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Location: Gainesville, TX | My family breeds heifer bulls. We specifically are breeding for bulls with birthweights below 60 lbs. |
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 Party Gal
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Location: fun meter pegged OK | oija - 2015-03-04 1:54 PM My family breeds heifer bulls. We specifically are breeding for bulls with birthweights below 60 lbs.
It is so much nicer when you don't have to pull. The last time we had to (knock on wood) was when the neighbors Beefmaster Bull jumped the fence and got in with our replacement heifers. He managed to breed one that night and 8mos later a 90# dead calf and a 1st calf heifer that took 4 hours to get her hips back up under her.
Thanks for raising those bulls that when your look out inn the pasture you don't know if it's a calf on the ground or a "cow patty".
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Location: SE Louisiana | yankeeredneck - 2015-03-04 1:26 PM
The only reason to pull a calf should be because you have to not because you don't have the time to wait. Just because a cow goes into labor does not mean she is fully dilated and pulling to soon can cause damage to the cow and stress the calf. There are cattle breeds that are known for throwing those big calves and having to put them in hip lifters because of the nerve damage is not fun. Most of the time you end up having to put them down.
The industry has come along way when dealing with registered stock of affording us with the luxury of selecting calving ease bulls. We run Angus and our heifers are always exposed to what we call 1st calf heifer bulls (BEPD of 1.0 or less) whereas; our mature cows we run bulls of BEPD of 2.5+
Oh trust me I know about hip lifters. Every dairy I ever worked on had a set. I don't know about the beef breeds but among the dairy breeds it's not so much about big heads, tho those do occur. It's the calf's hips that get locked up. This brings me to the second time I woke up one of the day guys.
When I started there we had 3 dairies working about 5500 cows.After being there for 6 or 7 months the owner bought out another dairy that was close by. This became dairy#4 and added about another 1500 animals. They moved all the milking stock to barns 1-3 and went to work converting the double 12 herringbone to a double 22 in-line. When this was done they shuffled all the animals around and dairy #4 became the heifer farm. This was where all the springers and milking heifers went. They hired some crack-jack young man to oversee it and I could see right off the bat we were not going to get along. I was getting word he was not happy with my work. In order to accommodate him I had rearranged my scheduled to clock in and drive over to dairy #4 to start my shift.
It was about my third week of this when I got there only to find in the middle of the calving barn, a dead heifer with a dead calf sticking out of her. Locked at the hips. It was below freezing so I inserted my hand into the cow to see how far I had to reach to feel any heat. I got in about 14 inches before my fingertips felt any. Well, I knew two things right away. This hotshot was sposed to make his last check at 8PM and this cow had been dead longer than two hours.WAY longer. I knew This was one of those times I needed to cover my a$$.
Among the day guys there was: Don... General manager... and Frances, his right hand man. Frances did the building, pen and other maintenance on all the farms and made rounds with Don every morning... and he was one of the people I'd been told I could call upon for help if I needed it. So I went and woke him up and told him he needed to see something over on #4. I took him right to the cow, pointed out the time and asked him to see how far he had to reach into the heifer to feel any heat. Well as soon as he did he knew the same thing I did and he nodded his head at me and I took him home...
I heard the next day when Don and Frances got over to dairy #4 and asked about that dead heifer the hotshot over there started blaming it on me... Well Frances had already told Don about the night before and he put a stop to that nonsense right there... I didn't hear about any more complaints from that fella the rest of the time I was there.
So like I was saying, I don't know about beef breeds, but in dairy breeds the hips are the trouble point. I'd learned long before, the hips are wider than the head, so if I had a problem getting the head out the best thing to do was turn the rest of the calf 90 degrees so the calf's hips didn't clash with the cow's. I don't ever recall having a cow that could not get up after I'd pulled the calf but I saw of lot of cows that didn't get help or didn't get help until they had been at it for several hours that never stood up again. My theory was if I could present two feet and a nose at the exit point, it was ready to come out
Edited by komet. 2015-03-04 6:46 PM
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Location: Texas!! | Wow! I'm really enjoying reading these stories!!  |
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Location: SE Louisiana | BS Hauler - 2015-03-03 10:53 AM
Thanks Komet.
Until you have worked with livestock most will never believe all the trouble that they can get into.
This is SO true!! I remember on this farm in one of the close-up pens on Dairy #1 they had a hay ring and people were smart enough to remove the twine from the big round bales... but the closest place to put it while they did other things was to hang it over the closest fence.... After a while there became a whole nest of it there...
One night I was making my first round and I found a heifer that had been nosing around this nest of twine and got some of it caught around her neck.. It was ugly enough not to describe here but she managed to strangle herself and was dead when I got there..
But......... on to something else..... I mentioned before there are many different ways a cow can say moo....
When I was a kid I took piano lessons... All my teachers told me I had an ear for sounds... I have discovered this is true. I can hear a sour note from across the street. It just grates on my nerves to hear one. But, while I could play my a$$ off with my right hand.. and do the same with my left hand... I lacked the coordination to use them both together. So that never went anywhere except to leave me with a deep love for piano music and music in general... But anyway.... I still had this ear for sounds..... and believe it or not...... well...... Most won't..... I'm not even sure I want to go here...... But... I think I can start with some common ground that everyone here that knows cows can agree with... There is a universal moo that extends across all breeds...
That moo a mama cow uses to address a newborn calf... It's almost a hummm.... Now from this point it's not hard to extrapolate a moo for "I'm hungry".. a moo from "I'm thirsty"... a moo for "I'm bullin'"... a moo for "I'm not a happy cow..."... and so on....
Well... One night I was making my my first round on dairy #3.... and we'd had a problem with the float on the water tank in this pen... It would stick once in a while and overflow..... the downhill path it would take would pool the water at a low spot about 15 feet from the back fence. So.. we had a mud-hole there... In those days it was always there... The ground consisted of volcanic clay, and water just didn't sink in.
Now I forgot to mention something... Body Language....
I learned about body language from cows long before I found out about the extensive body language horses have. I knew every time I was among cows they would have an eye on me... along with a corresponding ear.... So here I am checking around the hospital pen on dairy #3. I carried a 5D-cell flashlight to be able to see everything, and I'm walking along the lower end of this pen and I see a cow... looking a that old mud puddle.... and as I walk by her I check her back end..... (bloody)... Normal for this pen.... and I keep going.....about 15 steps.... when.... I realize.... she didn't flick an ear toward me...
So. I stopped and looked at her again... There she was, staring daggers at this mud puddle... ears perked at it... ignoring me and everything else around her... So, because I was curious at something this odd I walk over to her....Nothing.... she never twitched an ear at me.... I play the light over the mud puddle and see nothing but mud.... I walked around to the other side and look from that angle... nothing but mud.... I looked up at her and asked.. (OK I talk to animals when we are alone)... "WTH are you looking at?"... and she "hummmmed"... Well... I knew what that meant.... I dropped to my knees and set the flashlight aside and reached into the mud and found a calf that had been born next to this puddle... and while trying to gain it's feet had staggered into it and not could not stand up in that slick clay. I pulled it out and the poor thing was just one big mud clot... I knew the mom would go to work cleaning it off just as soon as I moved away but I could not leave her with this mess so I dragged it up to the water tank and splashed water over it, rubbed it down.. repeat, repeat, repeat until I decided I had enough of the mud off it to pull it aside and leave it to the ministrations of it's mom..
From this point, because of other things I'd had to do just to get here it was time for my first break of the night. So I take the truck back to the office building and walk past dry pens 1-5, climb the fence to DP 6 on my way across to the other side and my home just over the fence.. I'd put a foot on the first rail on the other fence when I heard..... another moo you cow people will know.... the moo of a cow in labor.... Well.. more of a grunt than a moo.. but anyway.... I knew what it was and decided as long as I was there I may as well have a look... So I walked down to where I thought the sound had come from and there was a cow that had expelled a calf.. still in an unbroken sack... S***!!! I dropped to my knees and ripped the sack open and.... it wasn't breathing.. well duhh!!! I honestly don't remember if I'd heard about this or read about it somewhere... But in the back of my mind I knew this was someone else's idea.. I reached over and grabbed a piece of straw, bent it in half and stuck it up the calf's nose and twirled it... There was a sudden explosive PFUTT!!! and a pool of liquid appeared on the ground under it's nose and it started to cough and breathe..
Hey... Score another one for me...
Edited by komet. 2015-03-06 11:42 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | You should write a book! |
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Expert
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Location: SE Louisiana | Chandler's Mom - 2015-03-07 1:05 AM
You should write a book!
My dad keeps telling me the same thing... Pftt... I didn't pay enough attention in English class to accomplish something like that. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Ghost writer!!! |
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 Namesless in BHW
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Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | I am loving these stories Komet! Kudos to you  |
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Location: SE Louisiana | Chandler's Mom - 2015-03-07 1:40 AM
Ghost writer!!!
The only person I know that I would trust with that is Ridenfly... and I don't think she likes me very much..
I used to wonder about the intelligence level of cows. And I can tell you when I started thinking about that.
It was on the very first cow dairy I worked on.
Now... The signs were there... I just didn't see them... Before I started gathering the cows to milk in the morning, I had to walk through the dry cow pen... Usually the fresh cows would have the newborn calves at their side. But sometimes..... They would hide them..... in a ten acre lot... now, at first I used to spend hours looking for a calf I knew had been born.. Finally I wised up and just pulled the fresh cow out of the pen and waited for the calf to get hungry and come looking for it's mom..
I started working there in April... Come January we hit a super cold snap.. I remember when it started. I was watching the Super Bowl with my boss and at half time I happened to glance out the window and saw snow flurries coming down...Well.. they had been forecast... What was NOT forecast... was 3 days of constant flurries that stopped when we had 15 inches of snow on the ground....
that was followed by sub-zero temps. Well, we only had about 10 or 12 cows in the dry cow pen at this time so my boss kicked them into the milking herd, trusting me to be able to spot them and not milk them by accident.
Now remember... I used to have to HUNT for newborn calves...
One morning during this cold spell I could not get my van to start up so I could drive to work... I always started my day early, so after screwing with it for about 30 minutes I decided to walk the mile and a half to work. Now... I always got to work at 7am to start milking at 8am.... This day I got there at 7:30... I set up the barn and walked out back..... to find two cows had laid down and had calves right in front of the gate to the holding pen... at the same time... about a half an hour ago... now.. it's about 20 below zero... and both calves were in hyporthermic convulsions. Well.. one at a time I dragged them into the tank room and the upshot was one lived and one didn't. But that got me started thinking... And I thought about it for years...
Now on my job on that big dairy.... we had a super cold spell.. and I was running my butt off trying to keep up with the calves being born.... It was too cold to just leave them outside.... So I would grab them up and dump them into the floorboard of the farm truck I was using and haul them over the the pump-room on dairy#1.. Now.. the vacuum pumps in barn #1 were modified jet engines... They ran on electricity but they kicked out a lot of heat... so the room, even in this weather was about 60 degrees. I was making a circle on diary #1 and I spotted a heifer in D4 (dry pen #4) that had a calf on the ground, and the calf was in hyporthermic convulsions.... I got out of the truck and stepped through the feed bunk.... and stood up to see something that stopped me in my tracks... This first calf heifer laid down behind her calf and draped her neck over the baby trying to keep it warm.... Well... at this point I stopped wondering about the intelligence level of cows. I had my answer.... |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | komet. - 2015-03-08 10:37 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2015-03-07 1:40 AM
Ghost writer!!!
The only person I know that I would trust with that is Ridenfly... and I don't think she likes me very much..
I used to wonder about the intelligence level of cows. And I can tell you when I started thinking about that.
It was on the very first cow dairy I worked on.
Now... The signs were there... I just didn't see them... Before I started gathering the cows to milk in the morning, I had to walk through the dry cow pen... Usually the fresh cows would have the newborn calves at their side. But sometimes..... They would hide them..... in a ten acre lot... now, at first I used to spend hours looking for a calf I knew had been born.. Finally I wised up and just pulled the fresh cow out of the pen and waited for the calf to get hungry and come looking for it's mom..
I started working there in April... Come January we hit a super cold snap.. I remember when it started. I was watching the Super Bowl with my boss and at half time I happened to glance out the window and saw snow flurries coming down...Well.. they had been forecast... What was NOT forecast... was 3 days of constant flurries that stopped when we had 15 inches of snow on the ground....
that was followed by sub-zero temps. Well, we only had about 10 or 12 cows in the dry cow pen at this time so my boss kicked them into the milking herd, trusting me to be able to spot them and not milk them by accident.
Now remember... I used to have to HUNT for newborn calves...
One morning during this cold spell I could not get my van to start up so I could drive to work... I always started my day early, so after screwing with it for about 30 minutes I decided to walk the mile and a half to work. Now... I always got to work at 7am to start milking at 8am.... This day I got there at 7:30... I set up the barn and walked out back..... to find two cows had laid down and had calves right in front of the gate to the holding pen... at the same time... about a half an hour ago... now.. it's about 20 below zero... and both calves were in hyporthermic convulsions. Well.. one at a time I dragged them into the tank room and the upshot was one lived and one didn't. But that got me started thinking... And I thought about it for years...
Now on my job on that big dairy.... we had a super cold spell.. and I was running my butt off trying to keep up with the calves being born.... It was too cold to just leave them outside.... So I would grab them up and dump them into the floorboard of the farm truck I was using and haul them over the the pump-room on dairy#1.. Now.. the vacuum pumps in barn #1 were modified jet engines... They ran on electricity but they kicked out a lot of heat... so the room, even in this weather was about 60 degrees. I was making a circle on diary #1 and I spotted a heifer in D4 (dry pen #4 ) that had a calf on the ground, and the calf was in hyporthermic convulsions.... I got out of the truck and stepped through the feed bunk.... and stood up to see something that stopped me in my tracks... This first calf heifer laid down behind her calf and draped her neck over the baby trying to keep it warm.... Well... at this point I stopped wondering about the intelligence level of cows. I had my answer....
Never discount the instincts of a mother |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Chandler's Mom - 2015-03-09 12:16 AM komet. - 2015-03-08 10:37 PM Chandler's Mom - 2015-03-07 1:40 AM Ghost writer!!! The only person I know that I would trust with that is Ridenfly... and I don't think she likes me very much.. I used to wonder about the intelligence level of cows. And I can tell you when I started thinking about that. It was on the very first cow dairy I worked on. Now... The signs were there... I just didn't see them... Before I started gathering the cows to milk in the morning, I had to walk through the dry cow pen... Usually the fresh cows would have the newborn calves at their side. But sometimes..... They would hide them..... in a ten acre lot... now, at first I used to spend hours looking for a calf I knew had been born.. Finally I wised up and just pulled the fresh cow out of the pen and waited for the calf to get hungry and come looking for it's mom.. I started working there in April... Come January we hit a super cold snap.. I remember when it started. I was watching the Super Bowl with my boss and at half time I happened to glance out the window and saw snow flurries coming down...Well.. they had been forecast... What was NOT forecast... was 3 days of constant flurries that stopped when we had 15 inches of snow on the ground.... that was followed by sub-zero temps. Well, we only had about 10 or 12 cows in the dry cow pen at this time so my boss kicked them into the milking herd, trusting me to be able to spot them and not milk them by accident. Now remember... I used to have to HUNT for newborn calves... One morning during this cold spell I could not get my van to start up so I could drive to work... I always started my day early, so after screwing with it for about 30 minutes I decided to walk the mile and a half to work. Now... I always got to work at 7am to start milking at 8am.... This day I got there at 7:30... I set up the barn and walked out back..... to find two cows had laid down and had calves right in front of the gate to the holding pen... at the same time... about a half an hour ago... now.. it's about 20 below zero... and both calves were in hyporthermic convulsions. Well.. one at a time I dragged them into the tank room and the upshot was one lived and one didn't. But that got me started thinking... And I thought about it for years... Now on my job on that big dairy.... we had a super cold spell.. and I was running my butt off trying to keep up with the calves being born.... It was too cold to just leave them outside.... So I would grab them up and dump them into the floorboard of the farm truck I was using and haul them over the the pump-room on dairy#1.. Now.. the vacuum pumps in barn #1 were modified jet engines... They ran on electricity but they kicked out a lot of heat... so the room, even in this weather was about 60 degrees. I was making a circle on diary #1 and I spotted a heifer in D4 (dry pen #4 ) that had a calf on the ground, and the calf was in hyporthermic convulsions.... I got out of the truck and stepped through the feed bunk.... and stood up to see something that stopped me in my tracks... This first calf heifer laid down behind her calf and draped her neck over the baby trying to keep it warm.... Well... at this point I stopped wondering about the intelligence level of cows. I had my answer.... Never discount the instincts of a mother
Well... most of them anyway. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1210
Location: Kansas | Six pages later and I still can't tell if this is all just stories of cows or if there's hidden meaning behind it all.  |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | HarlanLivesOn - 2015-03-09 12:15 PM
Six pages later and I still can't tell if this is all just stories of cows or if there's hidden meaning behind it all.
Maybe you watched 'The Life Of Pi' one too many times...  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Komet sence you know quite a bit about the Dairy business why dont you try to get hired on as a dairy hand again? Seems you have enought experince |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-12 6:52 PM
Komet sence you know quite a bit about the Dairy business why dont you try to get hired on as a dairy hand again? Seems you have enought experince
I'd want to go back to a small dairy.... Even tho the larger ones have conveniences like wash-type holding pens and automatic take-offs, I doubt I could stand working on another industrial farm.
Edited by komet. 2015-03-12 7:01 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | komet. - 2015-03-12 7:00 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-12 6:52 PM
Komet sence you know quite a bit about the Dairy business why dont you try to get hired on as a dairy hand again? Seems you have enought experince
I'd want to go back to a small dairy.... Even tho the larger ones have conveniences like wash-type holding pens and automatic take-offs, I doubt I could stand working on another industrial farm.
I'm sure the newer dairys are pretty different now adays, but I would look into a smaller dairy thats not so up to date on things. Back 15 years ago we had all the conveniences, but of course it was a big farm, but maybe a small farm like a mom and pop farm that needs someone to come in and help out. |
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