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Location: The best kept secret in TX | Saw an ad for a nice Filly on a different site. Owner said they were selling as grade because the studs papers had been canceled through AQHA and the filly was no longer able to be registered. The stud had a registered name but no sire, dam, gransire or grandam was listed. It just had question marks on the pedigree for the Sire's side...
Fishy? Or can papers really be canceled? Why would they cancel papers?  
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2015-01-15 3:54 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | How do you register a horse without providing a dam and a sire? |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | That's the thing that's weird. You can't. He claims the stud was registed at some point but said the papers were canceled. Does AQHA even cancel papers? If so why? |
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 Special Somebody
Posts: 3951
Location: Finally horseback again.... | They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Canchasr1 - 2015-01-15 4:24 PM They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken.
Oh wow. Thank you for the insight. I had no idea.
I hate to say this but I messaged the owner just because I thought it was so weird to cancel papers and asked about her sire. I can't afford another horsie mouth to feed right now, but she was cute and the post was weird. Had to investigate.
Good for AQHA tho for keeping people in line  |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | IRunOnFaith - 2015-01-15 4:31 PM
Canchasr1 - 2015-01-15 4:24 PM They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken. Â
Oh wow. Thank you for the insight. I had no idea.Â
I hate to say this but I messaged the owner just because I thought it was so weird to cancel papers and asked about her sire. I can't afford another horsie mouth to feed right now, but she was cute and the post was weird. Had to investigate. Â
Good for AQHA tho for keeping people in lineÂ
I'd like to see them revoke the papers on the race horses that fail drug tests.. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | komet. - 2015-01-15 4:41 PM IRunOnFaith - 2015-01-15 4:31 PM Canchasr1 - 2015-01-15 4:24 PM They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken. Oh wow. Thank you for the insight. I had no idea.
I hate to say this but I messaged the owner just because I thought it was so weird to cancel papers and asked about her sire. I can't afford another horsie mouth to feed right now, but she was cute and the post was weird. Had to investigate.
Good for AQHA tho for keeping people in line I'd like to see them revoke the papers on the race horses that fail drug tests..
Well they are not going to revoke them, but the trainer, horse and owner are all getting suspended. Horse is getting 150 days suspension. Owners will be fined and suspended right along with the trainer! |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | total performance - 2015-01-15 6:09 PM
komet. - 2015-01-15 4:41 PM IRunOnFaith - 2015-01-15 4:31 PM Canchasr1 - 2015-01-15 4:24 PM They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken.  Oh wow. Thank you for the insight. I had no idea.Â
I hate to say this but I messaged the owner just because I thought it was so weird to cancel papers and asked about her sire. I can't afford another horsie mouth to feed right now, but she was cute and the post was weird. Had to investigate. Â
Good for AQHA tho for keeping people in line I'd like to see them revoke the papers on the race horses that fail drug tests..
Heck with the tracks and their piddly fines and suspensions... If they don't have papers they can't race on a QH track or get anything as a stud or broodmare.. AQHA can go right over their heads to clean up the tracks.
Edited by komet. 2015-01-15 7:18 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12837
| komet. - 2015-01-15 4:41 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2015-01-15 4:31 PM
Canchasr1 - 2015-01-15 4:24 PM They can cancel or revoke papers.
I had an issue where I bought a horse and the person that had him two owners before have consigned him to a sale, they sold him prior to the sale and didnt pay the consignment fee so the sale company sent his papers back to AQHA, they cancelled them until someone wanted to fork over the 1000 dollar consignment fee and commission fees to the sale company.
I thnk they can revoke papers of owners who have violated rules of the AQHA if Im not mistaken. Â
Oh wow. Thank you for the insight. I had no idea.Â
I hate to say this but I messaged the owner just because I thought it was so weird to cancel papers and asked about her sire. I can't afford another horsie mouth to feed right now, but she was cute and the post was weird. Had to investigate. Â
Good for AQHA tho for keeping people in lineÂ
I'd like to see them revoke the papers on the race horses that fail drug tests..
They suspend trainers for that and many trainers are not the owners. Kind of bad to cancel some horse's papers because the owner chose a stupid person for a trainer. I understand your confusion though.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 514
Location: NM | I bought a mare from a lady in Texas that was registered. She came with her papers and was on allbreed. I bred this mare and when I went to register the baby I had to send in this mares hair for DNA verification. When AQHA did the DNA they said there was no possibly way that the dam listed on the registration papers could be her mother! I have no idea how this could happen and I even contacted the original breeders of said mare. Apparently they sent in many other possible "mothers". In the end there was no match and the AQHA canceled this mares papers. So, not only is the mare now grade the little filly she had is not eligible for registration. I was so furious with the original owners and AQHA!! AQHA said they would not punish the original owners in anyway! I still cannot believe they did nothing!! I will never buy another papered horse unless the DNA has been verified by AQHA! So, yes AQHA can cancel papers. Buyer beware!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | I believe all breed registries can cancel papers if they want.
Just recently there was a big dust up in the Arabian world when it was discovered that two National Champion 1/2 Arabs were actually formerly registered Quarter Horses. They were competing (and winning nationally) in the WP and other events where folks became suspicious and blood was drawn. Turned out that these two supposed half arabs were actually well bred AQHA horses with competition records that had falsified AHA Registration (listed parents were not their actual sire and Dam). What's more...they were 7-9 years old but they lied about the age as well and these two ringers were competing against junior horses! When all the dust finally settled...AHA yanked their registrations and DQ'd/erased their show records. Now...all prizes and money has to be redistributed to the real winners. Kinda a big mess.
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12837
| TrailGirl - 2015-01-16 8:02 AM
I believe all breed registries can cancel papers if they want.
Just recently there was a big dust up in the Arabian world when it was discovered that two National Champion 1/2 Arabs were actually formerly registered Quarter Horses. They were competing (and winning nationally) in the WP and other events where folks became suspicious and blood was drawn. Turned out that these two supposed half arabs were actually well bred AQHA horses with competition records that had falsified AHA Registration (listed parents were not their actual sire and Dam). What's more...they were 7-9 years old but they lied about the age as well and these two ringers were competing against junior horses! When all the dust finally settled...AHA yanked their registrations and DQ'd/erased their show records. Now...all prizes and money has to be redistributed to the real winners. Kinda a big mess.
Arabians do not have to be DNA tested? Hmmm Kinda behind the 8 ball. |
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Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Dreem_Chazer - 2015-01-16 7:52 AM
I bought a mare from a lady in Texas that was registered. She came with her papers and was on allbreed. I bred this mare and when I went to register the baby I had to send in this mares hair for DNA verification. When AQHA did the DNA they said there was no possibly way that the dam listed on the registration papers could be her mother! I have no idea how this could happen and I even contacted the original breeders of said mare. Apparently they sent in many other possible "mothers". In the end there was no match and the AQHA canceled this mares papers. So, not only is the mare now grade the little filly she had is not eligible for registration. I was so furious with the original owners and AQHA!! AQHA said they would not punish the original owners in anyway! I still cannot believe they did nothing!! I will never buy another papered horse unless the DNA has been verified by AQHA! So, yes AQHA can cancel papers. Buyer beware!!
I think currently DNA is only required for AI and embryo transfer type breedings. I think live cover that is supposed to be witnessed by a vet doesn't have to be DNA tested. In a lot of ranch type situations where they have a herd of mares with one stallion. When the mare comes in for preg check or just after the baby is born a local vet will certify all the breedings, understanding that this is the typical method and not actually witness the breeding. But if the ranch mistook the baby or another got mixed or sold the mare somehow I could see this happening since DNA is not required in those situations. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? |
Full Arabs are DNA verified. Half arabs have not been required to DNA verify in the past. That is about to change. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Dreem_Chazer - 2015-01-16 7:52 AM
I bought a mare from a lady in Texas that was registered. She came with her papers and was on allbreed. I bred this mare and when I went to register the baby I had to send in this mares hair for DNA verification. When AQHA did the DNA they said there was no possibly way that the dam listed on the registration papers could be her mother! I have no idea how this could happen and I even contacted the original breeders of said mare. Apparently they sent in many other possible "mothers". In the end there was no match and the AQHA canceled this mares papers. So, not only is the mare now grade the little filly she had is not eligible for registration. I was so furious with the original owners and AQHA!! AQHA said they would not punish the original owners in anyway! I still cannot believe they did nothing!! I will never buy another papered horse unless the DNA has been verified by AQHA! So, yes AQHA can cancel papers. Buyer beware!!
Horse traders do this all the time, they match horses to papers.
So if you are going to buy registered, then put in the contract pending aqha parentage verification, pull the mane yourself send it away.
I did this with one horse, the person had two 1/2 siblings that looked identical, I thought the horses or papers got mixed up so I paid for the parentage verification for my own piece of mind |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 514
Location: NM | I learned my lesson the hard way! |
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