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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
  
Location: North Dakota | I have never dealt with laminitis before and I just recently had a mare diagnosed with navicular and signs of laminitis and a slight rotation to her coffin bone. I have dealt with navicular and know quite a bit about the options out there but I do not know much about laminitis so if you guys could share your laminitis experiences that would be great! What options are there to get her sound? What is the outlook for her to continue with her performance career? Diet options, etc? Please share your tips, experiences, etc. She currently is on a strict hay diet and I feel so bad for her. She lost a ton of weight the first 2 weeks she was put on the diet but I have bumped up her feeding and she has gained a tiny bit and been maintianing nicely. I am going to be getting her a slow feed hay net soon to help slow her down so the little bit she gets last her longer. That way she may think she is getting more than she is. I also worry about ulcers with her too. :( My poor girl. |
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 Member
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Location: North Dakota | I have a gelding with laminitis. I have him on 1 tablet of Previcox a day and limited grass. I also have "pour on pads" on him to help cushion his feet, also a strick trimming/shoeing schedule. I was told not to feed him grain, but I have an issue of keeping weight on him with just hay so I do just a couple of hand fulls of a pelleted senior feed twice a day. I have been lucky enough his feet have not been getting worse. I do have x-rays taken once a year to make sure there are no changes. |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
 
Location: Willows, CA | I can help with a few points. First, you need to identify the cause. This is almost always a management issue that needs to be sorted out. Second, if the rotation was idendified soon after the founder, you may not know the whole story. Most of the rotation will happen 30 to 45 days later. If the rotation is slight you can manage it. If it is significant, the outcome is likely to be be poor where a useful performance future is concerned. Call us if we can help. We work on a lot of horses with this problem. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | gsamuelson - 2014-06-23 10:43 AM I have a gelding with laminitis. I have him on 1 tablet of Previcox a day and limited grass. I also have "pour on pads" on him to help cushion his feet, also a strick trimming/shoeing schedule. I was told not to feed him grain, but I have an issue of keeping weight on him with just hay so I do just a couple of hand fulls of a pelleted senior feed twice a day. I have been lucky enough his feet have not been getting worse. I do have x-rays taken once a year to make sure there are no changes.
One 57mg of Prev a day? I have the large pills that I usually split into quarters for my other mare during her cycle since she gets bad cramps. I also have a few of the smaller pills left over from when my dog was on them for a sprain.
I was told to keep her off pain meds for now so we know when she is feeling better on her own. But I would think getting that inflammation down would be the biggest priority?? She was sound up until a big weekend of barrel racing and then she came up dead lame right after her last run so that is why we had the xrays taken and saw all the damage in her feet. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | You might give Bob a call at THE or pm me with any questions that I can forward on to him. I have used his NitrOxide supplement on 2 mares with laminitis and they both showed improvement. Both were sold to homes that can manage their issues better so I only fed them for a month, got them to gain weight and feel better for their trip. My stud was too far gone and too rotated for it to do him much good. He had to be put down. It came on fast and we never did figure out why. Scary stuff for sure. We have had so much rain this year that our grass is growing like crazy so I have my old 21 yr old gelding and a pony locked in the corral on grass hay. Our vet said he has seen more founder cases this yr than in forever. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | winwillows - 2014-06-23 10:55 AM I can help with a few points. First, you need to identify the cause. This is almost always a management issue that needs to be sorted out. Second, if the rotation was idendified soon after the founder, you may not know the whole story. Most of the rotation will happen 30 to 45 days later. If the rotation is slight you can manage it. If it is significant, the outcome is likely to be be poor where a useful performance future is concerned. Call us if we can help. We work on a lot of horses with this problem.
It is a very slight rotation. Both the farrier and vet studied the xrays for awhile to discuss if it was actual rotation or she just needed toe taken down but they both came to the conclusion it was slight rotation. I have no idea when any of this happened. Like I just posted above she was sound up until after a big weekend of running. She clocked great all weekend but came out lame after her last run and has been sore ever since. That was a little over a month ago. She has not been my main horse for a couple years so she did not get worked much last year. She has seemed a little short sometimes when I watched her but she has stifle issues as well so I figured it was just the stifles making her move a little stiffer since she wasn't getting worked but it definitely could have been her front bothering her but she was mostly used as my husband's trail horse and sometimes barrels for the past coupld of years. My guess is grass founder since it was this spring fairly soon after being turned out on grass. She has always been an easy keeper too. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | wyoming barrel racer - 2014-06-23 11:07 AM You might give Bob a call at THE or pm me with any questions that I can forward on to him. I have used his NitrOxide supplement on 2 mares with laminitis and they both showed improvement. Both were sold to homes that can manage their issues better so I only fed them for a month, got them to gain weight and feel better for their trip. My stud was too far gone and too rotated for it to do him much good. He had to be put down. It came on fast and we never did figure out why. Scary stuff for sure. We have had so much rain this year that our grass is growing like crazy so I have my old 21 yr old gelding and a pony locked in the corral on grass hay. Our vet said he has seen more founder cases this yr than in forever.
I know! Now I am paranoid for all my horses!! Any little wrong step I am like "Oh no! Not you too!" |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | it really can be anything. When the stud did it, the vet said it most likely happened before we bought him because he was actually sore footed on the way home from TX to WY. His feet needed some major attention so we figured it was from being long toed, having 3 racing plates left on about 2 months too long or an abcsess. Vet said illegal race drugs can do it, as well as too many inflammatories, stress, running on hard ground, getting into feed, green grass etc etc. So with him, who knows what one set him off. Good luck on your mare, sounds like you have a great team to work with. Around here, they don't really know how to manage it well-farriers/vets etc. |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Just Bring It - 2014-06-23 11:12 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-06-23 11:07 AM You might give Bob a call at THE or pm me with any questions that I can forward on to him. I have used his NitrOxide supplement on 2 mares with laminitis and they both showed improvement. Both were sold to homes that can manage their issues better so I only fed them for a month, got them to gain weight and feel better for their trip. My stud was too far gone and too rotated for it to do him much good. He had to be put down. It came on fast and we never did figure out why. Scary stuff for sure. We have had so much rain this year that our grass is growing like crazy so I have my old 21 yr old gelding and a pony locked in the corral on grass hay. Our vet said he has seen more founder cases this yr than in forever. I know! Now I am paranoid for all my horses!! Any little wrong step I am like "Oh no! Not you too!"
I'm having issues with the grass too. I'm NOT COMPLAINING about the rain. LOL Thank you Lord, but its awful rich grass. The 3 horses I'm running only get turned out during the day and dry lot at night.
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | CYA Ranch - 2014-06-23 11:30 AM Just Bring It - 2014-06-23 11:12 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-06-23 11:07 AM You might give Bob a call at THE or pm me with any questions that I can forward on to him. I have used his NitrOxide supplement on 2 mares with laminitis and they both showed improvement. Both were sold to homes that can manage their issues better so I only fed them for a month, got them to gain weight and feel better for their trip. My stud was too far gone and too rotated for it to do him much good. He had to be put down. It came on fast and we never did figure out why. Scary stuff for sure. We have had so much rain this year that our grass is growing like crazy so I have my old 21 yr old gelding and a pony locked in the corral on grass hay. Our vet said he has seen more founder cases this yr than in forever. I know! Now I am paranoid for all my horses!! Any little wrong step I am like "Oh no! Not you too!"
That is what I was doing in the beginning when I turned them out. Now they are doing that on there own. They stay up near the barn in the dry lot area during the day because of the flies and mosquitos and then they head out to pasture at night. |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | I have a friend in Texas who has cutting horses. He turned three mares out on fresh pasture for the first time in the spring and ended up having to put all three down. He has a PhD in Equine Nutrition. I was not very sympathetic as he really knows better than that. You really need to ease them onto spring grass. That being said, it might not be the issue here. It sounds like you are looking at something that happened a month or two ago that has gotten about as bad as it is going to. If so, and the rotation is indeed slight, you should be able to manage the horse at some useful level. They can't take another bout though. Does she stand rocked back on her rear end? Is she sore on both fronts? |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | winwillows - 2014-06-23 11:43 AM I have a friend in Texas who has cutting horses. He turned three mares out on fresh pasture for the first time in the spring and ended up having to put all three down. He has a PhD in Equine Nutrition. I was not very sympathetic as he really knows better than that. You really need to ease them onto spring grass. That being said, it might not be the issue here. It sounds like you are looking at something that happened a month or two ago that has gotten about as bad as it is going to. If so, and the rotation is indeed slight, you should be able to manage the horse at some useful level. They can't take another bout though. Does she stand rocked back on her rear end? Is she sore on both fronts?
She stands sound, walks sound, and her lamenss has gotten better since we had the xrays done and found out the problem but she still is about a 2-3 out of 5 at a trot. When we nerve blocked the lame side she did come up off on the other which I believe is mostly due to the navicular but the main lameness we saw was due to the laminitis so that is what we are currently working on managing and then we will figure out what is the best option for her navicular. Would something like Tildren or IRAP affect her laminits negativily at all? |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | It is likely that the laminitis on one side has caused her to overload the other. Once she gets comfortable on the laminitic foot the other one may stabilize some. I have not worked with Tildren or the IRAP process as I am not a lameness guy. You are going to have to rely on your Vet there. If you need a reference to our company vet about this let me know. I do a lot of work feeding these horses, however, to manage their long term use. Keeping excess weight off is a good thing. You do still need to keep them fit though. I would take away all grain based feed. You can use a little alfalfa (several pounds per feeding) to help your basic grass hay feeding. It would be good to have an analysis of the grass hay you are feeding if you have a consistent supply to know what the sugar levels are. You know I am going to put Renew Gold in there to make up the energy shortage safely. Call if you would like to talk about this. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | CYA Ranch - 2014-06-23 10:30 AM Just Bring It - 2014-06-23 11:12 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2014-06-23 11:07 AM You might give Bob a call at THE or pm me with any questions that I can forward on to him. I have used his NitrOxide supplement on 2 mares with laminitis and they both showed improvement. Both were sold to homes that can manage their issues better so I only fed them for a month, got them to gain weight and feel better for their trip. My stud was too far gone and too rotated for it to do him much good. He had to be put down. It came on fast and we never did figure out why. Scary stuff for sure. We have had so much rain this year that our grass is growing like crazy so I have my old 21 yr old gelding and a pony locked in the corral on grass hay. Our vet said he has seen more founder cases this yr than in forever. I know! Now I am paranoid for all my horses!! Any little wrong step I am like "Oh no! Not you too!"
Ours are in during the day from about 7am to 5pm so we can ride them, then they are turned out-other than the old guy and the pony that are left in. Our youngsters were on it from start to now so they have adjusted well as it grew...but boy I have never seen it like this in all the 14yrs I have been in this area. Rained yesterday am and again at night. I have seen several June's where it only rained twice all month! |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| Just wondering if anyone has used or tried the LaminaSaver and how it worked or didn't work. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Just Bring It - 2014-06-23 12:09 PM
winwillows - 2014-06-23 11:43 AM I have a friend in Texas who has cutting horses. He turned three mares out on fresh pasture for the first time in the spring and ended up having to put all three down. He has a PhD in Equine Nutrition. I was not very sympathetic as he really knows better than that. You really need to ease them onto spring grass. That being said, it might not be the issue here. It sounds like you are looking at something that happened a month or two ago that has gotten about as bad as it is going to. If so, and the rotation is indeed slight, you should be able to manage the horse at some useful level. They can't take another bout though. Does she stand rocked back on her rear end? Is she sore on both fronts?
She stands sound, walks sound, and her lamenss has gotten better since we had the xrays done and found out the problem but she still is about a 2-3 out of 5 at a trot. When we nerve blocked the lame side she did come up off on the other which I believe is mostly due to the navicular but the main lameness we saw was due to the laminitis so that is what we are currently working on managing and then we will figure out what is the best option for her navicular. Would something like Tildren or IRAP affect her laminits negativily at all?
Anything that causes stress or a shift in ph can cause another laminitic episode.
I have one who rotated we cut the tendon to save her, it has been a 3 year ordeal, she will never be a barrel horse, and we are battling an abscess now.
There have been Olympic caliber jumping horses who have foundered had their tendon cut and a year later returned to the same caliber, laminitis is not the end it used to be.
Anyway what I have learned is you need to trim the foot to the coffin bone, which means if the coffin bone is pointing downwards then the toe needs to be pulled back to be parallel with the coffin, generally you have to drop the heels too. It sounds like your vet isn't an expert so I would suggest finding one who is.
There are special pads you can buy they cost around 250 pair designed specifically for acute laminitis these pads keep pressure on the sole not the hoof wall to reduce the stress on the lamania.
It sounds like you are doing things right with feed, no starches, no fermentable foods. Strictly grass hay, if you need to suppliment low starch food look for a low NST level, I add flax high fat content is better.
Banamine is also better then bute, studies have not been completed on previcoxx or equine form to say one way or another. Banamine affects smooth muscle which helps the blood flow to the feet, mine was on banamine 5 cc for about a month. The biggest thing is you need to reduce the inflammatory process as soon and as much as possible for a positive outcome.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | I would get a hold of Bob from THE. He can make something special for you if you need it but to get you started I would buy THE NitrOxide. Because it has a slight rotation you will need to give 2 scoops of it twice a day for 10 days. Then 2 scoops after that each day. I would see if you can get a hold of krystal to get it at a better price. Good Luck! praying for a speedy recovery. |
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Expert
Posts: 4652
| You need to get a product that will dramticly bring blood flow to the laminis. You need to stop the rotation and decrease the inflamation. Also you need to let the horse walk on anything that is soft. Fine gravel etc.
NitrOxide will do that. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Thanks for all the replies. Smartpaks was having a 50% off sale the other day so I ordered some SmartSox which I believe is suppose to increase blood flow to the feet. Has anyone tried or had any luck with this product? |
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