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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| jetgetset - 2015-02-07 7:19 PM
I should have included I board him at the place that has the barrel races so we ride there everyday. They have 3 sometimes 4 a week so it allows for lots of walk around time and even when I'm not there hes still in a pen where he sees and hears everything.. That's why I am kind of stuck with the whole holding pen thing.. Hes been in and out of there a zillion times and only had that melt down that time, heck he had been in and out of there 3 times that night before the meltdown with no issue at all. I don't have my truck and trailer here so I can't haul anywhere else.
I did ride him around today and he did GREAT.. I kept it short but changed it up a little and took him to the warm up pen rode around for a little bit then took him to the arena, walked up the alley during the drag got off and called it day. No hesitation whatsoever and he was as good as gold, and seemed much more relaxed. So hopefully some of this is sinking in. I however did keep it much shorter and did stay away from the holding pen since it was packed, but he did not try to drag me in there when we walked by which is a big improvement from last night..
Being locked up in a pen without tack or a rider on is completely different then you riding around.
Also horses don't think logical like humans, you must remember this, they cannot rationalize.
This horse is a big candidate for ulcers,
Ulcers cause pain, so if you are not treating them, still riding him, when he gets nervous, more acid is secreted, more damage to the stomach, gi tract, more pain.
As others have said, it sounds like you are pushing this horse too fast.
You are wanting to exhibition already when the horse hasn't had the time to be legged up properly, this can cause increase change of injury and pain.
Also some horses will vet check fine until they are legged up, once he is fit, I would suggest having him vet checked again, including X-rays
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I am a Freak
Posts: 3326
 
Location: Nowhere Special | cheryl makofka - 2015-02-08 10:18 AM jetgetset - 2015-02-07 7:19 PM I should have included I board him at the place that has the barrel races so we ride there everyday. They have 3 sometimes 4 a week so it allows for lots of walk around time and even when I'm not there hes still in a pen where he sees and hears everything.. That's why I am kind of stuck with the whole holding pen thing.. Hes been in and out of there a zillion times and only had that melt down that time, heck he had been in and out of there 3 times that night before the meltdown with no issue at all. I don't have my truck and trailer here so I can't haul anywhere else. I did ride him around today and he did GREAT.. I kept it short but changed it up a little and took him to the warm up pen rode around for a little bit then took him to the arena, walked up the alley during the drag got off and called it day. No hesitation whatsoever and he was as good as gold, and seemed much more relaxed. So hopefully some of this is sinking in. I however did keep it much shorter and did stay away from the holding pen since it was packed, but he did not try to drag me in there when we walked by which is a big improvement from last night.. Being locked up in a pen without tack or a rider on is completely different then you riding around. Also horses don't think logical like humans, you must remember this, they cannot rationalize. This horse is a big candidate for ulcers, Ulcers cause pain, so if you are not treating them, still riding him, when he gets nervous, more acid is secreted, more damage to the stomach, gi tract, more pain. As others have said, it sounds like you are pushing this horse too fast. You are wanting to exhibition already when the horse hasn't had the time to be legged up properly, this can cause increase change of injury and pain. Also some horses will vet check fine until they are legged up, once he is fit, I would suggest having him vet checked again, including X-rays
I appreciate your insight.. I was refrencing him being boarded there because he is use to the area, and the arena. It is home to him. Horses may not rationalize but they do associate and that is what I am trying to do. Associate the idea of being well fed, feeling better and the arena where he is not getting worked but allowed to relax. The association of walking up the alley with stopping, relaxing getting a treat "good place to be" rather then run, run, run, pain, panic and work. As far as the exbo.. at no point was he going to run, trot or even walk a pattern, it was just the next progression in, teaching him that not every time you go into the arena you are going to be expected to work, run, or get your face ripped off. So walking to the first barrel is not going to hurt him physically in any sense. And to be honest I don't know that is even going to be a problem or not, I percive it to be a problem but I also thought I may never get him in the arena with a barrel race going on, and now he is walking calm and relaxed up the alley and standing with no problems. (my perception of his alley issue was much worse then it actually turned out to be) His problems may be HUGE or they may be very minor, I really have no idea what I am dealing with because I don't have any kind of history on this this horse. I'm expecting him to be a complete mess because why else would someone starve and send such a nice horse for kill? I kept yesterdays session very short not to allow stress to build up and it worked. I'm sure he does have ulcers and am working with the vet for the best course of action for him and exploring my options for what will best suite the situation. I just wanted to make sure I was being clear because going back and rereading it makes it sound like I know this horse is a blown up mess. I don't know that for sure, I just think he may be.. But till I know just how blown up he is or is not I'm not sure what to do. I'm trying to take things slow but still figure out what I have, while I have the opportunity to do so at a facility he is already somewhat comfortable at. In the spring he will go back north with me and likely not see a barrel race for several months. Does any of this make any sense sometimes I just ramble and not make the point or question I'm trying to state.. LOL | |
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 Veteran
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| some people might flame me for this but I have heard of using reserpine or fluphenzaine through the first few times putting a blown up horse in that situation... Not to "drug" them and rush returning to the pattern, but to help allow him to realize he's safe, it's okay, and just think with a less wound up brain. Or maybe ace or something like jailbreak. Not enough to really alter him but enough to mellow him out where he is more manageable and gets a few good, calm, experiences to get his confidence back. I haven't ever had to do this but it was just an idea. But like everyone else said, just be sure to take your time so he doesn't end up in the same spot 3 months after you start running him | |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Some you can fix, some you cannot and it takes someone willing to know they can't be fixed and finding them another job. Mental problems are harder to fix than physical ones and in order to fix the mental ones, you have to fix ALL the physical ones. When I get one like this, I KNOW I'm going to make lots of vet and chiro visits and plan on spending 2 to 3 thousand on that alone....however, most of the time the horses are cheap, so I have the money to do that. One vet visit will NOT do it. Find a really good equine vet that wants to help get him right and then make sure that everything is A-OK with him. Pull blood, get ultrasounds, X rays, and TEST FOR EPM (it's becoming an epidemic in OK and TX and can cause a myriad of problems....but it can be treated successfully). and make sure you do his teeth, level his feet, and have him adjusted. That will be the first order of business because horses like this have been run and hammered on when they were hurting and only fixing what was originally caused the problem will allow his mind to heal. From there, you have to work with getting his confidence back and making him LIKE the barrel pen again, which it sounds like you're working on that. I've found it takes about 3 years at a minimum to bring one back where you don't have occasional flashbacks. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Some can be fixed but what most people do not always realize is horses are by nature "fight or flight" animals. Once they have been in abusive situations their "flight" response will be very high. In my personal experience (I have rehabbed a few) when they are in a scary or threatening situation their first response is to take care of themselves, not their rider. It does not necessarily mean they are dangerous but their first concern it to get away and to safety and then they realize - Oh what happened to my rider. If that makes sense. | |
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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | It's my specialty! I enjoy it, especially when other people notice the progress. Alot my GOOD horses where blown up projects. Health/lameness issues is the biggest concern | |
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  JMHO
Posts: 1869
Location: Oklahoma | I think ulcers is a great start. I didn't see if you had a vet check done to see if there are any other underlying pain. I also think this horse needs a different job for a few months or more(working cows, ponying other horses ect.). I wouldn't take him to another race unless he dog tired. I mean warn smooth out after a full day of hard riding where he is happy to stand and breath. I would make sure he is warn out before taking him to any races and see if he gets any better. Good luck! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
| I've fixed several just by ranching on them and giving them a different job. Chased cows, drug calves at brandings and ponied colts on them. They started to enjoy life again. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | If this is a huge chestnut gelding about 7-8 yrs please PM me. Noticed you were in TX esp. if your out west. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | My personal opinion would to treat 30 days omeprazole and put him on forco, because if he has stomach ulcers (which I would bet on it) then he will have hindgut problems too. You have to straighten the hind gut out or it won't help your stomach ulcer situation. I would do 30 days once a day with a paste. Too bad you don't have a good friend at the barn that could dose him once a day. You will be amazed the difference in a horse after treating with ulcers. I won't say he will be an angel around the arena, but you never know. I wouldn't even really ride him until you've atleast had him on the omeprazole for a week. Then I would continue to do all the things you've been doing. I had a horse that did a 360 after ulcer treatment. I couldn't believe she was the same horse, and you would not have thought she had ulcers.  | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 216
Location: SC/Ga line | Had amazing results with Judd Gregory, Equine Physical Therapist working on horses! Fixed turning issues, etc. AMAZING!!! Out of Dallas TX, but works all over. Im in SC | |
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I am a Freak
Posts: 3326
Location: Nowhere Special | Thanks again.. I appreciate all the insight. | |
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I am a Freak
Posts: 3326
Location: Nowhere Special | uno-dos-tres! - 2015-02-09 2:41 PM If this is a huge chestnut gelding about 7-8 yrs please PM me. Noticed you were in TX esp. if your out west.
No not him.. But I am tempted to post a pic and see if anyone recognizes him or has a history on him for the last 2 years.. He was in OK and seems like he was probably run A LOT | |
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I am a Freak
Posts: 3326
Location: Nowhere Special | alp341 - 2015-02-09 9:41 AM some people might flame me for this but I have heard of using reserpine or fluphenzaine through the first few times putting a blown up horse in that situation... Not to "drug" them and rush returning to the pattern, but to help allow him to realize he's safe, it's okay, and just think with a less wound up brain. Or maybe ace or something like jailbreak. Not enough to really alter him but enough to mellow him out where he is more manageable and gets a few good, calm, experiences to get his confidence back. I haven't ever had to do this but it was just an idea. But like everyone else said, just be sure to take your time so he doesn't end up in the same spot 3 months after you start running him
I thought about doing just that the first time I took him. Mostly because I wasn't sure what to expect and I am there all alone. So far (besides his meltdown in the holding pen) hes really been a pretty good boy, hes not dancing around, or overy excited, and he will just walk right up to the fence drop his head, cock a leg and stand there relaxed no problem. He seems to be getting better and better each time, ((knock on wood)) but I feel there will be more chapters before I reach the end of the book. | |
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