|
|
 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
   
Location: MD | I was kind of under the impression that one rein stops were for emergency purposes.
I personally like my horses to circle to slow down and stop or be able to plant their butt in the ground when I ask. I kind of have that requirement that my horses have to have brakes and good ones. That would scare me if I don't have a back-up plan if my first two methods of stopping aren't happening.... | |
| | |
 I Sell Dreams
Posts: 1654
Location: Freestone TX | I have no use for it. As someone stated earlier, my horses are so broke on the ground, when you get on them, you THINK stop in the saddle from day 1 and they do it without the reins. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | If you think a horse properly disengaging their hind quarters has no forward movement with their front quarters, you are either teaching it wrong or have a misconception. | |
| | |
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't teach or use a one-rein stop. I don't know if my colt-starter does or not, but he puts a nice correct soft stop on them in their first 30 days and it stays with them.
I did use a version of it on a runaway once, but I engaged his hind end instead of kicking it out from under him. I got kicked, broke my tib/fib in two, screamed, scared horse, he ran off, my broken leg was flopping, we were almost to the road and I was about to pass out. I made myself stop screaming long enough to take my left rein fairly hard and kick his butt into my hand with my good right leg. He stopped like a calf horse. I had trained that horse to spur stop because he was always weird about his head. I didn't realize it would be a life-saving emergency brake one day. LOL | |
| | |
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | NoNoBadGirl - 2015-01-28 12:50 PM I have no use for it. As someone stated earlier, my horses are so broke on the ground, when you get on them, you THINK stop in the saddle from day 1 and they do it without the reins.
This is exactly how my dad use to train one and that was back in the dark ages..He would do all the ground work and when we got on them they had all the buttons and we would put the miles on them to get them ready for the show ring. | |
| | |
 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
  | |
| | |
 Member
Posts: 21
| WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2015-01-28 2:59 PM
winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
| |
| | |
 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I think it works good for horses that want to be bracy/have a hard mouth and pull on you. I've only started one horse from scratch so I can't speak from experience on that point...she was kind of born broke and learned to stop like a "broke" horse I guess you could say. She already knew the word woah meant stop so I would just sit, say woah, apply rein pressure and back her up a few steps after she stopped.
The horse I used a one-rein stop on the most was one that was extremely chargey but also very hard mouthed. He tried to run through my hands constantly. I probably one-reined stopped that sucker 100+ times per ride for the first month or two until he finally figured out that pulling against me wasn't getting him anywhere. Planting him in the ground and backing him off my hands didn't work because it was a pulling match to get him to stop.
I will say, I never once thought it felt like he was going to fall over? He did it pretty fast too (because he was usually already trying to go fast, and the horse just did everything fast anyway) and he never felt even remotely off-balanced.
I don't think anyone should be adamant against using one because I think that's where as horsemen you can hit a barrier...unless something is abusive, I never "refuse" to try any training technique. But I think there is a time and place for a one-rein stop. I know a girl that would one-rein stop her horse like 20 times per arena lap because she "thought" the horse was going to act up, when really the rider herself was just terrified of being on a horse.
And I don't think anyone out there thinks you should teach a one-rein stop in PLACE of a normal stop...of the trainers I know that are advocates of a one-rein stop I've never heard them say to only teach a one-rein stop and never stop them like normal. But when I see riders on hot, nervous horses repeatedly slamming them into the ground and back-peddaling them 20 steps, that doesn't seem very productive either. | |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM
So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way.
Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education.
Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back.
Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop.
A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop.
Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response.
As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step.
To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force.
To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step.
As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory)
Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling.
In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
Also, navicular is 100% preventable, and I think that is reason enough for a barrel racer to disengage their horses. | |
| | |
 pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
I think I am comparing apples to oranges.
Edited by willrodeo4food 2015-01-30 8:01 PM
| |
| | |
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| willrodeo4food - 2015-01-30 7:56 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-01-29 10:48 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
I am a Ray Hunt fan as well, and the person who starts my colts rides the same way. Ray does teach the one rein stop, he also teaches disengaging the hind end. These two movements are needed to further their education. Ray did more on their back then on the ground, the clinics I went to he never really spent time teaching them to ground drive, he did most from their back. Horses have a high flight response, so if they start to panic, they stick their head up nose out and run, sometimes a horse will run blind. If this occurs, everyone who has ever had this experience can attest to saying pulling directly back on their reins causes the horse to brace against it and most won't stop. A one rein stop, you pull on one rein like you are turning to achieve the control, you start circling the horse till the horse calms down starts circling until you regain control or they stop. Also during the initial stages of training, the first thing you teach a horse is to turn, not to stop, as you will have more success teaching them to respond to pressure on one side versus pressure from both, as direct pressure from both can cause a horse to initiate the flight response. As for the person who says cutters don't disengage the hind end, you may be missing the first step. To set a horse up for a successful turn on the hind end during the initial stages is to move their hind end "out of gear" so they are no longer driving with the hind end and the pivot foot is set in the ground. Then the rider uses leg and reins to bring around the front end to complete the pivot or the spin. Once completed the hind end will engage and be the driving force. To disengage the hind end most will move the leg back towards the cinch apply pressure to move the hind end over generally one step. As the horse gets more broke, they will automatically complete this step without cues, (muscle memory ) Disengaging the hind end is also used on a lot of ranches with opening gates, I know I have a few gates where I have to turn on the forearm to open and shut gates without struggling. In barrel racing we use the cues for disengaging the hind end as well. One example is when you are initially starting with a colt, and the foundation is there, you either stop or collect at the rate point, if your horse is not in perfect position, most will disengage the hind end and move it to the ideal place to create the muscle memory and to reinforce position and placement of the horse.
I think I am comparing apples to oranges.
The people you see do the one rein stop may be over exaggerating it.
And yes I have had a colt completely freak out and to regain control I pulled one rein to make him turn in a circle, we kept turning till he settled down. He did the as you say Whirley bird, some of the time, he started pivoting on his front end, and the cue I had when he settled down was he stopped and gave in to the pressure, so yes his head was close to my knee. My hand this entire time was secured to my knee, I don't pull any more, nor do I pull any less.
How I was taught and how my horses are started is the horse gives to the pressure of the rein, but do not more their feet to rein pressure.
To get a horse to move in any direction it comes from the seat and legs. The reins are there for the most part emergency use. Hence when my colt got excited I used one rein to turn him in a circle till he stopped. My legs were not moving, and my but was deep in the saddle cueing him to stop.
Once my horses are broke, I'm talking 30 days, I don't use the one rein stop, the horses have enough education to stop properly, even when they freak out.
Edited to add, I have one mare I got her back from the trainer after the first 30 rides, if I pressured her up too much, and she couldn't handle it, she would actually turn in circles till she stopped with her nose touching my foot on a loose rein. This was her comfort zone, this is how she regrouped. In all the horses I have ever had, she is the only one who would automatically do it. She no longer does this, but thought I would share
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-01-30 9:28 PM
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | freddymac - 2015-01-29 12:56 PM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2015-01-28 2:59 PM winwillows - 2015-01-28 11:30 AM willrodeo4food - 2015-01-27 9:46 PM So I guess you guys have explained why I'm not a fan. I'm old, my background in riding has not taught me a good reason as to why I would want to disengage the hip and loose control of my horses feet & last but not least the only colt starting guru whose practices I have ever really used is Ray Hunt (and I know I missed a boatload of the stuff that man tried to teach).
For those of you that are fans, glad it works for you but none of you have convinced me as to what's so great about it. I do understand the need to use it on occassion but don't believe it's the best way to teach either a stop or lateral flexion. Thank you all for taking the time to try to explain your take on the manuever.
As a person who has started a lot of colts with Ray, (some of the ones that I rode were his ), I can tell you that one of the first things we did, once we got them moving out, was be sure that they could be stopped by disengaging the drive. This in no way took the front end away. If fact, it shifted all power to the front, and redirected the energy into an area where it can be more safely controlled. Done properly, I have never seen a horse even come close to falling over doing this. Once again, this is a specific practice to avoid a potentially dangerous situation for both the horse and the rider when a very green horse does not yet understand a more advanced rein. I do not use this once I have moved the horse on, but this is a safety release valve that every green rider and kid should know when things go south.
| |
| | |
 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | I always start colts on the ground ground driving. They know what whoa means when I get on. I tried to one rein stop my older mare one day and she was confused as hell. It MIGHT work on a run away situation, but I do remember my dad always telling me growing up if you get in a bind pull on one rein. I agree with whoever said it is a good way to flip one on their side until they have been really trained in it.
I had someone ask me to work their horse on the pattern one time. They one rein stopped the crap out of this poor horse and even just standing there was always flexing them. I went into the barrel and lifted my rein to turn and the dang horse started spinning on the forehand. After awhile he finally learned to follow his nose, but the one rein stop stuff is not for me. If others want to do it, more power to you, I won't judge you for it.
When we had the 4H club I did see a ton of gamers in other clubs one rein stop to finish a run because of the ridiculous stopping distance. It just seemed hard on their front end to me. | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line