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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | I'm lazy today and don't want to check two threads so am asking two very different questions on here.
1st -- I'm not personally having this issue, but am interested in responses. Two of my friend's 3 horses are stepping off the second barrel on the wrong lead with their hind legs. Since 2 are doing it, that leads me to think its a training/riding issue and not soreness. The newest horse is a retraining project and is coming along fairly well just cruising through, but he doesn't complete the turn without dropping that lead. I'm not sure this horse quite knows the proper way to finish a barrel. Any ideas of what (besides soreness - that is the obvious reason) would cause more than one of the same person's horses to come out crossfiring from the 2nd barrel? I've got videos but I haven't really spotted what's causing the crossfiring.
2nd - Mom and I rescued an older gelding yesterday and my sister-in-law has adopted him as her new buddy. He's in his 20s I'm sure, and has been on pasture with no grain for several years or more, so he's pretty thin but not beyond rehab. He does have a mouth full of teeth and he gobbled up the grain we gave him (small amounts in two separate feedings) yesterday without dropping any or holding his head funny so we think his teeth aren't needing immediate attention. I'm hoping we can hold off getting them worked on for a couple months so he's not a financial burden on them right off. They both started new teaching jobs last week and my brother doesn't get paid until late September. My vet clinic would probably charge it no problem but I hate to pile it on them a day after bringing them a thousand pound pet LOL. Kyle could do without the horses but Rachel enjoys them so he Ok'd this new one. Said the price was right! LOL.
I plan on deworming him later this week and Rachel & I are going to look for a weight builder supplement on Wednesday. TurnLane suggested Farnam's Weight Builder and I think Orschelns sells it so we're going to hope that's true since we have an Orschelns between here & where she teaches. Right now she's feeding him my low starch grain which has alfalfa pellets, a very small amount of oats, soybean meal, cottonseed hull pellets, soy oil and I'm not sure what all else. I have a feeling he's getting plenty of treats too. LOL. We can mix up something specifically for him & Kyle's 20 year old mare if anyone has a suggestion on ingredients or percent of fat & protein etc that we should shoot for. Any advice on restoring Kramer to his previous glory would be appreciated. I'm excited to share the before pictures after a while when we have some progress pics. :) |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
 
Location: MD | #1
IMO, soreness may be the issue and I would be thinking its more from the rider and not the training. Hypothetically speaking, since i don't know this girl or know how she rides, if she is riding not balanced or has a way of riding "wrong" the same way she rides every horse she may be throwing her own horse out of whack. and this is the extreme example: If I'm riding and flopping up and down and have a tendency to lean to the outside or sit harder to the right vs the left.. I would think that would be contributing to a soreness problem where it manipulates the horses muscles or skeletal system.
I could be totally off base but I would think a crooked/unbalanced rider could lead to a horse feeling sore or uncomfortable. and I'm feeling insightful today so I wanna talk.....a lot.  |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Crowned Image - 2014-08-18 11:53 AM #1 IMO, soreness may be the issue and I would be thinking its more from the rider and not the training. Hypothetically speaking, since i don't know this girl or know how she rides, if she is riding not balanced or has a way of riding "wrong" the same way she rides every horse she may be throwing her own horse out of whack. and this is the extreme example: If I'm riding and flopping up and down and have a tendency to lean to the outside or sit harder to the right vs the left.. I would think that would be contributing to a soreness problem where it manipulates the horses muscles or skeletal system. I could be totally off base but I would think a crooked/unbalanced rider could lead to a horse feeling sore or uncomfortable. and I'm feeling insightful today so I wanna talk.....a lot.
I wondered about that too, but the 3rd horse in this person's string isn't doing it. When I've been causing an issue with my riding, it's always shown up on all 3 of mine, even the totally finished solid veteran. Maybe that 3rd horse is just more finished and doing his job no matter what. Hmm.... |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| #2 - I'd start with good quality brome and free choice it to him. Brome can carry 9-10% protein and will help his system come back. Then slowly add higher fat concentrates to his diet - like rice bran. I have had really good luck bringing horses back with good quality forage and just beet pulp and alfalfa cubes - soak 'em together and feed. All of those feeds are things you can pick up at Orschlen's and TSC.
I've seen what you all are capable of when bringing back horses ... I'm sure you guys will bring him back just fine! |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-18 4:20 PM #2 - I'd start with good quality brome and free choice it to him. Brome can carry 9-10% protein and will help his system come back. Then slowly add higher fat concentrates to his diet - like rice bran. I have had really good luck bringing horses back with good quality forage and just beet pulp and alfalfa cubes - soak 'em together and feed. All of those feeds are things you can pick up at Orschlen's and TSC. I've seen what you all are capable of when bringing back horses ... I'm sure you guys will bring him back just fine!
I hope so! My sister-in-law is really excited about having her own horse. My brother grew up with horses but she didn't and since they got married, she has had a lot of fun riding some of mine every so often. I've been keeping my oldest gelding in their pasture most of the summer because she's enjoyed riding him and he's enjoyed having 10 acres of grass to eat! If we can get Kramer rehabbed to where we all feel comfortable riding him, that will be awesome. He's seemed very friendly so far and Rachel said he came running across the pasture to get grain last night so he's obviously feeling all right and he figured out right away that we're all softies and going to love on him every chance we get. He's been ignored for quite a while and is hungry for attention as well as feed. I left them all the rice bran I had - it isn't sold anywhere around here so I have to buy it when I'm up around Kansas City - and they're adding a little bit of it to his grain. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| #1 sounds like maybe she isn't staying centered very well and is throwing her weight causing them to throw their out of whack. I would have to see video though to make a better crack at it. Is she pulling really hard or pulling on their face before they are ready? It almost sounds like she is running (loping) into the barrel and disengaging their hand quarters, swapping the back end lead and throwing it out. The only time I have ever seen that done (on or off the pattern) is riding way forward at the lope and all of a sudden pulling their head around (like a 1 rein stop without the "sit" warning).
I hope that makes sense...lol
#2 I recommend starting with free choice hay, then adding a little bit of alfalfa hay if you can to add weight (temporary) and adding a high fat/ high protein feed at very small volumes to add weight then you can hopefully wean the horse to a cheaper feed (if you want) and just free choice hay. I keep my horses on the high fat/ high protein feed but that's because they are "performance horses" used for "performance needs" (sometimes LOL). If I had a horse that was just supposed to look pretty I would definitely not feed what I'm feeding lol but it will sure put meat on bones. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | #1: my guess is she's pulling on the backside and looking across the barrel trying to rush the finish. Some horses handle that better than others. I have a tendency to make that mistake and some horses aren't fazed by it while others will either bow out or stop their front end and step out in the back end (dropping the lead). |
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Member
Posts: 36
| I would suggest putting him on Forco. Its a digestive fortifier which helps him break down his food better to get all the nutrients out of it. it also helps put weight onand helps reduce the risk of colic, impaction and ulcers. Very reasonable to feed. I sell this product and can drop ship anywhere. message me for price |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-18 6:29 PM #1 sounds like maybe she isn't staying centered very well and is throwing her weight causing them to throw their out of whack. I would have to see video though to make a better crack at it. Is she pulling really hard or pulling on their face before they are ready? It almost sounds like she is running (loping) into the barrel and disengaging their hand quarters, swapping the back end lead and throwing it out. The only time I have ever seen that done (on or off the pattern) is riding way forward at the lope and all of a sudden pulling their head around (like a 1 rein stop without the "sit" warning). I hope that makes sense...lol #2 I recommend starting with free choice hay, then adding a little bit of alfalfa hay if you can to add weight (temporary) and adding a high fat/ high protein feed at very small volumes to add weight then you can hopefully wean the horse to a cheaper feed (if you want) and just free choice hay. I keep my horses on the high fat/ high protein feed but that's because they are "performance horses" used for "performance needs" (sometimes LOL). If I had a horse that was just supposed to look pretty I would definitely not feed what I'm feeding lol but it will sure put meat on bones.
On the first question, I've just rewatched a couple videos - one of an exhibition run and one of a jackpot run from the same night. In the exhibition, the gelding doesn't drop that lead so its got to be something that's going awry at speed and not just during a cruise through. Which makes me feel better about the new horse. The mare I think does it all the time, and on her it could be disengaging the hip and pulling her face around too much too soon. I've not ridden her through the pattern in a while but she's very fussy and doesn't like to be handled a lot.
As far as the rehab project, he's on a 10 acre pasture with two cows, another horse and 3 or 4 llamas so he's getting grass right now in addition to grain. What percent fat & or protein would you recommend? The other mare in the pasture is 20 years old and typically a hard keeper but she's absolutely thriving out there this summer and looks better than she has in years. I can call the co-op who mixes my grain and see what percent fat & protein we're at right now but I don't think its outrageous on either so we can certainly bump it up for the ones who need a few more calories. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-08-18 7:39 PM #1: my guess is she's pulling on the backside and looking across the barrel trying to rush the finish. Some horses handle that better than others. I have a tendency to make that mistake and some horses aren't fazed by it while others will either bow out or stop their front end and step out in the back end (dropping the lead).
That does look & sound like what's going on with the mare. I'm wondering now if the gelding is just not actually rating for the barrel and therefore stepping off when he gets the cue to finish. The gelding is new so they're still learning each other. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-08-18 6:18 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-08-18 4:20 PM #2 - I'd start with good quality brome and free choice it to him. Brome can carry 9-10% protein and will help his system come back. Then slowly add higher fat concentrates to his diet - like rice bran. I have had really good luck bringing horses back with good quality forage and just beet pulp and alfalfa cubes - soak 'em together and feed. All of those feeds are things you can pick up at Orschlen's and TSC. I've seen what you all are capable of when bringing back horses ... I'm sure you guys will bring him back just fine!
I hope so! My sister-in-law is really excited about having her own horse. My brother grew up with horses but she didn't and since they got married, she has had a lot of fun riding some of mine every so often. I've been keeping my oldest gelding in their pasture most of the summer because she's enjoyed riding him and he's enjoyed having 10 acres of grass to eat! If we can get Kramer rehabbed to where we all feel comfortable riding him, that will be awesome. He's seemed very friendly so far and Rachel said he came running across the pasture to get grain last night so he's obviously feeling all right and he figured out right away that we're all softies and going to love on him every chance we get. He's been ignored for quite a while and is hungry for attention as well as feed. I left them all the rice bran I had - it isn't sold anywhere around here so I have to buy it when I'm up around Kansas City - and they're adding a little bit of it to his grain.
Ahhhhh I'm sure he is going to LOVE living with your brother and SIL. It sounds like that is just the place he needs to be! 
Good Luck and I can't wait to see the before and after pictures! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | #1 sounds like a rider error to me. maybe a balance issue. it would be interesting to see someone else ride them and see if it could be corrected.
#2 I would recommend getting the horse on some beet pulp. It is easy to digest and great at add weight and hydrate the horse. I would also put him on THE Muscle Mass with a Senior blend. The senior blend has extra amino acids and herbs so it is easier to digest and helps with absorption. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| rodeowithjoker - 2014-08-19 8:20 AM
RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-18 6:29 PM #1 sounds like maybe she isn't staying centered very well and is throwing her weight causing them to throw their out of whack. I would have to see video though to make a better crack at it. Is she pulling really hard or pulling on their face before they are ready? It almost sounds like she is running (loping) into the barrel and disengaging their hand quarters, swapping the back end lead and throwing it out. The only time I have ever seen that done (on or off the pattern) is riding way forward at the lope and all of a sudden pulling their head around (like a 1 rein stop without the "sit" warning). I hope that makes sense...lol #2 I recommend starting with free choice hay, then adding a little bit of alfalfa hay if you can to add weight (temporary) and adding a high fat/ high protein feed at very small volumes to add weight then you can hopefully wean the horse to a cheaper feed (if you want) and just free choice hay. I keep my horses on the high fat/ high protein feed but that's because they are "performance horses" used for "performance needs" (sometimes LOL). If I had a horse that was just supposed to look pretty I would definitely not feed what I'm feeding lol but it will sure put meat on bones.
On the first question, I've just rewatched a couple videos - one of an exhibition run and one of a jackpot run from the same night. In the exhibition, the gelding doesn't drop that lead so its got to be something that's going awry at speed and not just during a cruise through. Which makes me feel better about the new horse. The mare I think does it all the time, and on her it could be disengaging the hip and pulling her face around too much too soon. I've not ridden her through the pattern in a while but she's very fussy and doesn't like to be handled a lot.
As far as the rehab project, he's on a 10 acre pasture with two cows, another horse and 3 or 4 llamas so he's getting grass right now in addition to grain. What percent fat & or protein would you recommend? The other mare in the pasture is 20 years old and typically a hard keeper but she's absolutely thriving out there this summer and looks better than she has in years. I can call the co-op who mixes my grain and see what percent fat & protein we're at right now but I don't think its outrageous on either so we can certainly bump it up for the ones who need a few more calories.
I have a mare that if you touch her face at all going around the 1st barrel you will disengage the hindquarter and she will get mad at you and almost purposefully stall out in the back end. I just run in and bump her and give it back and use my outside foot if I have to. She is a WITCH about her face. If the gelding is only doing it as speed I wonder if his speed is throwing her off balance and that is throwing him of balance or the other way around, he could just not be handling the "turning going fast" very well and throwing himself out of whack. Does he stay collected?
As for the grain, don't be scared LOL. I feed Renew Gold that is 15/15. I feed1lb per day per horse. ADM also makes a feed called MoorGlo that is 18 or 19% fat. I think Purina makes Amplify nuggets? that are high in fat. You could start with 1/2lb a day and work up to the feeding directions per the bag and feed that until you have the weight you want then slowly switch to something cheaper and just use it as an "if/ when he/she needs a little extra" |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-19 11:56 AM rodeowithjoker - 2014-08-19 8:20 AM RoaniePonie11 - 2014-08-18 6:29 PM #1 sounds like maybe she isn't staying centered very well and is throwing her weight causing them to throw their out of whack. I would have to see video though to make a better crack at it. Is she pulling really hard or pulling on their face before they are ready? It almost sounds like she is running (loping) into the barrel and disengaging their hand quarters, swapping the back end lead and throwing it out. The only time I have ever seen that done (on or off the pattern) is riding way forward at the lope and all of a sudden pulling their head around (like a 1 rein stop without the "sit" warning). I hope that makes sense...lol #2 I recommend starting with free choice hay, then adding a little bit of alfalfa hay if you can to add weight (temporary) and adding a high fat/ high protein feed at very small volumes to add weight then you can hopefully wean the horse to a cheaper feed (if you want) and just free choice hay. I keep my horses on the high fat/ high protein feed but that's because they are "performance horses" used for "performance needs" (sometimes LOL). If I had a horse that was just supposed to look pretty I would definitely not feed what I'm feeding lol but it will sure put meat on bones. On the first question, I've just rewatched a couple videos - one of an exhibition run and one of a jackpot run from the same night. In the exhibition, the gelding doesn't drop that lead so its got to be something that's going awry at speed and not just during a cruise through. Which makes me feel better about the new horse. The mare I think does it all the time, and on her it could be disengaging the hip and pulling her face around too much too soon. I've not ridden her through the pattern in a while but she's very fussy and doesn't like to be handled a lot.
As far as the rehab project, he's on a 10 acre pasture with two cows, another horse and 3 or 4 llamas so he's getting grass right now in addition to grain. What percent fat & or protein would you recommend? The other mare in the pasture is 20 years old and typically a hard keeper but she's absolutely thriving out there this summer and looks better than she has in years. I can call the co-op who mixes my grain and see what percent fat & protein we're at right now but I don't think its outrageous on either so we can certainly bump it up for the ones who need a few more calories. I have a mare that if you touch her face at all going around the 1st barrel you will disengage the hindquarter and she will get mad at you and almost purposefully stall out in the back end. I just run in and bump her and give it back and use my outside foot if I have to. She is a WITCH about her face. If the gelding is only doing it as speed I wonder if his speed is throwing her off balance and that is throwing him of balance or the other way around, he could just not be handling the "turning going fast" very well and throwing himself out of whack. Does he stay collected? As for the grain, don't be scared LOL. I feed Renew Gold that is 15/15. I feed1lb per day per horse. ADM also makes a feed called MoorGlo that is 18 or 19% fat. I think Purina makes Amplify nuggets? that are high in fat. You could start with 1/2lb a day and work up to the feeding directions per the bag and feed that until you have the weight you want then slowly switch to something cheaper and just use it as an "if/ when he/she needs a little extra"
Staying collected is something the gelding needs work on. He was purchased as a retraining/re-tuning project and he tends to lose his brain a little going fast. Previous owners ran him in a tight tiedown and a pretty strong bit. Current owner is using a 3-piece smooth mouth argentine snaffle type bit with a roller in the middle, so its a lot lighter, and no tiedown. I do think that the mare is a brat about her face and that's a big part of their problem. She's also a pretty free runner so its got to be tough to trust her to come around & finish a barrel. I know I have trouble riding one that wants to run real free.
Grain wise, that percent protein & fat helps me. I will holler at Co-op and have them look at my mix sheet because I know the manager figured up percent protein & fat for me when we brewed up the current mix. Then we can probably tweak it easily to bump numbers up as needed. We don't have a lot of premixed horse feed options around here so I just get everything custom mixed 500 pounds at a time. Since we've got 3 20+ year olds and a big rangy 12 year old who could still use a little more weight, we can sure use a high fat feed for those and keep my two finished horses on the current low starch ration. |
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