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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
  
| I am going to do my best to attach pictures. I have read a dozen articles and watched as many youtube videos I can find on saddle fit. Also opinion from a fellow BB and I am just asking for more because I am so indecisive.
I currently ride in a regular fit Deb Sibley. He has ridden in it for years and years. Took a bad spill 2 summers ago and was diagnosed with kissing spine. This horse never had a sore back a day in his life before this. So... now I am reevaluating my saddle to see if I can find something that fits him better. I don't think my DS is hurting, but I don't know if its necessarily helping either.
I have on trial (need to make my mind up by weeks end) a Cactus Marlene McRae. I personally love how it fits ME & how it rides and based on everything I have read it fits my horse in all the technical ways. 2 Fingers from top of wither to pommel, doesn't rock, seems to have even pressure. Only thing is it might be a tad tight on his left shoulder.
My DS is tight on both shoulders but maybe the amount of flex helps it not cause an issue. My DS also seems to be bridging under my thigh. Ive tried shimming but either I am dumb which is a possibility or it just doesn't seem to be helping. My DS also slides back quite a bit but I also learned I have been placing my saddle too far forward, on his shoulder vs behind. My gelding has a super long, slopey shoulder so my saddle sits much farther back if you put it behind the shoulder than I think the average horse.
Again, attempting pictures of both...
ETA I started exploring saddle options due to some graying on my horse where the bridging is happening. Flecks of gray hair are coming forth. Not real saddle soreness that seems evident to me.
Also I don't have any sweaty pics yet as he rode him over and hour yesterday and he doesn't sweat! Hoping with this heat wave I can get soe good sweat marks.
Edited by stayceem 2016-04-13 1:15 PM
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
 
Location: Dearing, GA | I'm no expert, but based on these photos alone I think the Deb Sibley looks like a better fit. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Just Let Me Run - 2016-04-13 10:09 PM
I'm no expert, but based on these photos alone I think the Deb Sibley looks like a better fit.
What do you notice that seems better? |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Just Let Me Run - 2016-04-13 9:09 PM I'm no expert, but based on these photos alone I think the Deb Sibley looks like a better fit.
I have to agree, it just, from the pics, looks like it fits more flush/smooth on him than the Cactus. But I am no expert either. |
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | If it was my horse and I was seeing just what was in the photos --- I would probably ride in the Sibley with a thin (no more than 1/2 inch and would even consider 1/4" or 3/8") pad for a while and see how that works.
The other, my gut feel from the photos is that the angle of the bars is slightly too wide (more pressure at the top of the bar and flares out a tad too much (maybe the horse is leaning or angle distorted), but that's what I see.
I wonder if the wider Sibley is the same angle, just wider in between? If same angle, I'd consider that one, too.
Nice horse 
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| txbredbr - 2016-04-14 10:51 AM
If it was my horse and I was seeing just what was in the photos --- I would probably ride in the Sibley with a thin (no more than 1/2 inch and would even consider 1/4" or 3/8") pad for a while and see how that works.
The other, my gut feel from the photos is that the angle of the bars is slightly too wide (more pressure at the top of the bar and flares out a tad too much (maybe the horse is leaning or angle distorted), but that's what I see.
I wonder if the wider Sibley is the same angle, just wider in between? If same angle, I'd consider that one, too.
Nice horse
So you think the cactus is too wide?
Ive tried thinner pads with the Sibley but its snug on both shoulders without a pad. But it also is super flexible so maybe that doesn't matter as much? My concern with the Sibley which is why I started exploring saddles is, it seems to be bridging under the jockey. I think because it sits so high on his shoulder. The Sibley sits more "on" the shoulder vs over it... Maybe that isn't a bad thing? |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Judging from pics, the Sibley looks better to me too. Still looks too far forward tho. |
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | You should also take a picture with someone holding his head straight, and stand at his tail to make sure his shoulders are even as well .
Good luck, I hate saddles  |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-04-14 11:00 AM
Judging from pics, the Sibley looks better to me too. Still looks too far forward tho.
That is my problem with the Sibley is its so long!!! If I put it behind the shoulder, the skirt like sits on his tail
I might be able to get some help with more straight on pictures. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| SmokinGirlie - 2016-04-14 11:02 AM
You should also take a picture with someone holding his head straight, and stand at his tail to make sure his shoulders are even as well .
Good luck, I hate saddles
He does have one shoulder that is much bigger but he is likely not standing perfectly straight/square. |
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It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | stayceem - 2016-04-14 11:35 AM SmokinGirlie - 2016-04-14 11:02 AM You should also take a picture with someone holding his head straight, and stand at his tail to make sure his shoulders are even as well .
Good luck, I hate saddles He does have one shoulder that is much bigger but he is likely not standing perfectly straight/square.
My mare does also and I had a custom made pad with pressure relief cut outs on that side, and the built the other one up. My mare is also butt high so my pad tapers to give her relief over the loins. It's really nice and helped my saddles troubles! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | stayceem - 2016-04-14 10:28 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-04-14 11:00 AM
Judging from pics, the Sibley looks better to me too. Still looks too far forward tho.
That is my problem with the Sibley is its so long!!! If I put it behind the shoulder, the skirt like sits on his tail
I might be able to get some help with more straight on pictures.
I can see it being a little long on him. I'd suggest that saddle but with a cut out skirt? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| Im no help! I have the same problem you do with fitting saddles but I can tell you white hairs means theres too much pressure there. I gave up trying to get a saddle to fit on my horses that I run so I use a treeless. My colts get a saddle with a tree so that they will get used to it and I just have to do the best I can with fit. |
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | stayceem - 2016-04-14 10:57 AM txbredbr - 2016-04-14 10:51 AM If it was my horse and I was seeing just what was in the photos --- I would probably ride in the Sibley with a thin (no more than 1/2 inch and would even consider 1/4" or 3/8") pad for a while and see how that works.
The other, my gut feel from the photos is that the angle of the bars is slightly too wide (more pressure at the top of the bar and flares out a tad too much (maybe the horse is leaning or angle distorted), but that's what I see.
I wonder if the wider Sibley is the same angle, just wider in between? If same angle, I'd consider that one, too.
Nice horse
So you think the cactus is too wide? Ive tried thinner pads with the Sibley but its snug on both shoulders without a pad. But it also is super flexible so maybe that doesn't matter as much? My concern with the Sibley which is why I started exploring saddles is, it seems to be bridging under the jockey. I think because it sits so high on his shoulder. The Sibley sits more "on" the shoulder vs over it... Maybe that isn't a bad thing?
I've had a Sibly before, but it was prior to the wider tree they began making --- the one I had was too narrow, and I haven't got to try the wider one, yet.
Yes, I think the cactus may be too wide, maybe not the gullet width but the angle.
In a search for quick explanation I can across this great description on Rod Nikkel site: A) Problems with tree/horse interaction:
To fit properly, a tree has to fit both the size and the shape of the horse. While a number of measurements can label size, shape is more difficult to classify. Both are vital to getting the bar to match the curves of the horse’s back. (These are discussed in more depth and illustrated in our Factors That Affect Tree Fit page.)
1) Size:
a) Width between bars: Horses vary in distance from side to side across the back. A horse that is narrower will need the bars closer together while a broad backed horse will need the bars farther apart. A tree that is too narrow will sit only on the lower part of the bars, which results in it sitting high, and having less surface area on the horse. A tree that is too wide will sit low on the horse (possibly hitting the withers) and may no longer contact the horse with the lower part of the bars. If the shape of the bars is correct for the horse, incorrect widths shouldn’t cause major problems (unless they hit the withers). The tree will just sit a bit higher or lower with less surface area in contact with the horse. This is true unless the size misfit is extreme or the bar surface area is minimal to start with. (See our Why We Use Hand Hole Width Instead of Gullet Width page for further explanation.)
b) Angle between bars: Horses’ backs also vary in shape when seen from behind. Some are more A shaped, some are more upside-down U shaped, and some are sideways C shaped. The more A shaped horses need a narrower angle, and the rounder horses need a wider angle. While wider horses generally tend to be rounder, these shapes do not always vary consistently with the width. In other words, you can have a wide backed horse that is more A shaped or, more commonly, a narrow backed horse that is very round. Incorrect angles are more likely to cause problems than incorrect widths. An angle that is too narrow (acute) will cause the bottoms of the bars to dig into the horse. An angle that is too wide (flat) may cause excess pressure along the top of the bar. This is often seen most severely in the wither pocket and bar tip areas.
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| txbredbr - 2016-04-15 3:22 PM
stayceem - 2016-04-14 10:57 AM txbredbr - 2016-04-14 10:51 AM If it was my horse and I was seeing just what was in the photos --- I would probably ride in the Sibley with a thin (no more than 1/2 inch and would even consider 1/4" or 3/8") pad for a while and see how that works.
The other, my gut feel from the photos is that the angle of the bars is slightly too wide (more pressure at the top of the bar and flares out a tad too much (maybe the horse is leaning or angle distorted), but that's what I see.
I wonder if the wider Sibley is the same angle, just wider in between? If same angle, I'd consider that one, too.
Nice horse
So you think the cactus is too wide? Ive tried thinner pads with the Sibley but its snug on both shoulders without a pad. But it also is super flexible so maybe that doesn't matter as much? My concern with the Sibley which is why I started exploring saddles is, it seems to be bridging under the jockey. I think because it sits so high on his shoulder. The Sibley sits more "on" the shoulder vs over it... Maybe that isn't a bad thing?
Yes, I think the cactus may be too wide, maybe not the gullet width but the angle.
In a search for quick explanation I can across this great description on Rod Nikkel site: A) Problems with tree/horse interaction:
To fit properly, a tree has to fit both the size and the shape of the horse. While a number of measurements can label size, shape is more difficult to classify. Both are vital to getting the bar to match the curves of the horse’s back. (These are discussed in more depth and illustrated in our Factors That Affect Tree Fit page.)
1) Size:
a) Width between bars: Horses vary in distance from side to side across the back. A horse that is narrower will need the bars closer together while a broad backed horse will need the bars farther apart. A tree that is too narrow will sit only on the lower part of the bars, which results in it sitting high, and having less surface area on the horse. A tree that is too wide will sit low on the horse (possibly hitting the withers) and may no longer contact the horse with the lower part of the bars. If the shape of the bars is correct for the horse, incorrect widths shouldn’t cause major problems (unless they hit the withers). The tree will just sit a bit higher or lower with less surface area in contact with the horse. This is true unless the size misfit is extreme or the bar surface area is minimal to start with. (See our Why We Use Hand Hole Width Instead of Gullet Width page for further explanation.)
b) Angle between bars: Horses’ backs also vary in shape when seen from behind. Some are more A shaped, some are more upside-down U shaped, and some are sideways C shaped. The more A shaped horses need a narrower angle, and the rounder horses need a wider angle. While wider horses generally tend to be rounder, these shapes do not always vary consistently with the width. In other words, you can have a wide backed horse that is more A shaped or, more commonly, a narrow backed horse that is very round. Incorrect angles are more likely to cause problems than incorrect widths. An angle that is too narrow (acute) will cause the bottoms of the bars to dig into the horse. An angle that is too wide (flat) may cause excess pressure along the top of the bar. This is often seen most severely in the wither pocket and bar tip areas.
Thank you. I had some awful weird dry spots yesterday when I finally got him sweaty. I am going to try and post.
Some that sell these Marlene saddles are convinced a 3/4 inch pad will make all the difference but I am afraid to keep trying it and it make him sore. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| From last nights ride
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1035
Location: TN | stayceem - 2016-04-15 3:45 PM From last nights ride
I am definitely no expert, but the dry spots look like there is either too much pressure behind the shoulders or too little contact. Definitely some unevenness. |
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