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 Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
  
| From someone with a permanently "damaged" EPM horse who passed the tail test and looked great and saw 4 vets who didn't diagnose.... either just treat or get to a vet who knows what a proper neurological exam is ASAP. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin | Dodge 629, If you don't mind sharing, can you tell us what your horse was doing, how long before you started treatment and what was the lasting damage. Our mare, looked great and moves fine at the walk and trot. Thank you. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
 
| I'm very confused with some of the comments on this post. EPM is a neurological issue, attacks the nervous system, which causes the uncoordinated movements, lose of feeling, muscle atrophy, along with other neuro effects. A horse that is experiencing pain wouldn't scream EPM to me at first. Yes they get sore, but usually from over compensating from the lack of feeling somewhere else. If lameness is the only thing happening, no neurological symptoms, I would be looking for other reasons first. Just crossing one's legs wouldn't make me suspect EPM either, it would be a combination of unexplainable symptoms. The stumbling is usually consistent, they don't usually stumble once and then never again.
I have treated two horses for EPM. One I went and had a muscle biopsy done to confirm. He had visible muscle atrophy and stumbling in the hind end. When running a pin over the left side he had very little reaction to none.
The other, came off the track, had been treated before for it and I kind of did a blind faith with the treatment. He was loosing weight rapidly, been treated for Ulcers, drooping of the right side of his face. Once I treated he improved.
I feel like EPM has become a catch all. Yes, its very common, but I think we sometimes rush to EPM way to quickly.
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Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
| FlyingJT - 2018-01-24 12:18 PM I'm very confused with some of the comments on this post. EPM is a neurological issue, attacks the nervous system, which causes the uncoordinated movements, lose of feeling, muscle atrophy, along with other neuro effects. A horse that is experiencing pain wouldn't scream EPM to me at first. Yes they get sore, but usually from over compensating from the lack of feeling somewhere else. If lameness is the only thing happening, no neurological symptoms, I would be looking for other reasons first. Just crossing one's legs wouldn't make me suspect EPM either, it would be a combination of unexplainable symptoms. The stumbling is usually consistent, they don't usually stumble once and then never again. I have treated two horses for EPM. One I went and had a muscle biopsy done to confirm. He had visible muscle atrophy and stumbling in the hind end. When running a pin over the left side he had very little reaction to none. The other, came off the track, had been treated before for it and I kind of did a blind faith with the treatment. He was loosing weight rapidly, been treated for Ulcers, drooping of the right side of his face. Once I treated he improved. I feel like EPM has become a catch all. Yes, its very common, but I think we sometimes rush to EPM way to quickly.
My gelding's neuro symptoms were so miniscule to start with that it went unnoticed. His first and largest sign ever shown was tension through his lower back. He never stumbled, never crossed his legs.. he was not typical. It was nearly a year of vets before someone did an in-depth neuro exam, which he did fail but not in a gigantic way. The reason to rush is because the damage can be irreversible, as my horses is. I would have much rather took a leap of faith and treated a year earlier if it would have prevented the damage to him. | |
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Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
| pepsi - 2018-01-24 12:06 PM Dodge 629, If you don't mind sharing, can you tell us what your horse was doing, how long before you started treatment and what was the lasting damage. Our mare, looked great and moves fine at the walk and trot. Thank you.
He was tense through his lower back, just gradually getting worse despite chiro, accupuncture, etc. He started looking "roach backed".. went through saddle fit, pelvis issues, all the usual suspects.. vets said it may take time, did exercises, therapy, BOT blanket, etc. Then it went to laziness, unwillingness to work. His right hind leg is effected. It was hard to see until now when I know what I'm looking at. Most noticeable when you back him from the ground and watch the path of his hindlegs... he has never ever backed straight and that's why. It's also noticeable at a lope on a circle, that leg will gradually fall off cadence and every now and then, there's a skip where he has to "catch up" with it. It was over a year before he was diagnosed and treated. Within a couple of weeks, the tension fell out of his back. And he quit beating up my other horses (another symptom.. aggression!). | |
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Veteran
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin | Dodge629 - 2018-01-24 1:39 PM pepsi - 2018-01-24 12:06 PM Dodge 629, If you don't mind sharing, can you tell us what your horse was doing, how long before you started treatment and what was the lasting damage. Our mare, looked great and moves fine at the walk and trot. Thank you. He was tense through his lower back, just gradually getting worse despite chiro, accupuncture, etc. He started looking "roach backed".. went through saddle fit, pelvis issues, all the usual suspects.. vets said it may take time, did exercises, therapy, BOT blanket, etc. Then it went to laziness, unwillingness to work. His right hind leg is effected. It was hard to see until now when I know what I'm looking at. Most noticeable when you back him from the ground and watch the path of his hindlegs... he has never ever backed straight and that's why. It's also noticeable at a lope on a circle, that leg will gradually fall off cadence and every now and then, there's a skip where he has to "catch up" with it. It was over a year before he was diagnosed and treated. Within a couple of weeks, the tension fell out of his back. And he quit beating up my other horses (another symptom.. aggression!).
Thank you for sharing. I agree with your advise. If you think there is any chance that it may be EPM, get them tested. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | FlyingJT - 2018-01-24 1:18 PM
I'm very confused with some of the comments on this post. EPM is a neurological issue, attacks the nervous system, which causes the uncoordinated movements, lose of feeling, muscle atrophy, along with other neuro effects. A horse that is experiencing pain wouldn't scream EPM to me at first. Yes they get sore, but usually from over compensating from the lack of feeling somewhere else. If lameness is the only thing happening, no neurological symptoms, I would be looking for other reasons first. Just crossing one's legs wouldn't make me suspect EPM either, it would be a combination of unexplainable symptoms. The stumbling is usually consistent, they don't usually stumble once and then never again.
I have treated two horses for EPM. One I went and had a muscle biopsy done to confirm. He had visible muscle atrophy and stumbling in the hind end. When running a pin over the left side he had very little reaction to none.
The other, came off the track, had been treated before for it and I kind of did a blind faith with the treatment. He was loosing weight rapidly, been treated for Ulcers, drooping of the right side of his face. Once I treated he improved.
I feel like EPM has become a catch all. Yes, its very common, but I think we sometimes rush to EPM way to quickly.
“I feel like EPM has become a catch-all”
I sense the same thing....kinda like “navicular”.
When our colt was at his worst with neurological symptoms, we had a real good vet come out and examine him, methodically. He started some empirical treatment right away and also drew blood for WNV, etc... His working diagnosis was “rule out EPM”. We thought we were going to lose him.
It turned out he had WNV, and he recovered remarkably quickly.
In my opinion, this is not something where I want to shoot from the hip without a proper evaluation. I don’t want to take shortcuts.
Yes, you might end up treating empirically, but I think it’s a good idea to just do it right. | |
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