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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
    
Location: TEXAS | Ok when I went to a dena Kirkpatrick clinic she put her Martin crown c on my horse and it was a 9.5" gullet. Coats says my horse needs a 5 7/8" gullet. How can they be so different? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Different philosophies.
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| Stop buying saddles and get you a light weight kids or ladies roping saddle that has a decent sized tree and skirts on it so the bars will distribute your weight over a larger area versus the itty bitty barrel trees with no skirts do .
Regardless of the saddle maker the difference in quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars is only a half of an inch wider below the swells ... the main thing you should be concerned about is if the saddle seat crowns up into your pelvic crotch area and if the bars and/or swells have been scalloped to fit fat thighs or not .. first question a good saddle maker should ask you ... man or woman ... is your height and weight which gives him an idea of the size of your thighs and crotch area .. so he can fit the saddle so your feet will hang down straight below your shoulders ... lol
And then watch this CERVI video for a simple solution to most of your imagined saddle fit problems ... you can fold some hand towels as test shims to build up the dip or protect a high or mutton withered horse like Stingray to level up the saddle to even up the weight distribution..... and then buy you some shims to fit your horse ... no wasted money ...... keep in mind well built saddles do not bend or flex so you have to fill in the empty dips with some type of padding to create equal pressure under the area of the saddle ...
and for God's sake ... don't give me the dry spot dissertation that saddle marketeers lay on you to sell you a saddle or pad ... that flat or less wet spot only tells you that your horse flexes that muscle area more and the sweat is soaked up by the saddle pad ...
and pay attention to keeping the roper type mohair girth on the breast bone and not back on the ribs.. again the more area the girth has the more even and stable the girth makes the saddle ... ... DM TACK cinches with the square topped ring is as good as they get..
https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk
Go look at the NFR videos and notice most of the ladies are riding an old well used ranch type saddle and not the ones they market for saddle makers .. .. and take notice your horse trainers usually have one saddle and blanket pad they ride on 10-20 different horses a day without any issues or concerns ...
And keep in mind if you are running a roping horse ... it is likely he has a jerked down dip behind his withers that needs some shim help ...
GOOD LUCK ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-09-29 10:51 PM
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-09-29 10:38 PM Stop buying saddles and get you a light weight kids or ladies roping saddle that has a decent sized tree and skirts on it so the bars will distribute your weight over a larger area versus the itty bitty barrel trees with no skirts do . Regardless of the saddle maker the difference in quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars is only a half of an inch wider below the swells ... the main thing you should be concerned about is if the saddle seat crowns up into your pelvic crotch area and if the bars and/or swells have been scalloped to fit fat thighs or not .. first question a good saddle maker should ask you ... man or woman ... is your height and weight which gives him an idea of the size of your thighs and crotch area .. so he can fit the saddle so your feet will hang down straight below your shoulders ... lol And then watch this CERVI video for a simple solution to most of your imagined saddle fit problems ... you can fold some hand towels as test shims to build up the dip or protect a high or mutton withered horse like Stingray to level up the saddle to even up the weight distribution..... and then buy you some shims to fit your horse ... no wasted money ...... keep in mind well built saddles do not bend or flex so you have to fill in the empty dips with some type of padding to create equal pressure under the area of the saddle ... and for God's sake ... don't give me the dry spot dissertation that saddle marketeers lay on you to sell you a saddle or pad ... that flat or less wet spot only tells you that your horse flexes that muscle area more and the sweat is soaked up by the saddle pad ... and pay attention to keeping the roper type mohair girth on the breast bone and not back on the ribs.. again the more area the girth has the more even and stable the girth makes the saddle ... ... DM TACK cinches with the square topped ring is as good as they get.. https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk Go look at the NFR videos and notice most of the ladies are riding an old well used ranch type saddle and not the ones they market for saddle makers .. .. and take notice your horse trainers usually have one saddle and blanket pad they ride on 10-20 different horses a day without any issues or concerns ... And keep in mind if you are running a roping horse ... it is likely he has a jerked down dip behind his withers that needs some shim help ... GOOD LUCK ..
Whaaaaaattttttt? lol |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | slacy09 - 2015-09-29 5:55 PM Ok when I went to a dena Kirkpatrick clinic she put her Martin crown c on my horse and it was a 9.5" gullet. Coats says my horse needs a 5 7/8" gullet. How can they be so different?
Buy the Coats. There's tons of threads on here about Martin's elephant sized gullets........ You'll notice so many of them tipping up in the back and riding down hill..... So then they tell you to buy shims. If your saddle fits, you DON'T need shims.
I'd buy a Coats, Shiloh, Double J, Tami Semas, Purdy.......
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| MS2011 - 2015-09-30 8:35 AM
slacy09 - 2015-09-29 5:55 PM Ok when I went to a dena Kirkpatrick clinic she put her Martin crown c on my horse and it was a 9.5" gullet. Coats says my horse needs a 5 7/8" gullet. How can they be so different?
Buy the Coats. There's tons of threads on here about Martin's elephant sized gullets........ You'll notice so many of them tipping up in the back and riding down hill..... So then they tell you to buy shims. If your saddle fits, you DON'T need shims.
I'd buy a Coats, Shiloh, Double J, Tami Semas, Purdy.......
I have three elephant sized martins, none are shimmed, and none pop up in the back.
I reviewed my videos for the last three years and while running the crown c on all three horses didn't pop up in the back.
With the martins they have a lot of rock in the tree so for a regular tree Martin to fit, the horse needs to have a big wither and have their back tie in low.
The nice thing about Martin, is they do have the flat tree for horses who have flat backs or mutton withers.
I do think people who have their martins tipping up probably need to go to a flat tree, and I do believe this is one of Brian's weaknesses as one girl on here had a hard time convincing him she needed to try a flat. When she did, the fit was much better.
The other nice thing is Martin has a trial program so there should be no buyers remorse, you can try one of their loaner saddles to ensure it will work for you and your horse. |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | This thread has some great information on it about the crazy gullet widths.
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=465793&start=1&highlight=wide&highlightmode=1
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | cheryl makofka - 2015-09-30 10:08 AM MS2011 - 2015-09-30 8:35 AM slacy09 - 2015-09-29 5:55 PM Ok when I went to a dena Kirkpatrick clinic she put her Martin crown c on my horse and it was a 9.5" gullet. Coats says my horse needs a 5 7/8" gullet. How can they be so different? Buy the Coats. There's tons of threads on here about Martin's elephant sized gullets........ You'll notice so many of them tipping up in the back and riding down hill..... So then they tell you to buy shims. If your saddle fits, you DON'T need shims.
I'd buy a Coats, Shiloh, Double J, Tami Semas, Purdy.......
I have three elephant sized martins, none are shimmed, and none pop up in the back. I reviewed my videos for the last three years and while running the crown c on all three horses didn't pop up in the back. With the martins they have a lot of rock in the tree so for a regular tree Martin to fit, the horse needs to have a big wither and have their back tie in low. The nice thing about Martin, is they do have the flat tree for horses who have flat backs or mutton withers. I do think people who have their martins tipping up probably need to go to a flat tree, and I do believe this is one of Brian's weaknesses as one girl on here had a hard time convincing him she needed to try a flat. When she did, the fit was much better. The other nice thing is Martin has a trial program so there should be no buyers remorse, you can try one of their loaner saddles to ensure it will work for you and your horse.
Do you have a picture of your Martin? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Murphy - 2015-09-30 10:00 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-30 10:08 AM MS2011 - 2015-09-30 8:35 AM slacy09 - 2015-09-29 5:55 PM Ok when I went to a dena Kirkpatrick clinic she put her Martin crown c on my horse and it was a 9.5" gullet. Coats says my horse needs a 5 7/8" gullet. How can they be so different? Buy the Coats. There's tons of threads on here about Martin's elephant sized gullets........ You'll notice so many of them tipping up in the back and riding down hill..... So then they tell you to buy shims. If your saddle fits, you DON'T need shims.
I'd buy a Coats, Shiloh, Double J, Tami Semas, Purdy.......
I have three elephant sized martins, none are shimmed, and none pop up in the back. I reviewed my videos for the last three years and while running the crown c on all three horses didn't pop up in the back. With the martins they have a lot of rock in the tree so for a regular tree Martin to fit, the horse needs to have a big wither and have their back tie in low. The nice thing about Martin, is they do have the flat tree for horses who have flat backs or mutton withers. I do think people who have their martins tipping up probably need to go to a flat tree, and I do believe this is one of Brian's weaknesses as one girl on here had a hard time convincing him she needed to try a flat. When she did, the fit was much better. The other nice thing is Martin has a trial program so there should be no buyers remorse, you can try one of their loaner saddles to ensure it will work for you and your horse.
I have never learned how to post from my iPad
You cam message me your email and tell me what pictures you want and I can send some to you this afternoon |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Live link........and here we go again.....
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=465793&start=1&highlight=wide
Edited by NJJ 2015-09-30 10:21 AM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-09-29 10:38 PM Stop buying saddles and get you a light weight kids or ladies roping saddle that has a decent sized tree and skirts on it so the bars will distribute your weight over a larger area versus the itty bitty barrel trees with no skirts do . Regardless of the saddle maker the difference in quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars is only a half of an inch wider below the swells ... the main thing you should be concerned about is if the saddle seat crowns up into your pelvic crotch area and if the bars and/or swells have been scalloped to fit fat thighs or not .. first question a good saddle maker should ask you ... man or woman ... is your height and weight which gives him an idea of the size of your thighs and crotch area .. so he can fit the saddle so your feet will hang down straight below your shoulders ... lol And then watch this CERVI video for a simple solution to most of your imagined saddle fit problems ... you can fold some hand towels as test shims to build up the dip or protect a high or mutton withered horse like Stingray to level up the saddle to even up the weight distribution..... and then buy you some shims to fit your horse ... no wasted money ...... keep in mind well built saddles do not bend or flex so you have to fill in the empty dips with some type of padding to create equal pressure under the area of the saddle ... and for God's sake ... don't give me the dry spot dissertation that saddle marketeers lay on you to sell you a saddle or pad ... that flat or less wet spot only tells you that your horse flexes that muscle area more and the sweat is soaked up by the saddle pad ... and pay attention to keeping the roper type mohair girth on the breast bone and not back on the ribs.. again the more area the girth has the more even and stable the girth makes the saddle ... ... DM TACK cinches with the square topped ring is as good as they get.. https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk Go look at the NFR videos and notice most of the ladies are riding an old well used ranch type saddle and not the ones they market for saddle makers .. .. and take notice your horse trainers usually have one saddle and blanket pad they ride on 10-20 different horses a day without any issues or concerns ... And keep in mind if you are running a roping horse ... it is likely he has a jerked down dip behind his withers that needs some shim help ... GOOD LUCK ..
I need a glass of wine after reading this |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I think there is alot of nonsense in some saddle brands. To say a horse wears a 11 gullet is insane.. a true 11 gullet..
somethings dont add up.. my 8 fit my warmblood just fine and yes they are wide  |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-30 10:28 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-09-29 10:38 PM Stop buying saddles and get you a light weight kids or ladies roping saddle that has a decent sized tree and skirts on it so the bars will distribute your weight over a larger area versus the itty bitty barrel trees with no skirts do . Regardless of the saddle maker the difference in quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars is only a half of an inch wider below the swells ... the main thing you should be concerned about is if the saddle seat crowns up into your pelvic crotch area and if the bars and/or swells have been scalloped to fit fat thighs or not .. first question a good saddle maker should ask you ... man or woman ... is your height and weight which gives him an idea of the size of your thighs and crotch area .. so he can fit the saddle so your feet will hang down straight below your shoulders ... lol And then watch this CERVI video for a simple solution to most of your imagined saddle fit problems ... you can fold some hand towels as test shims to build up the dip or protect a high or mutton withered horse like Stingray to level up the saddle to even up the weight distribution..... and then buy you some shims to fit your horse ... no wasted money ...... keep in mind well built saddles do not bend or flex so you have to fill in the empty dips with some type of padding to create equal pressure under the area of the saddle ... and for God's sake ... don't give me the dry spot dissertation that saddle marketeers lay on you to sell you a saddle or pad ... that flat or less wet spot only tells you that your horse flexes that muscle area more and the sweat is soaked up by the saddle pad ... and pay attention to keeping the roper type mohair girth on the breast bone and not back on the ribs.. again the more area the girth has the more even and stable the girth makes the saddle ... ... DM TACK cinches with the square topped ring is as good as they get.. https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk Go look at the NFR videos and notice most of the ladies are riding an old well used ranch type saddle and not the ones they market for saddle makers .. .. and take notice your horse trainers usually have one saddle and blanket pad they ride on 10-20 different horses a day without any issues or concerns ... And keep in mind if you are running a roping horse ... it is likely he has a jerked down dip behind his withers that needs some shim help ... GOOD LUCK ..
I don't think one glass is gonna do it for me......prety sure attempting to make sense of this shall require a bottle and a full moon.  |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-30 8:28 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-09-29 10:38 PM Stop buying saddles and get you a light weight kids or ladies roping saddle that has a decent sized tree and skirts on it so the bars will distribute your weight over a larger area versus the itty bitty barrel trees with no skirts do . Regardless of the saddle maker the difference in quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars is only a half of an inch wider below the swells ... the main thing you should be concerned about is if the saddle seat crowns up into your pelvic crotch area and if the bars and/or swells have been scalloped to fit fat thighs or not .. first question a good saddle maker should ask you ... man or woman ... is your height and weight which gives him an idea of the size of your thighs and crotch area .. so he can fit the saddle so your feet will hang down straight below your shoulders ... lol And then watch this CERVI video for a simple solution to most of your imagined saddle fit problems ... you can fold some hand towels as test shims to build up the dip or protect a high or mutton withered horse like Stingray to level up the saddle to even up the weight distribution..... and then buy you some shims to fit your horse ... no wasted money ...... keep in mind well built saddles do not bend or flex so you have to fill in the empty dips with some type of padding to create equal pressure under the area of the saddle ... and for God's sake ... don't give me the dry spot dissertation that saddle marketeers lay on you to sell you a saddle or pad ... that flat or less wet spot only tells you that your horse flexes that muscle area more and the sweat is soaked up by the saddle pad ... and pay attention to keeping the roper type mohair girth on the breast bone and not back on the ribs.. again the more area the girth has the more even and stable the girth makes the saddle ... ... DM TACK cinches with the square topped ring is as good as they get.. https://youtu.be/l4iVhzeegyk Go look at the NFR videos and notice most of the ladies are riding an old well used ranch type saddle and not the ones they market for saddle makers .. .. and take notice your horse trainers usually have one saddle and blanket pad they ride on 10-20 different horses a day without any issues or concerns ... And keep in mind if you are running a roping horse ... it is likely he has a jerked down dip behind his withers that needs some shim help ... GOOD LUCK ..
I liked this post--made sense to me! My Tod Slone ladies roper is SO comfortable. Has that sweet spot. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Bibliafarm - 2015-09-30 10:47 AM
I think there is alot of nonsense in some saddle brands. To say a horse wears a 11 gullet is insane.. a true 11 gullet..
somethings dont add up.. my 8 fit my warmblood just fine and yes they are wide
I have one who is an 11" gullet, she is built like a whiskey barrel.
This is the only saddle that has not caused pain or muscle damage.
I have tried
Sibley
Lisa Lockhart
Tod sloan
Billy cook
Pozzi pro in regular and wide
I am starting to take offence to the name calling. Saying people who posess these saddles are insane is uncalled for.
Not all horses are designed the same, and saddle fit is subjective, what you say fits one horse, I may say it pinches the same horse, as it is all by feel. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Oh my gosh I never called you Insane. Nor called anyone names.. I said its insane. and yes its my opinion .. but never called YOU insane.but thats how you choose to read it.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-09-30 1:15 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 456
Location: SW MO | I had a martin ( 8 inch gullet) but it didn't work for me, too much rock to the tree. I love coats bc I have back issues and they are the only ones that sit me where I am not in pain But the above poster was correct about the different philosophies, Have you had your horse fitted by coats? I texted Larry pics of a horse and he sent me a tree that worked perfect. It was a 6 1/8, I never would have imagined I would need that small of a gullet but it really comes down to bar angle and amount of rock in the tree |
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