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 Expert
Posts: 2097
 
Location: Deep South | This is the first I've heard of this. In the comments is where the poster states that her vet is blaming the alfalfa diet as the cause.
Thoughts?
https://www.facebook.com/tina.price.7169/posts/10202485097640186?pnr...
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| There are several risk factors for enterolith development. Geography is one. Certain areas like the southwestern U.S. produce many more cases than others, particularly California and Arizona. In California, enteroliths are the leading cause of surgical colic cases. The mineral composition of the soil and feed material grown there are suspected culprits. The risk does not seem as high in the Northwest, but approximately five cases are seen at the WSU Veterinary Teaching Hospital each year.
"Even horses that travel to Arizona or California for shows or other events can develop enteroliths while visiting," said Julie Cary, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACVS, clinical instructor of equine surgery and emergency care at WSU.
Enteroliths also seem more common in horses fed a diet of more than 50% alfalfa hay. They are more commonly found in adult horses between 10 and 15 years of age, in female horses, and in the Arabian horse breed, although the problem can occur in horses of any breed.
(full article) http://www.thehorse.com/articles/21036/colic-and-equine-enteroliths... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| I’ve heard that before. A while ago I did some looking up on it, because there’s not enough I’m already paranoid about apparently, and this sums up what I read in a lot of papers:
Any horse can develop enteroliths, but the stones occur much more commonly under certain conditions. “The rate of formation seems to be variable and may be affected by pH, mineral availability and colonic motility,” says Pierce. In other words, here are the conditions under which enteroliths are most likely to form:
• Higher than average pH within the right dorsal colon. The high pH creates an alkaline environment, which encourages crystallization of minerals. (An acidic environment, in contrast, is more corrosive and dissolves minerals more readily.
Why some horses have a more alkaline environment within the colon is not completely understood, but one of the biggest contributors is a diet rich in alfalfa. “Alfalfa hay is higher in protein and has a higher buffering capacity than most other hays due to its mineral content,” says Hassel. “This contributes to more effective alkalinization---higher pH---in both the stomach and colon. A higher pH provides a more ideal environment for the mineralization of struvite around a nidus.” In one survey, 98 percent of horses with enteroliths were receiving a ration that consisting of at least 50 percent alfalfa hay.
Site: http://equusmagazine.com/article/understanding-enteroliths-8139
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | There was a pretty in-depth study about these done in Europe. They even tested the water to see if mineral build up in the water caused them. My old stud was constantly leaking urine. I took him to WSU, they felt like he passed a bladder stone it ruined the sphincter to his bladder. We tried a few things and I completely changed his diet but a year later he was the same and they said another stone was forming in his bladder. I was not feeding any alfalfa that last year. I owned for 3 years, prior to that he was in Wyoming and the previous owners fed alfalfa cubes exclusively. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Yes, we are taught that in vet school.
"Coastal causes impactions and alfalfa causes enteroliths." But remember, many horses eat coastal their whole lives and don't impact, and many horses eat alfalfa and never make a stone... But it's something I always keep in the back of my mind. Ideally we would all feed orchard or timothy but thats hard to find in SE Texas!
Edited by casualdust07 2017-02-14 8:18 AM
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | kakbarrelracer - 2017-02-14 2:56 AM
There was a pretty in-depth study about these done in Europe. They even tested the water to see if mineral build up in the water caused them. My old stud was constantly leaking urine. I took him to WSU, they felt like he passed a bladder stone it ruined the sphincter to his bladder. We tried a few things and I completely changed his diet but a year later he was the same and they said another stone was forming in his bladder. I was not feeding any alfalfa that last year. I owned for 3 years, prior to that he was in Wyoming and the previous owners fed alfalfa cubes exclusively.
enteroliths and bladder stones are not related really in that way. Herbivores in general have alkaline urine which encourage the formation of calcium oxalate stones. But there's a lot of reasons why a horse could develop bladder stones and diet is a smaller aspect of it.
Edited by casualdust07 2017-02-14 8:21 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | I live in the middle of entrolith country in California. If someone tells you that they know exactly what causes this, just walk away. While high alfalfa feeding has been associated with stones, I know an Arabian horse breeder that feeds no alfalfa, grows his own grass hay on his ranch which he feeds exclusively, and had seven stone surgeries in one year. Arabs are considerably more prone to entroliths than QH or TB horses in the same geographic area. There is a dietary aspect, genetic aspect, and environmental aspect involved. Also, level of exercise and mineral composition of the water seem to effect the issue.
The stone forms around a nucleus that is a foreign object like a piece of wire, wood or even a shoe nail head, and they are formed of mostly magnesium along with some ammonium and phosphate.
I don't see them as much as we used to 20 years ago. I don't think anyone knows why that is. Some people feed apple cider vinegar every day and swear that it prevents stones.
Bottom line is that no one really knows for sure. There are just too many separate factors involved to point a finger at just one cause. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | We fed Alfalfa/Timothy hay to horses all my life and had never heard of Entroith stones and we alos had very few colic incidences in Central Illinois. My dad use to have between 30 to 40 horses and I can count on one hand how many times he had a horse colic. He also fed cracked corn and oats. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Nevertooold - 2017-02-14 8:40 PM
We fed Alfalfa/Timothy hay to horses all my life and had never heard of Entroith stones and we alos had very few colic incidences in Central Illinois. My dad use to have between 30 to 40 horses and I can count on one hand how many times he had a horse colic. He also fed cracked corn and oats.
We grow Timothy treefoil with alittle alfalfa.we love our hay:) |
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 Veteran
Posts: 158
| ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't! Edited to add that I really hope people know this saying lol... looks a lot worse bleeped out ??
Edited by gunner07 2017-02-15 12:38 AM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | gunner07 - 2017-02-15 1:36 AM
****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't! Edited to add that I really hope people know this saying lol... looks a lot worse bleeped out ??
Lol.GOT IT!! |
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | winwillows - 2017-02-14 4:49 PM
I live in the middle of entrolith country in California. If someone tells you that they know exactly what causes this, just walk away. While high alfalfa feeding has been associated with stones, I know an Arabian horse breeder that feeds no alfalfa, grows his own grass hay on his ranch which he feeds exclusively, and had seven stone surgeries in one year. Arabs are considerably more prone to entroliths than QH or TB horses in the same geographic area. There is a dietary aspect, genetic aspect, and environmental aspect involved. Also, level of exercise and mineral composition of the water seem to effect the issue.
The stone forms around a nucleus that is a foreign object like a piece of wire, wood or even a shoe nail head, and they are formed of mostly magnesium along with some ammonium and phosphate.
I don't see them as much as we used to 20 years ago. I don't think anyone knows why that is. Some people feed apple cider vinegar every day and swear that it prevents stones.
Bottom line is that no one really knows for sure. There are just too many separate factors involved to point a finger at just one cause.
Thank you. I was hoping you would weigh in. My feed program is alfalfa based, so I was concerned. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I have a neighbor that is very dilligent about observing her horses manure. She finds a stone on occasion that no normal person would ever notice. Many are passed without anybody even noticing. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Whiteboy - 2017-02-15 10:26 AM
I have a neighbor that is very dilligent about observing her horses manure. She finds a stone on occasion that no normal person would ever notice. Many are passed without anybody even noticing.
This is true. I have found small ones in the pasture before. An active hind gut will move those through. |
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