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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
   
Location: MD | You make all excellent points.. I'm all for a horse that you have to work on as a kid. And I mean buggers that are going to dump you if you're cowboying on him, or will sass you into next week...
But knowingly putting your CHILD on a horse that has no problem flipping over on you or dragging your around... come on. It's different as an adult, IMO, you can make those choices. but When it was already stated that the money wasn't there, where is the money going to come from for the hospital bills when she gets stomped on because he had to be cooped up for an injury? Or where is the quality of life for that horse when there is a potential owner that will give him the structure he needs, so that horse can be successful in life?
I'm guessing this stemmed from that thread, hence the specific points I've made. And I'm not trying to be harsh to her(Or the OP for that matter)... but.. it makes me question the thought process of the people that are supposed to be giving her direction in life and protecting her.
And I was told to tough it out as a kid, I'm thankful I came out alive. My parents weren't horse people and didn't understand the option of selling (they thought of a horse as a dog or a cat.) by the time they learned that, I was already invested and getting going. I spent to much time in a hospital, or crying over my inability to get my horse like everyone elses... There are lessons to be learned from tough horses, but there are lots of horses out there that need a home that won't kill you while you learn those lessons. |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | I dunno, I'm on the fence about this one.
I am thankful my parents always put be on safe horses. Those horses let me learn to be a confident rider and to really enjoy the clinic experiences I had. I always had the ability to work on myself as a rider as well as my horse. I think rank ones don't always allow you the comfort of that.
I know alot of people that have had to ride rank out-to-get-you horses and I have seen that it's so much harder to improve yourself when you spend most of the time 'defensive riding' trying to stay one step ahead of some piece of crap that's trying to kill you.
While they are able to get through these horses... I think not only does it take a toll on their bodies.. I think it also slows down the ability to work on themselves. It's hard to learn when you can never let your guard down. I have seen this develop alot of bad habits - I don't think it allows a rider to properly learn 'feel'. I think when you ride a rank one, and you have to literally pull it's head around all the time - it's hard to learn to be soft, how to develop the timing.. how to feel when a horse is really working properly.
I'm not saying it can't be done... I just think a rank horse makes it a hundred times harder and more dangerous on the rider to progress though and learn the horsemanship aspect.
I have alot of respect for riders that come out of situations like that, but I also know that you don't have to go through that to be a great rider.
I like to learn my lessons from the 'rank' ones from afar ha ha.
A good minded horse is worth their weight in gold for riders starting out. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Fairweather - 2015-03-13 9:55 PM
Maybe this has to do with the region that I grew up in, I'm not sure....
When I was growing up, my parents weren't horse people and they bought me a pony that had my number. I got thrown or drug off on just about a daily basis -- have the permanent scar on my face that required 12 stitches as a reminder! I didn't have the advantage of lessons or a new horse-- I just got out there and rode and eventually figured it out.
Around here, I've heard countless childhood tales of kids being thrown and then being told, "Get back on." They did. It was expected that you did.
One of the best riders I know had some of the worst wrecks I've ever seen and rode some of the worst horses. His parents never went out and got him another horse. He got back out there and figured how to stay on the horse and work with it..... which is EXACTLY why he rides as well as any rider in the country.
I've read a lot of articles about momentual horsemen of all disciplines that got their start getting thrown off some very rank horses and they got back on and they worked until they figured it out. They worked with what they had.
Look at Martha Josey, June Holeman and others that didn't have a glamourous start either.
The common thread is that is that they didn't have lessons, they didn't have best horses - in fact they had dangerous horses - they didn't have the best tack. They just made do with what they had and they kept working at it until they got better. If you look back at the depression and the early years, that's what EVERYONE did. People were tough back then.
It seems like we've lost that..... Your horse acts up? The advice right off the bat is to sell and get another one...instead of working on your horsemanship.
I can't ride in this saddle.... The advice right off the bat is go buy a different saddle... instead of working on developing better balance and a better seat.
I'm not winning the 1D.... Go buy a made horse that's faster.... instead of working harder on the one you have.
Hard times makes for good lessons and in the end, better horseman. It's tough horses & difficult rides that makes us learn and builds toughness. If we're so easy to sell out, what are we really going to learn and what kind of discipline are we going to have? Sometimes it's more about the journey than the end result. Sometimes I think we forget about that.
Has anyone else bit the bullet and just worked with what they had and felt like they were better off for it in other ways as well?
I grew up riding crap. My dad to this day about pukes when he sees what we spend on just a broodmare. He bought the $300 POS that the neighbors were selling. I am not bragging, I can flat out ride one. But I don't want to anymore. My latest dream just got shattered when I sent my 4yr old off for 2 weeks riding and he came back blown up and ruined. Not sure what happened, but after riding what felt like a stick of dynamite about to go off any second, I was never so happy to have feet on the ground. I won't do that to my kids. They aren't getting the best thing out there, but I want them to have safe. A $5000 horse is much cheaper than a $20k vet bill and we all know even with the best horses, an accident can happen. I want that to be minimized as much as I can. |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | BBKitamanCutter - 2015-03-14 1:30 PM I dunno, I'm on the fence about this one.
I am thankful my parents always put be on safe horses. Those horses let me learn to be a confident rider and to really enjoy the clinic experiences I had. I always had the ability to work on myself as a rider as well as my horse. I think rank ones don't always allow you the comfort of that.
I know alot of people that have had to ride rank out-to-get-you horses and I have seen that it's so much harder to improve yourself when you spend most of the time 'defensive riding' trying to stay one step ahead of some piece of crap that's trying to kill you.
While they are able to get through these horses... I think not only does it take a toll on their bodies.. I think it also slows down the ability to work on themselves. It's hard to learn when you can never let your guard down. I have seen this develop alot of bad habits - I don't think it allows a rider to properly learn 'feel'. I think when you ride a rank one, and you have to literally pull it's head around all the time - it's hard to learn to be soft, how to develop the timing.. how to feel when a horse is really working properly.
I'm not saying it can't be done... I just think a rank horse makes it a hundred times harder and more dangerous on the rider to progress though and learn the horsemanship aspect.
I have alot of respect for riders that come out of situations like that, but I also know that you don't have to go through that to be a great rider.
I like to learn my lessons from the 'rank' ones from afar ha ha.
A good minded horse is worth their weight in gold for riders starting out.
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I agree too a degree, but starting out with professional lessons is always beneficial. You learn how to do things correct from the beginning. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Clinton Anderson said it best. The more problem horses you break. IE( get bucked off) the better your ground work becomes. Pure simple common sense. My parents weren't horsey people but all my uncles aunts friends grandparents were. They really were into horse racing and betting. You just cant help but enjoy a horse running full out in front of you. It is just a rush. We had good horse to ride cause we always brought in cattle off the range for branding and that led into months there just wasn't a horse that didn't get rode. It you couldn't ride the sucker he got hitched to wagon to earn his keep, We sucked it up. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I really notice this with saddles. It's like, do you really need a new saddle or can you just not ride that well?! |
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 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | I agree to a POINT with what you are saying. But for children I firmly believe there is a fine line between having them stick with a horse that has "issues" and horses that are rank and dangerous.
My daughter's barrel horse is a great example of a horse that has his issues and will test her riding skills on days. He can be stubborn and test her to the point of wanting to quit some days, however he is not dangerous. Annoying- YES, Frustrating- YES! He will refuse to go forward or go down the trail because he had always been a pampered stall horse and the flies are bothering him... You only warm him up one time and don't ask him to warm up again later in the day.... There use to be NO slow work on the pattern... However, she is learning confidence with him and improving her skills. They work with a young woman that is excellent for her and she helping them both in ways I can not... I am not going to say my daughter has never gotten frustrated or even scared (especially right after she started riding him about 2 years ago) but I don't worry about her getting hurt on him.
However, a horse/pony that is to the point of being a full out bronco, rearing to the point of almost or flipping over or exhibiting any other life threating behavior is not the horse I want my, or any, child on. I had a horse for a short time that was dangerous to go in the field with, neither kid rode her but she did not last long either. I wanted my children to be able to go to the field and barn with me. It is enough worry to teach a child how to be safe in these situations without the additional worry of a horse charging them. There are the rare the occasions that some kids overcome and become better riders but I would lay money on it that many more end up severely hurt or never wanting to get on a horse again.
Just having, working with and riding horses sadly come with it own set of safety concerns, no matter how well broke the horse is. Any ONE who owns horses long enough are going to have there set of scares, bruises, falls and spills to speak of. One of most serious injuries came from a great little horse that took excellent care of me but fell going into the second barrel. However, to keep putting a child on a horse that is dangerous, to me, is just not smart parenting. There are to many good horses out there to be doubling the risk. The medical bills are not going to be any cheaper than buying another horse. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| hammer_time - 2015-03-14 4:36 PM I really notice this with saddles. It's like, do you really need a new saddle or can you just not ride that well?! I can answer that! I have no problem admitting that I can't ride that well, I have only been ridding for 5 years. The type of saddle I use can really make a difference because there is so much room for improvement. I use to ride in a Brittany Pozzi, was always getting thrown forward, tried a Caldwell and stayed seated much better in it. I now have 2 Caldwells while I try to improve my riding by really working on strenghtening my core. Edited to add that this is definitely not the case for everyone. My girls have a great seat and they had no problems riding the Pozzi's but once they tried my Caldwells that is all they want to ride in now.
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-03-14 6:14 PM
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | I think there is a huge difference between "difficult" and "dangerous". I also don't think a kid is the best person to deal with a dangerous horse, whether that is how it used to be or not. Best thing for the kid and the dangerous horse is an experienced adult trying to fix the problem. IMO |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | cow pie - 2015-03-14 4:30 PM Clinton Anderson said it best. The more problem horses you break. IE( get bucked off) the better your ground work becomes. Pure simple common sense. My parents weren't horsey people but all my uncles aunts friends grandparents were. They really were into horse racing and betting. You just cant help but enjoy a horse running full out in front of you. It is just a rush. We had good horse to ride cause we always brought in cattle off the range for branding and that led into months there just wasn't a horse that didn't get rode. It you couldn't ride the sucker he got hitched to wagon to earn his keep, We sucked it up.
I agree, and that's part of my point. |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | pinx05 - 2015-03-14 6:12 PM I think there is a huge difference between "difficult" and "dangerous". I also don't think a kid is the best person to deal with a dangerous horse, whether that is how it used to be or not. Best thing for the kid and the dangerous horse is an experienced adult trying to fix the problem. IMO
^^^^^ THIS....... |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | NJJ - 2015-03-14 9:00 PM pinx05 - 2015-03-14 6:12 PM I think there is a huge difference between "difficult" and "dangerous". I also don't think a kid is the best person to deal with a dangerous horse, whether that is how it used to be or not. Best thing for the kid and the dangerous horse is an experienced adult trying to fix the problem. IMO ^^^^^ THIS.......
my point to.. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Bibliafarm - 2015-03-14 8:24 PM NJJ - 2015-03-14 9:00 PM pinx05 - 2015-03-14 6:12 PM I think there is a huge difference between "difficult" and "dangerous". I also don't think a kid is the best person to deal with a dangerous horse, whether that is how it used to be or not. Best thing for the kid and the dangerous horse is an experienced adult trying to fix the problem. IMO ^^^^^ THIS.......
Sometimes a difficult horse can become not so difficult with some good instruction or guidance. Help the rider and you help the horse, save both a lot of frustration and angst. |
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