|
|
 Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
   
Location: SE KS | my frustrations with my horse. Dinero is 15, we have hock issues and last July he was injected. Vet said right hock was fusing as it was hard to get the fluid in - left hock was dry. So we have him on legend as that is what my vet prescribed for him. I don't mean to write a book - but here is last years history:
July '13 - went to BR was bad at the gate (very bad) - ran won 2D; next week had vet come and we injected him as stated above.
End of July enter rodeo and was a gentleman at the gate and placed 6th. went to other jackpots, rodeos was good. Enter Tulsa in december for BR and he was nervous in the holding pen but hubby was there to talk to him and calm him. trotted to the gate, rode him 1 hand to the gate.
2014:
Feb - began legging him back up for the BRF in Lincoln, NE.
March - enter NBHA and was great at the gate - pulled shoes running, sore, went to chiro this was 2 weeks before BRF.
april - BRF (qualifier, big pen) - was good in the holding pen - however, during warm-up which only consisted of long trotting and trying to get him to walk - we had major nerve issues (he was sweating) husband thought I had taken off all the edge, no I have only been long trotting/walking him. We begin our run and he doesn't want to finish the 1 st barrel and just takes the bits. Got him shut down - he sulls up - get him around the 2nd and 3rd and long trot home. Come home and get whoa back with a port bit. Ride him normally in a twisted wire bit with a grinner/tie down - Don't go anywhere for a month. I ride every nite and we go 6 miles - 4-5 of that is long trotting/walking some loping - he is hard and in shape.
May - go to jackpot last week - we have issues at the gate before even booted up, cinched up etc. - so I go get the ported bit which has some whoa - we head to the gate w/ help, we trot to the gate as I want to kkep forward motion and send him and he makes me suck air (ground was sandy and dry and slipped on the 3rd) - win the 2D.
This week - sat/sun kinda a pill gathering cattle on him. doesn't want to lope a smooth right hand circle. took him to chiro right hip is out -
Last nite - jackpot - warms up great, left and right hand circles good - feel him kinda getting on the muscle so ask a friend to walk w/ me to the gate ( I just don't want to fight w/ him right now) he trots over and as I begin to gather up the reins the fight begins. he starts lunging/coming off his front end and sulling up. I get him to lope a few tight cirlces at the gate and stop him. when I felt him relax - I sent him. Our turns were nice - but he didn't run.
I know what I need to do - get his hocks checked.
What is he telling me by trotting to the gate - do I just need to leave him alone, get a deep seat and let him go?
The set up at this arena is not run in, and you need to get in your postion for the 1s barrel. - which he likes the best - but not everywhere we go you can come running in.
I just need ideas, thoughts, support.
I haven't had the chance to ever really run, so the last 3 yrs have been our building consistency year - I have had him since 4 and off and on again running. My husband and son came first and his rodeoing. So this is really my first experience w/ a level of a horse that he is becoming. He is fun to run when not being a pill at the gate.
Thanks all for letting me just spill.
| |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| He was telling you he was hurting in feb and you have done nothing?
Injections are one not a one time thing, generally you have to do them e dry 1-3 months. Hocks don't generally fuse completely on their own, so most have to keep injecting or surgically fuse.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-15 4:23 PM
| |
| | |
Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | No Cheryl - he was not telling me anything in Feb - if you read - I was legging him up.
March he ran good -
I have given him Legend shots - as this is what the vet has prescribe for him.
I also stated - I know I need to call the vet as I am sure he probably does need to be injected again.
Normally for him and I do disagree with you here, he has NOT needed 1-3 months injections in the past. Now with his age and possibly running harder then he ever has before that may be the case. But I don't haul to 3-4 barrel races every week and I don't haul that hard.
I appreciate your input, but not in a condescending written word.
He doesn't drag his toes as in the past that told me he was needing an injection - he stands for the shoer - as in the past he wouldn't always be a gentleman.
| |
| | |
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| My guys are 11, 13 and 15. I don't go that often, maybe twice a month. Mine need hocks every 10 - 12 months. I also rotate giving them polyglcan or pentosan about every 3 weeks, more often if we are going to more races. My 13 year old has been fusing for 2 years, he is 100% on one side and 75% on the other. Only one joint can be injected on the 75% side, he does great with this program, runs a great pattern. I try to stay ahead of any pain issues, I don't want them runing sore and I don't want to create issues. Good luck with your guy. | |
| | |
Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | rodeomom3 - 2014-05-15 4:44 PM My guys are 11, 13 and 15. I don't go that often, maybe twice a month. Mine need hocks every 10 - 12 months. I also rotate giving them polyglcan or pentosan about every 3 weeks, more often if we are going to more races. My 13 year old has been fusing for 2 years, he is 100% on one side and 75% on the other. Only one joint can be injected on the 75% side, he does great with this program, runs a great pattern. I try to stay ahead of any pain issues, I don't want them runing sore and I don't want to create issues. Good luck with your guy.
thanks rodeo mom - I will ask my vet about the polyglcan and the pentosan.
I am with you there trying to stay ahead of it - I don't want to run him sore either. In March he gave me no indication
that he was. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I have to put two things out there just for you to think about. In humans we will do a series of injections to relieve the pain cascade. (I only know of a few vets that will do a series of two.) If your using Pentosan watch for bleeding as a side effect. I've had experience with several horses bleeding after a series of Legend and Adequan. I really wish there were a study on horses on these medications and this possible side effect. I can't find one, but sure have seen several bleed post a series. (It could be that these horses were all hard runners.) | |
| | |
Mrs. Txdad
Posts: 14084
Location: the fantasy txdad married | uno-dos-tres! - 2014-05-15 5:51 PM I have to put two things out there just for you to think about. In humans we will do a series of injections to relieve the pain cascade. (I only know of a few vets that will do a series of two.) If your using Pentosan watch for bleeding as a side effect. I've had experience with several horses bleeding after a series of Legend and Adequan. I really wish there were a study on horses on these medications and this possible side effect. I can't find one, but sure have seen several bleed post a series. (It could be that these horses were all hard runners.)
I have never heard of this..?
I give Pentosan weekly. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Dinero10 - 2014-05-15 4:17 PM my frustrations with my horse. Dinero is 15, we have hock issues and last July he was injected. Vet said right hock was fusing as it was hard to get the fluid in - left hock was dry. So we have him on legend as that is what my vet prescribed for him. I don't mean to write a book - but here is last years history:
July '13 - went to BR was bad at the gate (very bad) - ran won 2D; next week had vet come and we injected him as stated above.
End of July enter rodeo and was a gentleman at the gate and placed 6th. went to other jackpots, rodeos was good. Enter Tulsa in december for BR and he was nervous in the holding pen but hubby was there to talk to him and calm him. trotted to the gate, rode him 1 hand to the gate.
2014:
Feb - began legging him back up for the BRF in Lincoln, NE.
March - enter NBHA and was great at the gate - pulled shoes running, sore, went to chiro this was 2 weeks before BRF.
april - BRF (qualifier, big pen) - was good in the holding pen - however, during warm-up which only consisted of long trotting and trying to get him to walk - we had major nerve issues (he was sweating) husband thought I had taken off all the edge, no I have only been long trotting/walking him. We begin our run and he doesn't want to finish the 1 st barrel and just takes the bits. Got him shut down - he sulls up - get him around the 2nd and 3rd and long trot home. This was your first indication the injections were no longer working. He's not just being a "pill" he's letting you know he is not ok, he is hurting. Come home and get whoa back with a port bit. Training is not your issue, he's not trying to be an a$$, putting a big bit in his mouth and slamming into his hurting hocks isn't doing you any favors. Ride him normally in a twisted wire bit with a grinner/tie down - Don't go anywhere for a month. I ride every nite and we go 6 miles - 4-5 of that is long trotting/walking some loping - he is hard and in shape.
May - go to jackpot last week - we have issues at the gate before even booted up, cinched up etc.Again, he's trying to communicate with you - so I go get the ported bit which has some whoa Again, not the issue- we head to the gate w/ help, we trot to the gate as I want to kkep forward motion and send him and he makes me suck air (ground was sandy and dry and slipped on the 3rd) - win the 2D.
This week - sat/sun kinda a pill gathering cattle on him. doesn't want to lope a smooth right hand circle.Indicative of hock soreness took him to chiro right hip is out Horses will need chiro adjustements when they are off in other places -
Last nite - jackpot - warms up great, left and right hand circles good - feel him kinda getting on the muscle so ask a friend to walk w/ me to the gate ( I just don't want to fight w/ him right now) he trots over and as I begin to gather up the reins the fight begins. he starts lunging/coming off his front end and sulling up. I get him to lope a few tight cirlces at the gate and stop him. when I felt him relax - I sent him. Our turns were nice - but he didn't run.
I know what I need to do - get his hocks checked.
What is he telling me by trotting to the gate - do I just need to leave him alone, get a deep seat and let him go? He's saying he gives up, he knows he can't get away with fighting with you even though he's hurting, now he's anxious and wants to get it over with.
The set up at this arena is not run in, and you need to get in your postion for the 1s barrel. - which he likes the best - but not everywhere we go you can come running in.
I just need ideas, thoughts, support.
I haven't had the chance to ever really run, so the last 3 yrs have been our building consistency year - I have had him since 4 and off and on again running. My husband and son came first and his rodeoing. So this is really my first experience w/ a level of a horse that he is becoming. He is fun to run when not being a pill at the gate.
Thanks all for letting me just spill.
So, I'm not trying to be condescending, I just feel like your horse has been telling you since April that he needs his hocks redone and you've being schooling and disciplining him. You even say at the end of your spill you know that's what you need to do. Must be a pretty awesome animal to still be winning the 2D for you. | |
| | |
  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-15 5:22 PM
He was telling you he was hurting in feb and you have done nothing?
Injections are one not a one time thing, generally you have to do them e dry 1-3 months. Hocks don't generally fuse completely on their own, so most have to keep injecting or surgically fuse.
Hocks will be different for every single horse. You shouldn't be doing them once a month.
We have a gelding when he is competing, only needs his hocks down twice a year, every six months. Since he's been retired we do them once a year.
I have used polyglycan with success. | |
| | |
 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | Here's my 2 cents. Hock joints can't ever fuse in the manner most folks think. If they did, the horse could not bend his leg. What is happening is there is just more and more damage being caused by scar tissue(arthritis) in the joint. If I were in your boots, I'd take him to a REALLY good vet (assuming you already love your vet here) about avery 3 months just for a walk through. My lameness vet xrays to get a good starting point. I thought of that because you said it was tough for the vet to get an injection in.
I could go on and on about how many people think that my horse was being naughty this winter when in fact her front feet were REALLY sore. | |
| | |
Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Our 14 yr old gelding needs his hocks injected every seven to nine months. This is irregardless of how much he is hauled and run. When it is time he will begin to get trashy at the gate and his turns become like two point turns behind the barrel as opposed to round and smooth like they are when his hocks are right. If we continue to push him when he needs injected, the gate issues escalate and he will begin to slice turns and hit barrels. When he tells us that it is time we have learned to listen.
IV drugs and feed thru supplements are of absolutely no use in this horse -- basically just so much wasted cash and effort. Since we do not have unlimited funds, I feel like injections are the best investment.
Edited by SC Wrangler 2014-05-15 8:43 PM
| |
| | |
 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I watched your run last night and agree that he didn't run hard. My first question after reading your background info is "does he still think he hurts and now is nervous & acting up because he expects to hurt when he runs?" That is the #1 reason why my bay horse still has occasional gate issues. We didn't know he was sore for a long time because he kept working once we got him in the gate. Someone finally suggested we check hocks and voila - problem found! He did not quickly forget his gate issues though, and we battled them for several years. The last couple of years I've figured out how to get around them - mainly keep him ridiculously calm and don't head for the gate until it's a clear shot so he can go on his terms. Last night he actually walked in, stepped over to set up for the first barrel and then took off when I asked. WOW is all I could think.
That said, I wonder if he has some ulcers or just basic nervousness from running when his hocks did hurt. It could be that, or it could be his hocks do hurt. It could also be you tensing up because you're worried about him going in without a fight. That was a lot of my trouble with Joker - I got nervous hoping he'd go in without a fight and it just made things worse. If I relaxed and took a deep breath, he rarely gave me trouble even in the years when he was terrible most of the time. I would also wonder about needing adjusted again in case things didn't stay where they belong after the adjustment in March.
Good luck, and I hope you're able to figure him out. He looks like a nice horse - you had a pretty run last night - and I'm sure you'll get things lined out before too long. | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | My horse is 14 and he gets upper and lower joints in hocks injected every 3-4 months. Of course, every horse is different. As far as gate issues and running off/not running hard, I would maybe look into other issues. He may be a bleeder. This also happened to me. My horse was stupid in the alley, would blast to the first and then quit running to 2nd & 3rd. They run out of air and feel like they are drowning. Good luck. I know its hard to figure out what they are telling us sometimes! | |
| | |
 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| rodeorun68 - 2014-05-15 8:19 PM
Here's my 2 cents. Hock joints can't ever fuse in the manner most folks think. If they did, the horse could not bend his leg. What is happening is there is just more and more damage being caused by scar tissue(arthritis) in the joint. If I were in your boots, I'd take him to a REALLY good vet (assuming you already love your vet here) about avery 3 months just for a walk through. My lameness vet xrays to get a good starting point. I thought of that because you said it was tough for the vet to get an injection in.
I could go on and on about how many people think that my horse was being naughty this winter when in fact her front feet were REALLY sore.Â
You know there are low motion hock joints that can and do fuse. | |
| | |
Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | I want to say thank you to everyone for their input, advice & kindness -
I have called the vet and waiting for him to call me back - in my heart and guts I kow what he needs.
| |
| | |
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BamaCanChaser - 2014-05-15 8:23 PM Dinero10 - 2014-05-15 4:17 PM my frustrations with my horse. Dinero is 15, we have hock issues and last July he was injected. Vet said right hock was fusing as it was hard to get the fluid in - left hock was dry. So we have him on legend as that is what my vet prescribed for him. I don't mean to write a book - but here is last years history:
July '13 - went to BR was bad at the gate (very bad) - ran won 2D; next week had vet come and we injected him as stated above.
End of July enter rodeo and was a gentleman at the gate and placed 6th. went to other jackpots, rodeos was good. Enter Tulsa in december for BR and he was nervous in the holding pen but hubby was there to talk to him and calm him. trotted to the gate, rode him 1 hand to the gate.
2014:
Feb - began legging him back up for the BRF in Lincoln, NE.
March - enter NBHA and was great at the gate - pulled shoes running, sore, went to chiro this was 2 weeks before BRF.
april - BRF (qualifier, big pen) - was good in the holding pen - however, during warm-up which only consisted of long trotting and trying to get him to walk - we had major nerve issues (he was sweating) husband thought I had taken off all the edge, no I have only been long trotting/walking him. We begin our run and he doesn't want to finish the 1 st barrel and just takes the bits. Got him shut down - he sulls up - get him around the 2nd and 3rd and long trot home. This was your first indication the injections were no longer working. He's not just being a "pill" he's letting you know he is not ok, he is hurting. Come home and get whoa back with a port bit. Training is not your issue, he's not trying to be an a$$, putting a big bit in his mouth and slamming into his hurting hocks isn't doing you any favors. Ride him normally in a twisted wire bit with a grinner/tie down - Don't go anywhere for a month. I ride every nite and we go 6 miles - 4-5 of that is long trotting/walking some loping - he is hard and in shape.
May - go to jackpot last week - we have issues at the gate before even booted up, cinched up etc.Again, he's trying to communicate with you - so I go get the ported bit which has some whoa Again, not the issue- we head to the gate w/ help, we trot to the gate as I want to kkep forward motion and send him and he makes me suck air (ground was sandy and dry and slipped on the 3rd) - win the 2D.
This week - sat/sun kinda a pill gathering cattle on him. doesn't want to lope a smooth right hand circle.Indicative of hock soreness took him to chiro right hip is out Horses will need chiro adjustements when they are off in other places -
Last nite - jackpot - warms up great, left and right hand circles good - feel him kinda getting on the muscle so ask a friend to walk w/ me to the gate ( I just don't want to fight w/ him right now) he trots over and as I begin to gather up the reins the fight begins. he starts lunging/coming off his front end and sulling up. I get him to lope a few tight cirlces at the gate and stop him. when I felt him relax - I sent him. Our turns were nice - but he didn't run.
I know what I need to do - get his hocks checked.
What is he telling me by trotting to the gate - do I just need to leave him alone, get a deep seat and let him go? He's saying he gives up, he knows he can't get away with fighting with you even though he's hurting, now he's anxious and wants to get it over with.
The set up at this arena is not run in, and you need to get in your postion for the 1s barrel. - which he likes the best - but not everywhere we go you can come running in.
I just need ideas, thoughts, support.
I haven't had the chance to ever really run, so the last 3 yrs have been our building consistency year - I have had him since 4 and off and on again running. My husband and son came first and his rodeoing. So this is really my first experience w/ a level of a horse that he is becoming. He is fun to run when not being a pill at the gate.
Thanks all for letting me just spill.
So, I'm not trying to be condescending, I just feel like your horse has been telling you since April that he needs his hocks redone and you've being schooling and disciplining him. You even say at the end of your spill you know that's what you need to do. Must be a pretty awesome animal to still be winning the 2D for you.
its been 8 months or more since he was injected.. hes hurting..and hes being rode 6 miles a night every day is alot.. imo...on dry hocks.... stop the bigger bits ( hes just being forced to run in pain ) and have a vet out again. good luck.. hes telling you things.. we have to listen..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-05-16 8:33 AM
| |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Dinero10 - 2014-05-15 4:35 PM
No Cheryl - he was not telling me anything in Feb - if you read - I was legging him up.
 March he ran good -
I have given him Legend shots - as this is what the vet has prescribe for him.Â
I also stated - I know I need to call the vet as I am sure he probably does need to be injected again.
 Normally for him and I do disagree with you here, he has NOT needed 1-3 months injections in the past. Now with his age and possibly running harder then he ever has before that may be the case. But I don't haul to 3-4 barrel races every week and I don't haul that hard.
I appreciate your input, but not in a condescending written word.Â
He doesn't drag his toes as in the past that told me he was needing an injection - he stands for the shoer - as in the past he wouldn't always be a gentleman.Â
Â
Sorry in April he was telling you.
And I do know that everyone has different views of injections, personally I don't inject hocks, I fuse as soon as they are showing pain.
As for front joints, I have injected every month, as soon as they have windpuffs, I go back to the vet, 9/10 I have had him injected. Mine was diagnosed with arthritis as 6 retired sound at 15 pullout and legged up at 18 ran for a year and placed in HSR, retired still sound to lay person at 21. I also did glucosamine weekly, adequan regime, and legend biweekly, as I did not want to retire him due to soreness, or have him sore in the pasture.
If you read about IA joints, the solution you inject in don't stay in the system long. | |
| | |
Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | thank you Cheryl -
updated: - we have an apt for next wed -
Edited by Dinero10 2014-05-16 10:59 AM
| |
| |
| |
Folks on-line