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Veteran
Posts: 203
| My yearling gelding is one of the worst cribbers I've ever seen. He will try and suck air off anything!
I have owned him since he was a foal. I have no other cribbers on my property and his dam wasn't a cribber. I've never had a cribber before so this is new to me. I have tried a standard cribbing collar and he doesn't even act like it's there. The only thing that keeps him from cribbing temporarily is a grazing muzzle and I'm well aware I ca t leave that on him all the time. He is turned out in pasture all day and in a 45×60 corral at night so he isn't stall bound. Never been in a stall since he was weaned.
I'm at a loss and don't know what else to try. I don't want him destroying himself. Any advice on things to try are appreciated. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
    
Location: Broxton, Ga | L&W Bits sell a cribbing collar that resembles a dog collar.......I use the one that buckles it is easier to adjust and stays had issues with the one with Velcro........
That is really all you can do.........once a cribber always........at least with mine.......... |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | Since he is so young I would try to treat him for ulcers or look for any pain issue that might have triggered it. Is he alone? maybe a buddy or at least some fun toys? Then the only collar that I have found that works is the DARE collar. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | being a yearling that is already doing that would really make me think ulcers |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | Paint everything with Dawn dish soap! Years ago someone on here told me and it worked great! Just passing on the knowledge. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i agree ulcers or a lack of something...
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I have 2, one of which I've had for 21 years.
There's a ton of articles out there that talk about cribbing being a response to pain __ I agree on a source of pain and ulcers making it worse. I had tried miracle collars, different supplements, turnout, etc and nothing worked. When I was having appetite issues I tried Gut Proof herbs for the appetite issue only and a side effect was that he went from cribbing every 2-3 bites to hardly cribbing at all. It helped the appetite issues and if I could afford it, he'd still be on it.
Molassas, beet pulp (even the non-molassas kind) and joint supplements make cribbing worse. For whatever reason those things seem to irritate their gut and I've seen an increase when feeding those things. Flax and herbs that promote healing and mucous in the gut seem to help. |
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Veteran
Posts: 203
| Thanks everyone. I will talk to my vet about ulcers. He has buddies in the pasture during the day and I used to corral him at night with my 2yr old but I started separating when I bring them off pasture because I don't want her to start cribbing.
Don't mind the ignorance but how could a horse so young develop ulcers? This possibility is new to me, never had a cribber or a horse with ulcers. I know it isn't a for sure diagnosis yet but..
And I don't think it's pain, but I could be wrong. Thanks for all the ideas, I have somewhere to go now.
Also, if vet finds it is ulcers.. what are the best supplements to help with ulcers? |
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BHW's Lance Armstrong
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | spiderfrost - 2014-12-08 10:15 PM Thanks everyone. I will talk to my vet about ulcers. He has buddies in the pasture during the day and I used to corral him at night with my 2yr old but I started separating when I bring them off pasture because I don't want her to start cribbing. Don't mind the ignorance but how could a horse so young develop ulcers? This possibility is new to me, never had a cribber or a horse with ulcers. I know it isn't a for sure diagnosis yet but.. And I don't think it's pain, but I could be wrong. Thanks for all the ideas, I have somewhere to go now. Also, if vet finds it is ulcers.. what are the best supplements to help with ulcers?
Some horses are prone to get ulcers. If you want to treat your horse for ulcers PM me. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I would powerpak him twice within the month and f/u with quest. Then get him on some ulcer meds. |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | spiderfrost - 2014-12-09 9:15 PM
Thanks everyone. I will talk to my vet about ulcers. He has buddies in the pasture during the day and I used to corral him at night with my 2yr old but I started separating when I bring them off pasture because I don't want her to start cribbing.
Don't mind the ignorance but how could a horse so young develop ulcers? This possibility is new to me, never had a cribber or a horse with ulcers. I know it isn't a for sure diagnosis yet but..
And I don't think it's pain, but I could be wrong. Thanks for all the ideas, I have somewhere to go now.
Also, if vet finds it is ulcers.. what are the best supplements to help with ulcers?
a 2 day old foal can develop ulcers.....like doug said some horses are just prone to them, your probably gonna have to keep a close eye on him and re treat him every so often...
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Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | I just saw a research article that said if you measure plasma cortisone horses with cribbing devices like collars that stop cribbing actually have stress hormone levels as high or higher than a horse that has so-called stopped cribbing with whatever collar is used.
TIOn other words he cribbing is giving the horse some stress relief rather than causing the stress perhaps.
most cribbers have ulcers so is it cause or effect? The act of heaving up the body to crib shoves acid up into the unprotected oart of the stomach.
You also will see a horse crib at feeding time as he anticipates food and the adrenaline/excitement hormones do stimulate acid secretion so it hurts a bit then they crib.
I would look at amything that stresses the horse, If it is a bit excitable do not use a grain ration, go fat and fiber . Maybe he will have less acid production in the gastrointestinal tract and be more comfortable.
Maybe use a slow feeder for the hay to keep him busy and look at the hay analysis, Pasture may be best overall to reduce cribbing and this has worked for some horses I work with who crib along with a well balanced diet.
Some hays can be over 25% sugars and starch and they fermenet fast and even ferment in the stomach and that creates extra acid production. Some grass hays are very high in the dreaded compound sugar fructan that ferments in the hind but and causes real problems there.
A gastric ulcer also often has right dorsal colitis along with it so the horse needs help in assessing ulcers I think. He will crib to get the endophins .
I also see horses starting to eat wood if they get too little effective fiber that stimulates good chewing. Proper chewing causes the release of lots of saliva and that has sodium bicarbonate in it which helps buffer the acid in the tummy. The water also helps dilute acid as well. Chewing is huge for horses.
If you had a very soft hay or rich pasture he may have started eating wood to buffer the rich food and just like a person eating too many donuts , the fiber from a bran muffin or wood feels good. Look at the diet very carefully with a professional nutrituion consultant.
Recent research U of Minn . says the Slow feeders with a small opening like the one fron Chinch Chix llc North Branch MN may help keep a horse busy nearly 14 hours a day to eat his hay just like nature and wild horses. Maybe contact them and see what they think.
I had a TB gelding who did this and could not stop it many years ago but the experts say we should look at a variety of things now. He was origianlly trying to relieve stress perhaps, and we need to figure that out if we can. I now work a lot on diet and use pasture as much as possible but not if opasture is soft and rich. Hold off on that. Look at fiber in the diet and use alfalfa and even a pre and probiotic to help stomach function.
Do a vet work up first though. Maybe ulcers are an issue or some other problem.
I would look at him being outside 24/7 and see if he needs a companion to reduce his stress.
It may be wise to have a vet exam and make sure there is no underlying issue stressing this horse.
Use a small amount of alfalfa each day to buffer his stomach (research proven) and about two teaspoons a day of magnesium oxide which may help calm a nervous horse and the mag ox will tie up acid directly and neutralize it. We time the use of a few lbs alfalfa for just about an hour or so before work so there is a mat of fiber where the acid tends to splash up when a horse works or collects. It does not seem to blow their brains out and they feel better.
THese behaviors are really tough to work on. I had a friend do the operation cutting the muscle that they use but that sounds pretty scary to me. That is a vets call.
Maybe a perrelli person could spot a behavior issue that could benefit from an altered routine .
Just my take on it . Good luck, this is a tough one.
FYI
Coastal Rider
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Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | I just saw a research article that said if you measure plasma cortisone horses with cribbing devices like collars that stop cribbing actually have stress hormone levels as high or higher than a horse that has so-called stopped cribbing with whatever collar is used.
TIOn other words he cribbing is giving the horse some stress relief rather than causing the stress perhaps.
most cribbers have ulcers so is it cause or effect? The act of heaving up the body to crib shoves acid up into the unprotected oart of the stomach.
You also will see a horse crib at feeding time as he anticipates food and the adrenaline/excitement hormones do stimulate acid secretion so it hurts a bit then they crib.
I would look at amything that stresses the horse, If it is a bit excitable do not use a grain ration, go fat and fiber . Maybe he will have less acid production in the gastrointestinal tract and be more comfortable.
Maybe use a slow feeder for the hay to keep him busy and look at the hay analysis, Pasture may be best overall to reduce cribbing and this has worked for some horses I work with who crib along with a well balanced diet.
Some hays can be over 25% sugars and starch and they fermenet fast and even ferment in the stomach and that creates extra acid production. Some grass hays are very high in the dreaded compound sugar fructan that ferments in the hind but and causes real problems there.
A gastric ulcer also often has right dorsal colitis along with it so the horse needs help in assessing ulcers I think. He will crib to get the endophins .
I also see horses starting to eat wood if they get too little effective fiber that stimulates good chewing. Proper chewing causes the release of lots of saliva and that has sodium bicarbonate in it which helps buffer the acid in the tummy. The water also helps dilute acid as well. Chewing is huge for horses.
If you had a very soft hay or rich pasture he may have started eating wood to buffer the rich food and just like a person eating too many donuts , the fiber from a bran muffin or wood feels good. Look at the diet very carefully with a professional nutrituion consultant.
Recent research U of Minn . says the Slow feeders with a small opening like the one fron Chinch Chix llc North Branch MN may help keep a horse busy nearly 14 hours a day to eat his hay just like nature and wild horses. Maybe contact them and see what they think.
I had a TB gelding who did this and could not stop it many years ago but the experts say we should look at a variety of things now. He was origianlly trying to relieve stress perhaps, and we need to figure that out if we can. I now work a lot on diet and use pasture as much as possible but not if opasture is soft and rich. Hold off on that. Look at fiber in the diet and use alfalfa and even a pre and probiotic to help stomach function.
Do a vet work up first though. Maybe ulcers are an issue or some other problem.
I would look at him being outside 24/7 and see if he needs a companion to reduce his stress.
It may be wise to have a vet exam and make sure there is no underlying issue stressing this horse.
Use a small amount of alfalfa each day to buffer his stomach (research proven) and about two teaspoons a day of magnesium oxide which may help calm a nervous horse and the mag ox will tie up acid directly and neutralize it. We time the use of a few lbs alfalfa for just about an hour or so before work so there is a mat of fiber where the acid tends to splash up when a horse works or collects. It does not seem to blow their brains out and they feel better.
THese behaviors are really tough to work on. I had a friend do the operation cutting the muscle that they use but that sounds pretty scary to me. That is a vets call.
Maybe a perrelli person could spot a behavior issue that could benefit from an altered routine .
Just my take on it . Good luck, this is a tough one.
FYI
Coastal Rider
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 Sparky
Posts: 13038
Location: I call the back seat on the short bus!! | Treat him like he's GF...Gluten Free. Dont' feed grains. Safe Choice type feeds.
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Veteran
Posts: 203
| Thank you for all the ideas and advice. We have a vet appointment next week. All his blood work has always been normal before but I never thought to check for ulcers.
So far he has had a pretty stress free life. He has gotten so bad with the cribbing that even when turned out daily on 30 acres of pasture with the other horses he won't go out much, he comes to back of barn and starts to crib. He gets the opportunity for plenty of exercise and has been here since he was born.
Always been wormed regularly as well. Again thanks. He has colic ed twice already and I have debated putting him down because of all this. Now I hoping it is ulcers.. |
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