.
Thanks for any input!! |
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| http://youtu.be/6Xi7L6AugJ0
Video from this weekend, you can see how he trows his head at first and second. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| It is hard to see from the video, but I would get his hocks, stifle, and si joints checked out as something is bugging him in the hind end, he is not holding the lead around the entire barrel, he is swishing the tail which is a sign of hock pain. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2014-04-20 9:51 AM
It is hard to see from the video, but I would get his hocks, stifle, and si joints checked out as something is bugging him in the hind end, he is not holding the lead around the entire barrel, he is swishing the tail which is a sign of hock pain.
Thanks, I actually just had him checked out a few months ago and vet said he did not see any signs pointing to pain or issues, but I did go ahead and have his hocks done anyway. He has always swished his tail. He does have a tilted pelvis which requires him to be chiro'ed regularly..I believe it's about time for it again. But as for the head throwing, I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| Ouchie ouchie ouchie! Definitely needs to go get checked out by vet. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Teeth and if you get heavy handed coming around on inside rein it hurts. imho..
he does look sore in hind as well |
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| Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 9:59 AM
Teeth and if you get heavy handed coming around on inside rein it hurts. imho..
he does look sore in hind as well
He could be sore in the hind from his pelvis needing adjusted, plan to have both his teeth and a adjustment done this week. He's never been one to really 'tuck' himself up around a barrel so sometimes it's hard to tell when he is hurting besides a change in his times. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Rustynailfl - 2014-04-20 8:57 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-04-20 9:51 AM
It is hard to see from the video, but I would get his hocks, stifle, and si joints checked out as something is bugging him in the hind end, he is not holding the lead around the entire barrel, he is swishing the tail which is a sign of hock pain.
Thanks, I actually just had him checked out a few months ago and vet said he did not see any signs pointing to pain or issues, but I did go ahead and have his hocks done anyway. He has always swished his tail. He does have a tilted pelvis which requires him to be chiro'ed regularly..I believe it's about time for it again. But as for the head throwing, I'm not quite sure where this is coming from.
If you have started injections it usually only lasts about 3 months and you will need to keep going back.
If the horses pelvis goes out frequently, then he is compensating for pain somewhere. I believe a pain free horses will not need chiro adjustments, and so far my horses haven't proved me wrong. I get my horses checked by chiro a few times a year, the only one who had hip problems has shot hocks.
I would suggest taking your horse to a good lameness vet have the vet do flexion tests, blocks and X-rays, this will be a 2-3 hour appointment |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I also noticed he looks sore on his hind. He also came in on the wrong lead. Check other videos you have and see if that is a common thing or something new. He's swapping his lead right at the barrel which is throwing off your first barrel slightly as well.
If his pelvis is out once he's adjusted see if that helps. Also I'd suggest having him checked all over as the head tossing may also be throwing him out somewhere else. Also check your saddle fit. You never know if something is pinching him or bugging him.
Hope you get it sorted out :) |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | If he's throwing his head up and not holding his lead around the barrel, I would encourage you to get his SI and stifles checked out. Those are the things my gray horse was doing earlier this year and it took a while for a vet to find the SI pain but we finally got that injected and he's better, but still not completely 100% so now I'm on the hunt to figure out if the rest of the soreness is stifles or hocks.
Diane Guinn is good at ID'ing hind end pain - she has been spot on with every horse of mine she's watched in a video - and she says the SI pain will not go away with rest, it usually has to be injected. |
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| http://youtu.be/n5eWg9spO04
I'm hoping this video is viewable. This was in 2011, 9th in the 1D.. It'll show the way he runs. I of course didn't do much of anything on him but sit their lol This was about close to a year after I got him. Now he is running 3D times... |
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| Could not view 2nd video but framed to frame the first one ...
I think rider has picked up some bad habits and/or changed bits or bit fit has a problem too ...
Rider is leaning in on all three barrels and using very short reins on 1 and 2 to regain balance ... the reason you don't notice his head as much on the 3rd barrel is you are throwing his reins to him quicker to run home and he is getting his front feet in the air instead of just his head.
Look and feel of his bit for any spikes or rough spots and if you are using any kind of snaffle ... put bit guards on it or go to an offset ring snaffle to protect the corners of his mouth ... also loosen his bit to only half a smile in the corners of his mouth ... if you have changed bits go back to the one you first used on him ...
Rider .. get longer reins, stop leaning ... switch to two handed before first and inbetween 1-2 and 2-3 to square yourself up along with horse ... it appears you are running with tight reins on both sides in your turns ... horse is fighting the pressure and from turning his nose to the outside and then it appears you balance yourself in his face coming out of the barrel turns ...
Your words on the 2nd video post may be the answer to the problems you have now ... he is a seasoned barrel horse ... trust him to do his job with only gentle one inside reining ......with slack in outside rein.... as a reminder if needed ...
GOOD LUCK ... it is not hard to pickup a few bad habits so compare previous good runs with the problem video you put on here ..
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | cheryl makofka - 2014-04-20 8:51 AM It is hard to see from the video, but I would get his hocks, stifle, and si joints checked out as something is bugging him in the hind end, he is not holding the lead around the entire barrel, he is swishing the tail which is a sign of hock pain.
^^^ This |
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| BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-04-20 3:04 PM
Could not view 2nd video but framed to frame the first one ...
I think rider has picked up some bad habits and/or changed bits or bit fit has a problem too ...
Rider is leaning in on all three barrels and using very short reins on 1 and 2 to regain balance ... the reason you don't notice his head as much on the 3rd barrel is you are throwing his reins to him quicker to run home and he is getting his front feet in the air instead of just his head.
Look and feel of his bit for any spikes or rough spots and if you are using any kind of snaffle ... put bit guards on it or go to an offset ring snaffle to protect the corners of his mouth ... also loosen his bit to only half a smile in the corners of his mouth ... if you have changed bits go back to the one you first used on him ...
Rider .. get longer reins, stop leaning ... switch to two handed before first and inbetween 1-2 and 2-3 to square yourself up along with horse ... it appears you are running with tight reins on both sides in your turns ... horse is fighting the pressure and from turning his nose to the outside and then it appears you balance yourself in his face coming out of the barrel turns ...
Your words on the 2nd video post may be the answer to the problems you have now ... he is a seasoned barrel horse ... trust him to do his job with only gentle one inside reining ......with slack in outside rein.... as a reminder if needed ...
GOOD LUCK ... it is not hard to pickup a few bad habits so compare previous good runs with the problem video you put on here ..
Thank you for your input!
Bit is the same bit he has always been ran in, but I will check it out for any issues it may have since it is old.
I definitely lean bad around the barrels, I have always done this..I try to be more aware of it but still tend to do it. It's kind of like when I'm trying to 'sit' I lean back.
As for my reins, I used to ride him with longer reins and my hands were pretty much in the middle of my reins around the barrels, I wouldn't reach down hardly at all. Now that he seems to have started to come off the barrels on the back side/leaving and not moving over correctly for the next barrel, I've tried shortening them a bit and trying to reach down more as to compensate or 'make' him finish the turn. Obviously it's not working :/ Possibly that could be a reason why he throws his head? To try and run before I let him go to finish the turn? |
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| Rustynailfl - 2014-04-20 5:47 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-04-20 3:04 PM
Could not view 2nd video but framed to frame the first one ...
I think rider has picked up some bad habits and/or changed bits or bit fit has a problem too ...
Rider is leaning in on all three barrels and using very short reins on 1 and 2 to regain balance ... the reason you don't notice his head as much on the 3rd barrel is you are throwing his reins to him quicker to run home and he is getting his front feet in the air instead of just his head.
Look and feel of his bit for any spikes or rough spots and if you are using any kind of snaffle ... put bit guards on it or go to an offset ring snaffle to protect the corners of his mouth ... also loosen his bit to only half a smile in the corners of his mouth ... if you have changed bits go back to the one you first used on him ...
Rider .. get longer reins, stop leaning ... switch to two handed before first and inbetween 1-2 and 2-3 to square yourself up along with horse ... it appears you are running with tight reins on both sides in your turns ... horse is fighting the pressure and from turning his nose to the outside and then it appears you balance yourself in his face coming out of the barrel turns ...
Your words on the 2nd video post may be the answer to the problems you have now ... he is a seasoned barrel horse ... trust him to do his job with only gentle one inside reining ......with slack in outside rein.... as a reminder if needed ...
GOOD LUCK ... it is not hard to pickup a few bad habits so compare previous good runs with the problem video you put on here ..
Thank you for your input!
Bit is the same bit he has always been ran in, but I will check it out for any issues it may have since it is old.
I definitely lean bad around the barrels, I have always done this..I try to be more aware of it but still tend to do it. It's kind of like when I'm trying to 'sit' I lean back.
As for my reins, I used to ride him with longer reins and my hands were pretty much in the middle of my reins around the barrels, I wouldn't reach down hardly at all. Now that he seems to have started to come off the barrels on the back side/leaving and not moving over correctly for the next barrel, I've tried shortening them a bit and trying to reach down more as to compensate or 'make' him finish the turn. Obviously it's not working :/ Possibly that could be a reason why he throws his head? To try and run before I let him go to finish the turn?
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Cervi and many of the NFR ladies are perfect examples of sitting deep in their saddles with good length on their stirrups to have more leg on the horse which keeps them balanced. At the same time they ride with 1/3 of their weight in their legs so their knees will act as shock absorbers and controls where their feet are. ..
I notice advice on shortening stirrups is a constant on these posts ... if your knees are bent too much all of your weight is on your tush ... so you are like a bowling pin just waiting to be rocked around or knocked over .. Lengthen your stirrups .. so when you stand up in the saddle you can barely slide your hand under your crotch and ride on your crotch which will straighten your shoulders up wards without being thrown backwards ... while sitting there all nice and straight ... check the length of your reins ... you should be able to touch your chest bone while holding the center of your reins with one hand.
To know where the center of your looped reins are regardless how short or long ... just wrap the center with a piece of tape ... when you make the quick change to riding two handed between barrels to get you and horse squared up ....... >>> a longer rein enables you to reach forward to shorten the inside rein while leaving slack in the outside rein while your other hand is grabbing the horn for the turn ... practice this at a walk, trot, lope till you make it a habit for using with speed ...
as mentioned above ... watch the NFR gals .. Walker, Fallon, Cervi and the Canadian Champion Rayel Robinson are masters at using little bumps on that inside rein to control the barrel turns ... no need for constant emergency pulling which usually shortens the outside rein and tilts horses nose to the outside and throws his rear end out of sync .. with his front end ..
Your last three questions .... can be caused by having too much pressure on a horses lips in the corner of his mouth ... that is the reason I said loosen his headstall to a half smile and use bit guards and see if it makes a difference .... you just said it was an old bit but not what kind it is ... hope one of the suggestions helps get you and your horse back in sync!!!
You will also notice the pro's are all in rhythm with their horses .. don't know what song they are singing but my get in rhythm song is .. Three Little Birds .... http://youtu.be/5Wmn-Tngh0k
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 MEOW!
Posts: 4477
Location: High heels in the air... | Hocks, stifles, Whirlbones... |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Rustynailfl - 2014-04-20 10:44 AM http://youtu.be/n5eWg9spO04 I'm hoping this video is viewable. This was in 2011, 9th in the 1D.. It'll show the way he runs. I of course didn't do much of anything on him but sit their lol This was about close to a year after I got him. Now he is running 3D times...
its private (that new video you just put up ) .. I see you on backside of 3rd.. leaning way back and grabbing reins for balance.. and he Immediately threw head up as well. so I think it is maybe both of you .. his pain and your balance.. |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | He is throwing his face up because of bit pressure. You are pulling back on the rein as he is trying to run to the next barrel. If you slo motion your video, you will see that you are pulling back toward your pocket right at the point when his head goes in the air. You have completed the turn, but you are still on his face. Work on your timing would be my suggestion.
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| Ok so I set the second video as public and it should be viewable now...this was in 2011, I actually had only been running barrels for not even a year and actually riding regularly for not much longer. As you can see I was even worse about leaning back around the barrels and literally did nothing with the reins.
I had his teeth done yesterday which were pretty bad, and also I am setting up a couple lessons with a well-known lady down this way to help me figure out if it’s me, him, or a combination of both. I never actually "learned" how to run barrels, I just kind of threw myself into it. It'll be interesting to see all the things I've been doing incorrectly.
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-04-21 8:41 AM
He is throwing his face up because of bit pressure. You are pulling back on the rein as he is trying to run to the next barrel. If you slo motion your video, you will see that you are pulling back toward your pocket right at the point when his head goes in the air. You have completed the turn, but you are still on his face. Work on your timing would be my suggestion.
I agree with hollywoods opinion. I also agree with cheryl. he is sore. but I think the head throwing is a totally different issue. I watched this several times and slowed it down, and to me it looks like he's trying to say, "let me do my job." I would also agree that you need a real good lameness exam also consider he's trying to switch back out of that right lead in the middle of a turn.
Edited by Crowned Image 2014-04-23 8:12 AM
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