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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-31 4:23 AM Tdove - 2015-10-30 12:38 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-30 4:13 AM NEVER TEACH A BARREL HORSE TO DO ANY KIND OF ROLLBACK ... A rollback requires the horse to stop, squat and turn around which costs you clock time and mixed signals when actually running a pattern which will give you lots of knocked barrels .. A turn around is where the horse keeps their feet moving and learns to stay up under themselves while turning a very small circle similar to a tight barrel turn. As you are working a circle just get smaller and smaller while keeping your forward momentum going and then unwind the circle by increasing the circles back to normal training size. This method never gets the horse thinking stop, dive to the left or right especially when rider gives a slow down or rate cue and horse gets mixed signals and crashes the barrel .. and always keep in mind regardless how boring it is ... they have to learn to do this at a walk, trot, lope before you ever think of speed. This is one of the best training videos I have ever seen that encompasses the basic moves that a horse must know when running barrels, side passing left and right, flying lead changes automatically, how to rate. And as you will notice the turnarounds do have a momentary stop due to teaching the horse to take off from a standing still position into the correct lead and notice the horse follows the trainers cues for a 180 or 360 turn and is cued into the correct lead ... One of the best training devices Becky uses is how to turn the run off from a horses mind .. so don't sneer at her rattling the chain on the door, flopping a blanket and roping the barrel teaches horse not to stampede if they knock a barrel plus rope broke ... and the gate opening and closing ... get the horse working on basic moves while being quiet and thinking ... every thing she does has a purpose and she uses the same routine if she rides 10 horses a day.. so pay attention to no nagging when a mistake is made .. she keeps right on going and will correct it on the next circle or at tomorrows training session .... you can teach a bad habit by being too hard headed and repeating the mistake trying to make a horse correct ... and notice ... there is no tight reins on tucking the nose or riding collected .... loose reins/soft hands/being focused and keeping the momentum of moving forward and keeping feet up under themselves is worth a million bucks and used the lifetime of the horse. ENJOY ... TRAINER BECKY AMIO!! https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk Thank you, I did enjoy the video. Becky looks like an excellent hand and the horse looks better off for her training. The only thing is, why do you make a point to speak negatively about getting a horse to use its hind end better? The highlighted sentence is fine, but getting a horse to collect, drive, and use its hind end for power is very beneficial, to any horse as well as barrel horses. To think that not doing this makes a better horse, is flawed thinking in my opinion. Do you have to do it, no. But the horse in the training video, although excellent, would benefit from getting more collection and hind end drive. Just a thought to consider. You are not going to an English or dressage event and it is impossible for a horse to be "collected" when running ... and anything faster than a lope a horse needs to have his nose sticking out to help the function of his shoulder movement ...... would you believe the nodding of a horses head when running controls neck muscles that aid the horses shoulders to extend and relax at each stride ........... .. If you watch the video again .. you will see the turnarounds keeps the fillies feet under herself and she is learning to power out while also getting in the correct lead to go to the next barrel ..... which also aids in making the quick almost un-noticed flying lead changes ... keep in mind this filly has been ridden 30 times which includes colt starting phase. What you are watching is about a dozen individual movements taught separately coming together in a training session .... that is why you don't nag a horse for you making small mistakes .. you want that forward momentum to remain uninterrupted and as a focused trainer, you will make certain mistake does not happen again by being even more focused as the brains of the training session .. lol If you expect to stop, get collected, then gather when turning a barrel ... then you can toy with the idea of why you may never win a barrel race. If you maintain your forward momentum and rider is in rhythm with their horse and knows how to switch to two handed to square up themselves and the horse prior to each barrel and keeps outside rein slack and guide with inside rein when making their turns ... while riding quiet and deep in the saddle ... YOU STAND A GOOD CHANCE OF ENDING UP AT THE NFR .. https://youtu.be/FqGi3WfY74w
We've seen several of the Becky Amio horses and multiple vids. You can certainly see the English/Dressage (hopefully right term) influence. I guess her style is like everyone elses in that some will like it, some won't. But yes, she does have that kind of control of the hips and can bust out some major lead changes. You seem to have found a trainer you really like which is great. It always going to be objective. I'd like to see the horse gather a little more and be a little softer through the body and not a huge fan of hustling them through the lead changes like that or the continuos crossfire on one but it sure seems like a nice three year old and everyone likes different things.
For the sake of discussion I'd say that from my point of view if anyone focuses on solely the horses head postion to determine collection then they see things differently than I do. No idea if thats right or wrong, just me.
As far as collection at a lope or higher, no they won't gather up like that but if they know how to collect at slower gaits they will transfer that way of moving to a higher speed.
Again, this is just me but collection isn't a move such as head position or something they do its an entire way of moving and doing things.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 679
 
Location: KS | Who does them? I do rollbacks with my barrel horse.
Why? I BELIEVE that it keeps my horse thinking and working off her rear end.
How often? I don't do them often. Whenever I feel it would be a good exercise that day.
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 Go For It!
 
Location: Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-31 4:23 AM
Tdove - 2015-10-30 12:38 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-30 4:13 AM NEVER TEACH A BARREL HORSE TO DO ANY KIND OF ROLLBACK ... A rollback requires the horse to stop, squat and turn around which costs you clock time and mixed signals when actually running a pattern which will give you lots of knocked barrels .. A turn around is where the horse keeps their feet moving and learns to stay up under themselves while turning a very small circle similar to a tight barrel turn. As you are working a circle just get smaller and smaller while keeping your forward momentum going and then unwind the circle by increasing the circles back to normal training size. This method never gets the horse thinking stop, dive to the left or right especially when rider gives a slow down or rate cue and horse gets mixed signals and crashes the barrel .. and always keep in mind regardless how boring it is ... they have to learn to do this at a walk, trot, lope before you ever think of speed. This is one of the best training videos I have ever seen that encompasses the basic moves that a horse must know when running barrels, side passing left and right, flying lead changes automatically, how to rate. And as you will notice the turnarounds do have a momentary stop due to teaching the horse to take off from a standing still position into the correct lead and notice the horse follows the trainers cues for a 180 or 360 turn and is cued into the correct lead ... One of the best training devices Becky uses is how to turn the run off from a horses mind .. so don't sneer at her rattling the chain on the door, flopping a blanket and roping the barrel teaches horse not to stampede if they knock a barrel plus rope broke ... and the gate opening and closing ... get the horse working on basic moves while being quiet and thinking ... every thing she does has a purpose and she uses the same routine if she rides 10 horses a day.. so pay attention to no nagging when a mistake is made .. she keeps right on going and will correct it on the next circle or at tomorrows training session .... you can teach a bad habit by being too hard headed and repeating the mistake trying to make a horse correct ... and notice ... there is no tight reins on tucking the nose or riding collected .... loose reins/soft hands/being focused and keeping the momentum of moving forward and keeping feet up under themselves is worth a million bucks and used the lifetime of the horse. ENJOY ... TRAINER BECKY AMIO!! https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk
Thank you, I did enjoy the video. Becky looks like an excellent hand and the horse looks better off for her training. The only thing is, why do you make a point to speak negatively about getting a horse to use its hind end better? The highlighted sentence is fine, but getting a horse to collect, drive, and use its hind end for power is very beneficial, to any horse as well as barrel horses. To think that not doing this makes a better horse, is flawed thinking in my opinion. Do you have to do it, no. But the horse in the training video, although excellent, would benefit from getting more collection and hind end drive. Just a thought to consider.Â
You are not going to an English or dressage event and it is impossible for a horse to be "collected" when running ... and anything faster than a lope a horse needs to have his nose sticking out to help the function of his shoulder movement ...... would you believe the nodding of a horses head when running controls neck muscles that aid the horses shoulders to extend and relax at each stride ........... ..
If you watch the video again .. you will see the turnarounds keeps the fillies feet under herself and she is learning to power out while also getting in the correct lead to go to the next barrel ..... which also aids in making the quick almost un-noticed flying lead changes ... keep in mind this filly has been ridden 30 times which includes colt starting phase. What you are watching is about a dozen individual movements taught separately coming together in a training session .... that is why you don't nag a horse for you making small mistakes .. you want that forward momentum to remain uninterrupted and as a focused trainer, you will make certain mistake does not happen again by being even more focused as the brains of the training session .. lol
If you expect to stop, get collected, then gather when turning a barrel ... then you can toy with the idea of why you may never win a barrel race.
If you maintain your forward momentum and rider is in rhythm with their horse and knows how to switch to two handed to square up themselves and the horse prior to each barrel and keeps outside rein slack and guide with inside rein when making their turns ... while riding quiet and deep in the saddle ... YOU STAND A GOOD CHANCE OF ENDING UP AT THE NFR ..
https://youtu.be/FqGi3WfY74w
Sorry... I too must disagree with not doing rollbacks. There are several benefits to teaching a horse to roll back, the main one is to get them working off that booty better. I believe that someone else had mentioned that it helps them to learn how to rock that weight to the rear end, when done correctly.
I did watch the video and since you posted it I'm going to give my two cents on it... Here are a couple of things that I see... the horse looks pretty relaxed in the exercises which is great, but this horse is going too fast too soon and getting heavy on her front end. Training forks are good for some things, but I don't like to start a horse in them because it takes away some of that bend and softness that we need in our horses. Becky rides a little forward which is helping to keep that horse a little heavy on the front end. Where it is easiest to see is in the big circle (during the lead changes) when she adds the speed, the mare stumbles on the turn because she is a bit strung out and heavy on her front. I'm certainly not bashing her as a trainer and rider - just pointing out a few things that jump out at me.
You mentioned in your post that "If you expect to stop, get collected, then gather when turning a barrel... then you can toy with the idea of why you may never win a barrel race." That is a pretty close-ended statement, and certainly not accurate. If you replace the word stop with the word rate, you are going to win quite a few barrel races.
Like I always say... The proof is in the pudding. ;)
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-11-01 8:34 AM
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