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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
    
| JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever.  True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years. lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
This.....
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2016-03-04 12:38 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-04 12:36 AM
JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever. True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years.  lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.Â
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | St Criox Lite Rims on all 4 | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | JLBerry - 2016-03-04 6:57 AM
barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-04 12:36 AM
JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever. True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years.  lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.Â
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created.
I agree with your first part. Love St Croix and Kerckhart sx7.
?However, I will disagree with the wedge heel part for certain horses. I have a young streaking six gelding. Horrible feet. Not a farrier in this world would do what I wanted done with this horse for the same reasons you stated above per what your hubby believes. That coupled with so many screw ups on other horses prompted my husband to attend school and learn to shoe. The streaking six gelding has been in wedge aluminum heels for over a year now with pour in pads the first 10 months. He is now out of the pour in pads, for now. He is as sound as ever and now I can finally get him started in training. I have been shocked and pleased with the progress he has made since changing his shoes. I took him to the vet for xrays just to see, and confirmed that whether or not he growns heel is a mute point. We put more stock in the films and the fact that the aluminum wedges set his bone structure correctly. | |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | Sockittoemred - 2016-03-04 11:28 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-04 6:57 AM barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-04 12:36 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever. True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years. lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.
If the horse has everything he needs, yes. ?But when you have a horse like my SS gelding who doesn't have correct structure in his feet, the wedges are a life saver for him. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| missroselee - 2016-03-04 11:35 AM
JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created.
I agree with your first part. Love St Croix and Kerckhart sx7.Â
?However, I will disagree with the wedge heel part for certain horses. I have a young streaking six gelding. Horrible feet. Not a farrier in this world would do what I wanted done with this horse for the same reasons you stated above per what your hubby believes. That coupled with so many screw ups on other horses prompted my husband to attend school and learn to shoe. The streaking six gelding has been in wedge aluminum heels for over a year now with pour in pads the first 10 months. He is now out of the pour in pads, for now. He is as sound as ever and now I can finally get him started in training. I have been shocked and pleased with the progress he has made since changing his shoes. I took him to the vet for xrays just to see, and confirmed that whether or not he growns heel is a mute point. We put more stock in the films and the fact that the aluminum wedges set his bone structure correctly.
We were amazed at the difference in our mare when we went to the pour in pads under the wedges. She doesn't have the pads now that she's retired, but she is still in wedges. It's not fair to the horse to group every horse in under the 'correct shoeing will fix them', because there are horses that can't be fixed. Her x rays are horrible to look at, navicular rotation, thin soles, etc etc. All from bad shoeing as a 4yo and under. She's 11 now, 7 years she's been on a 'correct' shoeing schedule. It didn't matter. That's why I'm such a sticklar for people having their young horses trimmed right. Those first few years are setting them up for life. | |
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 Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150
Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL | Any of ya'll folks with horses in wedges, can you post some pictures of their feet? I haven't had a need for a wedge so I'm curious what the feet look like. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | missroselee - 2016-03-04 10:35 AM
JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created.
I agree with your first part. Love St Croix and Kerckhart sx7.Â
?However, I will disagree with the wedge heel part for certain horses. I have a young streaking six gelding. Horrible feet. Not a farrier in this world would do what I wanted done with this horse for the same reasons you stated above per what your hubby believes. That coupled with so many screw ups on other horses prompted my husband to attend school and learn to shoe. The streaking six gelding has been in wedge aluminum heels for over a year now with pour in pads the first 10 months. He is now out of the pour in pads, for now. He is as sound as ever and now I can finally get him started in training. I have been shocked and pleased with the progress he has made since changing his shoes. I took him to the vet for xrays just to see, and confirmed that whether or not he growns heel is a mute point. We put more stock in the films and the fact that the aluminum wedges set his bone structure correctly.
There are exceptions to every rule :) Glad you found something that finally works for him and he is sound. That's the hardest part sometimes....lol  | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
| I run my rodeo horse with rims all the way around. | |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| missroselee - 2016-03-04 8:36 AM Sockittoemred - 2016-03-04 11:28 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-04 6:57 AM barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-04 12:36 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever. True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years. lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.
If the horse has everything he needs, yes.
?But when you have a horse like my SS gelding who doesn't have correct structure in his feet, the wedges are a life saver for him.
Which is why I said 9 out of 10 | |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-05 3:28 PM missroselee - 2016-03-04 8:36 AM Sockittoemred - 2016-03-04 11:28 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-04 6:57 AM barrelracinbroke - 2016-03-04 12:36 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-02 5:14 AM skye - 2016-03-01 7:08 PM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-02 10:54 AM JLBerry - 2016-03-01 2:25 PM St Croix steel rims on front and I like kerckhart sx7 on back. My husband is a farrier that specializes in barrel horses. So he sees these issues everyday- Razor shoes- good concept but too much flex for most horses Rims on hind feet - too much grab which causes hock issues in long term Aluminum - too much thrush gets under them Wedges - 99% do not need wedges unless severely navicular. The biggest thing he hears is "my horse doesn't grow heel." WRONG! The horse is shod wrong. Back up the toe and trim to proper angles and the heel will grow fine. Natural balance - no horse should be wearing these for an extended period of time, especially if they are running in them. Can tear up tendons/ligaments. Lots of soft tissue problems are created. lol You want to see a lame horse, take the wedges off that mare. She's been in them 6 years with some of the best corrective shoeing measures attempted. Still no heel. Not all horses can be fixed once you screw their feet up - this mare is an example. We have had her for almost 7 years, and she's hardly grew any heel the whole time - with hoof supplements, circulation medications, every tom dick and harry invention to improve hoof quality, this horse has had it, and it helps. It just didn't help her heels. Any farrier who says they can fix every horse is a crock of crap and they know it. You can't make a horse's body do what it's genetics says it can't. Also, never have any issues with thrush in my aluminum shoes, ever. True! My gelding is underslung. He has been this way for 12 years. He was sore in the front tendons and x-rays showed he was at a too low of an angle. The thing that helped him was to wedge him and give up for heel. The heel grows but it grows forward. He has the shoe backed up front and back with 3 degree wedges front and back. I use the bar wedge and have for 10 years. lol....this is exactly what I'm talking about. You have move the toe AND the heel back to get proper growth. This is what no one seems to understand. I'm not talking about you personally...so please don't get offended. I'm talking about most farriers.
In SO many cases (not saying any of these in particular, haven't seen these horses feet) people think they have "no heel" because they're run forward from not being trimmed properly. Trim the heel back to the widest point of the frog, address the bars, and 9 out of 10 horses will grow proper heel. You MAY have to wedge up a horse for a shoeing or two to make sure angles stay correct as new heels grows down instead of forward but, they'll grow heel if trimmed properly.
If the horse has everything he needs, yes.
?But when you have a horse like my SS gelding who doesn't have correct structure in his feet, the wedges are a life saver for him.
Yes you did! I was in the middle of travelling in the mountains in Washington and didn't read your entire post apparently!!!! Sorry!!!liw I ?I have photos somewhere. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2122
Location: The Great Northwest | My gelding is shod with 3 degree bar wedge pads on all fours. He is 14 this year and has had the same foot since I bought him as a two year old. The angle the heel grows at is called underslung and is front and back. He was sore when younger and the vet with x-rays showed why so he has been wedged for years. | |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | why do you say the natural balance shoes cause those problems? just curious. | |
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