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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | achildres - 2014-05-30 9:03 PM
Well, maybe. Depending on the case... This is what we did for my brother. Granted he was 19 at the time and still dependent on my parents. We basically did a surprise intervention on him, had most of the family there, used a counselor to aid us in the whole thing. After it was over, my parents told him that he has 3 days to decide if he wants to go to rehab and get better, or be completely cut off. They said on the 3rd day we are shutting off your phone and you have to fend for yourself. On the 2nd day he called us and we got him on a plane that night to Georgia for rehab. This was July of last year, he has left a few times, but always went back. He is now in a sober living home in Dallas and is doing great! At first his decision was based off of that there was no better choice for him, but then he realized that he actually did need the help.
I agree with this. The biggest problem to overcome is the fact that he has a disease that tells him he doesn't have a disease. The family and close friends need to understand that this is an illness that effects everyone...not just the addict. In essence it makes every loved one sick. Until the addict realizes that he has hit bottom, he won't get help. He has to understand that he has an illness that is universally fatal.....eventually, it will kill him. It's only a matter of time, and the only question is the mode of exodus.....will it be hepatitis, overdose, bleeding, trauma, etc....? For some, the threat of losing a job or career is "hitting bottom", whereas for others it might be the threat to his life, loss of a marriage or family, or threat of imprisonment. Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-31 7:34 AM
achildres - 2014-05-30 9:03 PM
Well, maybe. Depending on the case... This is what we did for my brother. Granted he was 19 at the time and still dependent on my parents. We basically did a surprise intervention on him, had most of the family there, used a counselor to aid us in the whole thing. After it was over, my parents told him that he has 3 days to decide if he wants to go to rehab and get better, or be completely cut off. They said on the 3rd day we are shutting off your phone and you have to fend for yourself. On the 2nd day he called us and we got him on a plane that night to Georgia for rehab. This was July of last year, he has left a few times, but always went back. He is now in a sober living home in Dallas and is doing great! At first his decision was based off of that there was no better choice for him, but then he realized that he actually did need the help.
I agree with this. The biggest problem to overcome is the fact that he has a disease that tells him he doesn't have a disease. The family and close friends need to understand that this is an illness that effects everyone...not just the addict. In essence it makes every loved one sick. Until the addict realizes that he has hit bottom, he won't get help. He has to understand that he has an illness that is universally fatal.....eventually, it will kill him. It's only a matter of time, and the only question is the mode of exodus.....will it be hepatitis, overdose, bleeding, trauma, etc....? For some, the threat of losing a job or career is "hitting bottom", whereas for others it might be the threat to his life, loss of a marriage or family, or threat of imprisonment. Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled.
I don't understand how you can call it a "disease"? People who are addicted to drugs can CHOOSE to get help and get clean. People who have cancer or a real disease cannot just choose to get well.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | reditorun - 2014-05-31 10:31 AM
HotbearLVR - 2014-05-31 7:34 AM
achildres - 2014-05-30 9:03 PM
Well, maybe. Depending on the case... This is what we did for my brother. Granted he was 19 at the time and still dependent on my parents. We basically did a surprise intervention on him, had most of the family there, used a counselor to aid us in the whole thing. After it was over, my parents told him that he has 3 days to decide if he wants to go to rehab and get better, or be completely cut off. They said on the 3rd day we are shutting off your phone and you have to fend for yourself. On the 2nd day he called us and we got him on a plane that night to Georgia for rehab. This was July of last year, he has left a few times, but always went back. He is now in a sober living home in Dallas and is doing great! At first his decision was based off of that there was no better choice for him, but then he realized that he actually did need the help.
I agree with this. The biggest problem to overcome is the fact that he has a disease that tells him he doesn't have a disease. The family and close friends need to understand that this is an illness that effects everyone...not just the addict. In essence it makes every loved one sick. Until the addict realizes that he has hit bottom, he won't get help. He has to understand that he has an illness that is universally fatal.....eventually, it will kill him. It's only a matter of time, and the only question is the mode of exodus.....will it be hepatitis, overdose, bleeding, trauma, etc....? For some, the threat of losing a job or career is "hitting bottom", whereas for others it might be the threat to his life, loss of a marriage or family, or threat of imprisonment. Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled.
I don't understand how you can call it a "disease"? People who are addicted to drugs can CHOOSE to get help and get clean. People who have cancer or a real disease cannot just choose to get well.
The debate over whether or not alcoholism and addiction is a "disease" will probably never end. Many people with conditions such as obesity, hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease can be managed or even cured depending on whether or not someone is compliant with medications, diet, exercise, healthy eating, etc.... Many people die because they refuse to do what needs to be done to manage their disease. Others will live healthy, long lives because they choose to be compliant. If an alcoholic decides to admit that he is powerless to quit drinking and decides to become compliant and do the right thing, he too can live with his illness and remain healthy. Just because there is no medication that can cure alcoholism doesn't mean it's not a disease. If it's not a disease, then what do you call it? There are a lot of good, productive members of our society who are recovering alcoholics and drug addicts from all walks of life. Anyone who thinks he/she doesn't have the potential to become an addict is ignorant. | |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | ] I don't understand how you can call it a "disease"? People who are addicted to drugs can CHOOSE to get help and get clean. People who have cancer or a real disease cannot just choose to get well.
Actually, if you read much of the latest research, it is in fact a disease. Something in the brain that is not normal causes it. It's present at birth and predisposes an addict to be an addict. I didn't understand most of the terms. Check out a book named Clean written by David ? | |
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| Yep, definitely a disease and treatment will not help unless the person wants help. I teach in a substance abuse facility. some want help some do not. You can definitely tell which ones want help and which do not. When your other choice is jail sometimes treatment becomes more attractive.
My cousin was busted AGAIN. She has had treatment before. I think loosing her kid was kind of a wake-up call. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2041
Location: home for the winter...what a dumb idea | No you can not help them.....and from lots of personal experience (please look up a thread I ha about my grandma's house) even if they appear for a time to be off drugs they probably just got better at hiding it.....I have only ever seen one person who was truly a drug addict ( would o every drug out there not just smoked a little pot or took pills every now and again) ever come out of it.....for the most part.....he still smokes weed....and will for ever carry the scares left by the car accident that changed him...he will never be able to play sports with his kids he will never get so see his oldest son he will never get a good job. But he is alive... | |
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Location: East of the Pecos | The best thing you can do is not enable him in any way. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1549
Location: Southwest Louisiana | No, not until they really want it. My sister in law has ODed several times, in the hospital for weeks in a coma, got out and went right back to it. She's been in jail a total of several years and that didn't stop her. Went to rehab more times than I can count. She has 3 kids and they have all been taken away, the last one was taken from her the day she had him. None of that was even enough. She still gets high on whatever she can get her hands on. I've seen her hit "rock bottom" a dozen times and still it's not enough to deter her. We know we're going to get that call one day that she was found dead somewhere, but we've all tried everything we can do. She's not allowed at our house because she's come over higher than a kite and I don't want my kids around that. She's lost just about everything she can lose and nothing is worth quitting to her. She talks a really good talk, making you think she desperately want's to stop and get her life on track. But when she's slurring her words trying to tell you how good she's been doing lately, it's just sad. This has been going on for over 15 years now and it's the same story over and over. Until she really, really wants to quit, she's going to keep on the same path no matter what anyone tries to do. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I've seen lots of people get second chances and succeed. But the key is what everybody else has said. They have to want it. | |
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 More Famous than Dr Phil
| Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled.
I did. One morning I decided I wasnt going to be that person anymore and never touched it again. I changed my whole lifestyle, my work, my friends everything. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: Mississippi | txdad - 2014-06-02 1:05 PM Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled. I did. One morning I decided I wasnt going to be that person anymore and never touched it again. I changed my whole lifestyle, my work, my friends everything.
Thank you all for the advice! TXDad that gives me some hope... I just keep praying... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | txdad - 2014-06-02 1:05 PM
Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled.
I did. One morning I decided I wasnt going to be that person anymore and never touched it again. I changed my whole lifestyle, my work, my friends everything.
Congrats, Txdad. You are one of the exceptions. Most need a lot more powerful motivation besides some epiphany. | |
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Location: California | You can pray til you're blue in the face, it won't help. You know what you can do? Be honest and just tell him. "Hey you are a great person but when you are high, you're a total idiot and I can't be around you." I'm speaking from experience and I have ALOT of it in this category. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| txdad - 2014-06-02 11:05 AM
Addicts don't often just wake up one day, look in the mirror, and decide they are living unhealthy lives and decide to quit. That need to be compelled.
I did. One morning I decided I wasnt going to be that person anymore and never touched it again. I changed my whole lifestyle, my work, my friends everything.
You only have to change one thing - EVERYTHING.
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More Famous than Dr Phil
| The only thing you can do, is be there when they hit bottom. Don't enable them along the way. | |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
Definitely trust everyone's opinions who have been there and done that. Don't enable them, but do give them hope and reason, and occasional food to help keep them alive so they can try again tomorrow.
Best advice I can give is for relatives to get some counseling so they can learn to deal with it and enjoy their lives despite it all.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | To answer this question, NO they have to be ready to do what is right for them and nobody can tell them when the right time is but themselves. | |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | You can't make anyone quit. You can't force someone to be ready. You can most certainly be there to help them when and if the time comes that they truly decide to quit. Of course, one must be cautious and make sure that said person truly has decided to quit. Trust me, I was a rather crafty, manipulative, convincing "quitter". Through the years, I made 12 trips to some of the best rehab facilities available. None of those "treatments" helped me to quit because I never went for the right reasons.
I come from a long, strong line of addicts. My mother is an alcoholic. Thankfully, she quit drinking years ago. My Grandmother was also an alcoholic. My brother will die cross addicted. His is probably the saddest case in our family. He has spent the last30 years of his life in and out of jail for various reasons, each and every one of them drug/alcohol related. He'll go for long stretches where he does quite well. He's one of the best people that I have ever known, when he's clean. For the past 15 years, he has used incarceration to keep from killing himself via addiction. In his latest move, he had been using again for about a month when he realized just how far gone he was. He blatantly and purposely violated probation, thus granting himself three clean years in prison. He told me that he knew that left to his own devices he would continue using, so he opted to place his life in the control of others.
I began drinking at 10 years old. I know that most kids will sneak a beer, or liquor from their parents at some point. That is not my story. My mother was a psych nurse. She was attacked by a patient and suffered brain damage. While she was in a physical rehabilitation facility for months afterward, my brother and cousin cared for my sister and myself. There were parties at our house most every night. I was just another person around the bonfire with a beer. Nobody batted an eye.
When I moved back to FL to live with my father, he moved out. Left with no parental supervision, a good supply of money and an alcoholic housekeeper, my partying only increased. While on the road at horse shows and barrel races, I got grooms to go to the liquor store for me. I also became introduced to more "exciting" ways to party. For a while, life was all fun and games. When I was 15, I had a horse fall on me, sending me to the hospital. Of course, they noted that I was a bit "abnormal" and ran blood. Let's just say that they were a bit shocked at the findings.
Upon receiving notification from the hospital, my father told me that I had two options. I could chose to go to rehab, or I could lose my horses. I, of course picked out a very well respected, rather "spa like" rehab facility. There were quite a few of us in the Juvenile program. A handful of us got together and decided that we should hang out when we got out of the program. We talked to our parents and explained that we wanted to be there for each other, a support system to help one another readjust to our new "sober" lives out in the real world. We went to one of the girls' summer homes, where we proceeded to place orders for delivery, to be charged to their account with the liquor store and stayed drunk for the next two weeks.
Through the years, I was known to fall off the wagon and go through great dry spells. I never really cared one way, or another. After my husband died, I began drinking very heavily. For the next few years, I was constantly drunk. There were many nights that I drunkenly cussed myself for being so weak. Countless beers were poured down the drain, only to be followed by the sound of another opening. I hated the fact that I was so under the control of my addiction, but could not bring myself to change. I openly admitted that I was an alcoholic and that I should probably do something about it, but I wasn't ready. As much as I hated what I was doing to myself and those around me, I hated the thought of the long road to sobriety and the struggles that it would bring even more.
While visiting with a friend who had over 20 years clean at the time, I aired my thoughts and feeling. She gave me a speech that sealed the deal. She knew that I wanted to change. She knew that I had been through the programs, been in and out of the rooms, knew the tools and how to access them. She also knew the exact words that would push me over the edge. She said "Andy, you are one of the most amazing people that I have ever known. You're extraordinary at everything you do, but when it comes to your addiction, you're just a garden variety drunk. Be better than that, be extraordinary. Be so damn good that you kick it's butt!".
I went home right after having that conversation. I spent the rest of that day and into the early hours of the following morning thinking about her words over a couple cases of Bud Light. The next morning, I got up and decided that it was time to do something. I looked up the nearest AA meeting and dragged my sorry behind down to the Presbyterian church that evening. For the first time, I was going into a meeting for the right reasons. I wasn't there so that I could keep my horses, to make my mother happy, or to trick anyone into thinking that I was no longer drinking. I was there because I didn't want to drink anymore. I had had enough and was determined to change my life.
I went to meeting religiously for quite some time. I often went to two meetings a day. I had heard it all before, but this time, I actually listened. I still have a lot of work to do. I have yet to make certain amends. I can certainly still think like an addict from time to time. There are still times when I suddenly find myself feeling "thirsty". When I look at the life that I had not all too long ago and where I am now, I can't imagine ever going back there. I I make a choice every day not to feed my addiction, for I know that it still resides inside of me, just waiting for me to slip up. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | That was beautiful Andy, thank you for sharing.
There are many studies showing the genetic component of addiction to be very real. Researchers are currently working on locating the exact genes responsible for addiction problems.
Example is this study: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?hl=en&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/6697424_Addiction_molecular_genetics_639401_SNP_whole_genome_association_identifies_many_cell_adhesion_genes/file/9fcfd50a1596d498fe.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm3vfAIw9pdsQhRIbDD_Guq80VIFTw&oi=scholarr
Edited by barrelracr131 2014-06-03 6:29 AM
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