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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
 
| What is all of your experience with airway issues?
I've had to deal with a few, but not one like this, so I don't know where to start...
This mare of mine I would say you would never know if you weren't paying attention had an air issue.
but I notice that she gets Huffing fairly easily - NEVER coughs - and once she gets to the point of im done working she will "try" to breath through her mouth - I know they cant - but that's what it looks like, she opens her mouth and its very fluid like sounding.
she is a very very busy minded horse and extremely hot. but I'm not sure if this would relate to her issue but she also sweats so easily, just a casual ride she will be drenched!
I have put her on dex, ventiplumin, and spirulina as well as a couple other herb blends and nothing made a difference. I have talked to my vet and she listened to her lungs and they sounded fine, we didn't get investigating it much, but its starting to really bug me now. I want to look into this deeper.
Just wondering what everyones thoughts were! | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Not saying that's what your mare has but my PSSM mare sweats like crazy and makes a lot of noise breathing and sometimes struggles to breath it seems like. I know it can be a symptom for type 1 or 2. My other mare with a ton of breathing problems I have on Dex and Ventipulmin and she is fine again | |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Contact Herbie on here. She has a horse who had airway issues. She put him on curost and it fixed him. | |
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  Expert
Posts: 1584
 
Location: Central Texas | If the horse has ever been pastured in a hot humid climate, then it has the possibility of Equine Nasopharyngeal/tracheal cicatrix. Five of my eight have it. As far as I know, it can only be diagnosed by scoping. There is no known cure and it progresses until the horse suffocates or gets a traecheostomy (sp?). | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Marfan - 2016-11-22 8:24 AM If the horse has ever been pastured in a hot humid climate, then it has the possibility of Equine Nasopharyngeal/tracheal cicatrix. Five of my eight have it. As far as I know, it can only be diagnosed by scoping. There is no known cure and it progresses until the horse suffocates or gets a traecheostomy (sp?).
Mine responded to the pythium vaccine and have been able to remain on pasture.
You need to get her scoped to see what is going on. A BAL might be useful too. | |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Her soft palate is displacing, which is what is causing what appears to be mouth breathing, likely due to restricted airways and a dysfunctional glottis that is heavy and vascular due to mucous and phlegm. I would first and foremost take her off of any and all processed feed asap. Get the best quality forage you can buy, I prefer alfalfa, and get her started on the Cur-OST Total Support and Immune and Repair combined with Adapt & Calm right away. I would be willing to bet her "hotness" is due to her inability to breathe and makes her panic. I've dealt with this first hand and have shared my story many times on here. My horse panicked and tried to buck me off running home from the third barrel due to his inability to breathe and then developed an issue of running off out of the arena before we got this issue figured out and resolved.
I spent thousands at vets on treatments and medications and he continued to deteriorate....to the point that one vet suggested we put him down, as he would likely suffocate once hot weather arrived. Thankfully I continued researching and found the Cur-OST products and they truly saved this horse's life. I will attach a picture below of the change in him in the first 30 days on the alfalfa, whole grain diet with Cur-OST products added. It's been quite a journey and several others have had the same experiences I have with respiratory horses who seemed to be beyond helping. Don't wait! The longer these issues exist, the more irreversible damage is done to the lungs, and the more scar tissue will develop. When you start this program, expect to see increased coughing the first couple of weeks. That is the mucous and phlegm loosening and the only way to expel is to cough it up and out. Light excersice to encourage the cough.
Lastly, soft palate displacement can become a mechanical issue due to deformity of the glottis due to scar tissue. One vet recommended I do the tie forward surgery, which I chose not to do, as I felt like the displacement was the secondary issue to the respiratory problems.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| Herbie - 2016-11-22 8:54 AM
Her soft palate is displacing, which is what is causing what appears to be mouth breathing, likely due to restricted airways and a dysfunctional glottis that is heavy and vascular due to mucous and phlegm. I would first and foremost take her off of any and all processed feed asap.  Get the best quality forage you can buy, I prefer alfalfa, and get her started on the Cur-OST Total Support and Immune and Repair combined with Adapt & Calm right away. I would be willing to bet her "hotness" is due to her inability to breathe and makes her panic. I've dealt with this first hand and have shared my story many times on here. My horse panicked and tried to buck me off running home from the third barrel due to his inability to breathe and then developed an issue of running off out of the arena before we got this issue figured out and resolved.Â
I spent thousands at vets on treatments and medications and he continued to deteriorate....to the point that one vet suggested we put him down, as he would likely suffocate once hot weather arrived. Thankfully I continued researching and found the Cur-OST products and they truly saved this horse's life. I will attach a picture below of the change in him in the first 30 days on the alfalfa, whole grain diet with Cur-OST products added. It's been quite a journey and several others have had the same experiences I have with respiratory horses who seemed to be beyond helping. Don't wait! The longer these issues exist, the more irreversible damage is done to the lungs, and the more scar tissue will develop. When you start this program, expect to see increased coughing the first couple of weeks. That is the mucous and phlegm loosening and the only way to expel is to cough it up and out. Light excersice to encourage the cough.Â
Lastly, soft palate displacement can become a mechanical issue due to deformity of the glottis due to scar tissue. One vet recommended I do the tie forward surgery, which I chose not to do, as I felt like the displacement was the secondary issue to the respiratory problems.Â
oh wow! that's a transformation! how did you discover your horse had that issue? scoping her??
Her diet is actually fairly simple! shes on free choice grass in the summer and second cut alfalfa and grass hay, free choice, we put out 2 bales for them.
her overall body condition looks great! shes always slick and shiney! and good muscle mass.
she NEVER has a cough, but sweats instantly and breaths heavy just walking. and when shes heavily worked, when she gets to the point of open mouth, that's it, shes done. wont want to move anywhere
I bought her this time last year as a unbroken 4 year old. so I just chalked a lot of it off to being unfit. but it hasn't gotten any better! time to investigate! | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | It's a long story. I've owned this horse since he was a weanling, and as a yearling I had some friends stop in on their way home from the HP sale in OKC. Some of the horses they had on the trailer had the OKC funk and even though those horses never got near my horse, he caught it simply through contact of mutual space. He got very, very sick at that time and has since suffered from what I considered to be allergies and always seemed to be short of breath. I scoped him as a 2 YO for that reason and vet said he had a whole lot of mucous in his airways and gave me some ventipulmin to give him, which he couldn't handle due to it making him very difficult to handle as a yearling stud. If kept in a stall, he would develop a cough or when it was super dusty, so I always managed with wetting everything down and other products. We didn't break him until he was 3 and then ran him on the racetrack as a 3 YO and he didn't have any respiratory issues there, however he was getting alot of gallop work in and that was keeping his airways clean and all the trash blown out.
We brought him home the end of his 3 YO year and I started riding him as a 4 YO and put him on the pattern once he had a good handle. In 45 days he was cruising a really nice pattern at home, so we started exhibitioning. All was going well, but I noticed him being short winded and the longer i'd ride, the more aggravated he would get. I assumed he was just one of those horses that didn't appreciate the monotony of training and would get aggravated doing the same things over and over, so we started exhibitioning. First exhibition went well, but the more I did and the more the intensity increased, the more intolerant he got. Again, I was thinking he knew the program and just didn't appreciate slow work and was ready to cruise on through. So at home one Sunday, I warmed him up like an open horse, put his boots on and made a competitive run on him. He worked flawlessly, I turned the third barrel all grins, and when I got to about where the timer would be I sat down and went to pull him up, and he broke in two bucking. Literally went from a run to a hit the ground and blow in one place for about 10 seconds. Somehow I rode him through it, and proceeded to trying to kill him. As soon as I pulled him up he was doing the mouth breathing, but I didn't care....I rode him until I thought he'd die. The more I rode, the worse he got. I tied him up and let him stay there for a while and saddled him again the next day, and he rode horrible right off the bat. Super stiff, couldn't lope him at all without a big hump in his back and the longer we rode, the tighter and tighter he got, so I made a vet appt. They went through him with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find anything other than mucous again in his airways and glottis was very vascular due to inflammation and aggravation. More Ventipulmin, Ranitidine, and injected his TMJ and said good luck. I kept riding him through the fall, but couldn't bring myself to make another run on him for fear of him doing that again. I'm not a bronc rider and the incident scared me knowing how quickly and without warning it happened....and at a dead run.
When the time changed that fall, I sent him out to someone with full disclosure of what had happened and told them to haul him and season him. This was fall of his 4 YO year. His second time entered he outran Kellies Chick and Marthas Six Shooter, but was an idiot after the run. Quiet as a mouse before, but an idiot after.....leaping through the air, running sideways, dancing around. Off to the vet again for another scope thinking he was bleeding. Nope. More drugs, steroids, nebulizers, etc and was told to keep going, so we did, as we'd nominated him for a couple futurities by this point due to the promise he'd shown in where he was running against some tough horses. Over the next couple month, he continued to get more and more anxiety after a run, continued to drop weight and just not look good, and we went to the vet again and again and they continued to increase the dosages, add medications, etc. The horse was still working well and still stopping the clock big, but just wasn't doing well. That being said, I didn't realize how poor he was doing until I showed up to the futurity to see him, as he was out of state at the time. When I got there I found a horse who was panting in his stall, eyes bugged out of his head in clear distress, and he had a heave line from his girth to his flank, so needless to say, I scratched him and went straight to a different vet. We did an exercise scope and he was displaced upon insertion, then displaced another 8 times in a 10 minute exercise session at a jog and lope. Vet suggested we do tie forward surgery, which I wasn't ready to do. I went home to reevaluate and get a second opinion and my horse continued to worsen to the point he couldn't even take a deep enough breath to cough even on 10 cc of Ventipulmin and Dex. Second vet said that he was at the max dose of medications and given his resistance to them, there wasn't much more that could be done and the surgery would be useless at this point, as it wasn't the primary issue, and offered to write a letter to my insurance company for me. I wasn't ready to do that either, so I began researching.
What started with French's mustard led me to turmeric, which led me to curcumin, which led me to BCM-95 curcumin, which led me to Cur-Ost. After a couple of weeks of visiting with Dr. Schell and him taking the time to explain to me why other treatments had failed and why the Cur-Ost would get us back on track, I was still skeptical and reluctant. He asked me what I had to lose and said give me 2 weeks. Worst case scenario you still have a very sick horse that you have to make a tough decision for. Best case scenario we get him back on track....so I did it and took one last leap of faith. Sure glad I did! I haven't looked back, and that was almost 2 years ago now. My horse continues to do well and thrive on 2 flakes of alfalfa, a half scoop of whole oats, a cup of BOSS and his Cur-OST daily. I don't supplement of feed anything else. This is a picture of him after being on this program for 6 months. This was the dead of summer and he was on 24/7 turnout in the heat. I'd say he's done well and continues to improve. What I thought was quirks and him being a jerk was actually him telling me I CAN'T! Listen to your horse! I wish I had sooner.
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Herbie - 2016-11-22 10:09 AM It's a long story. I've owned this horse since he was a weanling, and as a yearling I had some friends stop in on their way home from the HP sale in OKC. Some of the horses they had on the trailer had the OKC funk and even though those horses never got near my horse, he caught it simply through contact of mutual space. He got very, very sick at that time and has since suffered from what I considered to be allergies and always seemed to be short of breath. I scoped him as a 2 YO for that reason and vet said he had a whole lot of mucous in his airways and gave me some ventipulmin to give him, which he couldn't handle due to it making him very difficult to handle as a yearling stud. If kept in a stall, he would develop a cough or when it was super dusty, so I always managed with wetting everything down and other products. We didn't break him until he was 3 and then ran him on the racetrack as a 3 YO and he didn't have any respiratory issues there, however he was getting alot of gallop work in and that was keeping his airways clean and all the trash blown out.
We brought him home the end of his 3 YO year and I started riding him as a 4 YO and put him on the pattern once he had a good handle. In 45 days he was cruising a really nice pattern at home, so we started exhibitioning. All was going well, but I noticed him being short winded and the longer i'd ride, the more aggravated he would get. I assumed he was just one of those horses that didn't appreciate the monotony of training and would get aggravated doing the same things over and over, so we started exhibitioning. First exhibition went well, but the more I did and the more the intensity increased, the more intolerant he got. Again, I was thinking he knew the program and just didn't appreciate slow work and was ready to cruise on through. So at home one Sunday, I warmed him up like an open horse, put his boots on and made a competitive run on him. He worked flawlessly, I turned the third barrel all grins, and when I got to about where the timer would be I sat down and went to pull him up, and he broke in two bucking. Literally went from a run to a hit the ground and blow in one place for about 10 seconds. Somehow I rode him through it, and proceeded to trying to kill him. As soon as I pulled him up he was doing the mouth breathing, but I didn't care....I rode him until I thought he'd die. The more I rode, the worse he got. I tied him up and let him stay there for a while and saddled him again the next day, and he rode horrible right off the bat. Super stiff, couldn't lope him at all without a big hump in his back and the longer we rode, the tighter and tighter he got, so I made a vet appt. They went through him with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find anything other than mucous again in his airways and glottis was very vascular due to inflammation and aggravation. More Ventipulmin, Ranitidine, and injected his TMJ and said good luck. I kept riding him through the fall, but couldn't bring myself to make another run on him for fear of him doing that again. I'm not a bronc rider and the incident scared me knowing how quickly and without warning it happened....and at a dead run.
When the time changed that fall, I sent him out to someone with full disclosure of what had happened and told them to haul him and season him. This was fall of his 4 YO year. His second time entered he outran Kellies Chick and Marthas Six Shooter, but was an idiot after the run. Quiet as a mouse before, but an idiot after.....leaping through the air, running sideways, dancing around. Off to the vet again for another scope thinking he was bleeding. Nope. More drugs, steroids, nebulizers, etc and was told to keep going, so we did, as we'd nominated him for a couple futurities by this point due to the promise he'd shown in where he was running against some tough horses. Over the next couple month, he continued to get more and more anxiety after a run, continued to drop weight and just not look good, and we went to the vet again and again and they continued to increase the dosages, add medications, etc. The horse was still working well and still stopping the clock big, but just wasn't doing well. That being said, I didn't realize how poor he was doing until I showed up to the futurity to see him, as he was out of state at the time. When I got there I found a horse who was panting in his stall, eyes bugged out of his head in clear distress, and he had a heave line from his girth to his flank, so needless to say, I scratched him and went straight to a different vet. We did an exercise scope and he was displaced upon insertion, then displaced another 8 times in a 10 minute exercise session at a jog and lope. Vet suggested we do tie forward surgery, which I wasn't ready to do. I went home to reevaluate and get a second opinion and my horse continued to worsen to the point he couldn't even take a deep enough breath to cough even on 10 cc of Ventipulmin and Dex. Second vet said that he was at the max dose of medications and given his resistance to them, there wasn't much more that could be done and the surgery would be useless at this point, as it wasn't the primary issue, and offered to write a letter to my insurance company for me. I wasn't ready to do that either, so I began researching.
What started with French's mustard led me to turmeric, which led me to curcumin, which led me to BCM-95 curcumin, which led me to Cur-Ost. After a couple of weeks of visiting with Dr. Schell and him taking the time to explain to me why other treatments had failed and why the Cur-Ost would get us back on track, I was still skeptical and reluctant. He asked me what I had to lose and said give me 2 weeks. Worst case scenario you still have a very sick horse that you have to make a tough decision for. Best case scenario we get him back on track....so I did it and took one last leap of faith. Sure glad I did! I haven't looked back, and that was almost 2 years ago now. My horse continues to do well and thrive on 2 flakes of alfalfa, a half scoop of whole oats, a cup of BOSS and his Cur-OST daily. I don't supplement of feed anything else. This is a picture of him after being on this program for 6 months. This was the dead of summer and he was on 24/7 turnout in the heat. I'd say he's done well and continues to improve. What I thought was quirks and him being a jerk was actually him telling me I CAN'T! Listen to your horse! I wish I had sooner.
Your story is a lot like mine. Did your horse displace his soft palate just due to all the airway inflammation/irritation? Did you have to do the tie forward surgery since he did so well on the curost?
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2016-11-22 5:31 PM
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