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Member
Posts: 5
| Does anyone have any experience with Rhodococcus in foals? |
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| Friends of mine have. The cause was stipulated to be that mares
were brought in from pasture and foaled out in a dust filled dry lot.
This is where foal contracted the disease before their colostrum
antibodies kicked in.
They also found out some of the treatment meds were very dangerous
and could cause death when the amount given was too large.
This bacteria is bad news since it forms a protective layer around the
lung abscess and most meds cannot penetrate the barrier.
Treatments were expensive and the foals were giving it to the next
one born thru their poop in the dry lot. They evaluated the value of
each foal and their disease progress which decided which ones to
treat. They also turned mares and babies out to "clean" grassy
pastures while treating and away from any dusty situations.
The survival rate of R equi pneumonia is ~70%–90% with
appropriate therapy. The case fatality rate without therapy
(or with inappropriate antimicrobial therapy) is ~80%.
Parameters for discontinuation of medical therapy include
clinical signs, serum fibrinogen concentration, and
radiographic resolution of pulmonary consolidation
and abscessation. Life-threatening, antibiotic-induced
enterocolitis, due to Clostridium difficile, has been seen
in the dams of nursing foals treated with all macrolide preparations.
This is a very good link also with a video of the abscesses in a foals lungs..
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/respiratory-system/respiratory-diseas...
GOOD LUCK ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2017-08-04 12:23 PM
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Member
Posts: 5
| The foal was born at a breed & foaling facility and were charged a foal out fee. It also stayed there at that location for 14 days.
My next question, would or should that facility held responsible? |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
 
Location: Texas | No ones going to get held responsible for picking up rhodococcus at a breeding farm because that is an inherent risk of any large breeding farm or vet clinic or person's house who has any broodmares foaling out. Any time you have mares in one spot foaling out, it is possible for a foal to contract it.
Mares shed R. equi in their manure and it lives in the environment for a long time. You can't get rid of it from the environment and despite the best husbandry practices and disinfectant measures babies will pick up rhodococcus from time to time. It's a huge economic problem for large breeding farms as it can cause massive foal deaths. Theres no vaccine for it either.
Foals are exposed to R. equi at birth or within a first few days of life, but clinical signs usually don't show up until they are between 2-4 months old.
What farms tend to do that have an outbreak or know they have problems with it from year to year is give hyperimmunized plasma to all the foals within 12-24 hours of birth in addition to checking IgG levels to make sure they don't also have failure of passive transfer. It's also suggested to scan foal chests every couple of weeks through weaning as a means of surveillance to help identify infected foals prior to them becoming clinically ill. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | s552 - 2017-08-04 12:55 PM The foal was born at a breed & foaling facility and were charged a foal out fee. It also stayed there at that location for 14 days. My next question, would or should that facility held responsible?
Yes. No excuse for that. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 965
Location: In the back forty | Yes! |
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Member
Posts: 5
| Really I have 3 with. All born at the same place.
1st. Stayed 6 weeks. Brought home & was an only foal for 4 weeks
2nd Stayed for 2 weeks
3rd Stayed for 8 days.
All have it. No other babies have ever been born at my location for 15 years that I can varify.
New barn & stalls that may have had 2 other horses in them in past. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 965
Location: In the back forty | Edited to add the following is in reply to CasualDust07's post:
It seems that the reasoning here doesn't take into account that the place has an obligation therefore to inform prospective clients of the possibility of this problem, if indeed they themselves are aware of that possibility--and knowing that many customers may be new to this type of breeding/foaling arrangement. If they did not inform the prospective client then they are criminally negligent it would seem.
Edited by ma77_1 2017-08-04 4:46 PM
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| Stud farms are just like vet clinic's /// high traffic of horses
that are sick or have a little different mutation of various
diseases that will jump on healthy horses or ones stressed
a little bit. If possible I try to get my horses vetted outside
by the trailer. No amount of cleaning or sanitizing can beat
the killing rays of the sun for any type of germs, bacteria or
viruses. This is why I try to keep sick horses where they
can go outside or in the pasture ... same with contaminated
tack, buckets etc etc ... get a bath and lots of sun to dry them out!!
On Rhodococcus ... all of your vets cow, horses, goats, sheep
all agree it is in the soil and if dusty animals will inhale and
if immune system is low can catch it or various other
soil borne diseases.
Did the vets actually identify the weird shape of the actual
cell structure or are they flying by the seat of their pants??
Coccidiosis is more common and has the same symptoms
in young or older horses ... this is caused by bird poop in
the pasture or in the water tank.
Mention this to your vets.
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Member
Posts: 5
| Blood sample was sent off to lab and was confirmed several days later confirming it was Rhodococcus. |
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 Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2411
Location: Wisconsin | We had one born at a breeding facility, and once in the ground, its there. Ours contracted it, caught early, treated for 30 days. Pasted 2 times a day with the antibiotic that was given to us from the Vet from the breeding facil. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| s552 - 2017-08-04 12:55 PM
The foal was born at a breed & foaling facility and were charged a foal out fee. It also stayed there at that location for 14 days.
My next question, would or should that facility held responsible?
How many other foals developed it? Was yours the first?
If you sue, chances are you will be foaling out your own horses from now on. People talk.
I would chalk it up to fluke and lesson learned. |
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Member
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| Because people talk is why NO ONE know who THEY are are even who I am...
Its a shame that you have to do that.
Lesson learned? Really?
I have 3 babies that are sick and 1 will probably die as a result of this. All are by one of the biggest name brand stallion around. Just in 1 stud fee, shipping, vet, and recipt, I have 13,000 + in each before the embro was 30 days old. Then add a year of feed, foal out fee and now this vet bill on top. Just to loose the baby on something that they contracted on their watch.
What Lesson was to be learned from this?
I have not contacted them.
Also, I know that it is their lively hood is at stake and I would not want to jeopardise that by giving their name or location out. That's just the kind of person I am.
PLUS... I have 3 recipt mares that are scheduled to go back in October and I don't want to make them mad and not accept them back for a refund.
As far as going back to them again... There is closer places available to do my breeding & flushing and we will opt for that option.
I'm just seeking advise on how to handle this situation.
Edited by s552 2017-08-05 12:38 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| s552 - 2017-08-05 12:32 PM
Because people talk is why NO ONE know who THEY are are even who I am...
Its a shame that you have to do that.
Lesson learned? Really?
I have 3 babies that are sick and 1 will probably die as a result of this. All are by one of the biggest name brand stallion around. Just in 1 stud fee, shipping, vet, and recipt, I have 13,000 + in each before the embro was 30 days old. Then add a year of feed, foal out fee and now this vet bill on top. Just to loose the baby on something that they contracted on their watch.
What Lesson was to be learned from this?
I have not contacted them.
Also, I know that it is their lively hood is at stake and I would not want to jeopardise that by giving their name or location out. That's just the kind of person I am.
PLUS... I have 3 recipt mares that are scheduled to go back in October and I don't want to make them mad and not accept them back for a refund.
As far as going back to them again... There is closer places available to do my breeding & flushing and we will opt for that option.
I'm just seeking advise on how to handle this situation.
If your horses are the only ones that developed the illness, then one if not all of your mares could be carriers.
People can use the latest and greatest antiseptic, hygienic practices and animals even humans can still fall victim to an infection.
I know people who carry insurance on the embryos, and as soon as they hit the ground have insurance on these little ones, one thing to research for next time.
As for what to do.
You have two options, demand they pay for all the costs, and not have any dealings with them again, and also risk they will be telling their friends in the same business and you may be black balled.
You don't confront them, learn from the experience. Talk with your vet, as possible transmission, was the mare a carrier, what could be done to prevent this, would igg at birth have helped, and plan for the next year.
Sadly in this instance what happened is done, and nothing you do now can change that you have 3 sick babies.
Also did you read your contact closely? There may be a clause in there about no liability if the foal develops an infection while in their care.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2017-08-05 1:09 PM
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A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2017-08-05 11:48 AM s552 - 2017-08-04 12:55 PM The foal was born at a breed & foaling facility and were charged a foal out fee. It also stayed there at that location for 14 days. My next question, would or should that facility held responsible? How many other foals developed it? Was yours the first? If you sue, chances are you will be foaling out your own horses from now on. People talk. I would chalk it up to fluke and lesson learned.
Really? Why are you the self appointed expert on everything? Do you live in the US? Have you passed the Bar? Are you a vet?
If these were my horses, I'd be livid, and I wouldn't care who they told or talked to. There is something known as "standard of care." If a facility offers a service, they should provide at least the reasonable standard of care for facilities in that area, and contracting rhodococcus there does not meet that standard. They should at least warn their clients that rhodococcus is present and a risk.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 965
Location: In the back forty | Fun2Run - 2017-08-07 7:36 PM cheryl makofka - 2017-08-05 11:48 AM s552 - 2017-08-04 12:55 PM The foal was born at a breed & foaling facility and were charged a foal out fee. It also stayed there at that location for 14 days. My next question, would or should that facility held responsible? How many other foals developed it? Was yours the first? If you sue, chances are you will be foaling out your own horses from now on. People talk. I would chalk it up to fluke and lesson learned.
If these were my horses, I'd be livid, and I wouldn't care who they told or talked to. There is something known as "standard of care." If a facility offers a service, they should provide at least the reasonable standard of care for facilities in that area, and contracting rhodococcus there does not meet that standard. They should at least warn their clients that rhodococcus is present and a risk.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This! Standard of Care and Facility Responsibility -- no one should have to be afraid of any of "the Big Guys"
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