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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
   
| cstone - 2014-10-29 2:53 PM
Curious, did you pick the horse up or use a transporter?
I was wondering that same thing too. This might sound pretty crazy BUT....is it possible you somehow ended up with the wrong mare? Sounds crazy I know, but if she's solid sorrel or bay with no other markings it could happen quite easily. Actually if she has a star and socks it could happen quite easily too. Do her markings match the mare you have known for years and do the markings match her papers? Just throwing this out there....please keep us all updated. If you figure out what's going on it could be good info to learn from for the rest of us. Hang in there and keep trying different things...I know how frustrated you must be though. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | GoTreeless - 2014-10-25 9:11 AM Hi All:
Will try to make this as short as possible ! Bought a new 9 year old mare July 5. Brought her from FL to GA - she sat back HARD on the trailer and cut her foot 3 days after arriving needing 12 staples at the pastern. 3 days of stall rest - lightly buted - then in stall during the day and out at night - her normal routine from FL. She came from small acreage (but this mare has been VERY WELL taken care of) to here in GA with large gorgeous pasture - knee high bermuda grass. Didn't change her routine - put her on a less HOT grain - kept her on minimal alfalfa hay. Tried to ride her after vet OKd and you could not get near her with the saddle. REARING, EYES WIDE, BODY STIFF AS A BOARD. I have known this mare the last 4 years - this is a total attitude change. Had chiro out - he worked on her twice in 2 1/2 week span - she had some issues - he released her - said she was good to go. Same thing with trying to saddle - but not as dramatic. I did find out where she is the barn was on city water with extremely high chlorine content. That has since been fixed - about 3 weeks now. I am leaning towards gut/ulcers. Have been treating her with Gastrogard, heavy Probiotics, just started FORCO (1 week) and SmartPak Ultra GI (1week). Took her off all grain - she is now on a scoop of alfalfa pellets 2x day and no stall - 24/7 turn out. I am so frustrated/disgusted - i have been on this mare 20 mins since I bought her almost 4 months ago. When I was able to saddle her and felt comfortable getting on her - she was stiff as a board - flightly - scared of everything - flipping her head (with a light hackamore and I am light handed) , lightly trotted and the mare had her head turned outside and over the rails of the round pen. This mare went from winning to not being rideable at all. !
Former owner no help ! and again I KNOW this horse. Any suggestions ???
this wont help all matters but I would put her Bakc to her routine she was used to and back on a high fat diet . not alfalfa pellets.. if anything give her hay instead.forage is better then the pellets.
also some horses like to be stalled and feel more secure . a routine she was in might help her feel more secure.structure is a good thing. I dont care that shes been hauled everywhere. she was always returned home to her safety zone.. home.. and her stall..
shes been thru hell it sounds like coming from a routine she was used to and a owner she was used to.
I agree on other things but I would also change my daily plan with her as well..did someone say she was on regumate and removed suddenly? i couldnt find that on your posts.. if so hormones could be a culprit.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-10-30 8:54 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 325
Location: Florida | Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-29 3:47 PM GoTreeless - 2014-10-29 2:33 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-29 3:30 PM GoTreeless - 2014-10-29 2:24 PM Southtxponygirl - 2014-10-28 10:55 PM Hummm, could you maybe get the past owner to come see her and ride her for you to see how the mare would do for her? Or haul her to the lady and see if they still click? I would LOVE that !! However she is 10 hours away. When I contacted her about helping me possibly sell her - she was more concerned about how much I was going to pay her rather than the horses welfare; so dead end there. 
Believe me I have lost a TON of sleep over all this....she was not a cheap mare which makes it that much worse. :(
Thank you ! I appreciate your compassion and advice !!
This mare has been VERY WELL taken care of and not ran to death ! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 325
Location: Florida | Used2B - 2014-10-30 9:41 AM cstone - 2014-10-29 2:53 PM Curious, did you pick the horse up or use a transporter? I was wondering that same thing too. This might sound pretty crazy BUT....is it possible you somehow ended up with the wrong mare? Sounds crazy I know, but if she's solid sorrel or bay with no other markings it could happen quite easily. Actually if she has a star and socks it could happen quite easily too. Do her markings match the mare you have known for years and do the markings match her papers? Just throwing this out there....please keep us all updated. If you figure out what's going on it could be good info to learn from for the rest of us. Hang in there and keep trying different things...I know how frustrated you must be though.
GREAT thought ! Yes, I did meet her and picked her up....so I know I got the right horse....except in my case it isn't the same horse at all !! LOL
I should have known though - she didn't want to leave the mare she traveled with (the girl only had the 2 horses) though she is definitely not buddy sour ! She didn't want to load into my trailer - come to think of it she almost acted the same way she is now for me to saddle and try to ride her....hmmmmm.! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 325
Location: Florida | Bibliafarm - 2014-10-30 9:52 AM GoTreeless - 2014-10-25 9:11 AM Hi All:
Will try to make this as short as possible ! Bought a new 9 year old mare July 5. Brought her from FL to GA - she sat back HARD on the trailer and cut her foot 3 days after arriving needing 12 staples at the pastern. 3 days of stall rest - lightly buted - then in stall during the day and out at night - her normal routine from FL. She came from small acreage (but this mare has been VERY WELL taken care of) to here in GA with large gorgeous pasture - knee high bermuda grass. Didn't change her routine - put her on a less HOT grain - kept her on minimal alfalfa hay. Tried to ride her after vet OKd and you could not get near her with the saddle. REARING, EYES WIDE, BODY STIFF AS A BOARD. I have known this mare the last 4 years - this is a total attitude change. Had chiro out - he worked on her twice in 2 1/2 week span - she had some issues - he released her - said she was good to go. Same thing with trying to saddle - but not as dramatic. I did find out where she is the barn was on city water with extremely high chlorine content. That has since been fixed - about 3 weeks now. I am leaning towards gut/ulcers. Have been treating her with Gastrogard, heavy Probiotics, just started FORCO (1 week) and SmartPak Ultra GI (1week). Took her off all grain - she is now on a scoop of alfalfa pellets 2x day and no stall - 24/7 turn out. I am so frustrated/disgusted - i have been on this mare 20 mins since I bought her almost 4 months ago. When I was able to saddle her and felt comfortable getting on her - she was stiff as a board - flightly - scared of everything - flipping her head (with a light hackamore and I am light handed) , lightly trotted and the mare had her head turned outside and over the rails of the round pen. This mare went from winning to not being rideable at all. !
Former owner no help ! and again I KNOW this horse. Any suggestions ???
this wont help all matters but I would put her Bakc to her routine she was used to and back on a high fat diet . not alfalfa pellets.. if anything give her hay instead.forage is better then the pellets.
also some horses like to be stalled and feel more secure . a routine she was in might help her feel more secure.structure is a good thing. I dont care that shes been hauled everywhere. she was always returned home to her safety zone.. home.. and her stall..
shes been thru hell it sounds like coming from a routine she was used to and a owner she was used to.
I agree on other things but I would also change my daily plan with her as well..did someone say she was on regumate and removed suddenly? i couldnt find that on your posts.. if so hormones could be a culprit.
I did start out with her exact routine, hay, feed, stall - everything - she was BAT **** crazier !!! Then I took her off the alfalfa hay - thinking too high with the grass here. She got even worse...I started trying calming things - magnesium - ultra calm from Smart Pak - raspberry leaves - you name it....
She seemed to be very very anxious in the stall - she would sweat from the anxiety - behind her ears - above her eyes - in her flank area....
It was suggested that she was possibly on Regumate by a fellow board member - but previous owner swears she was never on anything for calming, mare issues, etc. etc....I am at a loss..
I worked her yesterday - put the pad on her - went to get saddle - finally got it on her and cinched - very loose just so it doesn't fall totally off - all this after dancing around like a lunatic for 5-7 minutes - then she tried to buckle her knees in the center of the aisle like she was going to lay down twice...I just ignored her.... Got the lunge line and S hack - went to the round pen and worked her for a good 30 minutes...she responded alot better; actually kept one ear on me lunging and riding - licking and chewing. But her movements are tense, jerky and just a general OMG !! I can't ever see me getting out of the round pen with her - let alone a barrel race !!
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Veteran
Posts: 180
| I have a really calm mare. One day last summer she kicked up while loping. I thought she was just fresh. Next day went out and rode on mesa at the same place as always. Became a maniac.
Walked on foot back to trailer. Then the sun hit her ears just right and I saw something in there. Good thing she let me put my finger in there. I bet I pulled at least 20 ticks out of each ear. Treated and back to normal.
I now check. My vet explained they can really effect a horse neurologically. I am just glad she is easy to treat.
She is back to her dependable self as long as I keep a handle on this.
Just a thought. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
| Hang in there with her and scope her for ulcers or just go ahead and treat her. I had a mare I got a few years ago that was pretty sweet and laid back but when I sent her for barrel training she came back a total spook and did a lot of the things you're saying your mare is doing. It took a good solid month before she was ok. I have a barn helper and even he was shocked at how spooky she came back. I did turn her out for a while, a couple of months, before I started to really ride and work with her. She is 90% better today. She does have her spooky moments on rides but she's very manageable. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Go treeless have you started treating her for ulcers?
Cinching up and a horse going down to knees is a big red light this horse is in pain.
I also don't agree with working a horse in pain, as you are just reinforcing negativity, therefore the negative cycle continues, and it will me even more difficult to cure the ulcers as pain can exacerbate ulcers even if it is ulcer pain. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-10-30 7:41 PM Go treeless have you started treating her for ulcers? Cinching up and a horse going down to knees is a big red light this horse is in pain. I also don't agree with working a horse in pain, as you are just reinforcing negativity, therefore the negative cycle continues, and it will me even more difficult to cure the ulcers as pain can exacerbate ulcers even if it is ulcer pain.
Agree with the pain issue, to me theres pain from being cinched up to fast and tight or she does have uclers, going down on her knees does mean something to me. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 325
Location: Florida | cheryl makofka - 2014-10-30 8:41 PM Go treeless have you started treating her for ulcers? Cinching up and a horse going down to knees is a big red light this horse is in pain. I also don't agree with working a horse in pain, as you are just reinforcing negativity, therefore the negative cycle continues, and it will me even more difficult to cure the ulcers as pain can exacerbate ulcers even if it is ulcer pain.
Yes, I have been treating her for ulcers. She has the same behavior if you are trying to brush her, going to get the brushes, saddle, etc. etc. etc.
Even just sitting the saddle on her - no girth. I have worked her lightly 5 times this week. Starting with easy lunging and just walking and trying to slow trot in the round pen.
She has basically been doing nothing since I bought her the 1st of July - as all this started really immediately and of course she needed time off for the cut to heal.
She appears fine in the pasture.
She has been on heavy probiotics since day 1, Forco and Gastrogard almost 3 weeks now - and SmartPak Ultra GI.
If I can explain this right - her eye goes between a deer in the head light worried look to a mean look with heavy wrinkling above her eyes. Rarely is her eye nice, soft and kind like the horse that I know she is ! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 325
Location: Florida | royaldimple - 2014-10-30 3:41 PM
I have a really calm mare. One day last summer she kicked up while loping. I thought she was just fresh. Next day went out and rode on mesa at the same place as always. Became a maniac.
Walked on foot back to trailer. Then the sun hit her ears just right and I saw something in there. Good thing she let me put my finger in there. I bet I pulled at least 20 ticks out of each ear. Treated and back to normal.
I now check. My vet explained they can really effect a horse neurologically. I am just glad she is easy to treat.
She is back to her dependable self as long as I keep a handle on this.
Just a thought.
Thank you for the idea ! I was rubbing her ears the day before....she wasn't bothered but I will for sure take a closer look. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | check saddle to and Id check her ovaries.do a blood workup. grabbing at straws but id do it.normally you can say attitude but the fact she buckled when cinched and on crossties .. makes it differant .. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | you have had this mare for 3 months or close to it..and tried a lot of different things..but have you actually given them any time to work, some of the things you are trying take more than a month to actually work..........maybe slow things down for her a bit..pony her take her out and about....if she were mine, id take her off all the stuff you have her on, except hay.......and give her a good honest round of ulcer cure and go from there.....
good luck
m |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | One time I bought a horse and came home and told my husband he would be proud of me--I made a good, sensible buy. Meaning I didn't get a flashy flame-breathing "horse with a little spirit" like I usually did and who were usually trouble. This time I was being sensible. Plain, ordinary, well-behaved little sorrel ridden by a kid. As soon as I got her home, she went nuts. A lot of the same stuff you describe. She used to do what I call a "combo"--a rear, buck, and whirl all at the same time. One time she pulled back and reared when I was cinching her up (and believe me, I go SLOW) and she fell over backwards onto the saddle. We also tried everything. I even hired someone to come over and help me because I was losing my confidence. Finally I sold her to someone back at the boarding stable where she had come from. He knew her and was glad to get her. She never gave him an ounce of trouble. We went over and over it. She lived her whole life at that stable. I didn't have any other horses on my property when I got her but she could see my neighbor's horses. Maybe it wasn't close enough. And she missed her herd. That's all we can think.
Another time I bought a large pony who was perfectly fine at home and at some shows but one day at a show she acted crazy. Everytime we took her to this particular place, she'd go nuts. Someone told us that someone else on the grounds was riding a stallion. Maybe it was that. I don't know. Could either one of these situations be a possibility?
I also thought of the Regumate.
I also can't help thinking the prior owners had her drugged. Even if you knew the horse, you don't always know what people are doing behind the scenes. When I used Ace on a horse one time, no one else knew it.
I'm sure it's not you. You sound like you know what you're doing. The good news is you know she has the potential to be good because you've seen it. Now you just have to figure out how to get it again. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | If she were mine, I would send in hair samples to test for PSSM1 - cost is only $40.00 Animal Genetics.
I would also quit trying to ride her and just spend time with her: in her stall/dry lot, walking around with a halter and lead, just meandering. Sounds to me like she is picking up on your frustration and irratation and she feels rushed or pushed and she is not trusting you at all. She may be equating you to her pain issues (leg, ulcers, whatever), which is only escalating the her problems. Her flight instincts are in overdrive.
You'll have to show her a lot of patience to turn this around. Last resort, you may want to call an animal communicator if you believe in that would help.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | Maybe this is already in here and I overlooked it, but curious, did you ride her at a show or at the lady's property before you purchased her and brought her home? How long had that lady had her prior to you purchasing her? |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | I feel for you. I know this is very flustrating. I do agree with mruggles. Go back to square one and give things a chance to work. I have done what you are doing out of sheer flustration and finally realized that by throwing several different things at the horse at one time - if there was improvement I really had not idea if it was something I tried - or which one of them it was. Treating for ulcers will ceratinly not hurt the horse and it is cheaper in the long run to treat than to scope if uclers are the problem. Having said that - it is also cheaper in the long run to take the horse to a vet and try to get the bottom of the problem. If you decide to try to solve the issue yourself I would contact the owner of Sliver Lining Herbs and talk to him about your horse and her behavior. I really like their products. Best of luck to you. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | She seemed to be very very anxious in the stall - she would sweat from the anxiety - behind her ears - above her eyes - in her flank area....This sentence bothers me. and the fact she went down when being saddle. I would have blood drawn and go from there. It seems your horse is having a reaction( possibly) feed or a parsite causing it. If your over dosing any of the feed products it could be toxic to your horse and it could cause the problems you are having.You need to bond with this horse she is probably associating you with a badly cut foot. |
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Member
Posts: 9
| Did you have her undergo a vet exam before you bought her? Mod importantly did you get a blood test done? Bought a horse and had something similar happen. Ended up she was on a long acting sedative (one shot every 30 days) that I didn't know about. (I never got the blood test done.) Also, invest maybe in a companion. Like a goat. My horses all love their goat. |
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