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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 721
 
Location: The Great West | There are videos about this on the martin saddlery website, Stingray wears a 9" gullet.
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  Extreme Veteran
Posts: 461
Location: Illinois | I just went and watched the Sherry Cervi video on the Martin website and the philosophy really does make sense. I grew up riding gaited horses and was always taught to put the saddle behind the shoulder to free them up to gait better. Then when I started riding quarter horses again I was taught to put the saddle more forward. I slipped my saddle back to behind her shoulders last night and it was completely dry under her saddle so I may not have worked her into a good enough sweat to see if there was any dry spots. I think her shoulders are wider than her back so that could be an interesting fit. She is 15 so she may have some muscle loss too. I am thinking the 9" gullet would be a good fit for her. Like I said when I put my hand under the saddle with no pad I couldn't slide it under the conchos because it was to tight. Now I just have to decide Crown C or FX3. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | livinonlove&horses - 2014-10-23 10:19 PM For those of you riding the bigger gullets do you feel like you are sitting on a 55 gallon barrel? I have an 8.5" gullet and feel like I have a hard time using my legs. I'm short so that doesn't help but that's the one thing I hate about the saddle. I have a new horse and this saddle is way to big. Rolls big time. No muscle atrophy. I've considered getting a smaller gullet crown c but hate the "riding a barrel" feeling I have now.
I was worried about this when I bought my 8.5, but I honestly couldn't tell a difference.... could be that I'm 5'9". I haven't been able to sit in anything bigger than 9.5 or might have a change of mind! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 461
Location: Illinois | cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 10:05 PM
Ethel - 2014-10-23 9:19 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 9:01 PM Ethel - 2014-10-23 8:47 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 7:48 PM Ethel - 2014-10-23 6:03 PM To be honest and in my opinion(which you can take or leave), it is more about the bars than the gullet. You can make a saddle with a gullet width of 6 3/4 fit a Clydesdale if the bars are flat and wide enough.. Most all of the pro calf ropers like the Billy Don Hogg calf roping saddles.. They are the Rolls Royce of saddles to them.. They are all 6 1/2 in the gullet..So are Howard Council's. Those calf roping horses are not any wider or bigger than most barrel horses.. If your saddle is rocking up in the back end it is more than likely too wide in the front end.. Your comment about the saddle rocking forward being too wide. Not necessarily if the horse has a fairly flat back the saddle may have too much rock in the bars. If you are interested in crown c, speak with Brian or Tracy and learn the philosophy behind the saddle. If your horse does have a flat back you will need to custom order a flat bar crown c, as their regular tree has a lot of rock. You're right.. It could, if it has too much bridging (rock ) But, if it has too much bridging and is rocking and the back end is up in the air, it is not distributing the pressure evenly. I just always wonder how many ropers have a 9 or a 10 inch gullet.. Why is it that only barrel horses seem to need them? Most roping saddles fit a whole lot of horses, and fit them well.. It seems to me that if anybody needed a saddle that put even pressure on a horses back it would be a calf roper a team roper or a steer tripper but, I honestly don't know of any that have more than a 7 wide at the most. My husbands horse stand 15.2 and weighs 1,350 and he steer trips on him.. He uses a 7 wide through the gullet.. We raised heading horses and raised some big ones, two won the PRCA/AQHA Heading Horse of the Year at the NFR and we never had one use anything wider than a 7. You can order a 6 3/4 or a 7 wide and get the "flat bar" Crown C if your horse has a flat back and I think it would more than likely fit, but, I don't think you would ever need a 8,9 or 10 wide. Like I said it is just my opinion.. :- ) If you look at a roping saddle versus a barrel saddle you will see the angle of the bars is much wider in the roping saddle and it has nothing to do with the gullet. Martin doesn't use this philosophy so they can't be compared. My average built horse wears a 10 regular bar crown c, my wide mutton withered horse wears a 11 flat tree, it is the only saddle that doesn't sore her up or cause atrophy. Neither horse is shimmed. Martin is not for everybody, but it does work for me. Also there are not many saddle companies that offer a flat bar. Martin allows for a lot of choices, instead of one tree to fit a flat backed horse such as Caldwell, Sloan, Melta Brown. I have also noticed the English world is now promoting the same philosophy as Martin, placing the saddle behind the shoulder, this is done with a special cinch.
My experience with crown c is a flat bar will fit even a horse with high wither.
I find a horse whose back ties in low to the wither (sway backed looking ) is what the regular bar fits best.
I also find most horses are a 9.5, my 4 yr old is a 9.5, I borrowed a friends to try, so I am debating on getting a 10 and shimming or a 9.5 (this seems to fit my younger horses fairly well ) and if she fills out more shimming the 11 to fit.
I have realized that there is not a one saddle fits all. Luckily I am drawn to big shouldered flat backed horses, so I can get a few saddles and fit most horses well
Do you think my mare is "sway backed looking"? Or has a shoulder that ties in low?
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 392
Location: CA | livinonlove&horses - 2014-10-23 8:19 PM
 For those of you riding the bigger gullets do you feel like you are sitting on a 55 gallon barrel?  I have an 8.5" gullet and feel like I have a hard time using my legs. I'm short so that doesn't help but that's the one thing I hate about the saddle. I have a new horse and this saddle is way to big. Rolls big time. No muscle atrophy. I've considered getting a smaller gullet crown c but hate the "riding a barrel" feeling I have now.Â
The only time I have had saddles roll was when hey were to narrow. My saddle is a 9 and i dont notice that its wider then other saddles. Im 5'5"
In reponse to someone else who mentioned their horse being cold backed. I have a mare i am riding now and i think my 9 isnt fitting right. Shes 14.2 and stocky. I normally use a saddleright with a shim and its leaving large dry spots on her whithers. I thought to try my 1 inch ed wright. I didnt think the saddle was to wide but i thought oh what the heck i will try it. From the moment I asked for a trot she felt different. She was short strided and choppy. I didnt ride her for long that day since she did not feel quite right. The next day she was very crabby when I went to saddle her. She has never behaved like that before. She had not been cinchy at all before that. I rode her in the saddle right and she has been back to her normal smooth strided self and happy when she is saddled. Honestly I was surprised at how quickly she responded to the thicker pad, she did not like it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| ShortyHorse11 - 2014-10-24 10:03 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 10:05 PM
Ethel - 2014-10-23 9:19 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 9:01 PM Ethel - 2014-10-23 8:47 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-23 7:48 PM Ethel - 2014-10-23 6:03 PM To be honest and in my opinion(which you can take or leave), it is more about the bars than the gullet. You can make a saddle with a gullet width of 6 3/4 fit a Clydesdale if the bars are flat and wide enough.. Most all of the pro calf ropers like the Billy Don Hogg calf roping saddles.. They are the Rolls Royce of saddles to them.. They are all 6 1/2 in the gullet..So are Howard Council's. Those calf roping horses are not any wider or bigger than most barrel horses.. If your saddle is rocking up in the back end it is more than likely too wide in the front end.. Your comment about the saddle rocking forward being too wide. Not necessarily if the horse has a fairly flat back the saddle may have too much rock in the bars. If you are interested in crown c, speak with Brian or Tracy and learn the philosophy behind the saddle. If your horse does have a flat back you will need to custom order a flat bar crown c, as their regular tree has a lot of rock. You're right.. It could, if it has too much bridging (rock ) But, if it has too much bridging and is rocking and the back end is up in the air, it is not distributing the pressure evenly. I just always wonder how many ropers have a 9 or a 10 inch gullet.. Why is it that only barrel horses seem to need them? Most roping saddles fit a whole lot of horses, and fit them well.. It seems to me that if anybody needed a saddle that put even pressure on a horses back it would be a calf roper a team roper or a steer tripper but, I honestly don't know of any that have more than a 7 wide at the most. My husbands horse stand 15.2 and weighs 1,350 and he steer trips on him.. He uses a 7 wide through the gullet.. We raised heading horses and raised some big ones, two won the PRCA/AQHA Heading Horse of the Year at the NFR and we never had one use anything wider than a 7. You can order a 6 3/4 or a 7 wide and get the "flat bar" Crown C if your horse has a flat back and I think it would more than likely fit, but, I don't think you would ever need a 8,9 or 10 wide. Like I said it is just my opinion.. :- ) If you look at a roping saddle versus a barrel saddle you will see the angle of the bars is much wider in the roping saddle and it has nothing to do with the gullet. Martin doesn't use this philosophy so they can't be compared. My average built horse wears a 10 regular bar crown c, my wide mutton withered horse wears a 11 flat tree, it is the only saddle that doesn't sore her up or cause atrophy. Neither horse is shimmed. Martin is not for everybody, but it does work for me. Also there are not many saddle companies that offer a flat bar. Martin allows for a lot of choices, instead of one tree to fit a flat backed horse such as Caldwell, Sloan, Melta Brown. I have also noticed the English world is now promoting the same philosophy as Martin, placing the saddle behind the shoulder, this is done with a special cinch.
My experience with crown c is a flat bar will fit even a horse with high wither.
I find a horse whose back ties in low to the wither (sway backed looking ) is what the regular bar fits best.
I also find most horses are a 9.5, my 4 yr old is a 9.5, I borrowed a friends to try, so I am debating on getting a 10 and shimming or a 9.5 (this seems to fit my younger horses fairly well ) and if she fills out more shimming the 11 to fit.
I have realized that there is not a one saddle fits all. Luckily I am drawn to big shouldered flat backed horses, so I can get a few saddles and fit most horses well
Do you think my mare is "sway backed looking"? Or has a shoulder that ties in low?
I think your horse would do well with the regular tree, I do suggest trying before you buy. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I would try several saddles before ordering one with an oversized gullet. I'm on the same page as Ethel - sorry, but if you have to shim, then your saddle doesn't truely fit. The angle of the bars of a tree is SOOO important!!! It's not all about gullet width. Generally, if your saddle is popping up in back, then it's too wide. For a saddle to fit behind the shoulder (and none of my English trainer friends are doing anything different lately...and they ride the ASHA A circut)...it doesn't require a ginormous gullet.
Based on what I'm seeing the majority of top barrel trainers riding now...I'd try a double j, coats or shiloh. They're going to ride what works.... Look at what they're doing and the rest of the nfr girls.
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | drivemaround - 2014-10-25 7:50 PM
livinonlove&horses - 2014-10-23 8:19 PM
 For those of you riding the bigger gullets do you feel like you are sitting on a 55 gallon barrel?  I have an 8.5" gullet and feel like I have a hard time using my legs. I'm short so that doesn't help but that's the one thing I hate about the saddle. I have a new horse and this saddle is way to big. Rolls big time. No muscle atrophy. I've considered getting a smaller gullet crown c but hate the "riding a barrel" feeling I have now.Â
The only time I have had saddles roll was when hey were to narrow. My saddle is a 9 and i dont notice that its wider then other saddles. Im 5'5"
In reponse to someone else who mentioned their horse being cold backed. I have a mare i am riding now and i think my 9 isnt fitting right. Shes 14.2 and stocky. I normally use a saddleright with a shim and its leaving large dry spots on her whithers. I thought to try my 1 inch ed wright. I didnt think the saddle was to wide but i thought oh what the heck i will try it. From the moment I asked for a trot she felt different. She was short strided and choppy. I didnt ride her for long that day since she did not feel quite right. The next day she was very crabby when I went to saddle her. She has never behaved like that before. She had not been cinchy at all before that. I rode her in the saddle right and she has been back to her normal smooth strided self and happy when she is saddled. Honestly I was surprised at how quickly she responded to the thicker pad, she did not like it.
I'm 5'5" and it feels weird to me. My friend rode it too and she says it feels weird. The saddle swallows my new mare. I demoed a double j standard tree and it fit great and it doesn't feel wide to me |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 461
Location: Illinois | I went for a 3 hour trail ride yesterday and my mare got real nice and sweaty. When I pulled the saddle off she had a little tiny dry spot behind her right shoulder and the hair behind her left shoulder was all ruffled up. I had the saddle further back behind her shoulder like martins are supposed to go. So I guess that means that she is getting pinched? The ruffled hair and tiny drdry spot I can't imagine is good. And as she gets in shape I am assuming she is going to fill out more. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 461
Location: Illinois | I agree about the shims? Why get a saddle you just have to modify? Shouldn't you be getting one with a correct size? I was thinking a double j would be a good choice or a coats. They all have so many different trees too! It's all so confusing! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | As far as the shimming questions..... It's not that the saddle doesn't fit, the horse isn't the same width all the way from his wither/should to the loin. If you use a narrower gullet that "fits", then its too small over the loin where he is wider. The thought with this is to get a saddle that fits the widest part of the back and then shim to correct where the horse needs to fill in and build muscle back up from improper saddle fit. Watch the Sherry Cervi video as mentioned above in this thread or go to her website. It explains this very clearly.... |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | JLBerry - 2014-10-27 10:31 AM As far as the shimming questions..... It's not that the saddle doesn't fit, the horse isn't the same width all the way from his wither/should to the loin. If you use a narrower gullet that "fits", then its too small over the loin where he is wider. The thought with this is to get a saddle that fits the widest part of the back and then shim to correct where the horse needs to fill in and build muscle back up from improper saddle fit. Watch the Sherry Cervi video as mentioned above in this thread or go to her website. It explains this very clearly....
Or get a tree with different angled bars that actually fits the horse.....if it fits, you don't need shims. It's not all about gullet width.
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