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Common Sense and then some
    
Location: So. California | It is my understanding that ICE is detaining/deporting only illegals with a criminal background. I would imagine there is a protocol for what a criminal background is. Are they deporting illegals with A and B Felonies or are they grouping all levels of felonies and misdemeanors as a "criminal" background? IDK And yes, I know there is an argument that they are all criminals, but I'm trying to understand what ICE's directive is.
To think that we can or will round up and deport 15 million (or whatever the number is) of illegals is pie in the sky thinking. It's not going to happen, impossible to do physically or financially. It's just not a viable option.
The truth is that many of illegals are "employed" as a low cost labor force. Agriculture, construction, manual labor, etc. If anyone thinks an American is going to go out and tend/pick vegetables all day long in a field, for minimum wage, you're dreaming. Living in the land of agriculture, there is no way in holy heck this is going to happen. The state of Washington lost a portion of their apple crop a year so back, due to a shorage in the labor force, they couldn't hire enough willing Americans to work in the orchards. Minimum wage of course. (far more than what they pay illegals...) Then there is the argument, well, if the agriculture industry would pay a "fair" wage, they could get american employees. Probably, some truth to that. However, I can't afford $5 an apple, or $10 for a bunch of asperagus, so this is NOT a feasible option either. Remember, the cost just gets passed along to the consumer. American fruit and produce would be too expensive, and we would then import ALL of our fruit and vegetables... would destroy our agriculture industry.
Then there is the garment industry. Huge in LA, they employee mostly illegals. They generally pay by piece work, long hours, in not so great conditions, unsavory parts of the city. So all those "Made in the USA" garments, were most likey pieced together by illegals, and they still cost more than the dreaded Chinese imports... Not too many americans are running down to the garment district looking for work in a shabby run down warehouse, that pays by the piece.
Construction industry. Not familiar enough to comment, but others already have and it's clear, not too many americans willing to work on a hot roof for 8 hours a day... just is.
I'm not against deporting illegals with a criminal history, in fact I support it 100% (they should be shipped out immediately after they've served their jail time). Though, I am realistic in the absolute requirement and financial dependence on a low cost labor force. A HUGE portion of the economy runs on this, whether anyone likes it or not, it is fact.
A few solutions?
1. Must have one American parent to be considered american, if born in the USA. Otherwise, you are a foreign national. No Welfare benefits to be given.
2. Random drug testing for all Welfare recipients (regardless of citzenship). How is this testing paid for? Those who fail will get kicked off the gravy train, and that in itself, will pay for the drug testing!
3. Immediately deport any illegal alien that has been convicted of a class C felony or greater, upon release from jail/prison.
4. Allow those working illegals (with NO criminal history) a way to acquire a green card in an expediated manner. Therefore, paying taxes.
5. Allow no more than 5 deductions on W-9's, unless proof can be provided via certified birth certificates (or other documentation for deductions). This will force many to pay something into taxes.
Just my humble opinion.... 
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | SC Wrangler - 2017-02-15 1:55 PM euchee - 2017-02-13 6:28 PM NJJ - 2017-02-13 12:30 PM Vickie - 2017-02-13 11:48 AM I have never figured out what part of illegal is so hard to understand. No, they are not "undocumented workers", they are breaking the law by being here, therefore eligible to be deported as a criminal. We will never get wages up as long as bosses can hire illegals for nothing because they have no rights. That is the bigger problem.....start levying BIG fines against the "employers" who knowingly employ illegals and they will stop hiring them!
All this time I thought there was a big fine for hiring illegals, whether knowingly or not. We quit hiring any Mexicans off the street because we couldn't tell if their paperwork was legit or not, and e-verify didn't work very well. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Three 4 Luck - 2017-02-15 4:01 PM
SC Wrangler - 2017-02-15 1:55 PM euchee - 2017-02-13 6:28 PM NJJ - 2017-02-13 12:30 PM Vickie - 2017-02-13 11:48 AM I have never figured out what part of illegal is so hard to understand. No, they are not "undocumented workers", they are breaking the law by being here, therefore eligible to be deported as a criminal. We will never get wages up as long as bosses can hire illegals for nothing because they have no rights. That is the bigger problem.....start levying BIG fines against the "employers" who knowingly employ illegals and they will stop hiring them! Â
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Us, too. If they don't have a social security card and a DL or picture ID or a valid green card that is NOT out of date, then we don't hire. We are a small construction company. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Anniemae - 2017-02-15 3:58 PM It is my understanding that ICE is detaining/deporting only illegals with a criminal background. I would imagine there is a protocol for what a criminal background is. Are they deporting illegals with A and B Felonies or are they grouping all levels of felonies and misdemeanors as a "criminal" background? IDK And yes, I know there is an argument that they are all criminals, but I'm trying to understand what ICE's directive is.
To think that we can or will round up and deport 15 million (or whatever the number is) of illegals is pie in the sky thinking. It's not going to happen, impossible to do physically or financially. It's just not a viable option.
The truth is that many of illegals are "employed" as a low cost labor force. Agriculture, construction, manual labor, etc. If anyone thinks an American is going to go out and tend/pick vegetables all day long in a field, for minimum wage, you're dreaming. Living in the land of agriculture, there is no way in holy heck this is going to happen. The state of Washington lost a portion of their apple crop a year so back, due to a shorage in the labor force, they couldn't hire enough willing Americans to work in the orchards. Minimum wage of course. (far more than what they pay illegals...) Then there is the argument, well, if the agriculture industry would pay a "fair" wage, they could get american employees. Probably, some truth to that. However, I can't afford $5 an apple, or $10 for a bunch of asperagus, so this is NOT a feasible option either. Remember, the cost just gets passed along to the consumer. American fruit and produce would be too expensive, and we would then import ALL of our fruit and vegetables... would destroy our agriculture industry.
Then there is the garment industry. Huge in LA, they employee mostly illegals. They generally pay by piece work, long hours, in not so great conditions, unsavory parts of the city. So all those "Made in the USA" garments, were most likey pieced together by illegals, and they still cost more than the dreaded Chinese imports... Not too many americans are running down to the garment district looking for work in a shabby run down warehouse, that pays by the piece.
Construction industry. Not familiar enough to comment, but others already have and it's clear, not too many americans willing to work on a hot roof for 8 hours a day... just is.
I'm not against deporting illegals with a criminal history, in fact I support it 100% (they should be shipped out immediately after they've served their jail time). Though, I am realistic in the absolute requirement and financial dependence on a low cost labor force. A HUGE portion of the economy runs on this, whether anyone likes it or not, it is fact.
A few solutions?
1. Must have one American parent to be considered american, if born in the USA. Otherwise, you are a foreign national. No Welfare benefits to be given.
2. Random drug testing for all Welfare recipients (regardless of citzenship). How is this testing paid for? Those who fail will get kicked off the gravy train, and that in itself, will pay for the drug testing!
3. Immediately deport any illegal alien that has been convicted of a class C felony or greater, upon release from jail/prison.
4. Allow those working illegals (with NO criminal history) a way to acquire a green card in an expediated manner. Therefore, paying taxes.
5. Allow no more than 5 deductions on W-9's, unless proof can be provided via certified birth certificates (or other documentation for deductions). This will force many to pay something into taxes.
Just my humble opinion....
It's my understanding that much of the produce labor is paid by the planted and/or harvested unit. The ones I have talked to in California who paid by the hour were paying up to $20. Here temporary unskilled harvest labor goes for about $8.00-8.10/hour, but working 80-100 hour weeks, the money is good. I do know ways people cheat illegal and even legal migrant labor, but those bad players are the exception rather than the rule in my experience.
One misconception I would like to correct is most of the food produced is sold by the farmer for market price, whether that was a forward contract or cash sale. Market price is the going rate set by supply and demand via varying mechanisms. For commodities in the U.S., that mechanism is the CBOT. We don't get to raise our prices just because production costs go up. I wish! That's part of why there are fewer farmers on larger farms--economy of scale allows for more efficiency and an improved ability to ride out bad years where costs are higher than market price. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| A lot of truth in what you just said these people are exploited, Americans aren't lazy we want to be treated fairly. I didn't vote for trump but I like a lot of things he is doing. I support the Muslim 100% | |
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  Extreme Veteran
Posts: 403
Location: Armuchee, GA, NW section of Ga | I know that here in Georgia, the poultry industry and the carpet industry would have a really difficult time without the hispanic workers. Landscaping services too. If they are legal or not, who knows? Most of these companies are really LARGE companies with several thousand employees. I assume they have a large HR department who vets the potential employees well before hiring. I know my own small shop vets everyone, and does the proper paperwork to assure they are legal. With the larger mega companies, that need many bodies to operate I do not know if all is above board. After all, they just need a body to operate, anybody will do. I will admit that about 10 years ago I bid out a landscaping job at my house. I went with the crew that gave me the best layout at a decent price. Matter of record, they were hispanic. I hired the company, they hired the workers, but I will say they worked by hand, day break to sun down, 6 days a week. Beautiful work. At that time it didnt cross anyones mind to ask if they checked their workers like they should, but I will say that 3 out of the 4 bids used hispanic workers. It was hot hot dirty work, and I bet that no american workers was on any crew UNLESS it was a small self employeed/own company guy but then he couldnt beat that low price. I also have a guy that has been working for me here at the farm for the past 14 years. He does it all, farm, yard, critter sit, warehouse, delivery and dockhand. He works at three of our companies, all hours. Out of 5 applicants he was the only black guy, I hired him and got critized because of it. People asked why, my own family asked too. Seems they thought I should hire fwmily.....Well it was a matter of looking him in the eye. He said he needed the job and would do a good job. It has worked out well for us both. HE is also my resident manager at our apartment complex. Good choice for us. And yes I vetted him too. | |
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boon
Posts: 1
| I don't think you're wrong with your opinion here.
Personally speaking, I know many people who are here illegally, unfortunately, but they are.
I think that if you're going to be in the US and live here, you should have to be here legally and documented and whatever else the process consists of, no matter how hard it is. I think you shouldn't be allowed without it, no excuses or exceptions.
I also think they should have to pay taxes and that our food stamps, disability goes to our veterans etc first.
Call me crazy. I was emberassed when I had to apply for food stamps a while ago and it was a struggle, I was in school, with a little one and pregnant with another all while working. It was difficult and exhausting but I finally got it and used it for the time being ( I'm no longer on it ) but I think our own should be approved before anyone who isn't here legally should be. | |
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